Hello Jerry.

I didn't read the site as thoroughly as you did so thanks for the heads up. However, if I find a good discussion of a particular issue I'll take it on its own merits even if it's in a theological camp I disagree with. As a matter of fact I haven't yet found a theological camp I completely agree with. I don't hold to a strict end times position although I am a futurist and I do believe we're right on the edge of major fulfillment of end times prophecy. I am not completely convinced of the pretrib Rapture viewpoint, I simply consider it a possibility. But I do consider myself a Calvinist so that wouldn't be a problem with that site for me anyway.

That's very interesting. Yes! You just reminded me that the worst effect of the supernatural experiences I've had is that they've scared me away from extensive prayer, especially prayer and fasting, and I've had to work to overcome that effect, because I've been afraid some sort of command will be given that I won't fully understand or be able to judge if it's from the Lord or not. That turmoil in itself is no doubt a clue that ALL those things were NEVER from the Lord. Yes, some of it seemed to define a calling for me, but nothing I could ever figure out how to live up to. It would be a great relief to be able to know for certain it was all fake.

No, of course not. Certainly that vision I had before I was saved I knew wasn't from the Lord, it was like a puzzle I got obsessed with solving, a threatening sort of puzzle rather than a calling, threatening death it seemed, to whom was not clear. I'd worry, Is that number a date or a time of day or what does it mean? If the date was looming I'd worry. (Before I was saved I had been involved in some occult practices for two or three years, so there's plenty of reason for me to have demonic activity in my life at that time, and some experiences during that period were quite frightening.)

He does that with me too, so I can trust those experiences.

And thank YOU too for reporting that experience. I'd thought I was all alone with this sort of thing but hearing from others that I'm not is very reassuring. That voice that said the name of the woman to pray for was also very loud, would have been painfully loud if it had been a real voice outside of me. But I knew it was inside, and it had a strange hollow echoing effect. The other voice wasn't loud but sounded weirdly like the voice of the "chipmunk song" if you know what I mean. I had no doubt these were demonic even at the time. It was that voice-that-wasn't-a-voice but almost a writing in the region of my heart that I've had doubts about for years. That voice corrected me mildly about a few things, about not fully fasting when I'd started to fast a couple of times for instance. "Are you fasting?" was the whole message on one occasion. It seemed that one had to be the Lord, but as I said there was also no fruit from it. Just another "unfruitful work of darkness?"

[Aside: This all reminds me that Scott Johnson who has an ongoing series on end times phenomena, false teachers, the charismatic movement and related things at Sermon Audio, has given a teaching on "Maitreya" a demon-possessed man he believes could be the coming Antichrist (with the Pope the False Prophet perhaps), and he believes that this person plans to communicate by telepathy into the heads of all humanity when he comes, to convince them that he's "The Christ" (The New Age Christ). Whether he could do this by telepathy or by having billions of demons set up to speak into billions of heads is a question but either way I guess it's possible, just gives me the willies to think of it. Johnson's teachings can be over the top, especially when he gets into major conspiracy theories, and his manner can be a tad abrasive too, but he knows his scripture and he does his homework and I've learned quite a bit from him.]

Yes, bore no fruit, caused uncertainty. All this is helping me so much. These really are important criteria for recognizing the works of the devil that otherwise are so confusing.

One thing that has made all this hard to sort out is the idea that if you are really saved and really have the Holy Spirit the demons cannot do such things to you. So for long periods I've worried that maybe I'm not really saved, though I've done everything and believed everything that should show that I am. If these things did not make you question your salvation you must have had a stronger grounding than I have had. But I suppose getting me to doubt my salvation is one of the objectives of such demonic communications anyway, a form of bad fruit.

Yes, that is probably his objective too, isn't it? When you have a strong personal experience it is very hard to convince yourself it should be rejected as not from the Lord. At least that has been the case with me. I'm impressed that you have had the spiritual strength to overcome these things, apparently so much easier than I.

Well, you are helping me now get over my own anxieties and wonderings about the meanings of such experiences. Finding the right scripture to apply to these things isn't easy, especially when there are so many rival interpretations of various verses.

Yes, but I did say in that case I knew immediately that was a demon and not the Lord, and the chipmunky voice I also knew wasn't God just because of the ridiculous tone of it, even before I was a Christian (I HAD come to believe in God, even the God of the Bible, but I had not yet understood who Jesus Christ was at that time.) The question NOW becomes why would a demon do something that loud and obvious and ridiculous? Perhaps to get me to accept that OTHER milder and more temperate "voice" that was more like a writing that seemed to be appropriately addressed to my real situation? Perhaps these are trial runs for "Maitreya's" debut?

It's hard to avoid allowing footholds when you are confused about what's true and what's false. I know I'm not "possessed" in the sense of controlled by them, I possess my own mind (well, I do get distracted easily and my thoughts get muddied when I'm trying to pray and read scripture... ) but I haven't yet seen anything in scripture that proves to me they can't occupy a human body even of a believer.

(I think I'm going to order the Swordsearcher program after all. It makes it easy to look up scriptures when they come up). I'm SO grateful to hear someone confess to such experiences, thank you so much. I have a friend who experienced a frightening evil presence in her bedroom at the beginning of her salvation out of Catholicism, but it didn't make a noise. I had some very scary experiences during that period of my occultic dabbling before becoming a believer. The 23rd psalm, which was about all I could remember from my childhood churchgoing, and some lines from the Lord's Prayer, was what got me through that time. I've been aware of presences at many other times that have not manifested in any particular way since becoming a believer. Just remembered another time though: Once while visiting some charismatic Christians out of town something tried to strangle me in my bed --I pled the blood of Jesus Christ and it stopped. I need to learn spiritual warfare much better, though, how to wield the word on such occasions.

Thanks partly to Scott Johnson's teachings, I'm anticipating demonic activity to a frightening extent in the near future. What I worry about the most is the unsaved people in my family, although I know I myself need much better preparation in scripture for such a time -- if of course the church is going to go through it.

But an audible voice INSIDE your head that nobody else can hear? Can he do that from outside your head?

Does He write things across your heart region? I'm now pretty much convinced that wasn't the Lord either though. Bit by bit I'm ridding myself of all those old experiences I've wondered about for so long.

I hope the Lord will lead me to that same certainty you have.

Thank you. I think I can rest in that one and others like it.

Does help, a lot. Appreciate it very much. Sorry to go on at such length -- now it will be even harder to get through this thread -- but I'm SO happy to get to discuss these things with people.