Thread: The sons of God
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Old 06-01-2009, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybones2112 View Post
Sister, I am not trying to be argumentative, that is the venue of the FFF forum. I remembered something when I was researching the Two Witnesses thread and Enoch and what an important similitude, like-figure Enoch is. My point is, on the sons of God of Genesis 6, as soon as I can see a similitude to them, or them pointing to something else as a similitude, then my position might change. I don't expect it to due to this sin-nature precept, but with God all things are possible.

Genesis 3:15 is taken and streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetched a light year to prove Cain was the product of sexual union between Eve and Satan. This provides a convenient foundation for racist bigotry against, well, what ever race a given proponent of this false doctrine may have, most notably blacks. This is part of the "christian occultism" thing we have discussed, and occultic practices manifest in the Church age you and I have a slight disagreement on. I'm not saying you beleive this particularly, I'm just saying others include it in their doctrines and intepretations, along with ghosts, demons, and possessions.

Specifically, Genesis 3:15 does not teach a race of half-Satan/half human entities, but Jesus Christ clears it up here. I included the whole passage top preserve context:

John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Yea, hath God said? Christ was born of one seed, the seed of the woman of Genesis 3:15, the liars who deny Christ, His work, His Deity, His position as Messiah to Israel and Savior of the whole world, all liars are of the "seed" of Satan.

I'll continue to address this question with you as much as you want or need. I'm sorry I cut Kevin short in the other thread but I am not repeating myself on the heresy of Christ having a sin-nature. I replied and gave Scripture for my position, it was not good enough, and I'm not going around and around about it.

Grace and peace sister

Tony
Quote:
Genesis 3:15 is taken and streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetched a light year to prove Cain was the product of sexual union between Eve and Satan. This provides a convenient foundation for racist bigotry against, well, what ever race a given proponent of this false doctrine may have, most notably blacks. This is part of the "christian occultism" thing we have discussed, and occultic practices manifest in the Church age you and I have a slight disagreement on. I'm not saying you beleive this particularly, I'm just saying others include it in their doctrines and intepretations, along with ghosts, demons, and possessions.

Specifically, Genesis 3:15 does not teach a race of half-Satan/half human entities, but Jesus Christ clears it up here.
Tony,
let me establish that I believe Gen 3:15 refers ultimately to the serpent's seed as the anti-christ and the woman's seed as Christ. Do you really think I am an occultist after my 100 or so posts on this board? Is that your position? Was there anything in my question that led you to suspect this or are you painting with too broad a brush? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.

Quote:
Sister, I am not trying to be argumentative, that is the venue of the FFF forum. I remembered something when I was researching the Two Witnesses thread and Enoch and what an important similitude, like-figure Enoch is. My point is, on the sons of God of Genesis 6, as soon as I can see a similitude to them, or them pointing to something else as a similitude, then my position might change. I don't expect it to due to this sin-nature precept, but with God all things are possible.
I understand the need to see how the Son's of God in Gen 6 being fallen angels mating with human women could have any place in God's plan; and that you would need an answer to the sin nature question before that.

For arguments sake can we assume for a few moments that the nephilim are the offspring of fallen angels. I've wondered in the past why the nephilim couldn't be saved since they were half-human. Surely this wasn't your intent but you may have helped me with that question. I see merit in your view that our sin nature comes down through the father. If we apply this same principle to the giants, we can see they wouldn't be born with a human sin nature but with a sin nature passed on from a fallen angel. I think a sin nature is an inherited thing so fallen angels wouldn't have it but would their offspring inherit a sin nature? The nephilim would have inherited not a human sin nature but a fallen angelic sin nature. In my view, Gen 6, as well passages dealing with Israel wiping out the giants, portray them as an entirely different kind of evil from what came before or after. Christ died for human sinners with adam's sin nature. He didn't die for offspring of fallen angels with a sin nature inherited from their fathers the fallen angels. There is no propitiation for sins for them just like there is none for their fathers the fallen angels. God found it necessary to wipe them from the face of the earth first by flood and second through Israel.

As far as a similitude for the son's of God fathering the giants like I believe Enoch is a type of the church, the only one I can come up with is the beast of rev 13 which I'm sure is no revelation to you. Rather than requiring that fallen angels mating with human women producing the giants as offspring be a type of something, I would rather try to put it in a broader context.

Gen 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
Satan got his first hint that God's plan to redeem man somehow involved lineage so he plotted to destroy the messianic line throughout history. I believe what is related to us in Gen 6 is Satan's first attempt to do so. He managed to corrupt all flesh on earth through his fallen angels mating with women. Only Noah was perfect in his geneology.

6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Another thought I had was that there were ever only males in the angelic order. What makes a male a male? It is an interesting question. I can only speculate that all of the angels were amazed when God formed woman out of Adam's rib. No one had ever seen a woman before. Isn't it possible that fallen angels would begin to lust after woman that God had made for man?

Your sister in Christ,

Jennifer

Last edited by greenbear; 06-01-2009 at 12:21 AM.