View Single Post
  #80  
Old 10-18-2008, 03:07 PM
JMWHALEN JMWHALEN is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
It is very strange! Everyone that doesn't believe that the King James Bible is the Inspired, Holy, Infallible word of God always use the same "lame" arguments. :confused:

Just for the record, and to repeat what has already been said [Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15; Amos 3:12; Matthew 18:16; 2Corinthians 13:1] None of us who profess to believe in and trust in the King James Bible as being God's perfect word , and without error {that is: Inspired, Holy, and Infallible) have NEVER claimed "inspiration" for the translators! :( NOT ONCE! :eek: EVER! :mad:

We believe that the WORDS ARE INSPIRED and that GOD HAS PRESERVED HIS WORDS - just exactly as He promised in Psalm 12:6-7.

This issue is about "FINAL AUTHORITY"! :( It is now, and has always been about "FINAL AUTHORITY"!

Since PB1789 has come on to this Forum he has demonstrated (over & over again) that his "Final Authority" is his own "Humanistic Opinion" in all matters of faith and practice. But the "Icing on the Cake" is his lame attempt to twist and wrest our words ("nit-pickers") in regards to "inspiration"! :confused:

The record is clear. Many of us have stated it. And any attempt on the part of PB1789 to twist it any further will only prove just how disingenuous he really is! :eek: {And that is the major reason that I have "ignored" him and his Posts from early on.} :p
_______-

George "...hast spoken well...(Ex. 10:29- a "play on words" here-see below written vs. spoken).

I post an excellent article(in my "opinion") written by a brother named Moses LemuelRaj. I hope I have not misquoted him(left anything out?):


Before I proceed to explain what is meant by "All scripture is GIVEN by INSPIRATION of God," let us lay some foundation:

1. Scripture(s) means WRITTEN word of God (Deut 28:58; Ps 40:7; Ecc 12:10; Hosea 8:13; John 5:47; Rev 22:19). That is the plain meaning of the English word. Scribe, script, scripture, scribble, etc., are those words have to do with WRITTEN stuff.

2. All WRITTEN stuff is NOT Scripture (Eg. "book of Jasher" Josh 10:13; 2 Sam 1:18). But ALL "Scripture" is WRITTEN.

3. These WRITTEN Scriptures are called the "WORD of God." We read about the "WORD of the LORD ...that is WRITTEN in this BOOK" (2 Chr 34:21; also see John 10:35).

4. The WRITTEN Scriptures are also called as God's "WORDS" (plural). "Therefore go thou, and read in the roll, which thou hast WRITTEN from my mouth, the WORDS of the LORD in the ears of the people" (Jeremiah 36:6).
5. Many of these WRITTEN Scriptures were SPOKEN before they were WRITTEN. "Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, WRITE thee all the WORDS that I have SPOKEN unto thee in a BOOK" (Jer 30:2). Here the Lord Himself SPOKE. Some times, His prohets spoke. "Holy MEN of God SPAKE as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost" (2 Pet 1:21). David says, "The SPIRIT of the LORD SPAKE BY ME, and his word was in my tongue" (2 Sam 23:2).
6. Some times the "holy men of God" who SPOKE, did not WRITE it down themselves. Some one else did it. "BARUCH WROTE from the mouth of Jeremiah all the WORDS of the LORD" (Jer 36:4). "I Tertius, who WROTE this epistle, salute you in the Lord" (Rom 16:22). The epistle to Romans was written by apostle Paul (Rom 1:1).

7. All that is SPOKEN is not necessarily WRITTEN (Rev 10:4), and all that is WRITTEN, may not have been SPOKEN, but written directly (1 Cor 16:21; 2 Thess 3:17).

8. The Bible says, "All SCRIPTURE is GIVEN by INSPIRATION of God" (2 Tim 3:16). ALL that is "Scripture," is GIVEN by God. We are talking about the WRITTEN word of God, and the WORDS of God. Genesis to Revelation is Scripture. The 66 books are Scripture. They are GIVEN by God. And He gave it "by INSPIRATION of God." We will soon look into what is INSPIRATION.

9. "The Lord GAVE the word: great was the company of those that PUBLISHED it" (Psalm 68:11). The Lord Jesus Christ said, "For I have GIVEN unto them the WORDS [plural, words] which THOU GAVEST me; and they have RECEIVED them, and have KNOWN SURELY that I came out from thee, and they have BELIEVED that thou didst send me" (John 17:8).

10. Unless the SPOKEN words of the Lord are WRITTEN down, people in the later generations cannot KEEP the words of Christ. "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will KEEP my WORDS: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him" (John 14:23). In Rev 3:10, they "KEPT the WORD."

11. God has PROMISED to PRESERVE His WORDS (Ps 12:6-7; 1 Pet 1:23,25; Mat 24:35). "But the word of the Lord ENDURETH FOR EVER. And THIS IS THE WORD which by the GOSPEL is preached unto you" (1 Pet 1:25). "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him" (Ecc 3:14).

12. The Scriptures are HOLY (Rom 1:2), and they are TRUTH (Dan 10:21). "EVERY word of God is PURE ... Add THOU not unto HIS WORDS" (Prov 30:5). "Thy word is VERY PURE: therefore thy servant loveth it" (Ps 119:140). "For the word of the LORD is RIGHT; and ALL HIS WORKS are done in TRUTH" (Ps 33:4).

Scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God
==================================
1. Let us make it plain that the Bible DOES NOT say anywhere that any MAN is INSPIRED. Moses, Paul, John, Jeremiah and others WROTE the Scriptues, or some one else wrote when they SPOKE. But the MEN who wrote are NOT inspired. It is the SCRIPTURES that are given by INSPIRATION (2 Tim 3:16). The "holy men of God SPAKE as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost" (2 Pet 1:21).

2. Let us define INSPIRATION using the Scriptures. "But there is a SPIRIT in man: and the INSPIRATION of the Almighty giveth them understanding" (Job 32:8). That is the "spirit" in a man. He got it by the process of INSPIRATION. Inspiration is a PROCESS wherein God breathes IN the SPIRIT (BREATH) into something/someone, and the result is LIFE. "All the while my BREATH is in me, and the SPIRIT of God is in my NOSTRILS" (Job 27:3). You see there the Scriptures use the word SPIRIT instead of the word BREATH - "the SPIRIT of God is in my NOSTRILS."

3. First case of INSPIRATION - "And the LORD God FORMED man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED INTO his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE; and man became a LIVING soul" (Gen 2:7). Adam was FORMED from the dust. But he did not start living until the Lord breathed INTO him. The Lord did not make Adam by ASSEMBLING living cells. A complete, FORMED body in a lifeless condition, was made living by God BREATHING INTO him. Inspiration is God breathing INTO something the "BREATH (a.k.a SPIRIT, Job 27:3) of life." The resulting product will be LIVING!!! That is "INSPIRATION" as defined by the Scriptures.
cont'd...

5. Inspiration explained by the Lord Jesus - "It is the SPIRIT that QUICKENETH; the flesh profiteth nothing: the WORDS that I SPEAK unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE" (John 6:63). The SPOKEN words of the Lord are SPIRIT, they are LIFE. Because they contain the BREATH of the Lord. But they are WRITTEN (read John 6), and preserved for us.

6. "Knowing this first, that no PROPHECY of the SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation. For the PROPHECY came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God SPAKE as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost" (2 Pet 1:20-21). It does not say "For the SCRIPTURE came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God WROTE as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost." Please notice, the Holy Ghost MOVED some men, and they SPAKE, and the result was PROPHECY. These are the ORIGINAL SPOKEN WORDS. They are LIFE, they are SPIRIT (as in John 6). But 2 Pet 1 is NOT talking about how the SCRIPTURE came. It talks about how the SPOKEN prophecy came. 2 Peter 1 talks NOTHING about the SCRIPTURES. No ORIGINAL WRITTEN words are in the context of 2 Pet 1.

7. But the ORIGINAL SPOKEN words are WRITTEN down. The Lord instructed to make COPIES (Deut 17:18; Josh 8:32). Jeremiah WROTE down his own ORIGINAL SPOKEN words after many years (Jer 36:2). So he dictated, and Baruch wrote them (verse 4). Later, that ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPH was cut by a pen knife and burnt by Jehudi (verse 23). The Lord later made Baruch write it again in verse 32. Later on, all the prophesies againt Babylon that were written in a book, were tied to a stone, and CAST IN THE MIDST OF RIVER EUPHRATES (Jer 51:59-64). There is NO RECORD of them written again in the book of Jeremiah, or elsewhere in the Bible. Then HOW COME you and me have the WRITTEN record of all the prophesies againt Baylon? They are "GIVEN by INSPIRATION of God" to us. Remember Ezek 37?

Conclusion: INSPIRATION is God breathing the SPIRIT INTO something, therby making it LIVING. Scripture is WRITTEN word of God, and WRITTEN WORDS of God. Whether in ORIGINAL, or in a copied COPY, or in a miraculously restored COPY, the SCRIPTURE - meaning the WRITTEN WORDS of God are "GIVEN BY INSPIRATION." They have the breath of God in them. 2 Tim 3:16-17 talks NOTHING about the ORIGINAL SPOKEN words, or ORIGINAL WRITTEN words, It talks about SCRIPTURE. And SCRIPTURE is some thing which the Lord Jesus commanded us to READ and SEARCH. The Bereans SEARCHED them. Timothy HAD them. They are PROFITABLE. "Scriptures" are not some non-existing non-available invisible ORIGINAL AUTOGRAPHS. God gave us the Scriptures. The OT in Hebrew, and the NT in Greek. The NT contains TRANSLATIONS of OT Scripture. God had said in Isaiah that He will speak in "ANOTHER tongue (Isa 27), and so God's word was spoken in VARIOUS tongues. Irrespective of what language it is in, Scripture is Scripture.

The AUTHENTIC MASTER COPY of the Scriptures was with the Levites. The king "shall write him a copy of this law in a book OUT OF THAT which is before the PRIESTS the LEVITES" (Deut 17:18). God's people are the STEWARDS of the TEXT of the Scriptures. The manner of TRANSMISSION of any truth of God is like this - "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received" (1 Cor 15:3; see also 1 Cor 11:23; 2 Tim 2:2). Faithful men DELIVERING what is RECEIVED from other faithful men. God has PRESERVED His words (Ps 12:6-7). The RECEIVED TEXT of the Scriptures is scattered in the Hebrew Masoretic Text, and the Greek Textus Receptus. God gave many gifts for the edification of the Church (Eph 4, 1 Cor 12), but He did not ordain one single GREEK or HEBREW PROFESSOR or SCHOLAR sitting in a theological college to determine the "WORDS OF THE SCRIPTURE AS CLOSELY TO THE ORIGINALS AS POSSIBLE." This is a bunch of nonsense. EDUCATION, and SCHOLARSHIP are NO REQUIREMENT in the MINISTRY of God. If any one quotes Paul, let him realize that Paul counted all his previous previleges as DUNG.

After the dark ages of AD 300 to AD 1500, the Lord was gracious to give us the AUTHORIZED VERSION in 1611, which after its SPELLING updation and correction of PRINTING errors, is preserved to us as it stands in the 1769 edition. The Lord has GREATLY use this version of the Scriptures. NONE of the versions stood the test of TIME. The RV came, and went off. Its tough to find a copy today. The Lord used the British around in the 1600s to go round the globe, and spead the word of God. They took the REFORMATION Bible (the Geneva/King James tradition), with them. Millions of souls were saved. Further, MANY people in this world speak English as second language. This version of the Scriptures was PROFITABLE in the truest sense of the word (2 Tim 3:16). Many TRANSLATIONS of the Scriptures were made from the AV into many languages. This Bible was a FRUITFUL Bible. "For every tree is known by his own fruit" (Luke 6:44). The modern English versions, and the Indian vernaculars come from the Critical Greek text (in the NT). The church has not been a good STEWARD of the Scriptures, nevertheless, the Lord left the AV uncorrupted, and greatly used for His purpose in the last days.

The two common objections to the AV are related to the TEXT, or the TRANSLATION. The AV is translated out of the Original Tongues (not Original Manuscripts), AND with the FORMER TRANSLATIONS (Gothic, Coptic, Old Syriac, Old Latin, Geneva, Great Bible, Bishops Bible etc) diligently compared and revised.

If a TEXTUAL objection comes from the "Greek", my answer would be - you cannot say for sure that the AV translators used the Greek text, or ANY Greek text for that matter, in the passage (word) under consideration. All corrupt Greek texts come from EGYPT, or VATICAN. The Lord said, dont go to Egypt for help (Isa 31:1).

If a TRANSLATION issue come up, my question is - Is the Greek Lexicon, or your "Professor of the Greek" INSPIRED that I should follow the meaning YOU supply, and reject the AV text? Please read the preface of Mr. W.E. Vine's work in the Greek. He says of HIMSELF, that the NEW meaning of the Greek words are figured out from the SECULAR Greek material picked up from the DUMPS and GRAVEYARDS of EGYPT!!!

I believe that the Scriptures as found in the AV is "given by inspiration of God." I believe all the words, and live by them. I will REFUTE all CORRECTIONS suggested to the Scriptures (as in AV) by ANY man, no matter who/what he is. I do not believe there are ANY ERRORS in the AV. The Scriptures (as in the AV) are my FINAL AUTHORITY in the matters of faith and practice. The Lord helped me to be PROFITED by them. And I solely depend on the Lord for its INTERPRETATION (Gen 40:8; 1 Cor 2:14).

Sincerely in Christ,
Moses LemuelRaj
____________-

In Christ,

John M. Whalen