Re: "A contradiction concerning Erasmus being an anabaptist"
DevonR,
An examination of your Posts on this Thread:
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“Firstly, Paul and all of the bible believers changed their ways and walked in the statures of the Lord (they were saved by faith), Erasmus was a confused Catholic that never professed being reborn and most likely died in his works salvation. Am I judging Erasmus really? I am basing an idea the best I can. Only God truly knows if he's saved or not - I never said I truly knew (but him being a Catholic, the CHANCES are low):"
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Firstly, you have conveniently left out some other saints that didn’t “fare as well”:
NOAH: One of the last things that we read about him in the O.T. is - he got drunk!
LOT: The last thing we hear about him in the O.T. is - he got drunk and committed incest!
AARON: Not allowed into the Promised Land because - he failed to obey God’s words!
MOSES: Not allowed into the Promised Land because - he failed to obey God’s words! JEPHTHAH: A Judge of Israel - Sacrificed his daughter over a foolish vow to God.
SAMSON: A fornicating Judge of Israel - who was blinded and ended up a suicide!
SOLOMON: Who wrote 3 Books of the Bible [God Inspired words] - & ended up an Idolater!
JOSIAH: A great King of Israel - ignored God’s commandment and ended up killed in battle.
Not ALL of God’s saints (although saved by God’s Grace) have always been faithful and had “happy endings” in this life! So don’t give us that “hot air” about Erasmus – some of us have lived long enough, as Christians, to see Christians (NOT Apostates or Reprobates) backslide, fail, and sometimes fall into sin and turn away from God. Not all of God’s people are faithful ALL OF THE TIME. Now, that doesn’t excuse sin in our lives, but it should make all of us mighty grateful for God’s mercy, and extremely thankful for His Grace, without which, no man would be saved.
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"And you misunderstood me with the donkey jest, we're ALL donkeys my friend.”
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Speak for yourself – “friend”. I didn’t “misunderstand” anything! According to your “favorite” English Bible: JESTING IS “NOT CONVENIENT”:
Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
So the question arises – what are you doing making fun of a man, whom you know so little about? Hmmm?
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What is “pathetic” are your infantile attempts to prove that the King James Bible has “errors” in it. Just one example from your web sight will suffice (I refuse to spend all of my time dealing with Bible critics & skeptics). The following is from your obnoxious (but “cutesy”) article entitled: “PATCHING UP THE KING JAMES ” (with accompanying “cheesy” picture – you must really think that you are humorous or funny):
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#2 (Exodus 6:20)
And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
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Your infantile comments:
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"The highlighted text is not in the Hebrew manuscripts, it would be adulterous for one to marry their “father’s sister (against the Mosaic Law)."
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WHICH “Hebrew manuscripts” are you referring to? You are aware, aren’t you, that the MOSAIC LAW was NOT in effect until at least 80 years (or more) AFTER Amram married Jochebed! They were MOSES’S PARENTS, after all! DUH!  {I rest my case!}
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“And no, "modernist christians" do not agree with me (you'll have to try better than that), I got all of my doctrines correct (pre-trib rapture, eternal security, saved by faith etc), BUT, soon as I say "the King James is the BEST translation but not perfect," the hyper-King James brigade snaps at me and try refer to books that the JESUIT Texe Marrs praises (figure out why). The original God-breathed scriptures (that King James himself read) are perfect. The KJV was originally a "crutch," that's why it is so easy to see the original Hebrew/Greek words - it was MADE like that for a reason... Furthermore, the preface on the KJV 1611 states that it isn't perfect and there may be errors. Lazy people who don't want to study the original texts force themselves into a shell that become reliant ONLY on the KJV, if you ask any KJV-Onlyist, they will have nowhere else to go, thus, kind of HAVE to say it's perfect, if you get what I mean.”
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“And no, "modernist christians" do not agree with me (you'll have to try better than that), I got all of my doctrines correct (pre-trib rapture, eternal security, saved by faith etc),"
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Can you not read? Have you no discernment? I did NOT say “modernist christians” (the term is an oxymoron) – A “Modernist” is not a Christian, and a genuine (born again) Christian is NOT a “Modernist”! I clearly said: “Most modern day Christians are in complete agreement with you – so you have plenty of company. Of course, since most modern day Christians have no idea WHERE the word of God is (or WHAT it is), and since they have NO “FINAL AUTHORITY” in all matters of faith and practice, it makes it quite easy for us to dismiss whatever they personally believe - since WHATEVER they believe is determined by their personal opinions, suppositions, speculations, or feelings.”
When I was referring to “Most modern day Christian’s” I was NOT referring to “Modernists” (who are apostates & reprobates). I was referring to “most modern day Christians”, that is - genuine, born again children of God (In these “modern days” known as “Evangelicals” or “Fundamentalists”). I try to be real careful with my words – There is a difference between a genuine Christian and an apostate or reprobate “modernist”, and I would never make the mistake of calling a real Christian (regardless of any differences between us) a “modernist”.
I’m glad that you have: “I got all of my doctrines correct (pre-trib rapture, eternal security, saved by faith etc)” – you’re the first Christian in the 50 years that I have been a Christian that has professed that openly (and I guess that you must sincerely believe it).
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“And no, "modernist christians" do not agree with me (you'll have to try better than that), I got all of my doctrines correct (pre-trib rapture, eternal security, saved by faith etc), BUT, soon as I say "the King James is the BEST translation but not perfect," the hyper-King James brigade snaps at me and try refer to books that the JESUIT Texe Marrs praises (figure out why).”
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You didn’t just state: "the King James is the BEST translation but not perfect," – You have said: “the King James DOES have errors” (Your Post #11 this Thread). There’s a huge difference between someone recognizing the King James Bible as the “best translation, but not perfect”, and someone claiming that it has “errors”. The first statement is tolerated by most genuine Bible believers; the second is a direct attack on the Holy words of God. If you cannot (or will not) discern the DIFFERENCE, THAT’S YOUR PROBLEM. It seems that you have a real “problem” with “Discernment” in many areas.
You keep carelessly slinging around your accusations (against Erasmus and David Sorenson) and then bad-mouth us all with another of your cheap “smears” by calling those of us who are genuine Bible believers as – “the hyper-King James brigade”. I guess all hyper-critics of God’s Holy word just “can’t help themselves”! Who on this forum mentioned Texe Marrs? I know of no one on this Forum who recommends or follows Texe Marrs – so what is that all about? Although I have read well over 100 books and various booklets, pamphlets, and articles in regards to the King James Bible “controversy”, I have never read anything from Texe Marrs (once again – faulty judgment on your part).
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“The original God-breathed scriptures (that King James himself read) are perfect. The KJV was originally a "crutch," that's why it is so easy to see the original Hebrew/Greek words - it was MADE like that for a reason... Furthermore, the preface on the KJV 1611 states that it isn't perfect and there may be errors. Lazy people who don't want to study the original texts force themselves into a shell that become reliant ONLY on the KJV, if you ask any KJV-Onlyist, they will have nowhere else to go, thus, kind of HAVE to say it's perfect, if you get what I mean.”
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You wrote about “The original God-breathed scriptures (that King James himself read) are perfect.” Could you tell us which Hebrew Text King James read from? Hmmm? Oh, and while you are at it, WHICH “original God-breathed” Greek Text did he use? Was it Erasmus’s, or Stephanus’s (Robert Estienne), or Beza’s? You are aware that there are minor differences between all of them, aren’t you?
The KJV was originally a "crutch," that's why it is so easy to see the original Hebrew/Greek words - it was MADE like that for a reason ...” I get it now – All of us King James Bible believers (and all of those believers who came before us, who for over 350 years believed it to be the Holy word of God) are CRIPPLES! Our English Bible is just a “CRUTCH” for us to lean on since we don’t have the advantage of being able to read THE HEBREW (which is a language used and spoken by less than 1% of the world’s population) and THE GREEK (“Koine Greek” to be exact – which is a language that is SPOKEN BY NO ONE in the world today, and is only used by a handful of unbelieving “scholars” (scribes) to undermine God’s FINAL WRITTEN AUTHORITY on earth, i.e. The King James Bible.
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”You CANNOT TRANSLATE ANYTHING PERFECTLY. English was NOT a language God created (that removes any notion of divine intervention of the translating - and the present errors make it more obvious), God however did create Hebrew and Greek at the tower of Babel if I'm not mistaken, Greek is very similar to phoenician - so those langauges (and during the time of apostleship) would have had some "divine inspiration."
The KJV translators were simply extremely educated and guided by a King who walked in the ways of the Lord.”
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Bible critics and skeptics are all the same – their minds are so corrupt that they no longer can think straight! God has given to his saints “the spirit of . . . a sound mind” {2Timothy 1:7] - is DevonR’s reasoning sound? When he disparages the King James Bible, because he doesn’t believe that any TRANSLATION IS PERFECT, and consequently can not possibly be God’s Holy word – is this sound reasoning {especially after God has promised to preserve His WORDS}?
Is God “limited” to just two languages (one, which is used by less than 1% of the world’s population, and the other, which is DEAD – which no one speaks)? Is DevonR serious? Does God require all people everywhere, to learn just these two languages in order to understand His word? I trow not!
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”You CANNOT TRANSLATE ANYTHING PERFECTLY.”
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WHO SAID YOU CAN’T? CHAPTER & VERSE?
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“God however did create Hebrew and Greek at the tower of Babel if I'm not mistaken, Greek is very similar to phoenician - so those langauges (and during the time of apostleship) would have had some "divine inspiration."
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IF DevonR were to spend the rest of his life researching the inane, sophomoric, and absurd statements that he just made – he couldn’t possibly PROVE his “assumptions”! WHY do Bible skeptics always make such ridiculous claims?
Does DevonR “think” that Adam & Eve spoke Hebrew? What about from Seth on down through Job – did they all speak Hebrew? Who was the FIRST HEBREW? Abraham was the very first Hebrew (approximately 2,000 years after Adam) – did all of Adam’s descendants speak Hebrew – BEFORE the very FIRST Hebrew showed up? WHERE is the PROOF that God created the Hebrew language? Abraham was removed from the happenings at the Tower of Babel by approximately 300 years – WHO spoke “Hebrew” all of that time? Hmmm?
And what about “THE GREEK”? DevonR’s speculation about the Greek language being “created” by God is so tenuous that it doesn’t deserve comment – except to say that DevonR’s suppositions and speculations are unworthy of someone who claims the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps DevonR could explain the difference between “SOME divine inspiration” and genuine inspiration. But, on the other hand, I’m not in the mood for more “fairy tales”.
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“I would like to get something correct here, I do NOT advocate any new translation, they are garbage (thus empty threats of calling me a modernist are eliminated, otherwise I'd be first to pull out an NIV), you're not going to beat Edward de Vere, King James, and all of those great translators; plus, they weren't planning to butcher the Bible.”
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Again, just for the record, no one called DevonR a “MODERNIST”! I said he fits right in with “modern day Christians”. Many, if not most, of today’s Christians (God’s children) have no idea WHAT God’s word is, or WHERE to find it – thanks to the numerous self-appointed “experts” (like DevonR), who are not only confused themselves, but are spreading their leaven throughout the body of Christ.
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“I would like to get something correct here, I do NOT advocate any new translation”
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No, DevonR doesn’t advocate a new translation, since that might obligate him to adhere to some “final authority”. No, it’s much better (for DevonR) that he not advocate anything as his “final authority” – that way he can “decide for himself’ just what the word of God says whenever a question of doctrine comes up.
It’s always the same with Bible critics and skeptics – They have NO FINAL AUTHORITY, other than their own personal opinions, conjectures, assumptions, and feelings. And they always run to “THE HEBREW” & “THE GREEK” without ever identifying WHICH “Hebrew” and “Greek” they are referring to, so that we might critique their numerous phantom "authorities".
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“If I said the King James Bible was perfect, I'd be lazy, and would be following a "modernist" doctrine on the contrary - because in King James' day, no one said his translation was perfect, this is a recent belief."
I encourage anyone to read the 1611 preface; it is very good - pity it is removed, now THAT'S what I call modernist "editing."
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After all of DevonR’s unfounded statements and accusations, he finally ends up with a parting shot at all of the genuine Bible believers on this Forum (Bible critics just can’t help themselves  ) “If I said the King James Bible was perfect, I'd be lazy”. So we’re LAZY! It’s almost laughable – if it weren’t so tragic! Let’s see: From 1968 – 1988 I spent at least 12,000 to 15,000 hours studying the issue of “WHICH BIBLE”, and since then, perhaps another 2,000 hours. LAZY??? There are men (Steven Avery, Bibleprotector, John Hinton, & Will Kinney – to mention a few) on this Forum that (when it comes to this issue) can eat me up for breakfast and spit me out for lunch! LAZY – LAZY!!! Why would DevonR say such a thing – without knowing what he was talking about? 
The Bible that is now known as the King James Bible was known only as THE HOLY BIBLE for around 300 years; its critics started calling it the Authorized VERSION in the 1700’s & 1800’s, but ordinary, every day Christians (the kind of men & women that the Lord ate and drank with, and dealt with) called it THE HOLY BIBLE. They believed what genuine Bible believers still believe today. Contrary to what DevonR thinks - it’s NOT a NEW doctrine or belief, it’s a belief that was nearly abandoned by Christians after they became enamored of “Education” and College degrees (after the scholars & the scribes convinced many Christians that the HOLY BIBLE was JUST ANOTHER TRANSLATION – just exactly like DevonR believes!)
I am done (for now); DevonR has proven that he is just one more Bible critic and skeptic that “thinks” that he “knows it all”, and when presented with the truth takes refuge in false statements and accusations. We all know who the accuser of the brethren is – DevonR should carefully consider what he is saying and doing. But if he is like all of the other Bible critics and skeptics that have come on this Forum in the last year, he will IGNORE everything that we have said and continue spreading his false statements and leaven.
Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Last edited by George; 02-06-2009 at 05:08 PM.
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