[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha sister Here Am I,

A word of warning sister: - the comments of BC and LindaR are not to be relied on. However, brother Forrest is asking a legitimate question. And I think your statement covers the issue.

This "problem" stems from the teaching that "Salvation has always been the SAME" from the creation of Adam up until the Great White Throne Judgment (in every Dispensation and under every Covenant of God.).

If BC's and LindaR's supposition ("that Salvation has always been the same") is right then their judgment on this issue is correct. HOWEVER, if "Salvation" in the Millennial reign of Christ is dependent on "works", then you are correct!

Thank you, brother. I was trying to explain my position, what I understand about the GWTJ, but I'm not terribly eloquent, er, rather, literate?

There are several passages in Revelation, alone, that refers to needing works for salvation, as in Matthew 25. We are in a period of grace, but those in the Tribulation and Millenium will not be.

I had a pretty good Sunday School teacher at my old church. However, he also got stuck on that 'OT salvation by looking forward to the cross' stuff, which does not make sense when you study Scripture. It's easy to just accept what some teacher tells you...it's a lot more work to search the Scriptures yourself...and often open yourself up to ridicule and scorn by those around you that prefer to believe what they are told, without checking it out for themselves.

{What are the "books" for - if everyone is going to the Lake of Fire? What is "the book of life" doing there -

Good point.

In the Millennium, where does FAITH come into play when the Lord of Glory is ruling and reigning on the throne of David, and you have millions of glorified saints all over the world, ruling and reigning with Him? [Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.] Where is the "Faith", when millions of carbon copies of Jesus Christ are going to be present on this world, ruling and reigning with the Lord of Glory, who will rule and reign from His Throne in Jerusalem?
If the people in the Millennium can SEE the Lord Jesus Christ (and millions of glorified saints) Just exactly where is FAITH if: Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Also a point I have made in the past, it might have been here or it might have been elsewhere...if you see the Lord Jesus, then you don't have faith, you KNOW He is, just like Adam and Eve didn't need faith, they walked with the Lord daily!

So, they were saved by .....works.... by not eating the fruit...

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why is the Lord looking in the "book of life" - looking for someone, if they ALL are already condemned? "Whosoever was not found" - can we except the concept that the Lord is looking in the "book of life", and all that He is going to find is DEATH? I trow not.

That's a point I was trying to make, earlier, but I wasn't able to get it across as well as you have here. Thanks.

I do not believe that this issue is a "Fellowship" BREAKER - unless someone becomes belligerent and obnoxious over it.

Not for me, either. If someone insists that there are only damned people at the GWTJ, it doesn't affect my salvation, nor theirs.

Originally Posted by Forrest

Okay, brother. I'm open to learning. First, I've heard of this.

I love it when someone gives me a tidbit, and I chew on it a bit, and realize that the Lord has used them to give me something good, and important, and profitable!

But I don't mind people disagreeing with me, if they show me with Scripture, why they think they are right and I am wrong. I'm no scholar, just a very inadequate student, wanting to cram as much as I can into this inadequate brain in as little time as possible...I want to understand it all, now! LOL!

Originally Posted by chette777

forrest, works are always done in faith or not in faith. when works done by faith prior to the cross or during the Tribulation it would get them written in the Lambs book.

works during the Millennial Kingdom wil be by works alone because they cant have faith in that which they can see, Jesus sitting on His throne. remember Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. you cant have faith in Christ int eh Millennial Kingdom only works. if the works are done with pure motive they will be written in the lambs book of life. if not they will face judgement right on teh spot for He is a righteous judge. you don't dare come to Jerusalem in the millennial Kingdom with your oblation with a wrong motive or inpure heart in the work. it will get you judged and executed.

Amen, brother.

And also, thank you VR, for explaining what I was thinking a lot better than I could, making clear what I was trying to convey.