[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Diligent9

It is ignorant to imply that it is not an English word. It was an English word as early as the year 1250. To say it is a "botching" to have this in the KJV is just ridiculous, since nearly every other English translation also uses the word. Your research is sorely wanting.

Hi Diligent,

'Sorely wanting' is an understatement.

Since virtually every sentence that TRO wrote is biased against the King James Bible and the 'scholarship' weak, a bit more response is needed. The answers in the posts above have been simply ignored (such as the fact that the Anglican church at that time was largely immersionist).

Please notice especially the complete lack of TRO addressing the many NT usages where "immersion" would fail in translation, some are given above, some are below in the Wikipedia article.

TRO adds one major new deception, "going to the Greek" by misreferencing Liddell and Scott, falsely implying that L & S says that baptizo must = immersion.

Originally Posted by TRO

The Greek word baptizo means immersion and was even used by pagan authors to describe the sinking of ships and drowning (see Liddel and Scott).

Wikipedia is actually quite thorough on this, with a good Greek font, and referencing Liddell and Scott. The Greek word has a wide range of meaning, and TRO is being scholastically dishonest in his selectivity.

(I will add that dip and plunge are very different than immerse as well, a point largely overlooked in the article, and as Christians we know this from cases where the immersion is not full submersion and then folks are rebaptised.)

Scripture references added from the pure Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism
Meaning of the Greek word βαπτίζω

The Greek-English Lexicon of Liddell and Scott gives the primary meaning of the word βαπτίζω (transliterated as "baptizô"), from which the English word baptism is derived, as dip, plunge, but indicates, giving Luke 11:38 as an example, that another meaning is perform ablutions.[9]

Liddell and Scott is not the only authority to state that the Greek word βαπτίζω does not mean exclusively, dip, plunge, immerse. Scholars of various denominations[10] point to two passages in the New Testament as indicating that the word was used also for something much less than the total immersion (submersion) of the person. Luke 11:38 recounts that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee's house, "the Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash (βαπτίζω – literally, "be baptized" or "baptize himself") before dinner." Those who point to this passage say that the Pharisee will not have expected Jesus to immerse himself fully before having a meal and that his surprise will have been at Jesus' omission of the customary ritual washing of the hands.[11] By Jewish tradition this washing of the hands before a meal is performed by pouring water over them, not by dipping the hands in water.[12] The other New Testament passage pointed to is Mark 7:3–4a: "The Pharisees ... do not eat unless they wash (νίπτω, the ordinary word for washing) their hands thoroughly, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves (literally, "baptize themselves" - βαπτίζω)".

Luke 11:38
And when the Pharisee saw it,
he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.

Mark 7:3-4
For the Pharisees, and all the Jews,
except they wash their hands oft, eat not,
holding the tradition of the elders.
And when they come from the market,
except they wash, they eat not.
And many other things there be,
which they have received to hold,
as the washing of cups, and pots,
brasen vessels, and of tables.

9) Liddell, Henry George; Scott, Robert (1940). A Greek-English Lexicon, revised and augmented throughout by Sir Henry Stuart Jones with the assistance of Roderick McKenzie, Oxford: Clarendon Press. ISBN 0198642261.

10) For instance, The Mode of Baptism; The Sacrament of Baptism#How is Baptism to be Applied?; Baptism: Immersion Only?

11) This is the passage that Liddell and Scott cites as an instance of the use of βαπτίζω to mean perform ablutions. Jesus' omission of the rite has been compared with that by his disciples, mentioned in Matthew 15:1-2: "Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 'Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash (νίπτω) their hands when they eat.'"

12) Jewish Encyclopedia: Ablution

Once again, contextually any sensible exegete will see that the mode of water baptism in the New Testament is immersion. It is sad to see such tawdry pseudo-scholarship about "the Greek" and attacking the pure Bible from folks who appear to be too lazy or ill-informed or dumbed-down that they cannot show that the New Testament teaches water baptism by immersion through many infallible scriptural proofs.

The following article shows that anti-immersionists make the opposite error in "going to the Greek" as TRO:

http://truediscipleship.com/bsub/subjects48.htm
How is Baptism Defined by Greek Dictionaries ?

"Baptizo in various forms is used 112 times in the New Testament, always meaning ‘pouring’" (E.J. Berkey, The Bible Mode of Baptism, p. 15).

A summary is given.

"The standard Greek lexicons reveal that the term means to dip, to immerse, to plunge, to sink, to submerge"

Thus the Greek alone allows for, but does not force, immersion, the context and the usage in the New Testament demonstrates that baptism is much more. To start you have:

a) immersion (submersion is more precise)
b) emersion
c) in response to repentance and faith (Hebrews 6)

The answer of a good conscience towards God. (1 Peter 3:21)

The English word baptism, properly defined, includes all these elements.

Shalom,
Steven