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Old 05-25-2009, 10:01 PM
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George George is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
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Default Re: "Is water baptism for today?"

Aloha brothers Parrish, Winman, and Fredoheaven,

This Post is in reply to your comments. It is my earnest desire that you carefully consider what follows, because I consider this Post to be the "crux" of this issue about the word "Gospel".

What is needed when discussing Scriptural issues (i.e. doctrine) is a clear understanding of the words being discussed. I believe that the meaning of the word “Gospel” is misunderstood by the vast majority of Christians, in that most Christians think and believe that there is ONLY ONE “Gospel” – and therein lies the “confusion”.

The Apostle Paul wrote (and spoke) about “my gospel”:
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
The Apostle Paul also wrote (and spoke) about “our gospel”:
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

1 Thessalonians 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
WHY the emphasis on “MY” {or “OUR”) “GOSPEL”? IF Paul’s “Gospel” was the SAME as the “gospel” that was being preached BEFORE he was called - WHY call it “MY GOSPEL”, unless Paul’s “Gospel” was DIFFERENT from the “gospel” preached BEFORE he (Paul) was called?

Wouldn’t it be extremely presumptuous of the Apostle Paul to claim “exclusivity” for his (MY) “Gospel”, if Peter, James, John, Philip, Stephen, etc. had been preaching the SAME “gospel” all along (BEFORE Paul showed up on the scene)? Amongst those of us who preach and teach God’s Holy word, do you know of anyone who would have the audacity to claim that the “Gospel” that we preach is “MY Gospel”? Cults might do such a thing, but genuine Bible believing people wouldn’t dare!

I wouldn’t DARE call the “Gospel” that Paul preached: “MY GOSPEL” – not under any circumstances, not on my life! And yet the Apostle Paul proclaimed that the “Gospel” that he preached was – “MY GOSPEL” - in contrast to the “gospel” that was preached BEFORE he was given the revelation of the mysteries of God; one of which was that the “church of God” (i.e. the “body of Christ”) was to be made up of both Jews & Gentiles. {See my Thread on “Rightly Dividing God’s Words” and the definition of the word “church”:}

When I teach the word of God I am always careful to distinguish between Paul’s “Gospel” and the “gospel” that was proclaimed in the Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (and in the first few Chapters of the Book of Acts). I am also careful to distinguish Paul’s “Gospel” from that spoken of in Revelation, i.e. the “everlasting gospel”.

The “problem” that we encounter when we discuss this issue is our (Christian’s) pre-conceived idea as to WHAT the word “Gospel” means. To most Christians the word “Gospel” has only ONE meaning, i.e. the “good news” of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary for our sin (sins). But the truth is that when the Lord Jesus Christ was here on earth preaching, teaching, and ministering exclusively to His people (the Hebrews-Jews-Israelites) the “gospel” that the Lord Jesus Christ spoke of [17 times in Matthew, Mark, & Luke (not in John)] was the “good news” that the nation of Israel’s Messiah & King HAS COME – NOT that Christ died for our sins, and was buried, and rose again the third day. Paul’s “Gospel” = {the “good news” of “the Gospel of the Grace of God” [Acts 20:24]} is NOT THE SAME as the “gospel” of the Kingdom = (the “good news” that “the Messias” is come to “save His people (the Jews) from their sins” and to set up His earthly KINGDOM.)

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. {Hebrews/Jews/Israelites - ONLY}

Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, {Hebrews/Jews/Israelites - ONLY}

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, {Hebrews/Jews/Israelites - ONLY}

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people. {Hebrews/Jews/Israelites - ONLY}
Is there even a “hint” that this “Good News” (“gospel”) applied to any other people other than Jews (Hebrews-Israelites) and Jews ONLY?
John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Now HOW did these ignorant Jewish fishermen know WHO the Messiah was? And HOW did the ignorant Samaritan (part-Jew) woman know about the Messiah? They knew because they had enough familiarity with the Hebrew “Oracles of God” {i.e. the Hebrew Scriptures} to expect the “Messiah” – NOT as the HEAD of the New Testament church (with both Jews and Gentiles), but as (exclusively) the Jews’ Saviour & King.
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
What none of them knew (or refused to believe) was that the Jews’ Messiah & King was going to be “CUT OFF”.
Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark 9:31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32 But they understood
not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood
none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

John 20:8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9 For as yet they
knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
What none of them knew was that even after Peter James, John, Philip, Stephen, and the rest of the Disciples preached (from Acts Chapters 2-7) the “SOON RETURN” of Israel’s Messiah & King to the nation Israel - IF the nation of Israel would REPENT of killing the Lord of Glory; that upon the nation of Israel’s REJECTION of Peter’s call for National REPENTANCE for murdering their Messiah & King, that God would TURN TO THE GENTILES (beginning at Acts Chapters 8-10) and establish His church (the church of God); the “mystery” of the body of Christ, made up of Jews & Gentiles, (a “mystery” revealed to the Apostle Paul [Ephesians 5:32]– and NOT to Peter, James, John, etc.)

What all of the Jewish disciples were expecting AFTER Christ’s resurrection from the dead was the “RESTORATION” of the nation of Israel to its former ‘glory” – they weren’t thinking about (or expecting) the individual salvation of both Jews & Gentiles (that was the furthest thing from their minds)
Luke 24:13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in
Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Did you “get that”? The Disciples weren’t concerned withindividual salvation” (i.e. Paul’s “Gospel” – 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4); they were concerned about “the Kingdom” – because that is what the Holy Scriptures emphasized from the days of King David up to the days of the Lord Jesus Christ! They had every right to expect the “Kingdom” to be “RESTORED” – what they couldn’t foresee was that the nation of Israel (through its “leaders”) would REJECT (for the last time) the “gospel” (good news) that Peter and the others were presenting – which was:
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? {ONLY JEWS}

13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. {ONLY JEWS!}

14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; {ONLY JEWS!}

15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. {ONLY JEWS!}

16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. {ONLY JEWS!}
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also
your rulers. {ONLY JEWS!}

18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. {ONLY JEWS!}

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; {ONLY JEWS!}

And he shall SEND Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: {ONLY JEWS!}
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. {ONLY JEWS!}

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. {ONLY JEWS!}

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. {ONLY JEWS!}

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. {ONLY JEWS!}

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. {ONLY JEWS!}

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. {ONLY JEWS!}
If you can find ONE “GENTILE” in the foregoing 15 verses – I’d like to know WHO it would be. Peter is NOT preaching Paul’s “Gospel”:
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that
he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
There may be “elements” of Paul’s “Gospel” in these verses (and in Acts Chapter 2), but the words that Peter is speaking here are addressed exclusively to Jews (Hebrews/Israelites) and specifically for the benefit of their “RULERS” – there isn’t one single Gentile mentioned in Peter’s “whole discourse” and the “discourse” is NOT about “individual salvation”!

This is a “message” (from God) prompted by the Holy Spirit that spells out to the nation of Israel:

Ye men of Israel” – “The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied” – “ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you” – “And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses” – “And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers” – “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” – “And he shall SEND Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you”.

I didn’t ADD ONE WORD to the “message” that Peter delivered, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, (exclusively) to the nation of Israel (Hebrews/Jews/Israelites - ONLY).

The “message” is simply: You (Israel) “delivered up” and “killed” the “Holy One”; the “Prince of Life”; God’s “Son, Jesus”. You, and your “rulers”, did it “through ignorance”. Now “REPENT” (of killing Him), and be “CONVERTED” (change your hearts and minds) so that your “SINS” (of delivering & killing God’s Son) may be blotted out; and IF you “REPENT” (of killing your Messiah) – “He (GOD) shall SEND Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you”! Did you get that?

The “message” ("gospel" -good news) that Peter delivered was NOT Paul’s “Gospel” – it was simply: you killed the Lord of Glory – REPENT of this SIN and God will SEND the Lord Jesus Christ BACK! BACK to do WHAT – WHY to set up the “Kingdom” that all of the Jewish Disciples were rightfully “expecting”. So WHAT HAPPENED? The Jews (the “Rulers” of the nation of Israel) REFUSED TO “REPENT” (of killing the Holy One of Israel) and because of their REFUSAL God turned to the Gentiles; and called the Apostle of the Gentiles (Paul); and “revealed” to Paul “the Gospel of the Grace of God” – Paul’s “Gospel”, that “Gospel” which he called: “MY GOSPEL”, to distinguish it from the peculiarly Jewish “gospel” which preceded it.

For approximately 2,000 years God has been dealing the Gentiles through His Holy word and the “church of God” [1 Timothy 3:15]. I believe that we are close to the “fulness of the Gentiles” [Romans 11:25]; and if I am right, then God is preparing to “pick up” with “His people” (Hebrews/Jews/Israelites) where He “left off” nearly 2,000 years ago. I believe that God is just about done with His Gentile church. It (the church) has proven to be just as rotten and corrupt as the nation of Israel was at the time of Christ (maybe “more so”).

If I am right, then all of the troubling “events” occurring around the world are just a “PRELUDE” to the “Time of Jacob’s Troubles” (The Great Tribulation). I believe that Almighty God is just about “done” with His church and that He is getting ready to “translate” us out of here, so that He can “get on” with his plan to “RESTORE” THE KINGDOM to His people (Israel), as He promised by the mouth of His Holy Prophets (ALL JEWS) long before we (Christians) came on the scene.

ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES: The Word GOSPEL = Good Message; Good News; or Glad Tidings. In the Holy Scriptures the word “Gospel” is NOT limited to just ONE GOSPEL {i.e. Paul’s “Gospel” – The “Gospel” of the Grace of God}.

Last edited by George; 05-25-2009 at 10:15 PM.