[George]

Aloha brother Winman,

The following are some brief comments (brief for me ) on some of your statements in your Post #10. These comments are in no way meant to castigate or berate you in any way. I sometimes am a little brusque in my comments, and often times people mistake my bluntness as a personal attack, which most of the time they are not.

"Boy, I'm getting a little confused, or perhaps I am not understanding everyone."

Please READ my Post #8 this Thread and check out ALL of brother Steven Rich's Posts - this is not a matter to be decided by the intellect, nor is it a matter of human reasoning.

"And it is clear that everybody has the personal choice to accept or refuse Christ."

It's NOT so much a matter of personal "choice"; "accept"; or "refuse"; as it is a matter of BELIEF, RECEIVE, or UNBELIEF. The former are all things that one can do with the MIND (i.e. the "intellect"); the latter are all things that must be done in the HEART! The "KEY" is "BELIEF" in Christ - NOT "choice". We did NOT "choose" the Lord Jesus Christ - we "BELIEVED" IN/ON Him. Your choice of words (in this case) is not very "Biblical":

You cannot find a place in the New Testament where anyone "chooses" (or "chose") God; "chooses" (or "chose") the Lord; "chooses" (or "chose") Jesus; or "chooses" (or "chose") Christ (the phrase is a "modern construct" that cannot be found in the Holy Bible - check it out with Swordsearcher). You cannot find a place in the New Testament where anyone "accepts" God; "accepts" the Lord; "accepts" Jesus; or "accepts" Christ (the phrase is a "modern construct" that cannot be found in the Holy Bible - check it out with Swordsearcher). You cannot find a place in the New Testament where anyone "refuses" God; "refuses" the Lord; "refuses" Jesus; or "refuses" Christ (the phrase is a "modern construct" that cannot be found in the Holy Bible - check it out with Swordsearcher).

A person may "choose" to BELIEVE in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (i.e. the Gospel). A person can RECEIVE the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour (but it's NOT a matter of "accepting" the person of Christ). A person can "refuse" to "believe" (i.e. UNBELIEF) in/on the Lord Jesus (i.e. the Gospel), but nowhere's in Scripture does it say a person can "refuse" Christ.

These may seem like small matters to you, but to me they amount to changing (substituting words not found in the text) and adding to the Holy words of God.

You are basing your personal belief on WORDS that are NOT associated with the issue; that is WORDS that have been SUBSTITUTED in place of Scriptural words - i.e. God's words that are found in the context and that are clearly associated with the issue. {This is WHY I am so "persnickety" when it comes to using Bible words when determining "Bible "Doctrine.}

"I have heard it said that grace and mercy are opposites. Grace is God giving us something we do not deserve, while mercy is God not giving us something we deserve."

I am afraid that ""I have heard it said" is not very "authoritative" with a Bible believer (such as myself). I need Scriptures to back up someone's personal beliefs.

"I tie the phrase "it is the gift of God" to "For by grace" in Eph 2:8, not to "through faith"."

Which, because of the "liberty" we have in Christ, is your prerogative. But on the other hand, I need MORE than your personal opinion to settle the matter.

"This is why God calls those who fail to believe disobediant ." Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

The "failure" on the part of Israel was in refusing to BELIEVE "OUR REPORT", i.e. God's words (Isaiah 10:16). What's your point.

"Perhaps I am misunderstanding those here. If saving faith is a gift from God, then one can only conclude that those who are lost did not receive this gift from God."

You are absolutely right! They did not receive "this gift" BECAUSE they have NOT BELIEVED the Gospel of the Grace of God (i.e. Paul's gospel)

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because ofunbelief:

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

"thou standest by faith" - Now the question arises: By "WHO'S FAITH" am I standing? BY my own "faith"? After 50 years of being a child of God, I can testify that IF I am standing by MY OWN "FAITH" - I'm in trouble! I know better, because my personal FAITH - "ain't what it ought to be". I am standing by the "FAITH" of my Lord and Saviour

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

With all due respect brother, I believe that you are confusing or mixing up the words "faith" and "belief" - They are NOT THE SAME. I have addressed the issue of the difference between "faith" and "belief" in the following links:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=261
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=267
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=84
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=117
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...4&postcount=20