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Originally Posted by Daniel Haifley
Will, I believe in the verbal, plenary, inspiration of the scriptures. Verbal -meaning God gave the words to the holy men of old (Peter 1:21) Plenary-meaning God gave us all that we need and that we need all that we have (2 Timothy 3:16-17) Inspiration- meaning that God was the source of the words and God is the source of the change that comes from the words.
Is a copy of the original writings inspired? Does it even say that they were all written down? It says they "spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." Was the original inspiration written or spoken? In some cases it was written (ie. Moses) in others it was spoken (ie. Peter at pentecost). If a copy of the original transmission of the scripture was inspired - is a translation of the original transmission also equally inspired? An interesting thought here is that the Word was given by inspiration, but so also was Adam's life given by inspiration. I believe spiritual life is given by "in"spiration.
I am not one of the great teachers of our time, but I am willing to be taught. I am a Bible believer but I have found it hard to put an Infinite God into the box of my finite mind. I am enjoying all of the comments on this thread, and have been instructed in many ways, however don't try to box me into a corner that you have designed for me.
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Hi Daniel. Thanks for your thoughts. However you seem to be avoiding a direct answer. It looks like it is YOU who has boxed himself into a corner and since you cannot rationally defend your previous statements, you now charge that it is I who am boxing you into this corner you have made for yourself. I am just asking you to back up what you say you believe.
First of all, you say you believe in the inspiration of "the scriptures". Great! We are agreed on that. But "the scriptures" are divine words WRITTEN DOWN. The word "Scriptures" comes from the verb "to write"; not "to speak", nor "to give life to", nor "to breathe into".
Previously you stated:
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“I believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of the scriptures. I also believe that God is not limited to one language (English is not the language of heaven-Americans are not the chosen). He can inspire in 18 languages at one time -if He so chooses, ie. Acts 2.”
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Then you went on to say:
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" I believe that God, Himself, was involved in the translation of the King James Version, but I don't believe that He is limited to one language.
All King James Bible Believers are men of faith, and I am blessed to be one of those. We believe that God keeps His promises. However, faith is not a blind acceptance of some mans opinion. It is the substance of things hoped for-the evidence of things not seen. It is always anchored in the promises of God. God did not promise that He would give the Bible in one language and then everyone must come to that language. He promised to preserve it, but He also promised to give it to the whole world."
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The context of our whole discussion is whether or not there exists such a thing as the complete, inspired and inerrant words of God in book form (the Scriptures) or not. I and many others believe there is and it is called the Authorized King James Holy Bible.
You say you believe God is not limited to one language, and that God has promised to give "the scriptures" to the whole world. Fine. All I am asking you to do is to tell us exactly where we can get a copy of "the scriptures" in any language other than the English of the King James Bible.
If you cannot do so, then it is YOU who is basing your beliefs on what you referred to as "the wisdom of men". It would be great if God has indeed done it the way you seem to think He did. So, where is the proof of your theory? Can you show us the Book in any language other than the English of the King James Bible?
Otherwise you are professing a faith in something that you know does not exist and have taken the position of most Bible agnostics today who tell us that only the originals were inspired. We are then left with a bunch of hypothetical, imaginary, philosophical and speculative "inspired Scriptures" that you have never seen and cannot show us.
All I am asking you to do is to concretely back up your previous statements about God not being limited to one language as far as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible.
Will you do that for us? (I trow not;-)
Will Kinney