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Old 11-07-2008, 03:57 PM
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George George is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: Brother Tim's Comment

Originally Posted by Brother Tim View Post
Guys, could y'all step back a little while and let the dust settle?

Aloha brother Tim,

I appreciate your concern for the "tone" of this debate between myself and MC1171611. However, MC1171611 has missed the whole point of my Posts, and that is: Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

The Apostles named some of the heretics, false teachers, and troublemakers in the churches, and if we are not allowed to name names now (because of Humanistic Political Correctness, "PC"), then we are in big trouble, because false doctrine and heresy along with false teachers and heretics will be allowed to flourish because we don't won't to "hurt someone's feelings"; or because UNITY in the church may be disturbed. But what does God have to say about all this?

I ask you to "review"
MC1171611's responses (his Posts #56 & #60 #62 & #64) to my Posts and please take note of the total lack of a single Scripture in all of his responses! And also take note of his last statement:
"I'm sorry you reacted so badly, but that's not my fault. I would hope you could understand some of the Biblical principles that I allude to, since I'm rather busy and don't really have time to sit down and put together a verse-laden post."
If he refuses to back up his "opinions" with the Holy Scriptures, why is he even commenting on the issue - unless he "thinks" that his "opinions" are "alluding" to Scripture?

Now, IF, you go to his Post on inspiration "Inspiration Biblically" you will understand why he "low-rates" Scripture (according to him - it's NOT inspired!), and elevates his own "opinions".

This debate started after brother Atlas included Greg Estep in amongst a group of men that he admired and recommended. I was fairly sure that brother Atlas was unaware that Estep is a false teacher and a heretick and I warned him that he should be very careful WHO he recommends.
{I have been on this Forum for about 8 months, and it's not like I have been on a personal "vendetta" against Estep during all of that time. In the approximately 420 Posts that I have made during all of this time, I may have mentioned him once (in passing) and certainly did not seek to expose him - not until brother Atlas mentioned him, at which time I felt obligated to set the record straight.}

After brother Atlas checked out my expose of the so-called "Doctrine of Submission" on my web page, he informed me that he was unaware that Estep taught this false teaching and said he agreed with almost everything that I had written in my critique on the false doctrine and Greg Estep - end of story! UNTIL - MC1171611 came fourth with his testimony and private opinions about "how to handle the issue" - which are totally unscriptural.

The question arises: What are we (Christians) to do about False Teachers and Heretics? The Bible is real clear as to what we are to do, and so it comes down to - do we follow God's Holy word, or do we follow our "conscience", our "feelings", or our own "private opinions"?

As far as I am concerned, I intend (to the best of my ability) to obey the Scriptures, and if some of the "brethren", think that I'm too "vociferous", "unreasonable", "bitter", "whining", "proud", "bashing", "slanderous", "unperceptive", "evil speaking", "unjustly judging", or that I have A "wrong or bad attitude" (ALL accusations made by MC1171611 against me), THEN - SO BE IT!

But there is one thing I am not going to do - I am not going to ignore the Scriptures and do "WHAT I THINK IS BEST", just to "get along"; just for the sake of "peace" and "unity"; just so I can "feel good" about myself and avoid exposing heresy (and heretics), because it really isn't that important! This is how every church that has ever been existence has become apostate and reprobate - by failing to contend for the truth!

I appreciate your concern brother, and I too am concerned about the acrimony displayed in the debate between myself and MC1171611. I would ask you to re-examine our Posts and judge (for yourself) who has been standing for the truth and who has been promoting his own private opinions. {1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.}

The following verses are just some of the verses that the Lord has supplied us with, so that we might be "on guard" against "false teachers" and "heretics" and their pernicious doctrines (NOT just: "he's simply a man who had a doctrine wrong"):

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us withmaliciouswords: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:16
These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

If I am to err in my judgment in this matter, I am going to err on the side of the Scriptures, and not on the side of my own private opinions, which are highly susceptible error ". . . .
yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, . . ." Romans 3:4

I can remember way back in 1973, when after much searching of the Scriptures, I came to the conclusion that the only way to "safe-guard" our children from the corrupting influence of Humanism was for us to "homeschool" them. I can remember (at that time) most of the "brethren" disagreeing with me, and even some pastors saying that I must obey Caesar in the matter (As if Caesar owned my children! As if God had blessed Caesar with my children and not my wife and I!) Well, we went ahead and homeschooled them anyway, in spite of the "prevailing opinions" amongst the "brethren" at that time. I wonder how many of the "brethren" would disagree with my convictions now - 35 years later?

Sometimes a man has to stand - no matter what the cost; no matter how many accusations are made against him; and no matter what others may "think" of him. There are times that we, as men, must "man up" and stand up for the truth - no matter what the "brethren" "think" or say: 1 Corinthians 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.