[George]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Brother George,

I understand that this issue has affected you personally, but I must entreat you (as a father ) to see whether perhaps the damage Bro. Estep's teaching has caused you has made you at least seem a little bitter toward him. I'm not defending Bro. Estep in the least; I know his teachings on submission are unbiblical and problem-causing. However, that's not the only thing he taught. Bro. Estep was an amazing Bible teacher, and while he's wrong on this and other things, and obviously puts too much importance on irrelevant issues, it seems to me as if you're taking this a little too personally. Perhaps you and he cannot get along because of the trouble he has caused you in the past; if that's the case, then by all means do not vex yourself with his teachings. But I fear that whatever happened in your past with him is causing you to portray him very negatively to others.. {"VERY NEGATIVELY"? - Where can I find that in the Bible?}

My family left the church of a very prominent PBI graduate who is a missionary to a country in Southeast Asia. This man is extremely controlling in a manipulative, behind-the-scenes way, and it almost caused my younger brother to completely leave the family (he was 16 at the time!). My mother was an emotional wreck over the damage this man and his actions caused toward my father and our family. However, I don't think I would be right in exposing this man, because doing so would jeopardize a ministry that God has blessed, and affect a whole bunch of people and several churches in that country. The man is very wrong, sinful, and likely illegal by what he has done. But I don't have peace to expose him to the brethren. {Ah yes - "PEACE" & "UNITY" - That's what's important! NOT THE TRUTH!}

I'm not saying that you shouldn't expose doctrine, but perhaps a reevaluation of your approach to Bro. Estep personally would be advisable. That is but a TINY PORTION of what Bro. Estep taught, and while it is a very wrong, and very destructive doctrine, he's hardly the first to teach it or act by it. A former pastor of a church my family attended was just as dogmatic about pastoral authority; he'd never heard of Bro. Estep: he was a Hyles grad! Bro. Estep may be the loudest on teaching it, but he's far from the first one to do so. God bless.
{"That is but a TINY PORTION of what Bro. Estep taught, and while it is a very wrong, and very destructive doctrine, he's hardly the first to teach it or act by it. And that makes it RIGHT?}

Aloha MC1171611,

So, according to your thinking: "A LITTLE LEAVEN doesn't really LEAVEN the whole lump" - is that it? Spare me the Humanistic Psychologizing! You don't know me from Adam - You can't possibly know what is in my heart - so don't even go there!

In the face of the Biblical teaching:

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and BEWARE of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. {The Religious "leaders"}

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of bread, but of the of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Galatians 5:9 A LITTLE LEAVEN leaveneth the whole lump.

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a LITTLE LEAVEN leaveneth the whole lump?
7: PURGE OUT therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Your "Logic" is based in Humanism - NOT the Scriptures! The Pharisees were "in Moses' seat"; they taught a whole lot of sound doctrine; they lived exemplary lives (and were proud of it!); they followed the Law (outwardly); and yet the Lord was much tougher on those religious leaders than he was on cussing fishermen; adulterous women; publicans; wine bibbers; etc.

Give me a break! Your "advise" is contrary to everything that the Lord Jesus Christ (and the Apostle Paul) taught! Ask yourself - where does this kind of "thinking" come from? All of these mini-popes should be exposed for what they are - USURPERS! PRETENDERS! THIEVES & ROBBERS! DESTROYERS OF CHURCHES! DESTROYERS OF CHRISTIAN'S FAITH!

Your advise reeks of "respect of persons" - So then: "let us do evil, that good may come"? {That is: compromise on the commandments concerning just a little leaven, because, after all, these men have done so much "good"; they have won so many people to the Lord; they have built "successful" churches; God has used them; etc,; etc.} Ah yes, that reminds me of another person who was a real KING - not a PRETENDER!

You know the story about King Saul - he had all the "right" motives but he was disobedient to the Lord's command - and he lost his Kingdom for his disobedience!
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Now let me get this straight: Are you "recommending" that we "ignore" God's commandment given in His Holy word concerning "a little leaven", because we should "respect" Estep (or any other so-called man of God); or that we should respect his work on behalf of God (or any other so-called man of God)? Hmmm?

In the face of:
1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a LITTLE LEAVEN leaveneth the whole lump?
7: PURGE OUT therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Are you "recommending" that we "ignore" God's commandment and "retain" the "old lump", so that we can remain "leavened" instead of "unleavened"? Hmmm? Know ye not that "your glorying is NOT good"?

You don't know my heart - you can't possibly know my heart, since only God knows the heart. I got over the bitterness years ago, but for 25 years I have seen the "FRUIT" of this teaching and there is only one way of dealing with it - and it's not "compromise"; or "ignoring" what God commands us to do when faced with it. We are to "PURGE OUT the old leaven" in order to remain "unleavened" (that is - without heresy or heretics!)

This is NOT "personal" with me - it is Scriptural! If you were to study church "history" {Schaff's, LaTourette's, Cunningham's, Ruckman's, Eardman's, etc.) you would know that "respect of persons" has been the bane and curse of Christianity from its inception. Almost all false doctrine and heresy and has been introduced by and through the "leaders" in the churches. We cannot, we must not, compromise on this issue. We cannot "excuse" false doctrine and heresy because we like the pastor; or because he is doing a work for God; or because he is winning people to the Lord; ETC.; ETC.

We MUST be obedient to God's word (first-last-& always) in spite of our "feelings", and expose false doctrine and heresy (along with the false teachers and heretics) no matter WHO may be teaching it, or promoting it!

Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And now - "I am pure from the blood" of all those on this Forum {including yours}. Do what you will, as for me:

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.