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Old 11-03-2008, 03:04 PM
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George George is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 891
Default Re: Atlas Reply to my comments - a Question About Ruckman

Aloha brother Atlas,

I appreciate your comments about brother Ruckman, and agree (in principle) with almost all of what you said {There was a time (1968-1974) that I might have been labeled a "Ruckmanite", although I have never followed any man "Blindly"}.

However, you made some points with which I must take issue with, and I am not taking issue with what you have said to be a contrarian or a sophist, but because I believe you are mistaken in your judgment.

#1. Your Quote:
"Like the divorce issue for example. They will either put him down for all three marriages like it's all 100% his fault, or they will make him blameless for all of the divorces. Any reasonable man knows that more than likely is was not all Ruckman's fault. That being said Ruckman himself must take some responsibility for his marriages breaking up. Most of the time the husband and wife are both to blame for the divorce. Both the husband's and wife's problems caused the break up. Neither group seems to acknowledge this simple fact. They either defend Ruckman or put him down. never mind common sense on the issue it's either attack Ruckman of defend Ruckman."
If you read brother Ruckman's two auto biographies, he does take "responsibility" for a good portion of the breakup of his first marriage (seeing he married his first wife several years before he was saved, and admits to treating her badly - during the time he was lost).

However, I will beg to "differ" with you as to WHY marriages "breakup" {having been married for 47 years and observing numerous marriage "breakups" during that time). You claimed:
"Ruckman himself must take some responsibility for his marriages breaking up. Most of the time the husband and wife are both to blame for the divorce. Both the husband's and wife's problems caused the break up."
Now I am treading lightly here, so don't get offended, but the above "thinking" is Humanistic - NOT Biblical. I can testify to you that every single marriage "breakup" that I have observed in 68 years of life is because ONE of the parties refuses to be "RECONCILED" to the other [2Corinthians 5:18-19]. To the contrary to what you said: It takes TWO people to make a marriage work and only ONE to destroy it!

This "spreading the blame around" is a psychological ploy to avoid placing the responsibility for the destruction of a marriage on the ONE person who refuses to forgive and reconcile! To the contrary, in most marriage "breakups" (that I have observed) only ONE offending party is guilty of the destruction of their marriage - NOT TWO.

Since no one is "perfect" (my wife comes as close as any woman I have ever met ), there will be "faults" and "imperfections" in both parties in any marriage (that's to be expected), so you cannot place the "blame" for the destruction of a marriage because of the "faults' & "imperfections" of the parties involved. No, the fault lies with the ONE person who refuses to RECONCILE - that's our ministry [2Corinthians 5:18-19], that's what we should be seeking to accomplish (if possible) in all of our relationships with each other (especially in a marriage).

#2. Your Quote:
"I still like Bobby Roberson, Jack Halyes, Sammy Allen, Phil Kidd, Dr. Ruckman, Jimmy Robbins, Dr. Slighter, Don Green, Greg Estep, Billy Kanoey, Billy Kelly and any other good Bible believing preacher I can find."
You have to be careful who you "endorse" as being a "good Bible believing preacher".

I'm not familiar with some of the men you have mentioned, BUT I am familiar with Greg Estep and have witnessed (first hand) the "destructive influence" he has had on Bible believing Christians on the Island of Kauai, and the divisions he and his teaching on his so-called perverse "Doctrine Of Submission" has caused among Christian brethren, friends, and family.

In the 1980's Greg Estep, and his perverted teaching of: "The Doctrine of Submission", was responsible for the breakup of a Bible believing church started by three other men and myself. His unbiblical teachings divided Christian brethren, friends, and family for over 20 years now.

I had Christian friends and there are some people within my own family that were divided over the heresy that Estep taught. And that division has lasted up until this day, some 25 years later!

If you don't believe me, I would ask you to check out my essay on "The Doctrine of Submission" {50+ Pages} on my web site.
If you will, please check out my essay on: "Nicolaitaines & Pastoral Authority" also on the same page.

This heresy is the most destructive teaching that I have observed in 50 years of being a Christian (bar none!) and has been the cause of lost people being offended; saved brethren stumbling and backsliding; and hatred (by those Christians that embraced the heresy) toward Christian brethren, friends, and family that has existed for 25 years! Quite an accomplishment for a "doctrine" that Estep claims to be, in his own words: “The most important doctrine in the Christian life”.

Just a word of caution brother - be very careful who you recommend, some of them (unbeknownst to you) may be heretics.