Before you quote scripture as an example of "who" the apostle meant "withdraw yourself" from take the scripture in light of its context.
Backup a verse
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
This is a warning to the young Timothy about those who change the truth to ease or appease themselves or others, twist scripture to make it fit with what they themselves believe and not the "truth" and we can find the truth in
"the words of our Lord Jesus Christ"
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The irony of your last post is that the scripture you cited refers to what you are doing yourself. Brother George, through the SCRIPTURES has admonished a belief contrary to what you were writing or believing, George simply followed BIBLICAL truth, as this is a BIBLE BELIEVING forum.

I have to post this as calling a dear Brother of mine destitute of the truth and corrupt and perverse minded really got my goat! I can testify of his loving kindness and his Wife Rene's first hand.

I am most certainly sorry that your dog died, I had a german shepard for 13 years and was heartbroken at getting her put down, but by know means did I ever imagine that she had a soul. I would think long and hard and prayerfully about your quoted post, the scripture speaks for itself and you have in your own post admonished yourself without knowing it.

lets finish up by going to the close of 1st Timothy 6

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

The end of this Chapter rings true of the topic raised in these posts and as far as I read George has "kept that which is committed to thy trust"

Brother Brandon...in my opinion, Brother George has "rightly divided the word of truth" in addressing Geologist. Geologist has not.

Furthermore, with the above post he has used the Holy Scripture to justify his own error and has falsely accused a brother in Christ. He started his post by quoting Brother George and then addressed him with Scripture that justifies and supports his sin and total disregard for the word of God.

By doing so, he is accusing Brother George of having the tongue of fire and iniquity, possessing an unruly and evil tongue, and one that is full of deadly poison. He has accussed him of blessing God, even the Father; and cursing men. In addition he has accused Brother George as being proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, and causing envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings. He has falsely accused Brother George of perverse disputings and a corrupt mind. And worst of all...destitute of the truth.

I recommend that from such we withdraw ourselves. :ban:

It is no mistake that "peopleoftheway" and I were typing a similar concern at the same time...he in Northern Ireland and me in Texas!

:amen:

through certain circumstances and situations God can and does speak to people about areas of their lives that He is trying to change via the Holy Ghost. I pray that all would see that whenever there is a situation like this (I have been through them too) that God is trying to speak to all involved not just to Geologist.

I pray we can all learn from from this no matter who is right or wrong. God loves to work in our lives. I have learned from much of what has been said here in this post alone.

At the risk of getting myself banned as well, I would like to say this:

I posted a Scripture earlier in this thread (Proverbs 30) without comment because I dared not enter the conversation with more words, be misunderstood, and get myself in trouble for my point of view. Plus I am a woman and it is not my place to teach or correct men. Yet just posting the Scripture led to misunderstanding and more words from George and others. Geologist requested that this conversation be dropped (Renee did as well), but George would not drop it. Geologist then quoted appropriate Scriptures about the situation, withdrawing himself from the continued fruitless argumentation. Whatever he says at this point will make the situation worse. He tried to clarify once to no avail. George railed on. Apparently we cannot even quote Scripture for thoughtful consideration without judging the intent of someone's heart (which we are forbidden to do in Scripture).

I tried to put out a fire of harsh words back and forth at another forum about a year ago. I did so by changing the subject and posting a controversial article about polygamy in the Bible that was in the news at the time. I thought maybe the conversation would gravitate to discussion of that subject and the feuding between certain individuals would cease. It worked! ......But it worked too well. The conversation about polygamy was deemed "the last straw" by the forum owner. I was misunderstood as advocating polygamy by posting the article (I certainly was not!) But I dared not contradict the forum owner. When he decided to shut down the forum altogether, many of us were upset....and I was devastated. That was my main source of fellowship. I had made friends there. Many cannot understand how real the fellowship can be on forums and blogs. Many of us are isolated and have no like-minded fellowship of any kind. It is unfortunate that we cannot work out our issues with one another without disfellowshipping. Forum banning is just like getting booted out of a congregation. The rejection is palpable. Forum people are people too! (if I can use the hot-button word "people")

Many of us learn and grow by hearing discussions back and forth on various issues. If there is no opposition, there is no growth. It is nice when discussions can be friendly, but even when they get heated, learning can take place. I am in discussions with atheists on other blogs. Their challenges keep me digging in the Scriptures and apologetics resources and KJV resources for the answers. I am learning as I earnestly contend for the faith.

I hope disputes can be resolved without banning. I hope differing points of view can be expressed here freely so that discussion and learning can take place.

I hope I am not out of line in expressing my thoughts.

Shalom,

Tandi

Sure disputes can be resolved in a spirit of love, truth, forbearance, and kindness. But let me quote again:

This, in my opinion, is not a small matter. It's serious to accuse a brother of being being proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, and causing envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings. He has falsely accused Brother George of perverse disputings and a corrupt mind. And worst of all...destitute of the truth. Listen to those words! I'm not taking up offense for Brother George. He is not a defenseless babe in Christ.

Sister Tandi, to me it is clear that Brother Geologist is accusing a brother of being the things mentioned in 1 Timothy 6. I'm fine when people disagree. But to use the word of God in order to attack the character of another brother "personally" and falsely...stirs my inner man. As difficult as it is, I believe this type of behavior merits that we withdraw ourselves from such a one as a visible reproof and love of the truth.

Re "My Avatar"
 

Aloha sister Tandi,

I am going to try , this one more time, to reason with you because I perceive that you are sincere, but lack some spiritual understanding in this matter.

First of all, although Brandon Staggs (Diligent) is my son-in-law; in the year that I have been on the AV1611 Bible Forums I have never asked him to ban anyone - not one person. In the year that I have been here, I cannot recall ever calling for the banning of someone publicly or openly on the Forum. {Although I may have affirmed the banning of someone AFTER Brandon banned them - It's Brandon's Forum, NOT mine.}

I am not calling for Brandon to ban geologist now, nor will I (we haven't even talked about the possibility). And I certainly wouldn't call for you to get banned - you haven't done anything contrary to the rules of the Forum and you have an absolute right to your opinion, regardless of who I am, or what I may say.

Considering the state of the churches in these times of apostasy, I wouldn't want someone to get banned from the only possible source of fellowship and Bible teaching they may have. To be honest, if the AV1611 Forum were mine, I still wouldn't ban geologist, even though I believe he is gravely mistaken on this issue.

If you will carefully re-read my Posts, both to geologist and to you, I never even "hinted" that either one of you should be banned, and I didn't call for anyone else to "disregard", or "avoid" geologist. I just informed geologist that from here on out "I for one" would disregard anything he had to say and that I would avoid him.

My words:
This issue (Bible Correcting) may seem to be a small matter to you, but to me, next to God Himself, it is of paramount importance. Please notice the difference in how I have tried to intreat you and persuade you - because you haven't denied God's words; you haven't changed them; you haven't added to them; geologist has.

You were touched by geologist's loss of his pet, and in feeling sympathy for him and his situation, you have let your "feelings" interfere with your judgment (women tend to this more than men). While I too was "touched" by geologists loss, my problem was that what he said about his dog was unscriptural, i.e. false. {geologist let his "attachment" to his pet dog "cloud his judgment".}

I only made my Post after you agreed with his comments (your Posts #3 & #11,). Please take notice - my first Post #13 was made AFTER your two Posts supporting geologists unscriptural statements. Brother Tim admonished you with his Post #12:

Brother Tim's words:
Since Brother Tim had admonished you, I saw no need to admonish you any further (I didn't even mention you by name at that juncture), but geologist was another matter. He not only had made false statements, but, because of his tragic loss, he had persuaded you to go along with his false claims - it was at that point that I could no longer "forbear". It was one thing for geologist to believe his speculations, it was quite another for him to be persuading others to his erroneous beliefs.

If you have re-read the Posts in chronological order you will see that my first Post (#13) was a "mild correction" - no name calling; no bombastic statements; no accusations; and no threats. I just simply pointed out that his personal belief about his dog was in error - that's all. If geologist had "just considered the source" and let my comment pass, none of this brouhaha would have occured. So your comment (judgment) is in grave error:

Your statement: It was only AFTER geologist's Post#19, where he denied the truth of Scripture (as plainly stated), and proceeded to correct & change it; and his Post#23 with his snide and condescending attitude towards my wife (as if she were a "novice") that I came in (my Post #25) and took him to task for his blasphemous attitude towards the Holy Scriptures.

Again, if he would have just "considered the source" and just let my reproof pass, this "episode" would have ended - BUT he just had to come back and justify his denial of Scriptural truth; with a "contrived" dispensational explaination that will not "hold water". {Essentially what geologist was claiming was that - Old Testament "truth", is no longer "TRUE" - and that what he now believed, was New Testament "truth", as if there was a CONTRADICTION in the Holy Scriptures!} We do not "rightly divide the word of truth" - by DENYING parts of it, because it comes from the Old Testament! The command is to "RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of truth" - NOT DENY it; CORRECT it; and the CHANGE it!

Either ALL of the Bible is TRUE or NONE of it is! Either we accept the whole of Scripture as being TRUE or IF it is NOT - we should just forget the whole matter and just "eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die".

IF I cannot go to the Book (that I have treasured for over 50 years) with complete confidence - knowing that it is ALL TRUE, I would have given up the "exercise" long ago. And IF a fellow brother in Christ, with whom I am fellowshipping with (I cannot warn, admonish, reprove, rebuke, or correct all Christians everywhere) DENIES, CORRECTS, and CHANGES the words that are in that Book, you may rest assured that I am going to speak up and defend the Holy words of God against the offender - regardless of whomsoever he may be.

I have left churches over this issue; I have been given the "heave ho" from churches over this issue; I have lost good friends over this issue; I have been railed on by Jack Van Impe (1973) over this issue, do you think that I am going to let geologist's blasphemy stand, without my challenging him? If you do - you don't know me.

This is not a matter of "picking sides" in a dispute, this is a matter of righteous judgment - like I have said. Your statement: ""Geologist requested that this conversation be dropped (Renee did as well), but George would not drop it." is in error. Had geologist chosen, at anytime during this dispute, to drop it, I would have been more than happy to oblige. But it was geologist that kept coming back (justifying himself and what he said) - not me. I just kept replying to his false claims each time he made them.

This Post is not meant to castigate you or demean you, but I have a responsibilty to "earnestly contend for the faith"; and if in doing so, someone's "feelings get hurt" - so be it. My wife and I have trained up 7 children in our life together, and we got real used to someone's "feelings getting hurt", but that never deterred us from trying to do the right thing (according to the Bible), and it is not going to deter me now from following God's words (according to the Holy Scriptures - and not according to my feelings or personal opinions).

I determined in my heart long ago (1968) that I will not put up with any Christian (within my sphere of influence) adding, subtracting, or changing the words of God in my Bible. If I will not support those things, what am I to do when a Christian (on this Forum) not only changes and adds to the Holy words of God, but also DENIES the Truth stated therein?

I am appealing to you to think about what has transpired here. Either the Bible is ALL TRUE and can be unconditionally trusted and relied on, or it has contradictions. IF it has contradictions, then it's not worth the paper that its written on. On the other hand - if it as ALL TRUE, then Christians have no business DENYING ("NAY") parts of it (because it comes from the Old Testament), just because they may not understand it, or (worse yet) because they DISAGREE with what it says!

We Christians have been given a CHOICE - we can either believe God's Holy words {preserved for us - inspired, Holy, perfect, and without error in the King James Bible} or we can believe men and their private interpretations; personal opinions; and individual beliefs. Over forty years ago I chose to believe God's word, I don't intend to CHANGE now. I am as commited to the "Truth" of God's word now (even more so), than I was back in 1968 when I found out the truth about the King James Bible.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Hello Brother George,

I sympathize also with your loss......and I think it is impacting your remarks. You were greatly offended that Geologist felt the same way about losing his dog as you did about losing your son.

As a result, I think you are making way too much of his remarks. I do not believe he made a snide remark to your wife or insulted her....and besides he apologized for the misunderstanding there. I do not believe he corrected the Scriptures. He is a King James Bible believer just like everyone here! He was merely making a statement about the power of love that is in complete harmony with the Scriptures.

How about this passage:

Rom 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


Rom 8:36
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Rom 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.


Rom 8:38
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,


Rom 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Someone could say that the Apostle Paul is contradicting Solomon to say, in effect, “love is stronger than death.”

There is plenty of paradox in the Bible. We all must live with the tension of paradox and mystery. None of us are so smart that we have all the answers and perfect understanding. We all see through a glass darkly. [Please note: the word “paradox” does not equal “contradiction”]

You have brought up so many issues in your litany of complaints that I cannot begin to address them all. And it would be fruitless, because you would come back with a zinger of a defense. You are very good at that....and I have commended you in the past for it.

Geologist was asking for mercy...and so am I....can’t we just let this conversation end and move on?

No, you did not call for anyone to be banned. You were not the only one I was addressing in the post. It was Forrest who suggested banning, and People of the Way who seemed to be in agreement.

Brother Tim admonished me for quoting only part of a portion of Scripture to make my point earlier in this thread. Yet authors of the NT text took OT Scriptures out of their immediate context to make relevant points. The ox treading the corn comes to mind.

I do not believe that the Scriptures Geologist quoted to make his last point about withdrawing from the conflict were meant to denigrate you in each and every word. If he had quoted PORTIONS of those Scriptures, he probably would have been accused of taking AWAY from the word of God!

The part about “strifes of words” “railings” and withdrawing from disputes is applicable to this situation however (in my opinion). You did refer to his “humanist drivel” and other insulting remarks and accusations.

So now that I have said all of this, I expect that my words will be analyzed, dissected for error and heresy, and I will pay a penalty for speaking my mind.

Oh well. I tried to make peace.

Shalom,

Tandi

Re: "My Avatar"
 

Aloha sister Tandi,

You said: "I tried to make peace." As far as this matter is concerned, or any more comments about this matter coming from me, and directed at you - you shall have "peace".

I have stated my position as clearly as I possibly could. I am willing to "let sleeping dogs lie" - no pun intended.

Tandi, I must not let this point go by without instruction.

When a portion of the Scriptures is taken for use in point-making, that in itself is not wrong. It does become wrong when the portion by itself does not complete the thought, and becomes even a greater wrong when the apparent meaning of the message is altered.

The verse that you used was 1 Corinthians 2:9, Left on its own, the implication is that we cannot understand what awaits us in future eternity.

However, the next verse, verse 10,completes the thought, letting us know that in fact we can have a glimpse into the unknown future through spiritual eye sight provided us by the Holy Spirit.

I will give you another illustration: If one quotes just a portion of a verse (which has been known to happen) the truth can not only be hidden, but false teaching can be justified. Take Mark 16:16,
I have talked with Church of Christ members who quote only up to the semicolon and then try to prove by those words that baptism is necessary for salvation. I always ask them to show me the verse in their Bible, and then have them read "the rest of the story."

Now you end your post with a prediction:
I don't want you to think that I am analyzing or dissecting, nor most certainly am I demanding payment (though donations are always accepted :D [sorry] ). I am a pastor and teacher. I am compelled to point out a mistake in the use of a verse, or portion thereof, when I see it. The verse that you used is actually quite commonly misused in the same manner as you did.

I agree that we need to pay our respects to Geologist's beloved pet (and as I said at the beginning, I can sincerely sympathize, for I have been there more than once) and let this thread pass from the first page into oblivion.

My Avatar
 

Aloha Geoligist,

I accept your apology. If we knew each other and were talking face to face, this ("misunderstanding"?)would never have happened.

I believe firmly in the ministry of reconciliation:

2Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

George says that if I didn't always forget things and was a better housekeeper I would be the perfect wife. He does say I am the perfect wife for him though.

I hope we can put this thread to rest.

In Christ,
Renee

I AGREE.... :deadhorse:

Bible versus Disney studios.
 

:amen: Brother Tim! Well said.

I've had Beagles/English Springer Spaniels/a Chesapeake Bay Retriever/ and my Heinz 57 Horse over the years, but there is not one passage that says animals will be in heaven. Disney says it, not our Bible!

For about 8 years I worked at 2 Christian Book stores in So.Cal.. It is sad and scaary what some customers/shoppers say. Some of the things that people believe... :rolleyes: I could compile a 5 page essay--- One saturday while I was the Used Book Buyer/Asst. Manager, a fellow came in pretending to shop... but was actually there to "enlighten" me and any customers within earshot with his hyper-Charismatic spirituality. This guy claimed (among other things) that his wife was "The Holy Spirit" ! :eek: I am not making this up. I was hoping that I would have been interrupted by a co-worker or a telephone call, but no. I've talked to Mormons and J.W's and R.C.'s before but this guy... :der: -- never gave any thought nor read any guidebook to prepare to answer someone from extreme-pentecostal kookville.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
.................................................. ................

Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

We know that death was non-existent before the fall of Adam. Christ conquered death. Romans 8:21-2 explicitly states that the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption, and that creation groans within itself, as we do, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body, i.e. the rapture/resurrection.

I don't know if every bug, or earthworm will be resurrected but I believe that animals that do have souls will be resurrected. If we are given the timing of this event I'm not aware of it but I believe this is what scripture teaches. Yesterday, I saw a robin in the road that had probably flown into a moving vehicle and dropped onto the road. His little body was mangled, his wings broken but he was desperately trying to fly to safety as he was blown about by car in front of me. I felt tremendous sorrow seeing that little bird in terror and suffering. The Lord comforted me as I prayed that the next car would put him out of his misery. If I felt compassion over that little robin, how much more does the Lord feel?

I used to fret about whether the Lord was fair in His dealings with all the people that have ever existed, whether he sent children to hell, etc. When I just trusted Him that He is perfect in His ways then He showed me from His Word that the little ones go straight to Him when they die. I have hope of seeing my departed, beloved pets again. Will I be angry at God if I have misunderstood Romans 8:19-23? God forbid. He is just and true in all of his ways.

Would I break fellowship with a christian over the issue? Absolutely not!

Edit: "Romans 8:21-2 explicitly states that the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption, and that creation groans within itself, as we do, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body, i.e. the rapture/resurrection of the rightous." Just a clarification because I didn't make this clear: the whole creation is waiting for the redemption of the bodies of saved people ("our body", not their own animal bodies) when sin and death is done away with.

Of course animals will not be in heaven. If animals are indeed resurrected it would be either the Millennial Kingdom or the New Earth.

Brother Tim,

I don't know the answers to these question for sure, but what is your scriptural evidence that "God re-creates the earth and repopulates it with His creatures just as at the beginning"? How do you know that the animals that repopulate the new earth are newly created creatures and not creatures resurrected into their original form (non-carnivorous or snakes with feet, for example)?

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

Does He mean He makes all things over again, or does He make all things new, like the new man? He also describes the Tree Of Life in the New Earth. Is it the same Tree Of Life made anew or is it a totally different Tree Of Life?

The human beings are new creatures, but they existed before the new earth. Are the animals all newly created or are they resurrected into their original form before the curse? I don't know but I plan to study it because it's interesting to me.

Isaiah 11:1-9 (describing Christ's Millennial Kingdom)

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

This scripture only proves that the animals are changed back to their pre-curse form and function during the millennium. But from this we know that it is not just in the New Earth that animals are changed. In fact, I don't think we're actually told if there are animals in the New Earth.

Another somewhat related thought is whether we are still meat-eaters in the new Earth? I don't think so since no one hurts or destroys in all His holy mountain. Will the church be meat-eaters during the tribulation? Jesus ate fish after He was resurrected.

Luke 24:41-43 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.

We know that during the Millennial Kingdom animal sacrifices will still occur. I believe that Israel, which has become sinless at the second coming of Christ, is commanded to continue some form of God's sacrificial system for the benefit of the gentiles (not the church) that inhabit the earth during this time.

Any comments are welcome.:)

Our resurrection involves the reuniting of our souls/spirits with our bodies. Whilst our bodies are in the grave awaiting our resurrection, our souls/spirits are present with the LORD. For animals to be resurrected, the same must be true for them. I find no Scriptural evidence that animals have souls.

What is a soul? Is it self-awareness? Ability to think and reason and show loyalty and love? Have you ever had a pet that you somehow punished or chastised wrongly and you could discern that they felt betrayed because they knew they were being treated unjustly? Do some animals choose to do some of the things they do? You might have seen this passage coming in any kind of reply as it's really the only one I could use!

Numbers 22:21-38 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? and he said, Nay. Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.

I suppose I risk being branded as a PETA activist or a person who majors on the minors but I'm more like a pit bull; I don't want to let go until I feel I have the answer.

A thought
 

I am not sure, but do not think I will be united with my wonderful pets. I do believe there is something in heaven though from Revelation 19.17

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God:"

I guess we'll know more when we get there, but I do not believe this is figurative or symbolic, so there are at least some animals, although I'm convinced I will not she my Sheba anymore. But she was a blessing while here.

clifford451,

that is a calling of birds to come feast on the dead bodies of the people in the battle with the Lord at the end of the Great Tribulation. it is not about being joined with animals.

The horses Jesus and the Saints come riding in on in Rev have often left me asking some questions. they are not horses that were procreated on earth by earthly steeds I think that is obvious. So when were these horses created? Or are they horses that had died in the past that have been resurrected in perfect horse bodies for the Battle?

You have me chuckling, and wondering, brother! Perhaps heavenly stables? Is there any scripture that precludes a special creation of hundreds of millions of pure white steed for the purpose?

Even I am now ready to let this thread go to it's final resting place!

It is a question I will ask some as to when these horse were created. It is obvious they were not the ones created during the 6 days found in Genesis chapter one.

chette777-
I was wrong to say there were no animals in heaven. There are horses but I don't think they are resurrected horses because there are heavenly horses in Zechariah 6 before any resurrection could have taken place. They are spirits from before the Lord. They seem to be another kind of ministering spirit of the angelic realm. The seraphim of Ezekiel 1 have some animal faces, as well.

Zechariah 6:1-8
And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the LORD of all the earth. The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country. And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth. Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

yeah Those who don't believe in a Gap have a time not answering the question of when did God create these horses. It is because the Bible is not clear on things that were created from Everlasting. But in every reference of these heavenly horses it is obvious they were not earthly horses created anytime during the 6 day creation nor are they from any earthly steed since then. They are a special creation done at some place and time not located on earth or during an earthly time measurement.

Our dogs are a member of our families. They endear themselves to us, with their unwavering love and commitment, and it's such a void, when they die.
I think God gave us domestic pets to show us how WE are supposed to be to others.
Jesus says to love everyone, even your enemies....

I agree with everything you say. I know how hurt I was when I lost my cat 2 years ago. She was an entity, she communicate in her way. I still have my dog, I don;t like to think about losing her.

Grace and peace

Tony

That is true. I'm not sure if we can do more than speculate, for instance, on where the mineral garden was located. I personally think it was on Earth in the very spot that God later created the Garden of Eden for Adam. The real question is: when was the mineral garden created? I think in Genesis 1:1 along with heaven, earth and the angelic host and whatever else we aren't told about.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

1:2a And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

It seems apparent just from comparing these verses that the earth was judged between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Unless I have missed something (which is entirely possible), I can only speculate that it makes sense that God originally gave the earth to Lucifer. When he fell, the earth was destroyed. Maybe by water? Perhaps by more than water? I don't know, but the earth was covered by water in Genesis 1:2.

Also, I am convinced (without being dogmatic) that Romans 8:18-23 assures us that with the lifting of the curse that Adam brought on mankind, as well as on those things that God put under man's dominion, death will be utterly destroyed. How can death be absolutely, completely, utterly defeated if some dead creatures (like animals) remain dead? Those who neglect or reject God's salvation through Christ don't remain dead; they are resurrected, judged, then thrown into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death.

Romans
8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Please note: "And not only they", meaning the creature. They are not the only ones which groan within themselves for the redemption of man, the lifting of the curse of Adam. The animal kingdom, indeed all of creation groans for the redemption of mankind and the lifting of the curse that our race brought on creation. This probably also applies to angelic groaning for sin and death to be destroyed and for all things to be subdued unto the Son who will subject Himself unto the Father who put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians
15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Geologist,

Your story brought tears to my eyes, but it also convicts me that I don't love people enough. After all, regardless of what our opinion is about whether animals are resurrected, we know that they aren't going to spend an eternity in agony and regret over not receiving the Lord Jesus Christ while there was still time. May our love for the lost come close to comprehending God's love for them, and the awful price he paid for all of us to avoid that horrible fate.

I belong to other groups and when one of them loses a pet they always talk about it crossing "The Rainbow Bridge". Comforting maybe to some I guess. I don't know what God has in store for us out in eternity and though I'd love to see my pets again, the Scriptures say:

Ecc. 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Grace and peace friends.

Tony