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Jassy 06-17-2009 07:30 PM

Refuting False Doctrine
 
How do I refute false doctrine from Christians who say that we are "spiritual Israel" and, therefore, must keep the Law, including the Sabbath? This person keeps emailing me and telling me that I'm breaking the Law that we are supposed to be keeping by not observing the Sabbath.

A little background: I used to be a member of the Worldwide Church of God, under Armstrong - but I came to see the incorrectness of what was being taught, the more I read the KJV Bible (rather than their books!), the more God opened up my understanding and I could see their errors.

I tried to search here at the Forum, but it won't allow me to search with a PHRASE, only a WORD. I wanted to search for threads regarding the so-called doctrine that we are "spiritual Israel." I know that is FALSE but I don't know how to prove it. This person keeps sending me emails regarding the LAW and the Sabbath, telling me that if JESUS is in me, then I should be able to PERFECTLY keep the Law, just as He (Jesus) did. I told him that we're not under the Law anymore but under grace, and that he is failing to rightly divide the Scriptures. So, now he is picking and choosing verses from Paul, not understanding the context.

Can anyone help me with refuting that false doctrine?

He uses the following Scriptures to make his case:

Galatians 3:29 - And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and the fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold before the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shall be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


I've tried to show him Romans 6:14 - "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace."

He keeps pointing out Scriptures like Romans 2:13 - "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

And Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


And Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God to every one that believeth.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


And Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


And Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

And Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I'm so tired of him wrestling with the Scriptures, in trying to pull me back under the law! I won't go back under the law, because being under grace is true FREEDOM in Christ.

He is more an SDA - but says he doesn't belong to a church.

Can anyone help me with this?

Jassy

kevinvw 06-18-2009 01:27 AM

Sister, that boy is so blind that he gave you scriptures that completely refute his entire argument.

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The scriptures are pretty clear, we aren't under the burden of keeping the commandments. We're justified and purified by faith and believing in Jesus, and that the commandment to keep the law was never given. The only thing that they found "necessary" was to abstain from idols, blood, and fornication, and they had already agreed that it was by faith, so they weren't even saying those things could affect your salvation.

Another thing, if he's so hell bent on fulfilling the law, then all he has to do is love:

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

You see, that ol' boy tricked you by wresting scriptures out of place:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The law was given for the knowledge of sin so that every mouth would be stopped, and they everyone would be guilty before God. God knew that there was no way that any human being could keep the law. Then comes Jesus, who becomes the righteousness of God manifested, who kept the whole law who will give you that righteousness by grace through faith, believing on the Lord Jesus. You see, even if we could keep the whole law, it wouldn't matter for one blip of a second because we have the one who kept them for us living inside us. Therefore, there will be no boasting of, "I kept the commandments, was buptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holyghost, and did this, this, and this, that....." You see, all that crap doesn't matter. The only reason we should even try to keep them is because we aren't to use our liberty as a cloke of maliciousness, but mortify the deeds of the flesh to exercise godliness.

kevinvw 06-18-2009 02:06 AM

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
Gal 5:12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

I don't think I could make things any clearer than what the scriptures have. Only someone who has put blinders on could miss it.

chette777 06-18-2009 04:23 AM

There are no scriptures that support that the church has taken the place of Israel. A spiritual Jew or Spiritual Israel is still not a replacement of Israel by the church.

Just ask him if he is a jew? he will use the verse that say spiritual Jew spiritual Israel but tell him you did not ask hem that. then ask him again are you of Jewish blood physically? when he says no then you tell him that he are not Israel and that there is no scriptures that make him a Israeli or a Jew.

He is a Gentile salved by grace. spiritual standing before God does not make him or us a replacement of Israel.

Bro. Parrish 06-18-2009 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 22339)
How do I refute false doctrine from Christians who say that we are "spiritual Israel" and, therefore, must keep the Law, including the Sabbath? This person keeps emailing me and telling me that I'm breaking the Law that we are supposed to be keeping by not observing the Sabbath.

"For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness
to every one that believeth." Rom. 10:4

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law WAS our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster." Gal 3:23-25


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 22339)
I'm so tired of him wrestling with the Scriptures, in trying to pull me back under the law! I won't go back under the law, because being under grace is true FREEDOM in Christ.

If you are tired of false doctrine, then don't feel like you have to discuss it. You are correct, you have been set free and there is no reason to prove anything. Listen, I once knew a young Bible student who was always discussing things with the Mormons she worked with. I warned her about it because she was very smart and friendly but not well grounded in the Word, but she kept debating and talking with them. Eventually she started hanging around them socially. Guess what? Eventually she left our church and became a Mormon. :(

This is why the Bible tells us not to even let false teachers in our home. (2 John 1:10)

Jassy 06-20-2009 06:09 PM

Brothers Kevin, Chette and Parrish -

Thank you all very kindly for your feedback. I appreciate all of the Scriptures and the information. Very, very helpful. It was good to know, also, that I would not be remiss in turning my back on this friend - if they continually try to sow dischord.

Jassy

whirlwind 06-22-2009 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 22339)
How do I refute false doctrine from Christians who say that we are "spiritual Israel" and, therefore, must keep the Law, including the Sabbath? This person keeps emailing me and telling me that I'm breaking the Law that we are supposed to be keeping by not observing the Sabbath.


Can anyone help me with this?

Jassy


Sabbath means rest....Christ is our Sabbath, He is our Rest. We keep Him everyday.

Israel is the family of God....His chosen. By belief in Him we are adopted into the family...we become Israel.

CKG 06-22-2009 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlwind (Post 22543)
Sabbath means rest....Christ is our Sabbath, He is our Rest. We keep Him everyday.

Israel is the family of God....His chosen. By belief in Him we are adopted into the family...we become Israel.

Israel is never called the family of God in the Bible and the Bible never says we are adopted into a family.

Luke 06-22-2009 08:44 PM

We do not become Israel.

That's a very unbiblical statement in light of the entire old testament.

tonybones2112 06-22-2009 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 22339)
How do I refute false doctrine from Christians who say that we are "spiritual Israel" and, therefore, must keep the Law, including the Sabbath? This person keeps emailing me and telling me that I'm breaking the Law that we are supposed to be keeping by not observing the Sabbath.

A little background: I used to be a member of the Worldwide Church of God, under Armstrong - but I came to see the incorrectness of what was being taught, the more I read the KJV Bible (rather than their books!), the more God opened up my understanding and I could see their errors.

I tried to search here at the Forum, but it won't allow me to search with a PHRASE, only a WORD. I wanted to search for threads regarding the so-called doctrine that we are "spiritual Israel." I know that is FALSE but I don't know how to prove it. This person keeps sending me emails regarding the LAW and the Sabbath, telling me that if JESUS is in me, then I should be able to PERFECTLY keep the Law, just as He (Jesus) did. I told him that we're not under the Law anymore but under grace, and that he is failing to rightly divide the Scriptures. So, now he is picking and choosing verses from Paul, not understanding the context.

Can anyone help me with refuting that false doctrine?

He uses the following Scriptures to make his case:

Galatians 3:29 - And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and the fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold before the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shall be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


I've tried to show him Romans 6:14 - "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace."

He keeps pointing out Scriptures like Romans 2:13 - "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

And Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


And Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God to every one that believeth.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


And Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


And Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

And Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I'm so tired of him wrestling with the Scriptures, in trying to pull me back under the law! I won't go back under the law, because being under grace is true FREEDOM in Christ.

He is more an SDA - but says he doesn't belong to a church.

Can anyone help me with this?

Jassy

He's SDA Jassy, they are just as deceptive as Mormons are with their "friendshipping" method of "evangelizing'.

In nearly 30 years dealing with cults I've found in most cases the individual is a lost sinner like any biker you want to encounter on the street. If they are saved it's a deal where the heart has believed unto salvation in spite of the mind, which is clogged with cultic doctrines. Jassy, I believe you are Scripturally grounded sister, and able to deal with this person. You have to be. In Acts for example, the sheet God let down in Peter's vision, the SDA will tell you, well, I think that was just a one time thing. If a Christian is not on their toes, they'll be on their nose with these cultists.

I've found little difference in Armstrong followers and SDAs, Armstrong was an ex-SDA. This constant back and forth between you and this person tells me that he probably by this time has given up on converting you, is examining your Scriptural arguments, and is using you as a whetrock to hone his own skills at countering your approach. See, the dispensational approach is something these cultists find difficult in countering. I want to cite the typical "debate" between a Church Of Christ and an IFB and then my own two debates I had with two COC "evangelist/elders" and the result.

In any typical debate between an IFB and COC, the debate will center around Acts 2:38 and water baptism as being necessary for the remission of sins. The COC will say it was efficacious then, it's efficacious now. The IFB will counter with arguing the meaning of the Greek word "for"("eis") meaning not necessarily "for" but "because of" the remission of sins. COC position is that it was operative for remission then, it's operative today.. The IFB position is it was not operative for remission then, it's not operative now. The objective judge of the debate will usually declare it a draw, both sides will declare themselves the winner.

Seeing the issue rightly divided though, we see the Scriptural truth and sound doctrine on the matter: The KJV translators knew exactly what they were doing, "for" means FOR the remission of sins. Water baptism was operative for remission of sins then, it's not operative for anything now.

The most hardened and seasoned COC debater is not prepared for this approach, I found that out in debating two of them. On both nights, at the beginning, I spent less than 90 seconds on Acts 2:38 and concentrated on Jesus Christ's baptism: work of righteousness or unrighteousness, yes or no? Basing that on Titus 3:5, the debate was basically over and I spent two nights each time preaching the cross rather than the water tank and the three Biblical dispensations. The objective moderators of both debates declared me the winner of both, 18 minutes into the first one and 22 into the second one. Here's the kicker:

A memo went out from the local district council of Churches Of Christ stating no more debate offers were to be made to me. I saw the original memo.

Here's my point and advice to you:

You need to map out a program of dispensational teaching that touches not only on the Law, on dispensational teaching overall. The difference between a Jew and Gentile, Israel and the Church, plus in his case the fact that nothing was "restored" in the 1800s, as they claim Ellen White did the SDA teaching.
Ellen White is impeached at the start by the fact that, ladies, I didn;t make this rule, God did, no woman is Scripturally qualified to found a "denomination" or teach a "restoration" of any "lost doctrine". Not Aimee Semple McPherson, not Joyce Meyer, not Gloria Copeland, Jan Crouch, Tammy Faye Bakker. You are, because you are a minister of the reconciliation, an ambassador for Christ, not a church or denomination founder.

He needs to understand the 3 Biblical dispensations: Time past, But now, Ages to come. He needs to know the present Body of Christ is a mystery, never prophesied until reveal to Paul. That's the gospel of Christ, Christ crucified provides our salvation through faith in it apart from the works of the Law. That's Grace, that is what Paul called "my gospel". In teaching the true dispensationalism of Ephesians 2 in 3 dispensations, you are preaching the gospel of the cross for everybody. Not of works lest any man boast.

Jassy you need to not let him have the initiative nor "equal" approach but you must take the initiative away from him and make every one of his thoughts captive for Christ.

If you studied the encyclopedia we wrote for Tandi, you'll see what was said, and can map out your own program in dealing with him, in dealing with anybody. With Tandi we gave her as much Scripture as we could because His words will not return unto Him void, and won't when you deal with this person.

Any further help I can offer just ask sister.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony


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