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Tandi 03-16-2009 12:11 PM

When I was a horse-crazy child, I asked my mom if there were horses in heaven. She said, No.

I was disappointed. I did not think I would enjoy sitting on a park bench listening to harp music for eternity. I was not interested in Heaven if there were no horses. : )

I wish she had shown me Revelation 19 or talked about the Millennial Kingdom with all the gentle animal friends (Isaiah 65). I showed those Scriptures to my 6 year old grandson. He exclaimed, "The future is awesome!"

Since we do not know what awaits...why dampen a child's hopes? A better answer is, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Whatever awaits the redeemed community, it will be awesome! If we knew too much about it, we would not want to stick around on this Earth another day.

Brother Tim 03-16-2009 12:24 PM

Tandi, you have done what too many do with the Scriptures. You stopped with the part that said what you wanted. Now read the next verse:


1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

George 03-16-2009 12:50 PM

Re: " My Avatar"

Originally Posted by geologist (Post 16890)
"My Avatar is a picture of my dog, Zorba. He passed away February 8th after a good life of 12 years. He died in his sleep. I buried him out in the desert.

I had thought about changing my avatar after he passed away, but I have now decided to keep it. His picture reminds me of the love he gave.

Even this morning I still grieve his loss. His spirit has gone back to God and I do hope that, one day, I may encounter his gentle spirit again.

Aloha geologist,

I was just going to let your statement pass (as I do with most of the "speculation" that takes place on the Forum), however, by the different
responses of the brethren (and much speculation) I am constrained to comment:

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

I regret to inform you (despite your feelings for your departed pet), but the Holy Scriptures settle the matter. {for all genuine Bible believing Christians - that is} :)

One of the many differences between man and all of God's other creatures is that our "spirit" is unlike any other "beast" in God's creation; and that is because (unlike the Humanist/Evolutionist teach) man is a "spiritual" being clothed in a physical body (our "Tabernacle").

No animal on earth has a "spirit" like man. For that matter - no animal on earth has a "soul", "heart", "mind", or a "conscience" like man. While we tend to "attribute" these things to them {"anthropomorphism"}, I can assure you that the Scriptures do not support these "feelings" or "beliefs".

Renee 03-16-2009 01:16 PM


Your avatar is cute .
Here are some verses that might comfort you.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Heaven is a new beginning. I was going to quote the verse that George quoted above as that was the first verse that came to mind. I also remembered this verse:

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

I would recomend reading from verse 65:17 through verse 25. Our life on earth will be remembered no more and if we love animals,there will be animals we can pleasure in, in the new Heavens.


Luke 03-16-2009 01:30 PM

Oh man, poor guy. I knew the first response was inevitable.

My question is, does it really matter? Is this the right thread to argue about the spiritual attributes of God's other creations? As George said, it probably would have been best to let this slide for the sake of Geologists emotional attachment. It's hardly a great heresy.

Brother Tim 03-16-2009 01:51 PM

Luke, I agree that this is a poor thread to hijack, but the point is not insignificant. Too often Christians "innocently" add to the truths of Scripture based on emotions. Renee's and George's posts adequately cover the topic, and I am comfortable with the conclusion. If Tandi, Geologist, or others want to discuss it further, then a new thread in another topic group would be better.

stephanos 03-16-2009 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 16900)
This is a troubling statement. It is similar to a song that I heard recently. The chorus was describing heaven as being beautiful because "you are there". I assumed that it was speaking of Jesus, but then I heard the next verse where it talked of the "you" of the chorus walking and talking with Jesus. The song was about a dead loved one.

The truth of the matter is that our praise and adoration and complete focus will be on the LORD Jesus Christ and Him alone. We will not be concerned about who or what else is present there. There is no Scriptural authority for telling a little child that he will see his dead puppy in heaven! Christians have allowed songs written by men to replace, correct, or add to the Word of God.

Ever since I got saved I've longed for the day I'll get to see Freddy (a cat), the best friend I ever had and my old iguana, Gonzo. Wouldn't suprise me if they were waiting for me right now ;)

Peace and Love,

Brother Tim 03-16-2009 05:46 PM

Our church has had a long series of resident cats. It started with Moshe', the one-eyed Siamese mix. Later came Stripe. She had several litters which she trained how to catch the church mice under the observant eyes of our students. One of her kittens came home with us and lived over 20 years. One of her kittens, Sprite, stayed behind and, after she moved on, became the resident mouser. Sprite was a regular in church services, usually sleeping or cleaning herself on the piano or organ, or occasionally under the communion table. You should have seen the look on the faces of visitors when she jumped down out from above the baptistery to join the rest of the members. Now these cats were certainly qualified for a heavenly promotion (better than some of the other members at least). On the other hand, there was Dingcat, Ding for short. She was the greediest, meanest cat we ever had. We lived in the country and had about 20 at the time. When feeding time came we spread the food out on an old picnic table. She would jump up and fight all the others back until she had her fill. That cat was definitely not headed for paradise.

geologist 03-16-2009 11:01 PM


Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 16933)
On the other hand, there was Dingcat, Ding for short. She was the greediest, meanest cat we ever had. We lived in the country and had about 20 at the time. When feeding time came we spread the food out on an old picnic table. She would jump up and fight all the others back until she had her fill. That cat was definitely not headed for paradise.

Good story, thanks for sharing it.

I was astonished this morning to find my post on my departed dog had generated such a doctrinal firestorm. It was a real Job 16:2 moment to go with my morning coffee. <smile>

I'm not going to argue doctrine on this matter, but I will speak what I know in my heart. Animals are little furry people, each with their own individual personality traits, shortcomings and attributes. They too ARE living souls, in their own right. They are capable of love and hate. They can be jealous or angry; they can be loving and nurturing. They can be concerned when you are sick and give comfort. They have even been known to sacrifice their life to save someone they loved.

Now and then, a special little someone will come into one's life. Mine wondered into our housing compound in northern Greece from a nearby sheep herder's camp. He was a tiny puppy with large paws who was more than a bit under-nourished. In a few short months he grew into 100 lbs of boundless energy.

When we transferred to the Island of Sao Tome, off the west African coast near Gabon, he killed rats and guarded our home from intruders.

When 911 happened, and I had to go work in the Middle East, he stayed back in the US with my wife and her aunt. And when it was time for my wife and I to move to Germany, he stayed behind in the US with the aging aunt as a comforter, as the old woman was alone and had previously lost her own old dogs.

When the aunt died, I brought him to Germany, where he went to work with me everyday. He was a friend of the local staff and enjoyed rolling in the snow of the high Alpine meadows when we trekked the mountains of southern Germany.

And here in Kuwait, he would once again go to work with me out in the desert everyday, and would sleep in my office to avoid the 120F outside heat.

He was my best friend. And, although I have owned many animals over the years, he was unique.

The Psalmist says that,...love is as strong as death..." and I say, nay, love is stronger than death. And that is all I need to know to have comfort.

The Lord giveth; He taketh away. I am thankful for His gift.

Tandi 03-17-2009 06:30 AM

Hello Geologist,

What a beautiful story! I agree with everything you said, and can relate. Good thing your comfort comes from the LORD and Scripture and not us miserable comforters here, myself included. : )

You must live a fascinating life. What do you do in Kuwait? I would love to hear more about life in that part of the world. Do you blog?

Also, I have questions you may be able to help me with concerning fossils, geology, etc. Should I ask them here? My Evolutionist friend claims that pieces of amber encasing flies and grasses would have to be fake. He spotted this in the Dominican Republic. His comment:


....there were some pseudo-"amber" fossils with entrapped insects for sale in the markets. They were so obviously fake as evidenced by the presence of grasses and modern taxa of insects. I mean, really, modern flies and grasses present in pre-Cretaceous amber? Maybe it would have fooled a creationist, but, armed with the intellectual refinement and thinking of an evolutionist, I saw right through that forgery.
True? Are there any amber fossils that disprove Evolution or the dating of "millions of years ago?" Couldn't catastrophism after Noah's flood account for fossils?



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