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Gord 04-30-2008 06:45 PM

Were The Early Fundamentalist Kjv Only?
 
http://www.communitybaptistchurch.co...amentalist.htm
Discuss, I'm sure this will spark some colorful debate. :)

bibleprotector 04-30-2008 06:57 PM

The King James Bible was not inspired between 1604-1611.

And truth can be destroyed by mistranslation. That is why we should thank God that we actually have a perfect translation today. I am sure that Mr Joyner and others do not believe in perfect translations, yet they seem to think that truth is in them?!?

MDOC 04-30-2008 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bibleprotector (Post 3830)
The King James Bible was not inspired between 1604-1611.

And truth can be destroyed by mistranslation. That is why we should thank God that we actually have a perfect translation today. I am sure that Mr Joyner and others do not believe in perfect translations, yet they seem to think that truth is in them?!?

Aw.

Php 1:15-18
(15) Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
(16) The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
(17) But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
(18) What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Joh 6:63
(63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 17:17 does not mean the written Word itself contains the truth, because John 14:6 says Jesus (not the written Word) is the truth. The written word conveys the truth, the Word, Jesus. The written Word has no power. Jesus is the Word made flesh, not ink and paper. Ink and paper conveys the truth. The word is powerful, not the ink and paper. Thy Word is truth, not ink and paper. The Word is not the truth; the Word IS truth.

That's why you can get saved from an old newspaper account (or even nothing at all but by the word of Jesus' disciple). And that's why there's power even from imperfect translations like the NASB.

Gord 04-30-2008 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bibleprotector (Post 3830)
The King James Bible was not inspired between 1604-1611.

And truth can be destroyed by mistranslation. That is why we should thank God that we actually have a perfect translation today. I am sure that Mr Joyner and others do not believe in perfect translations, yet they seem to think that truth is in them?!?

He also points out that
Quote:

TRUTH CANNOT BE DESTROYED BY MISTRANSLATION

MDOC 04-30-2008 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord (Post 3843)
He also points out that
Quote:
TRUTH CANNOT BE DESTROYED BY MISTRANSLATION

I agree with that, because of Philippians 1:18: "What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."

And because the truth is spiritual, and the written word in physical realm may be destroyed, but not in the spiritual. That's why Jesus is the Word (the truth) and not the written word.

sophronismos 04-30-2008 09:36 PM

Many quote Psa 11:3 "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" in an alarmist sense, as if it was all like "Oh no! the foundations are being destroyed! What will we do?" Well, it is like that, until the next verse. "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men." From frantic chicken-little the sky is falling to calm comfort in the knowledge that God is own his throne and he is in control. But (some might say) the question remains, "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" in an alarmist sense, as if it was all like "Oh no! the foundations are being destroyed! What will we do?" The answers, "The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men" indicates that he will not let the foundations be destroyed. They may be hidden from masses at large, but they will not be destroyed, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Mat 7:14) In other words, although "truth can be destroyed by mistranslation" in a "local" sense, not in a universal sense, for "The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant." (Psa 25:14)


PS: Since I quoted Matthew 7:14, I must point out that "strait" there is "strait" not "straight." It means restrictive like a strait-jacket or a strait as in a narrow channel of water. Many people do not realize this, and when quoting the verse from memory spelll it with a gh.

MDOC 04-30-2008 09:36 PM

This is the part I do not agree with, under "Conclusion":
quote:
One should never say, "The Bible is our sole rule for all matters of faith and practice," if they contend for the inspiration of any translation. For that is not taught anywhere in any Bible.
unquote

Diligent 04-30-2008 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDOC (Post 3846)
And because the truth is spiritual, and the written word in physical realm may be destroyed, but not in the spiritual. That's why Jesus is the Word (the truth) and not the written word.

(Emphasis mine)

What a bunch of unscriptural garbage. You essentially have the written word relegated to the status of withering grass.

What do you think is being talked about here?
1 Peter 1:24-25 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
If the word is being preached it is obviously not just in some spiritual realm as you appear to be claiming. You also fall into the trap of confusing the written word with the incarnate Word.

Moreover, Christ explicitly proclaimed the undestroyable nature of the written word:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Obviously, all is not yet fulfilled, unless you buy into some strained sense of prophecy that places every prophecy in the Bible as already fufilled.

And before you go off and say something ridiculous like "the law endures in the spiritual realm not in written form" I'd like you to tell me just what in the world you think Jesus was talking about when he said THE BOOK OF [INSERT NAME HERE] and READETH:
Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Lu 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Now explain to me what Jesus, the Lord, God in the flesh, the incarnate Word, was doing appealing to physical written words if those words are not indestructible and perfectly preserved and not themselves truth? Care to find for me anywhere in the Bible where your view of the written word -- that it can wither and fade and be destroyed -- that only Jesus, not Scripture, is Truth -- is proclaimed?

Heh -- I can. You might start with Jehudi!

Diligent 04-30-2008 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDOC (Post 3846)
That's why Jesus is the Word (the truth) and not the written word.

PS: This uncompromisingly absurd statement is utterly refuted by any cursory reading of Psalm 119.

MDOC 04-30-2008 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bibleprotector (Post 3830)
The King James Bible was not inspired between 1604-1611.

Are you a fundamentalist? :D


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