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-   -   The Church with no power (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101)

Pastor Mikie 03-04-2008 06:39 PM

The Church with no power
 
Something that has plagued the church throughout its history is being dead or dying. There were times when the church was alive with power, and other times when it was nothing more than a religious gathering.

People are looking for more than philosophies and hype. The want the "real-deal". They want to have more than religion. They want something that is life-changing.

I've tried to get into discussions in different threads and forums and it seems when it is discovered I'm a Pentecostal, I get "pounced on" by those who do not believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit being active today. I'm going to put a Scripture out there and let anyone who desires comment on it. I'm sure there will be plenty said. I personally believe those who don't believe that the gifts are active in this dispensation are still my brother and sister if they have believed the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Pastor Mikie 03-04-2008 06:40 PM

BTW: I'm not implying this Scripture applies to non-pentecostals.

jerry 03-04-2008 08:29 PM

That verse is referring to lost religious people - having a form of salvation, but no real power behind it. Truly saved people have the power of the Holy Spirit working within them.

jblm1611 03-04-2008 10:26 PM

Losing the real maening
 
Pastor Mikie,
When one who comes on this forum and people find out what church they go to whether it's baptist, pentecostal, catholic, methodist, nazarene, etc. Though most here believe the KJV to be the infalliable Word of God, we might judge one to be wrong for what they believe. Yes there are things that I do take a stand for according to the Word. Do I know it all, no. But for me to get caught up defending the KJV, I and we can lose sight on the real message and that is to please God and win souls for Christ. No matter how hard I try to understand somethings in God's Word. I will never arrive and know it all. All I can ask is the Holy Spirit just show me a little more than I had yesterday. This forum here, I can stand up for the things I believe in, but I can also learn to, if I keep a teachable spirit.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

God Bless,
James

Pastor Mikie 03-05-2008 08:05 AM

I'm hoping to get a discussion going, because the verse, to me, has to do with people with "less-than-pure" motives getting into the church and draining the life out of people. Even though I'm a Pentecostal, it sickens me to walk into a church, see people give others a feigned "God Bless You", speak perfect "christinanese", howler, jump up and down, act all spiritual, quote some Bible verses, then, when they leave the building, stand outside the door and gossip, act all cute and flirty (to varying degrees), have no idea what the sermon was about, act mean as a snake.....you know what I''m talking about.

There have been times I've just wanted to stay home and not bother with church at all. But then I come to my senses. I realize I can stay home and be all critical and angry. Or, go to church with the mind-set of giving (like my wife says, "live to give") and not just receiving. I desire to be part of the solution.

The sad fact is, in all my years as an itinerate preacher, the majority of churches we've ministered in were cold, dead and religious gatherings (just playing church).

Prayer and a move of God is the ultimate answer, but, what about our part?

jerry 03-05-2008 08:09 AM

We need to make sure we ourselves are not personally guilty of going through the motions - and if so, get it right.

When others see the Holy Spirit at work in and through us, they will be encouraged and exhorted to also have a genuine walk with the Lord. When they see us with our plastic smiles and outward show, it just reassures them that they can also go through the motions and be okay (in their own minds, though of course not with God).

lei-kjvonly 03-05-2008 11:39 AM

Exactly Jerry! As the Bible says "man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh on the heart." I don't think we can force people to have a sincere heart towards God. It's our job to serve God with all our strength and with all our heart, and through being a testinmony and preaching the Word, God can deal with those that have a "fake" heart towards Him. I believe we can preach about the "false" heart, but when it comes down to it, we have to understand it's between them and God.

mgc1952 03-05-2008 03:47 PM

Hi Mike,

I think the verse in question deals with the fact that there will be some who will look godly, but they have not let the power of God truly work in bringing them to repentance and truly let the power of the gospel change them from who they were.

That is why there are dead and dying churches. They have bought into an easy believism. Since so much of the church can look like the world today they think that salvation does not cost them a true change.

When the apostles became followers of Jesus it cost them something. It cost them their jobs. It cost them who they had been as Jesus began to work on them in the areas of their character.

The power of the gospel, its agent in our lives is the Holy Ghost. If we don't let the Holy Ghost work on us we will only have the outward form. The power of God, the power of Jesus is the Holy Spirit at work in us, empowering us for change as long as we are willing to change.

I'm a fellow pentecostal, but to tell you the truth I have gotten tired of the labels. If somebody asks me what I am I say a Christian. And I didn't say that as a put down. I am just (a preacher disabled and on the sidelines for now) tired of the labels.

God bless to all,

Mark

Pastor Mikie 03-05-2008 05:48 PM

Welcome MGC1952. I see you are new here.

I don't like the labels either. I pastored a Souther Baptist church (interim) for 16 months before anyone but the board knew I was a Pentecostal. I told the board before they asked me to become their Pastor, but they didn't care. It never really was an issue until the former pastor found out. He and I were friends until he found out I was Pentecostal. Then he treated me like I had the plague. I thought that was a little hypocritical of him since he had become an alcoholic. The reason it wasn't a problem with the board was because neither my wife nor I made an issue of it. We were there to Preach Jesus Christ. If anyone asked me, though, I told them the truth. It was what I considered to be a "deacon possessed church" and it was dying because of it. Even the SBC knew I was Pentecostal and they weren't concerned.

Before that, I Pastored an Assembly of God church (interim) and it was in the same condition: a possessive board.

I've found that people are people no matter what label they have. Our behaviour is, unfortunately, how the world judges Christianity. The Lord is truly good, but not all those who claim to be His are. That is a challenge.

fundy 03-06-2008 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie (Post 1383)
Welcome MGC1952. I see you are new here.

I don't like the labels either. I pastored a Souther Baptist church (interim) for 16 months before anyone but the board knew I was a Pentecostal. I told the board before they asked me to become their Pastor, but they didn't care. It never really was an issue until the former pastor found out. He and I were friends until he found out I was Pentecostal. Then he treated me like I had the plague. I thought that was a little hypocritical of him since he had become an alcoholic. The reason it wasn't a problem with the board was because neither my wife nor I made an issue of it. We were there to Preach Jesus Christ. If anyone asked me, though, I told them the truth. It was what I considered to be a "deacon possessed church" and it was dying because of it. Even the SBC knew I was Pentecostal and they weren't concerned.

Before that, I Pastored an Assembly of God church (interim) and it was in the same condition: a possessive board.

I've found that people are people no matter what label they have. Our behaviour is, unfortunately, how the world judges Christianity. The Lord is truly good, but not all those who claim to be His are. That is a challenge.

Hi Pastor Mikie,

Ok, I am going to make an observation here, but I want to assure you I am not attacking you personally. I wish to make this observation from a doctrinal point of view only.

My observation is this, I find it amazing that a southern Baptist congregation could sit and listen to a pentacostal preacher for 16 months and not notice.

In my opinion,this church was dying because;

a) the congregation was so lacking in doctrinal foundation that they couldnt tell a Pentacostal from a Baptist.

b) None of the deacons were well founded enough to pastor the flock until a new shepherd was found, and seemingly, were prepared to compromise for the sake of expedience.

I am not setting out to be offensive here, just pointing out the fact that Pentacostals and Baptists have very different doctrinal viewpoints in some areas, differences that would be patently obvious to any member of our independent Baptist church.

As for the disdaining of "labels"...that viewpoint is a little too ecumenical for my liking.

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

Simply by obeying the above command, we are going to be labelled.


Fundy


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