Thank you for your prayers as well, sis Jennifer! Until I finally have transportation (working on getting a vehicle again!) and can locate a local church that preaches truth, this forum has become my "church." It may not meet all of the requirements of a church - but it is educational and edifying in the Word of God, and provides wonderful fellowship with believers.

I feel so blessed to be a part of this forum! Praise God for leading me here!

Your sister in Jesus Christ,
Karen

:amen: and :amen:

Church Governance and individual discernment
 

I very much appreciate the remarks on church apostasy by George in post #4, and how it begins with people blindly following devious church leadership. I have heard Hebrews 13:17 "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves; for they watch over your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: For that is unprofitable to you." used in a way that practically demands unthinking blind mental submission to church leaders and makes individual discernment appear as a sin. I know this is an extremely unbalanced view which ignores the commendation of the Bereans for checking the Apostle Pauls' preaching with scripture. I wonder if you have any thoughts on how to respond to this type of assertion (which is usually implied and promoted by psychological force rather than explicitly stated so that it would be subjected to rational thinking).

Re: "Church Governance"
 

Aloha brother Bill,

Thank you for your kind remarks. :)

What we are dealing with, both outside of and within the churches is HUMANISM! Humanism has permeated every facet of our society and culture, so that no matter how you respond, it is practically impossible to convince a Humanist (lost or saved.) of anything! :(

Humanism has ONE "END" in mind - to make everyone "think alike", or to put it another way, Humanism's ultimate "GOAL" is to make everyone CONFORM TO THE WORLD!

Humanists will use whatever "methods" or "tactics" that they can get away with in order to make us CONFORM: Whether it be FEAR, or INTIMIDATION, or COERCION, or FORCE; and whether it be in in the government; in the media; in the schools; in the work place; in the home; or in the churches. "Education" and Psychiatry/Psychology are the main "means" to that end, and have been at the forefront of Satan's grand "conspiracy" for over 100 years.

Instead of America being "the land of the free", America has become the land of the Sophists (lost & saved). And as such, it is extremely difficult respond to people who have embraced "false doctrine", simply because they have NO interest in the "TRUTH" of God's word. {Try to present the word of God in a government school; or in the media; or in the Universities and Colleges, and see how far you will get. The word of God cannot get a fair hearing in all of these institutions and many more. That's Humanism! Humanism will SUPPRESS free speech and the free exchange ideas, wherever it is in CONTROL!}

When dealing with Humanists (lost or saved), always keep in mind that Humanists always practice a "DOUBLE STANDARD" (in other words - they are HYPOCRITES)! They can treat you with disdain, ridicule your beliefs, and question your motives, but if you DARE to say anything, either in defense of yourself, or your beliefs, or if you are bold enough to ATTACK them or their beliefs, the first thing they will do is "CRY FOUL", and act like they are the "offended party".

Humanists (lost or saved) are "subtle" and "devious" in their ways and "disingenuous" and "insincere" when they speak, and so while you are sincerely trying to show them the truth and possibly the error of their ways, they are playing "word games" trying to trap you in your sayings.

If you encounter these kinds of people (lost or saved), it is an "exercise in futility" to try to reach them or persuade them; the best thing you can do (when you discern that you are dealing with such a person) is to AVOID THEM!

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.