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Luke 03-15-2009 11:06 PM

Behemoth and Leviathan, although the former is not declared to be unique, and Adam may well have named it, and the latter is Satan's serpentine form.

geologist 03-15-2009 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 16887)
Behemoth and Leviathan, although the former is not declared to be unique, and Adam may well have named it, and the latter is Satan's serpentine form.

What about Dragons? It seems that every culture on Earth has a dragon in its mythology.

Luke 03-16-2009 12:07 AM

Dinosaurs (which was a word only invented in the 1800's, prior to this they were called dragons), or perhaps Satan or other devils have physically manifested themself at various times (as he did in Eden).

Bro. Parrish 03-16-2009 08:40 AM

It seems that God prepared two creatures for special purposes in the book of Jonah, a great fish/whale creature and also a worm...

Now the LORD had PREPARED a great fish to swallow up Jonah. - Jonah 1:17

But God PREPARED a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered. - Jonah 4:7

Winman 03-16-2009 02:39 PM

Quote:

Now the LORD had PREPARED a great fish to swallow up Jonah. - Jonah 1:17

But God PREPARED a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered. - Jonah 4:7
Bro. Parrish, this isn't creation here. The primary definitions of "prepared" in both verses is

1) to count, reckon, number, assign, tell, appoint, prepare

I believe the meaning here would be to assign or appoint. So God spoke to the whale and the worm and gave them assignments. That's how I see it anyway.

Who was it that said God created animals in Adam's presence? I don't agree with that, the fowls and the moving creature that hath life in the waters were created on the fifth day.

Now, "the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind" were created on the sixth day like man. I personally believe Gen 1 is in chronological order (first day, second day etc.), so I believe the animals were made before man.

Gen 2 is not necessarily the account of a specific day. I personally think it covers an unspecified period of time, maybe even weeks, months, or even longer. I think it would have been very difficult for Adam to name all the animals in a single day, there are lots of animals in the world, and there were many more then than today. God could easily do this, but this is not an easy task for a man. This may have taken Adam quite some time to do this.

And Geologist, you criticized me for bringing up the Gap Theory, but then you brought it up yourself later. :)

Luke 03-16-2009 03:34 PM

I said it, because it's right there in the Bible

Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This happened in day 6 IN the garden. It is a seperate event to day 5 in Genesis 1. Adam was already alive here in 2:19. The rest of the earth had animals all over it by day 6. This is IN THE GARDEN.

verse 18 makes it very clear that it was AFTER adam was created, and these were created either in front of Adam, or very near to him.

Winman 03-16-2009 03:55 PM

Luke

Not to argue, but it has never come across that way to me. If God created the animals in Adam's presence, then why does it say he "brought" them to him?

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


I believe God created the animals on the fifth and sixth day, when he brought the animals to Adam could have been sometime later.

Now, saying that, in Gen 2:18 God says "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him"

Then in Gen 2:19 it says God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.

Then Gen 2:20 says Adam gave names to the cattle, the fowl of the air, and to all the beasts of the field, but there was not found an help meet for Adam.

Then Gen 2:21-22 says God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, took one of his ribs, closed up the flesh, and made woman.

But this is not a contradiction of Gen 1. I do not believe Gen 2 is written in chronological order like Gen. 1. Gen 1 mentions the first day, second day, and so forth. So it is describing the order of creation.

Gen 2 is supplying further detail about God's creation, but not necessarily in chronological order. I believe the fowl for instance were created on the fifth day in Gen 1, when they are mentioned after Adam in Gen 2. Then sometime later, and there is no way to know for certain how long that period is, God brought the fowl to Adam to name. And I don't think you can say it was animals and fowl in the garden only, in Gen 2:20 it says "all" the beasts of the field.

Bro. Parrish 03-16-2009 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winman (Post 16914)
Bro. Parrish, this isn't creation here. The primary definitions of "prepared" in both verses is

1) to count, reckon, number, assign, tell, appoint, prepare

I believe the meaning here would be to assign or appoint. So God spoke to the whale and the worm and gave them assignments. That's how I see it anyway.

LOL, well that's not the way I see it but you may be right!
That's why I specifically wrote "special creatures that God MAY have "whipped up" or "specially made." (see post no. 30)

However let's keep an open mind for a moment...

The Bible does not say God "spoke" to those creatures.
The Bible does not say God "assigned" anything.
The Bible does not say God "appointed" anything.

Those are your words, not the superior wording in the KJV bible.
Here's an old tip I learned along time ago; always determine what it SAYS before you try to determine what it MEANS, brother.

The Bible says God PREPARED those creatures!

Try this brother Winman:
Go ask a group of 10 year olds what it means to PREPARE a hamburger. :)

See how many come back and talk about "assigning" or "appointing" the hamburger."

See how many come back and say "count, reckon, number, assign, or tell" the hamburger. Even a 10 year old would know what the word means.

I think Luke is 100% correct on the Genesis passages.
God had the "formula" for making all the animals, he already made them out of WATER once. This time he did not need to make them "male and female" He only had to make one of each and they were FORMED out of the GROUND at what is clearly a different time. I'm not saying the naming event took place in a day, I agree with you that it could have been longer. But it is CLEARLY not the same time as the creation with water. Argue on if you want, but it won't change what is written in plain English brother. And with all the animals accounted for it seems we may be straining at gnats. :)

Winman 03-16-2009 04:48 PM

Bro. Parrish

You make some good points. Maybe my problem is that I was a Boy Scout, and our motto was "Be Prepared". And I tell you, that motto has truly helped me throughout my life. :)

Now, in this case, prepared means to be ready at all times for any situation that might occur.

And I read prepared in Jonah the same way. God had sent that whale and worm to be at that given place at that given time. Now, I don't know how God communicated with these animals, so that is why I said "spoke". However God did it, the whale and the worm got the message and were there to get the job done. I grew up on the ocean, and you don't see whales that often. But there was one right there when they threw Jonah overboard. And it's a good thing, Jonah most likely would have drowned.

Bro. Parrish 03-16-2009 08:52 PM

The Boy Scouts are a good group, you can learn a lot from them.
As for Jonah, I always figured he did drown inside the creature, because he died and went to hell. Otherwise he could not be the type of Christ's death, burial and resurrection in the OT.
Of course, that too is debatable.


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