Death Penalty - For It? Against It?
 

You may have read about the recent high-proile case of Brian Nichols here in Atlanta. He received life without parole instead of the death penlty because the jurors could not come to a unanimous decision on putting him to death. There is no doubt as to whether or not he committed the crimes.

What does this board say about capital punishment?

If you're for it, or against it, please cite Biblical passages supporting your belief.

I happen to be for it if the guilt is indisputable, but it's a personal belief based on my own personal convictions.

Great question brother, please see below from my archives:


CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

God himself installed capital punishment in Genesis 9:6.

Note, this had nothing to do with Christianity or even the Mosaic law, it was before the law.

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Gen. 9:6

People have funny ideas about who God will kill. God has a love/hate relationship with sinners. Scripture says God is love, and God loves the world (John 3:16) but it also says the Lord is a man of war. The truth is, God is omnipotent, He can and will kill anyone at any time He wants. He also killed almost everyone on Earth at one time as shown in Genesis 6, but it should be noted this was a result of a population that was filled with violence:

"And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." Gen. 6:13

Please note: After the flood, the first thing God told Noah (while still on Ararat) was, "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." This installment of capital punishment was important and it is still important today.

Please note: God provided a way to avoid this terrible judgement. (only one way, see John 14:6). If people would have repented, God would have had Noah build more arks!

Lastly, Jesus came to Earth as the Lamb of God last time, but next time He will return as the Lion of Judah, and He will utterly destroy the nations that rise up against Israel! (Rev. 19)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...20;&version=9;

More below from Fred Thompson, sorry for the cut and paste...


Common sense on capital punishment

By U.S. Senator Fred Thompson, PatriotPost.com

"Our country seems to be able to come to the right conclusions over time, even when we’re being told over and over again that we're wrong. When I say the right conclusions, by the way, I mean conclusions supported by honest research and real evidence. I've got a good example -- capital punishment.

For decades, the self-proclaimed smart kids have been telling us that the death penalty just doesn't work. The people with the top jobs in academia and the news business have scoffed at the American people's insistence that executions prevent murder.

On the very surface of the issue, it would seem pretty obvious that an executed murderer can't murder anybody else -- but we’ve been told that we were wrong even about that. You've undoubtedly heard the old saw about executions actually motivating murderers to kill, presumably because what murderers really want is attention. The argument is a stretch, demanding that we believe that killers aren’t deterred by the consequences of being caught and executed. Without evidence, though, it's hard to rebut.

In the last few years, however, serious researchers have applied themselves to finding the evidence. Criminologists and economists have gathered and analyzed a mountain of data, and many of them were surprised by what they found. Now, they’ve published papers in respected academic journals that are establishing an unexpected consensus.

The reliable two-thirds of Americans who have always supported the death penalty probably wouldn't be surprised to find out that study after study has shown that the death penalty deters murders. Some studies show really dramatic effects, with each execution of a murderer deterring as many as 18 or more murders. That’s according to Emory University professors, who found as well that delaying execution also leads to further murders. Most studies have concluded that some number of murders between three and 18 are prevented for every application of capital punishment.

I guess the most surprising thing to me was seeing an article about these findings just a few weeks ago by the Associated Press. The most interesting quote was from a well-known opponent of capital punishment who looked at the evidence and said, “Abolitionists or others, like me, who are skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the death penalty."

Certainly, the use of DNA evidence to clear long-held prisoners from murder charges proves that we need to be more careful about handing out death sentences; and science must be used even more and earlier in the criminal process to protect the innocent and convict the guilty. However, these studies are important in properly analyzing the effect of the death penalty."
http://patriotpost.us/

That's a good piece Bro. Parrish.

I am all for Capital Punishment.
From Dr. Shelton Smith:
http://www.swordofthelord.com/online...tRevisited.htm

Numbers 35v16
And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him. 20 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die; 21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.

We have a case in Iowa,man kills 5 of his family members:
http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2...tler-on-trial/
I don't believe in life sentences.Seems like they always try a drug/alcohol defense.

I am for capitol punishment because God's Word is for it.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (Romans 13:1-7 KJV)

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Your condition that the guilt be indisputable is not just your opinion. I remember a biblical requirement for guilt to be established by two or more independent testimonies; I don't have a Bible and can't remember the location or context right now. I saw a summary of the results of wrongful convictions compiled by the Innocence Projact that uses DNA testing to review previous convictions. They found that mistaken convictions had one thing in common: Only one testimony was relied on. The head man in the innocence project is Jewish, Barry something. He was in the 1st O. J. trial. I wonder if his efforts have a basis in religious beliefs.

Re: " Death Penalty - For It? Against It?"
 

Aloha all,

The Apostle Paul has put the issue in perspective for Bible believing Christians:Paul stated that: There are offenses that are "worthy of death", and if he were guilty of any of those offenses, he would "refuse not to die"!

So the Bible is real clear about "Capital Punishment" (with "safeguards") BEFORE the Law; DURING the Law; BEFORE Calvary; and AFTER Calvary. There are OFFENSES worthy of death! Murder being the foremost - but there are others also.

Thanks, George -- and to everyone who contributed. I was especially grateful to see citings from the New Testament. So many I know assert that Old Testament law (pre birth of Christ) is no longer applicable as we now live under *Grace* (New Testament) and not *Law.* Once when I cited an OT passage, someone I know replied with "and do you sacrifice live animals at the altar as well??"

Hey, George ... I lived in Broken Arrow for 8 years. Loved it there!

:)

Aloha brother,

I'm always happy to be of service to the brethren. And appreciate your kind words.

I left the mainland U.S.A. in 1958 and lived in Hawaii from that time until December 7, 2008. It's quite an adjustment (weather wise), other than that, we are with family and loved ones who care, and so we'll "hibernate" - until it's safe to go outside. (or until we get hungry!) :peep:

I will say this though - Hawaii is known for its "Aloha", and, so far, the folks I have run into here are both more courteous and considerate than even those in Hawaii. :)

That would be the Midwest, brother; don't expect that farther north or east. I'm from Missouri, sojourning in Ohio, and you wouldn't believe how rude the average person around here can be.

You'll find that to be even more prevalent the closer you get to the great state of Texas. :wave:

:amen: I wonder where that places abortion?

Ac*22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.


Doesn't this verse here make this issue a little more complicated?

Brian

I believe, for reasons that have been precisely stated in this thread, that capital punishment is Biblical. There's no doubt about it in my mind, and I would not oppose it, except in cases of mistaken guilt which were glaringly egregious. In principle, I would never oppose it.

However, in my country, the criminal justice system is a monstosity and an abortion of "justice." Innocent men are imprisoned (and, presumably, executed, although rarely), while malefactors run free. I have nothing but contempt for the United States Department of Justice, whether administered by Democrats or Republicans. A Republican administration gave us Ruby Ridge; a Democratic administration gave us Waco and Elian Gonzalez. But that's getting a bit far afield....

The bottom line is Romans 13. If the early Christians could submit to Nero, I can submit to Bush and Obama. And that includes accepting the Biblical principle of capital punishment, even when imperfectly administered.

When is this "aloha" greeting going to be changed to, oh say, "howdy!?!:yo:"

Simple: since the vast majority of Abortions are pre-meditated murder for hire, I think the doctors who have abandoned their Hippocratic Oath to perform them should be subject to a fair trial and capital punishment. Of course, until the law changes that won't happen, but personally I would have no problem with the state "pulling the switch" on Tiller the Killer, who by his own count, has performed over sixty-thousand abortions, more here:
http://www.dr-tiller.com/

Again, a waste of time and resources, If the death penalty were to be worth while, we woold not have to spend so much money on it. The thought of being put to sleep like an animal is not very intimidatiing.

I like the "aloha" thing! It makes me feel real tropical!

In fact, I'm hoping to get a grass skirt for Christmas. My hula prowess is widely known....

You could do what I do. Aloha y'all! ;)

Aloha brother VR,

I'm with you 100% on your comments.

With the SUBSTITUTION of Humanistic (read Psychiatric and Psychological) principles and precepts (since the early 1900's) for Biblical principles and precepts that were the basis for most of the Law in America (from its founding to the the "War between the States"), "Justice" has become a joke and a farce in our Judicial System! :eek:

I do not look for it to get "any better" soon. I believe that the U.S.A. is in such moral and spiritual decline, that only God's intervention can prevent us from joining all of the nations that have preceded us - on the "Trash Heap" of History.

Brother Scott Swart quote:
Whether it is: "a waste of time and resources" is besides the point brother. God's word teaches that the "death penalty" for certain heinous crimes is not only "appropriate", but necessary (that is according to the Scriptures). If the death penalty were to be used appropriately (with Scriptural "safeguards"), it would DETER CRIME!

Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.

The problem in the U.S.A. is we have made a mockery of swift justice and so we suffer from those criminals and miscreants who have learned to "use" the system for their advantage.

It's not that the "death penalty" is a "waste of time" - it's that we no longer apply it according to Scriptural precepts and principles, and so we suffer from some of the most violent criminals in the world, who sometimes "get away with murder" and use the system to further their wicked and evil ways. :eek:

Failure to follow the words of God always leads to chaos, confusion, and anarchy.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

The above verses apply to nations also:

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

:rapture:

George, do not get me wrong on this point, I believe in the the death penalty as laid down in God's Word. "But" it costs more in one year to support someone in prison than most God fearing people earn in a year, add 20 or 30 years to that and show me the justice in that.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I follow you...

I have spent some time around prisons, one of my dearest friends was a prison superintendent for 25 years. Here in my state they can always choose the electric chair, but either way I assure you brother; the thought of stepping out into eternity is never an easy thing to deal with for a man who has spent his days killing innocent people.

I don't think capital punishment is about "intimidation," I think it's about justice and placing a value on human life, ergo Genesis 9:6.

I hear you on that brother, and agree. So, it seems to me the cost of the PENALTY is not nearly as much as the idea of keeping them in prison for 30 or more years at tax payer's expense. So it's not really the death penalty that is the waste of time and resources, it's the LACK of the death penalty and the legal system around it. Am I reading you right?

When we originally had the death penalty in this country, specifically New England, it was law that no more than three days would pass before it done.
Today, a person can go to prison for 20-30 years before the sentence is carried out.
The longer we wait, the less threatening the sentence seems, especially to the flesh.
If there is no immediate consequence to our actions, we can continue to feel that there will be no eternal consequence to our actions.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Seems like it would be very hard to give someone a fair trial in three days... criminal cases are not always simple. I think what we are seeing today is an endless system of appeals, to me this is a reflection of our legal system and liberal judges, not a failure of capital punishment.