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Alas, it appears that some of the Bible correcting pink panty brethren have taken it upon themselves to use this issue to bash Bro. Gipp and the KJV:
http://www.fundamentalforums.com/bib...confusion.html OOOPS, sorry Greektim, did I "drop a bomb" on you? :rolleyes: |
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Do you believe a man needs formal qualifications to be apt to teach and preach the word of God? |
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1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom. |
You did nothing to me. In no way did I mention anything to do w/ Gipp's degree in relation to the video that I posted (which was only posted b/c I found it around the same time about this discussion of Gipp). I will agree that there are some on the FFF that are un-Christlike. But I never maligned him as you say. So no worries.
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It seems Timmy still hasn't even figured out what the Word of God is yet, much less who is qualified to teach. Timmy quote: "I am extremely against the KJV only view." |
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As far as I am concerned, I don't care whether a Bible college or seminiary is accredited or not. I attended one that wasn't accredited at the time but in the 20 years since, has gotten accredited. Makes no difference to me as long as they have a sound doctrinal statement and have integrity to teach according to that doctrinal statement. I think it is great that a church would have its own Bible school. In my opinion, that would be a great function of the local church. As far as your concern as to my IQ compared to yours, I am not sure of what you mean by that or the spirit behind it. Pastor Pat |
The FFF are a bunch of fools. Almost every last one of them. I got my problems I know, but I don't pretend I don't.
They won't face the actual doctrine at all.. Do they want some ammunition to actually mock him about? Well, have a read of his commentary on the book of Acts. I won't say exactly what is in it that they will rant and rave about, but they will find something BIG! (If I do mention is specifically, they will all just quote me, even though I've never read it. Gipp told me about it over breakfast one morning and said all his notes on this particular view of his were in his book on Acts). There argument goes like this Gipp got his degree from PBI. Ruckman runs PBI. Ruckman is weird. Sam Gipp is weird. His degree is weird. Everything he writes is weird. Let's disregard it all because of that. If we can make people THINK he is bonkers, they won't actually read anything he wrote, but instead, copy and paste from me or someone else to support their reasoning. It's what they all do with Ruckman. Test it. Start a thread on Ruckman on the FFF... say "Can I please have the address to Peter Ruckman's Bookstore Website". In 5 seconds, you'll have a bunch of parrots posting David Cloud's "expose" of Black is Beautiful, even though the thread had nothing to do with BiB. I bet half of them own Lawrence Vance's "The Otherside of Calvinism". Vance was a PBI grad as well. |
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In general, in the Southern Baptist Convention, people look at the Master of Divinity degree as the professional qualification of a full-time pastor. In the land of the hirelings, if you don't have a degree, you're not getting a decent church-job. Inquiring about the education of an opponent on a site which advocates a position you are extremely against can look like an "in" to malign his character because it is often used in this manner. |
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I dont begrudge a man a degree, we have to keep it in perspective that God is not a respector of persons. OIf that degree is used to open doors of opportunity then all the better. Grace and peace Luke Tony |
That clip they posted is three minutes of a 3 hour debate. The debate is really good to watch. For most of the debate, Gipp and the other KJB guy own them. Then they keep asking this dumb question about "where was the Bible before 1611". They actually cut a bit out where an editor of the NKJV loses his voice for a few minutes.
Sam Gipp answers honestly - WHO CARES! He wasn't there, so why does anyone care. Gipp owns this debate. White and Wallace are childish and continually interupt with baby questions and childish interjections. Gipp says something and they start running over him with "why why why" while he is in the middle of explaining why. |
Re: "Sam Gipp's degree"
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Thanks for the heads up (the "link"). Isn't it interesting how Greektim is about as "two-faced" as a hypocrite can get? If this young man had an honest or sincere question since he "joined" our Forum, you couldn't "PROVE IT" by what he says on the FFF! Here is what he said over there: Quote:
Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. And then in regards to those of us on this Forum he quotes (on FFF): Proverbs 15:1–2 (NASB) Quote:
So deep down in his little perverse heart, sweet "Timmy" really and truly thinks (and openly declares on FFF) that we are just a bunch of FOOLS that are just spouting FOLLY! Of course he doesn't DARE say that here, but over "there" his TRUE CHARACTER comes through = a disingenuous HYPOCRITE! I just can't leave a 'quote' from the corrupt NASB, without citing the verses as recorded in the King James Bible. The HOLY BIBLE: Quote:
James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Psalms 12:2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. |
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Sounds a lot like what their scholarly translators did with their bible versions.:tsk: Proverbs 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. I think by now "genuine" Bible believers on the forum and many who "lurk" know there is an agenda with these men. As brother George says their words are all sweet and "innocent" and speeches fair. I am certainly not deceived nor are many others. let me put it this way and pose a question "Would you(critic/corrector) walk into a Church, a bible believing Church and try and snatch the Book from peoples hands? and If so what would you put in their hands in its place?" Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. I thank the Lord that we do have a continual source of genuine Born again Bible believing Christians who find these forums by the grace of God and I pray that those who are "new" to manuscripts and "bible versions" come to see the "irrefutable truth" about where God has left his words for today, in one place, in one book, the AV1611. Please do not be swayed, disheartened, or let your faith in the Book be diminished, God forbid! Just study the Book, feed of the Book and know you have all the words of God in your hands and BELIEVE it and by studying the Perfect, Pure, Preserved Book, the counterfeits become oh so apparent. The Bible is correct, we must submit to its teachings. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. The Apostle Paul "beseeches" that it quite urgent to avoid this type of man, while it is hard not to answer their fruitless questions, we must refrain until their puff runs out of steam Webster's 1828 Dictionary [A-J] beseech BESEE'CH, v.t. pret. and pp.besought. To entreat; to supplicate; to implore; to ask or pray with urgency; followed by a person; as, "I Paul beseech you by the meekness of Christ,", 2 Cor.10.; or by a thing; as, I beseech your patience. There are many who join this forum who are NOT Bible believers, but are struggling with the question "Which Bible?" and I have all the time that God spares me for these people and I will not force what I know and believe down their throats but let scripture say more than I can ever say, Gods words wont return onto him void. As for the purposed deniers, critics, scorners, fundamental popes, masters of fundamentalism, Take it somewhere else. 2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. |
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RE; "Sam Gipp's degree"
Aloha brother Steven (POTW),
Please notice what I have gleaned from checking out brother Parish's "Link": Quote:
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“Sam the Gipper's "degrees" / “The former is Dr. Petey Ruckman's church-basement toy "college," / “the latter is a defunct degree mill in Tennessee. His academic credentials are, in a word, worthless.” Ah yes, aren’t these the kind, gentile, sweet, and lovely people? Wouldn’t you just want to be friends with them and fellowship with them? NOT! WHY isn’t Greektim “offended” by these MALICIOUS REMARKS? Hmmm? Proverbs 10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool. Quote:
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They certainly weren’t aimed at the “Fundamental Pope” (“freesundayschoollessons”); or the “Master of Fundamentalism” (“jrw”); or the “Master of Fundamentalism” (“SAWBONES” – here on the AV1611 Bible Forums); or the “Forum Sage” (“Ransom”)! And if they weren’t in reference to all of those nice, sweet, and polite people, then WHO could young Timmy be possibly be referring to? Hmmm? He couldn’t possibly be referring to us as “FOOLS” – could he? He couldn’t possibly be saying that when we defend the King James Bible that we are spouting “FOLLY” – could he? Oh no! He must be speaking about SOMEONE ELSE - besides US! :rolleyes: Except he is already recorded as saying that he is: “. . . . extremely against the KJV only view.” Then WHY is he here with us “FOOLS” and our “FOLLY”? Hmmm? WHO is the bigger “FOOL”? Hmmm? :confused: We have these wonderful “brethren” who quote C.S. Lewis (instead of the Holy Bible); who denigrate and malign the brethren with wicked and malicious remarks; who write in “tongues” (rather than speak them); who come and “JOIN” our Forum and stir up trouble, confusion, and division, and when they are called down on their clever and deceitful questions, insidious tactics, & disingenuous comments they innocently proclaim: “WHO ME”? “I haven’t done anything”! “I’m the innocent injured party”! These people are just exactly like the Pharisees of old. [2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.] These people are the “blind leaders of the blind” [Matthew 15:14] and we know where they end up {“into the ditch”!} WHY? WHY do they come here? We didn’t invite them. We have so little in common with them. WHY do they HATE us so? WHY can’t they stay in there “club” and we’ll stay in ours? WHY are they “lurking” in the background checking up on us? Hmmm? I wouldn’t think of going to their worthless Forum and “lurk” in the background to see what they believe, or what they are doing. I could care less! WHAT is it about them that compels’ them to come here and “spy” on us, and then go back to their “club house” and criticize and malign us? I have never gone to their site and done the same (I wouldn’t think of it – there is no “profit” or “edification” in it – it would be a total waste of my time.) – WHY do they come here and cause trouble? Since brother Parrish gave us that “Link” I did a cursory search on the “Threads” dealing with the King James Bible issue. Just in case you “think” I have overstated something here, how about this list of “THREADS” from the FFF site: Ruckmormon: Just for you Luke :D freesundayschoollessons Today 07:57 AM by freesundayschoollessons Any Bible Believers left here? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) ChaplainPaul Today 07:42 AM by robycop3 The KJVO myth is from a CULT OFFICIAL'S book! (1 2 3 ... Last Page) robycop3 Yesterday 06:57 PM by robycop3 Kjvo Has No Scriptural Support! (1 2 3 ... Last Page) robycop3 Yesterday 06:53 PM by robycop3 Why KJVOs should not be depended on for vocabulary freesundayschoollessons Yesterday 11:35 AM by freesundayschoollessons Conspiracy theories!!! freesundayschoollessons Yesterday 10:01 AM by freesundayschoollessons You had a good run solabiblia! (1 2 3) freesundayschoollessons 05-13-2009 04:40 PM by Jackieboy 05-12-2009 09:03 PM by WhyEvenBother The AV1611 bears the print of Anglicanism (1 2) likeuntohim 05-12-2009 02:32 PM by freesundayschoollessons K J V O- a damnable heresy! Or no? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Walkin' with Jesus 05-11-2009 08:29 AM by SAWBONES The Hermeneutic of the KJVO (1 2 3) freesundayschoollessons 05-09-2009 04:32 PM by freesundayschoollessons Poll: Which Bible Do You Read (1 2 3 ... Last Page) ILoveTheLord 05-09-2009 03:33 PM by SAWBONES Sam Gipp: Degree confusion (1 2) freesundayschoollessons 05-08-2009 07:54 PM by freesundayschoollessons KJV settled in heaven... (1 2 3) timotheos Ed's Best KJV (1 2 3 ... Last Page) 1611ED 05-06-2009 10:29 PM by 1611ED Why such disdain for the originals? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) freesundayschoollessons 05-01-2009 10:32 AM by SAWBONES English Is BETTER Than The Greek 4 (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Jim Schoolfield 04-29-2009 10:31 AM by Herb Evans Which Bibles do not? The Glory Land 04-24-2009 07:28 AM by SAWBONES Which KJV is inerrant?? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Stephen 04-21-2009 06:16 PM by 1611ED K J V O (1 2 3 ... Last Page) The Glory Land 04-17-2009 09:38 AM by The Glory Land Just a thought (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Just_A_Thought 04-15-2009 11:16 PM by SAWBONES This guy would make a great KJVO. BuddingTheologian 04-12-2009 05:23 PM by SAWBONES Matthew 26:41 in the King James Version (1 2 3 ... Last Page) LarryN 04-11-2009 01:48 PM by Walkin' with Jesus Origenal Sin: The Alexandrian "corruption" revisited (1 2 3 ... Last Page) freesundayschoollessons 04-07-2009 01:36 PM by freesundayschoollessons A video to bring peace between the KJVOs and Modern Version advocates freesundayschoollessons 03-30-2009 07:07 PM by timotheos Is the Anglican Version (AV) Translated from the Textus Receptus (TR)? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Dr. Bob Griffin 03-30-2009 08:10 AM by Walkin' with Jesus Does the Bible misquote Jesus? BuddingTheologian 03-28-2009 10:20 PM by BuddingTheologian Earliest Preserved Greek mss.... (1 2) BuddingTheologian 03-27-2009 08:26 PM by freesundayschoollessons Does Riplinger have a counterpart? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) Panthera 03-27-2009 11:58 AM by robycop3 Johannine pericope of the adulteress 7:53-8:11 (1 2 3 ... Last Page) timotheos 03-19-2009 01:12 PM by Brother Tim Do modern versions contain the very words of God? (1 2 3 ... Last Page) William S. Correa 03-19-2009 10:37 AM by Walkin' with Jesus if you know Latin or Greek sign here petrvs 03-15-2009 08:35 PM by timotheos Latin,Greek Bibles are grammatically sluperior than English. (1 2 3 ... Last Page) petrvs 03-14-2009 07:57 AM by Ransom They have 41 pages (20 Threads X 41 Pages = approximately 821 “Threads”) most of which are critical of either the King James Bible or of King James Bible defenders! Do you recognize any names from the above partial list? timotheos (our very own “Greektim”); robycop3 (Banned from the AV1611 Bible Forums); Just_A_Thought (Banned from the AV1611 Bible Forums); freesundayschoollessons (Banned from the AV1611 Bible Forums – TWICE! The "second time" he SNEAKED in under FALSE CIRCUMSTANCES: in plain ("harsh") language - HE LIED!); solabiblia (Banned from the AV1611 Bible Forums); SAWBONES (still “lurking” in the shadows); Mitex (?) if I didn't know better I would almost believe there is a "conspiracy" over there to UNDERMINE our Forum, but that's not possible with such "nice" people - is it? It's obvious that all those genuine Bible believers that have been on the FFF have not made even the slightest DENT on the unbelieving and faithless "position" that many (if not most) of the "Christians" there hold concerning the King James Bible! :( My question is simply: WHY BOTHER? WHY bother debating and arguing with these people? It is a hopeless exercise in FUTILITY! :eek: Poor brother Tim, and chaplain Paul, and Herb Evans (and whoever else was a real Bible believer on that Forum); they must have felt like missionaries caught at a Cannibals conference! :eek: I refuse to engage "Greektim" anymore. I will not engage him, debate with him, or have a "meaningful discussion" with him. This young man has proven to be dishonest, disingenuous, and full of guile (I don't care how "sweet" he may "appear" - the man is a "wolf in sheep's clothing" and I am done with him.) The sooner that some other people on this Forum begin to understand the full impact and meaning of: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." [1 Corinthians 5:6 & Galatians 5:9]; the sooner "Greektim" will get the hint and leave and rejoin all of his sweet and lovely "buddies" over there at FFF (Birds of a feather flock together) the sooner we will have some peace (until the next Bible corrector or heretick shows up!). They accuse of as being members of a "club", and in a sense they are right. Most of us here of of the "same mind" when it comes to the issue of the King James Bible being our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice. But what is true of us is also true of them. Most of them belong to another "club" (admittedly a much bigger "club"); and they are all of the same mind, in that they refuse to recognize ANY BOOK, or ANY "bible"; or ANY set of manuscripts as being THE perfect, Holy, inspired, and infallible (without error) word of God, and consequently they have NO FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice other than their own puny minds! :eek: We are in a war brothers (and sisters), and the sooner we all realize that the enemy is NOT only outside of our ranks, but that they are also within our ranks, the sooner we will be able do the work of God without being hindered by Bible correctors; Bible deniers; false brethren; wolves in sheep clothing; and hereticks. I have made it a practice to have nothing to do with these kind of people. After 50 years I have learned (after dealing with literally dozens of "Greektim's", "solabiblia's", "freesundayschoollessons", etc.) that it is "FRUITLESS"! [Proverbs 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.] I have never convinced a single one of these skeptics to believe in the King James Bible. Did you get that? After 50 years - I have NEVER convinced a single Bible "skeptic" to my point of view through "meaningful dialogue"! :eek: Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him. |
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This is typical. George has spoken with respect and rebuked you when out of line. You just can't see that. You think a rebuke must be sugar coated. Your manner is well spoken, but we can all read between the lines. |
Also, to reply to my special thread
The fact I give Ruckman any breathing room is #1 I don't live to denounce other men #2 I haven't actually read his research, nor have I enough Bible knowledge to rebuke it. #3 If you were to actually read BiB, especially the last chapter, you would see what his real views are on aliens. This has nothing to do with mormonism. #4 Ruckman said he would not be inhabiting other planets. He will be a servant king, serving God, setting God's new creation down on other planets. There is a difference between that and what mormons believe. The reason I am not posting on the FFF is because what's the point. I don't agree with anything you say. I really don't care if you don't appreciate Ruckman, or want to dismiss everything he says because of minor teachings of his. I love Miles J. Stanford as a writer. But get this - he isn't KJBO, and he is a calvinist (albeit a pauline dispensational sovereign gracer). I also guess my prediction was right... It would end up as ammo on the FFF. Glad I didn't say what sermon, so they could take it all out of context. |
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I went to one of the links about Solabiblia and to be honest its the last time I will go to your forum, its fruitless and pointless for me to do so, but I would just like to point out the infantile nature of you all over there and the obvious malignity from those posts Quote:
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Lots of love from there then Tim? Quote:
And finally, Because they are so infantile over there when a man is sincere about not being well educated or able to speak Greek or Hebrew, I MAKE NO APOLOGY for stating that I am not a well educated man yet I clearly have more discernment than a lot of you. Quote:
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Psalms 25:9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way. Psalms 10:17 LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear: Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit. Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Now Greektim, I read one thread from your forums and Do you know what I felt so spiritually hurt by these things that I read that I am almost in tears, not because I am weak, no, because people write those things and have the cheek to do it while calling themselves a born again christian! Many get rebuked on this forum with "Holy Scripture" on your forum you men and I use that term lightly as you don't behave as men, have a real LACK of Holy scripture use in your posts and more "personal opinions" you behave like infants in a playground. 2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 2 Timothy 3:1-5 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. |
Hi All
Hi everyone,
I was registered here last year sometime, but I had major pc problems, lost all my info password, etc, and couldn't log on. I opened a new account not to break rules, but simply because I couldn't figure out how to retrieve my old info. If a mod can help me recover all my old info, that would be great.I have been saved since 1991, and thru alot of 'stuff', the one thing I always knew was that God ws right, and I was wrong, EVERY TIME, and the Holy Bible IS the 1611 Authorized Version. Anyway, in the past I have had dealings with robycop and the rest of the crew, I have had my email box spammed by the 'brethren', etc, etc. I do not know any Greek or Hebrew, and to be honest, do not feel the need to do so. I do have a pretty good working knowledge concerning manuscript evidence, and which readings are found in which manuscripts, and all of that. I have read most books on the subject as well. In the past I have handled myself pretty well with most of the folks who think that they can correct the KJV, or ANY version with the Greek. I have reasoned with them , dealing with the fact that there is no 'original greek' manuscripts on earth, etc, etc Guess what? I don't debate anymore with them. I simply rebuke them. Know why? Because why in the world would I waste my time debating some practical atheist like robycop concerning something he has never seen? It would be like arguing with an atheist about God. I don't deal with people who quote Black is Beautiful out of context either. What is the point brothers, in dealing with a bunch of dirty Bible rejecting liars like that crew? Honestly, let robycop, and the rest of the devils over there have fun in their greek sandbox. I KNOW at least, that I have a book that T KNOW IS the Scriptures. NONE of those geniuses over there could say the same thing. Let them whine and spin and spit. All devil controlled Bible rejecting silly asses do the same thing Let them go out in the graveyard and howl at the moon. They probably listen to ozzy osbourne anyway :D |
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You used your very first post to do this? Why do you speak this way? There's no call for it. You call them devils and devil controlled Bible rejecting silly asses. I'm sure you think you can justify it, but I think you're way out of line. What you're doing is is not a rebuke, or an exhortation, or a correction and is not edifying in any way. There is no spiritual gift called ridicule. I can appreciate being angry and frustrated at these people; but be ye angry and sin not. |
Slatts, I have to second Paul's admonition. Wrong is wrong, no matter who is involved, and you are stepping way over the line of godly rebuke into taunting and name-calling. Some of these of whom you speak are true brethren, though terribly misguided. Some are wolves, intent on tearing the sheep. The attacks won't diffuse them.
I do look forward to speaking with you face-to-face, but I cannot let your post stand unanswered. |
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I will agree with both Brothers here, there are definitely some misguided brethren on that forum and as Tim stated there are plenty of wolves as well, but it is best to withdraw from them that are intent on trouble and avoid those who cause strife and division. To call them names is only adding fuel to the fire. I don't know what they have said to you or emailed you about but we shouldn't match railing for railing only railing with rebuke (scriptural rebuke) 1 Peter 3:8-9 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; It is hard I know not to let the carnal man take over when people are so vile and nasty to us, but as I am ever learning we heap coals of fire on their heads by not railing them back. Proverbs 25:21-23 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee. Romans 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. |
Hello GreekTim,
I'm not sure where Dr. Samuel C. Gipp received his degree. I read his book "An Understandable History of the Bible" (about 500 pages) and I felt very blessed by reading it. It helped me to understand where the KJV came from and how BLESSED we are to have it! It doesn't matter to me where someone gets their degree from (or whether they even have one), as long as they're uplifting the TRUTH. |
We've come back full circle..
People who read Gipp's work (and Vance's) will hardly be interested in where they got their degree. A degree does not automatically validate (in fact many degrees help to show their bias toward one particular theology or another) anything in their book. I am more interested in where they got their information and is it biblical and historically accurate. |
Also, Sam is not the Gipper.
That's what he calls his wife! |
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Slatts |
Re: "Sam Gipp's degree"
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Aloha brother, I am not going to "pile on" you, since several brothers have already "reproved" you. I will say this though - don't lose your love for the Holy word of God or your contempt for Bible correctors (or deniers). What you need to do is learn to "temper" your speech (somewhat). Quote:
I am particularly "hard" on these men, but I won't call them "devils", or "silly asses", etc. (that's "name-calling" for the sake of "ridicule"). On the other hand, if after a while, they "prove" themselves (by their own "words" and "deeds") to be Bible "correctors", Bible "deniers", "Humanists", "Sophists", or indeed "wolves in sheep's clothing", I do not hesitate to call them what I believe they are. Today's PC (Humanist) "Culture" frowns on this sort of behavior, (unless it's in reference to Bible believers!) but I am not supposed to "conform" to the world's standards (i.e. Humanism), I am supposed to be "transformed" and be like the Lord Jesus Christ (a Christian); and I am to follow the Apostle Paul [1 Corinthian 4:6, 11:1; Philippians 3;17]. Now, neither the Lord Jesus Christ nor Paul ever hesitated calling "a spade a spade", so it's not a matter of NOT "warning" or "admonishing" or "reproving" or "rebuking" - it's having the spiritual "knowledge", "discernment", "understanding", and especially "wisdom" to know HOW to go about doing those things; and WHEN to do it; and to WHOM you should do it. You have "zeal" for the Lord and for His Holy word, and I don't want to discourage that (not ever!); but you must "temper" that "zeal" with those things I mentioned above. Those things {spiritual "knowledge", "discernment", "understanding", and "wisdom"} are "gifts" (given by God) and are acquired from God in his "own time" (since I am particularly "hard-headed" - it took a very long time for me). You are not wrong in your "assessment" of those Bible "correctors", "deniers", "gnat strainers", and "railers". Whether they are aware of what they are doing, or not, they will "answer" for their unbelief - of that I am absolutely sure: Quote:
Some of the brethren on the AV1611 Forum disagree with me on how to deal with these "people", and that is their right and prerogative. I believe that the Scriptures are crystal clear on WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, and HOW to deal with them; and WHO they are. There are two things about them I know for sure: #1. They may be "saved", but - They are NOT genuine "Bible" (ONE BOOK that you can hold in your hands) believers. #2. They do NOT possess A SINGLE "FINAL AUTHORITY" for determining all matters of faith and practice. There is a huge difference between those Christians (the vast majority) who simply "don't know" about the "Which Bible" issue, and those "Christians" who actively seek to disparage, defame, slander, and ridicule the Holy Bible! I try to patiently deal with those Christians who are ignorant of the issue and know little or nothing about it: Quote:
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I refuse to "dialogue" with them because there is NO PROFIT to be gained, and NO EDIFICATION takes place in such a FRUITLESS endeavor. I repeat: trying to deal with Bible "correctors", Sophists, and Humanists is an EXERCISE IN FUTILITY! Quote:
Whether it be DOCTRINE: Quote:
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There is no "room" for "leaven" in a church or any other Christian institution or group of believers (such as this Forum) - whether it be "leaven" in the form of "doctrine" [Galatians 5:9] or in the form of a "person" [1 Corinthians 5:6]. The Bible command is clear: If a man that is called a brother is GUILTY of the following: Quote:
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In addition we should: "put away from among yourselves that wicked person." That is WHY I will have NOTHING to do with those people and cannot understand WHY some Christians will try to "dialogue" or "reason" with them. Quote:
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The Biblical (Scriptural) commandment on HOW to deal with these men is clear. Whether it is personally distasteful or uncomfortable for me; whether I "think" there might be a better way; or whether our "culture" frowns on being direct and dealing "harshly" with people - if I am to live "by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" [Matthew 4:4] then I must "AVOID THEM" at the least! Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. |
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Grace and peace Tony |
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Quit listening to the singing over there Brother and stablish yourself in some good solid Bible Believing here. Pay attention to Bro George's post, we do have to submit to how the Bible teaches us to deal with these people and stick to it no matter what, after all it IS our FINAL authority for ALL matters of faith and practice Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. We are friends here, rebuke may hurt sometimes, but it is always for the greater good and most importantly for the Glory of the Lord Jesus Christ and his Holy written word. |
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Great post George, tell it like it is brother... :D |
Slatt, as you can see, George considers me a softie. I wish that he could talk to a few of my former students (or my kids for that matter). He has rightly earned the "old curmudgeon" title.
I tend to pick my battles less broadly. I prefer using a scalpel, while others prefer a 50 cal or scatter gun. We arevstill on the same side of the fence. |
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DOH! Busted!:doh: |
Re: " Sam Gipp's degree"
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Aloha Brother Tim, Actually my choice of weapon happens to be: "The Sword of The Spirit". :) Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: We are in a WAR brother - NOT a "debating society" or a "coffee clatch"; and the only WEAPON that I use is God's words - It's the ONLY "OFFENSIVE" WEAPON available to a Bible believer (the rest of our "armour" is "Defensive"). My words, or anyone else's words, opinions, suppositions, and speculations are as useless as a pea shooter at the OK Coral. :rolleyes: |
George, regarding Ephesians 6, I see "prayer" as an offensive weapon as well. Touche' on the "Sword" comment, but you know what I meant. :)
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I agree. I use the words of the Holy Bible, when talking to others, whether they are lost or saved. The word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, yea, amen, and it DOES pierce through all the garbage, and hits right at the heart of the matter. |
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