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PaulB 07-31-2009 02:18 AM

One question!
How is it possible (whether indirectly or directly) for one to label another a “Pharisee”, a “Sophist” or someone who has a “problem with the Bible” without judging someone?

Verses like Mt.7:1 are addressing exactly what is happening on this forum (i.e. coming down on those who feel like they have the moral high ground, when it is fact they who are in the wrong!)

Not only that, but some people on this forum are so quick to pounce on the case of a select few newcomers and are guilty of doing the very things that they are criticising others for.
To come down on another by applying the verse “judge not” is an act of judging in itself!

God bless


Amanda S. 07-31-2009 07:24 AM

Bro. Paul,

As suggested by Jennifer I have gone back and looked at the thread I started and the threads I have posted in...And I'm sure from her point of view that I am full of hate and malice. It matters not that I mostly involved myself in topics that were current. It also matters not that she was involved in most every conversation I was, but alas she does have the duty to correct my Gospel of Hate. Nor does it matter that I strived to stay in the context. Nor does it matter that I FULLY admitted that the Christian is NOT commanded to hate anyone, that any judgment to be made in church is to be righteous in their judgments not with malice but mourning.

One of the reasons I was excited in joining was to reason through this idea of God "Hates the sin, not the sinner" as it was a point of contention between several people on my FB that very week.

After looking over my posts I can clearly see a continual disagreement running through most of the threads. It is the idea of authority. The very idea that a man, men, elders have any right to address sin and deal with it for the good of the church really rubs people wrong. But the concept is not as foreign as one would like to suggest...Government, police officers etc make laws, give tickets (judgment) because they hate the law breaker....!? No, but for the good of the community....Hopefully because they care for the well-being of yourself.

Perhaps because I've been blessed to be associated with wonderful churches and leadership I have little understanding of their point of view. I would not want to be a church member in a church where I didn't think the pastor wasn't looking out for my well-being and the well-being of the other Christians. If I was involved in a sin that was going to bring down the wrath of God on me or the body of believers I should hope someone would say something to me! But again, I've no experience in this being handled wrongly....The occasions I have known, the sin was privately addressed and there was no putting away or occasion for "stone throwing" as some would like to say. But rather tears and heartache and joy when the sin was repented of and addressed...(in this particular case it was fornication at the age of 16 with a resulting pregnancy).

I said all that to say...I can see where they are coming from. And we will probably continue to have this disagreement and differing of views as I view a lot of topics and Christian living and service through a leadership's (my husband) and church member's eyes. I would dare say that a missionary, evangelist, street preacher, nursing home minister etc would view a lot of topics with the situations they are acquainted with on a daily basis.

Be blessed Bro. Paul!

PaulB 07-31-2009 08:41 AM

The sins and the sinner
Hi Amanda! I agree with what you are saying and as you know I relate to your position and the way in which you are addressing the issues. I can't see what you have said wrong in any way on this forum, and certainly not with the any malice intended.

The trouble is, when we innocently enter into forums on the world wide web we can be answering honest questions that people are hungry to know the answers to, but at the same time we can be stepping on toes.

Our answers come from our convictions. and our convictions come because we care about people and truth. I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda


custer 08-01-2009 10:47 AM


Originally Posted by custer (Post 24884)

...will someone PLEASE expound I Corinthians 7:27-28? I just want to know why the man in that passage is committing adultery when he remarries if the Bible says he has not sinned!

Somebody, anybody???


CKG 08-01-2009 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by PaulB (Post 24920)
I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda



You're not helping matters any with statements like ""probably because I approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture rather than using C.I. Scofield’s notes". You're insinuating that those who are dispensational don't approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture and that all dispensationalists can't study the Bible without the aid of Scofield's notes, not to mention when you look at "Ask Mr. Religion"'s statement of faith which he posted to this forum there is a book advertised that attacks dispensationalism.

Jassy 08-01-2009 01:27 PM


Originally Posted by Renee (Post 24903)
Hi sister Jassy,

Sorry I beat you to the punch. It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures. I read a lot of the post that are posted. I find that a lot of post in some threads I prefer to be quiet on, infact I ignore whole threads after reading the first few post. I do have this thing though, when I see that George or Brandon has posted I do go check it out.

There is much wisdom and discernment and understanding in both yours and Greenbear's post and I preceive that behind the post is a meek and quiet spirit.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

May The Lord bless you,


Looks like this thread has morphed again!

Sis Renee,

Thank you for your lovely comments. Sometimes, in this world, being a meek and quiet spirit is very difficult - and unappreciated. Besides that, it's like placing out a doormat with the words of invitation: "Walk all over me!" on it! ;)

I cannot say I have in any way mastered the practice of being a meek and quiet spirit. You might want to ask those who are around me on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I can get a little "hot-headed" at times. :(

I'm HAPPY that you "beat me to the punch" sis. Besides that, it's not a contest. LOL

Threads that morph can sometimes be interesting. It can sometimes reveal things that would otherwise remain hidden.

I will generally (eventually) read almost all of the posts - but I often restrain my comments, prayerfully. I try to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. I will sometimes not listen to Him though... :( and I'll post something that should not have been said - or something that I said with the wrong attitude.

I think being deaf has been good for me, in some ways, because I've had to be patient and often be left-out of conversations. I was very shy, growing up, due to being physically different. Sometimes I was teased, sometimes ostracized. Sometimes cruelly ridiculed. I had to learn not to take those arrows and slingshots personally. Even as an adult, I stand only 3'9" tall and, due to that, am very visibly different. And then, becoming deaf, it was very, very difficult for me to feel "left out." Sometimes I took it wrongly, as being rejected or as my opinion "not counting."

In a group, when asking what was being said, sometimes my question was met with barely-contained impatience, along with the comment: "I'll tell you later." Or "It's not important." Or "It doesn't concern you." So, I may sometimes be clueless about what is going on around me. Sometimes I feel that is a blessing. I'm able to avoid contentious situations since I can't put my "two cents worth" in!

In person, I may sometimes appear to be very meek and quiet - when it is not necessarily my "personality" but my lack of hearing that foists that upon me. I had to stop "blowing up" in frustration and taking things personally that were not meant to be personal - such as the feeling of being "left out."

It's amazing to me, the GOOD that the Lord can work out of believers' situations, if we will only "Be STILL and KNOW that I am God:..." (Psalm 46:10, emphasis mine) He makes himself HEARD when we are quiet and listen. By prayer and Bible study, we learn of Him.


Jassy 08-01-2009 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 24904)
Renee and Jassy,

I pray the Lord to give me a meek and quiet spirit. I have a zeal for the truth but in this I am lacking. I still respond carnally at times. I thank God for your and JaeByrd's "ensamples".


Sis Jennifer,

Welcome to the club of meek and quiet spirits, who sometimes are a bit "hot-headed"! :pound: You can read my post to sis Renee for more info on the background of how I got from point A to point B. However, I caution you that I don't recommend going deaf! LOL

Isn't it wonderful that we have such "ensamples"? I am very thankful to the Lord for them.

You have a wonderful spirit Jennifer. I've seen that, in your communications with me and others, when you feel you've been wrong, you will humbly apologize - even if I haven't seen where you've been wrong. That has been a great "ensample" for me, sis.


greenbear 08-01-2009 01:44 PM


I am free to state my point of view on this forum. Whether or not I am addressing something you have written it's not just intended for you to read. Read it or not and respond or not, as you see fit.


And I'm sure from her point of view that I am full of hate and malice.
That's not my point of view. What I think is that Christians can become blinded to the reason for our existence. We can end up going the opposite direction that we are supposed to go just like Israel did. The Jewish leaders had apostasized and were actually the enemies of their Messiah when He came.


Nor does it matter that I FULLY admitted that the Christian is NOT commanded to hate anyone, that any judgment to be made in church is to be righteous in their judgments not with malice but mourning.
We are not just "not commanded to hate anyone", we are "commanded" to LOVE.

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

We are not only commanded to LOVE our brothers, we are commanded to love our enemies SO THAT we may be LIKE our Father in Heaven.

Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

LOVE is the fulfillment of the Law.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


For anyone else wondering why Bro. George declared this Scripturally unsound he has written about his teaching on this matter. I hesitated to link it as I respectfully disagree but surmised I would likely not get an answer so I went searching

Sis. Pam I knew you too were wondering what his position was on this so here is the link.

After looking over my posts I can clearly see a continual disagreement running through most of the threads. It is the idea of authority.
Exactly. The scriptures are THE standard, not men's opinions, whether they be of the brethren, elders, teachers, pastors, husbands, denominations, or the world.

PaulB 08-01-2009 01:59 PM

Hi Craig!

You're right perhaps I wasn't being very helpful, but I was getting frustrated with some of the titles that were being hurled in my direction. I was answering valid questions from the Bible and was being tarnished with titles by some who look at certain verses through a different lense.

I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else but it does seem to be the case that unless one holds to a dispensational view of Scripture then you can only expect alot of accusative opposition!

Forums are places where different views are obviously going to meet and if I post a reply and someone doesn't agree with me then that is fine in my book. But when I disagree with a dispensational interpretation of Scripture that doesn't make me into a heretic, Sophist or Pharisee.

So in response to you post - I apologise as I just got carried away in the heat of the moment due to the attention that I seemed to be cornered with!

God bless


PaulB 08-01-2009 02:06 PM

Loosed from a wife
Hi Custer (Pam)

I posted a couple of links that may prove helpful in a previous post on this thread and there was everything that a person could seek to know within them.

My personal belief "loosed from a wife" = a widow/widower which makes such a person free to re-marry and has not sinned as a result!

God bless


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