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cb6445 05-06-2009 04:08 PM

Church Discipline
 
How 'bout Church discipline? Is it Biblical in our Age to "church" members (to have them voted out of the church due to something they've done or not done)? If so, what would a person have to do or not do to warrant that? Not opinions, but from scripture. God Bless!

chette777 05-06-2009 06:55 PM

I tried Matthew 18 many times with different people but you can never force anyone to admit their own sin. So it doesn't work very well. Paul mentions In Roms 16:17 that if a man is divisive not to mark him and avoid him.

1Corinthians is the only place where Paul has the church deliver one over to Satan because of a sin not even named among the unbelievers. 1Co 5:1-6 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? The reason was so others would not begin to think it was ok to sin so blatantly.

In 2Tim 3:5 Paul instructs us to turn away from those who are described in the previous verse. and they are not unbelievers they are church leaders and members.

George 05-06-2009 07:34 PM

Re: " Church Discipline"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19312)
How 'bout Church discipline? Is it Biblical in our Age to "church" members (to have them voted out of the church due to something they've done or not done)? If so, what would a person have to do or not do to warrant that? Not opinions, but from scripture. God Bless!


Aloha brother,

1 Corinthians Chapter 5 (the whole Chapter) is one of the best places to learn about New Testament church "discipline":

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


1 Corinthians 5:11 lists several offenses serious enough for church discipline. there may be a few more - like a brother who is a "dope head", or a "thief", but we have to be very careful NOT to EXPAND the "list" to include a "cigarette smoker" or some other offense that does not measure up to those serious offenses.

Carefully read the verses. There is NOT ONE verse in the entire Chapter with a "THOU", a "THY", or a "THINE" (all singular) in it - which simply means that church "discipline" is NOT up to the "pastor", it's something that must be exercised by the whole body. {Notice "YE" or "YOU" - all plural}

cb6445 05-06-2009 09:03 PM

Yeah, I agree brothers. That's a hard one, too. I wanna believe that we should give the individual time to repent before you just automatically "withdraw" yourself from them. However, it doesn't seem to me the Lord agrees with that. He never mentions "if they do it again" or "after the 3rd or 4th time, etc." He says immediately. But then I do not see anything about allowing that person to come back or fellowshipping again with that person after a certain period of time. Seems to me that the Lord says as soon as you are made aware of that person's sin, then withdraw yourself from them for good. Would that be an accurate statement? (That statement only applying to a person who is considered a "brother", of course)

George 05-06-2009 10:54 PM

Re: "Church Discipline"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19329)
Yeah, I agree brothers. That's a hard one, too. I wanna believe that we should give the individual time to repent before you just automatically "withdraw" yourself from them. However, it doesn't seem to me the Lord agrees with that. He never mentions "if they do it again" or "after the 3rd or 4th time, etc." He says immediately. But then I do not see anything about allowing that person to come back or fellowshipping again with that person after a certain period of time. Seems to me that the Lord says as soon as you are made aware of that person's sin, then withdraw yourself from them for good. Would that be an accurate statement? (That statement only applying to a person who is considered a "brother", of course)

Aloha brother,

We must always be prepared to "forgive" - IF there is evidence of sincere repentance; a demonstrable turning away from sin; and a genuine return to God. There must always be room in our hearts for forgiveness - we just have to be prudent about how we extend that forgiveness.

For example: If a brother in Christ has fallen into his old ways and takes up drinking alcohol again, and if he comes up to you and says he's "sorry", but continues drinking, you might accept his apology, but until he shows some "fruits" meet for repentance [Matthew 3:8] he can not be allowed to join back in the fellowship with the believers.

Paul urged the Corinthian church to forgive a man who had been "punished" by the church, saying his "punishment" was "sufficient". Some think that this might be in reference to the same man as in 1 Corinthians 5 - I don't know for sure, but this I do know, whoever this man is in 2 Corinthians 2:6, Paul was saying that the church should "forgive" him and "confirm" their "love toward him".

2 Corinthians 2:5
But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.

Just because a person sins - it doesn't mean that we turn our back on him forever! I thank God that he doesn't do that to us!

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I would be in a heap of trouble if God didn't forgive my sins

cb6445 05-07-2009 08:20 PM

Agreed
 
I agree brother. I believed that to be true, but was struggling finding scripture to back it up. I, too, am glad God doesn't treat me that way. I appreciate you, brother.

Tmonk 05-16-2009 05:08 AM

Recently my church had an incident along these lines.

One of the youth Sunday school teachers got arrested for making a drunken fool of herself about 4 blocks from the church to boot.

She got up in front of the congregation and asked for the forgiveness of her fellow members. She of course received it, but she lost her teaching position.

chette777 05-16-2009 05:12 AM

nothing wrong with that let her sit and learn under the pastor some more and in a few years if she shows herself no longer to be a drunkard and able to teach then maybe they can allow here back to teach Sunday school again. you church did the right thing. I pray she accepted and respected their decision.

Bill 05-24-2009 03:20 PM

Identified as sinner
 
In response to cb6445 regarding giving people time before invoking church discipline in 1 Corinthians 5:11. Paul speaks of people who are identified by their sin, not righteous people who have fallen into a sin which they despise and want to be delivered from with a broken and contrite heart. I think that for a person to be identified by a sin, that person must be stubbornly determined to continue in that sin and not repent. It seems to me that determining the difference between those two conditions would probably take some time, especially since deliberate hypocritical sinners are usually very good at deception, blame-shifting, etc.


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