New Century
 

My wonderful mother in law :pound: is fightin with me about the King James issue. She says there's no difference between her New Century Bible and my King James. Without havin to buy one and read through and find out, can someone give me some ammunition to prove her wrong.

The last 12 verses of Mark will be missing. I John 5:7 will be missing. Daniel 3:25 will be "a son of the gods", a demon, instead of the correct reading, "the son of God". Revelation 1:6 will be "His God and Father" rather than the correct "God and His Father". I Tim, 3:16 will be "he who was manifest in the flesh" rather than the correct "God was manifest in the flesh".

The NCB is translated from texts owned by the Catholic Church that they will only give photos of, and the publisher of my NC new testament was affiliated with The Church Of Christ.

That will be good for starters:)

Grace and peace

Bones, former COC

NCB
 

Thank you brother! That helps a bunch! God bless ya brother.

:amen:

I had nearly all, up to 1990, of the fake bibles, 135 copies. They were basically all the same. If you get a tract on the NASB, NIV, something like The Eye Opener or other expose' of corrupt versions, you will see the NCB is basically another translation of Vaticainus as the 215 versions now extant as Dr. Ruckman has cataloged.

These Alexandrian Book Dealers state NO bible is "inspired, only the "message". This was Karl Barth's heresy(Neo-orthodoxy). They will say that ONLY the "original manuscripts" are "inspired". Note the following:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Where does faith come from?

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

There is NO UNINSPIRED word of God as claimed by James White and others, and if only the original manuscripts are inspired by God, then Romans 10:17 should read:

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the original manuscripts

If The Original Manuscript Fraud is true, there has been NO SALVATION for ANYONE since they deteriorated.

My, and the prayers of this forum, are with you, my friend. Be bold as Paul commanded. Any other help you need, ask of me or anyone else here.

Grace and peace

Tony Bones

.

NCB
 

God bless you brother. I'm a young preacher, and my spirit automatically lines-up with the King James 1611 and it is the PERFECT word of God in the English Language, the FINAL AUTHORITY! Flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto me but my father which is in heaven, but I do try to study this matter as oft as the Lord permits. It's hard to prove them wrong, if you don't know what their Bible is saying or where it stems from. So, I appreciate the help and for the kind words. May God Bless you!

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee!

Hi brother CB, how's the preaching coming along? Whereabouts are you preaching?

Preaching
 

Miracle Baptist Church in Strawberry Plains, TN. I don't know how to put it in to words. The Lord has done it all. I preached in revival this past Friday night and it was wonderful. Needless to say, it wasn't me preaching. It was all him. I praise his holy name. He's done it all. I've only preached 6 times before this and I came prepared/studied for what I completely felt was The message he wanted preached. Then, halfway through the song service he changed it on me. Never had that happened before and was scared to death, so I grabbed my pastor and we went back in the Sunday School room and prayed. The only thing the Lord said was to start reading Isaiah 53. So, I did. Then, I just opened my mouth and he preached through me. Never felt nothing like it in all my life. It was wonderful! Words couldn't describe feeling him on me like that. Didn't even have notes, he just preached. I just thank the Lord Jesus Christ for what he's done for me. I owe him everything!

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Clint, these two verse tie in beautifully:

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

By His grace are we saved through faith, the word of God then is called the word of faith, the well we draw from to renew our faith and refresh ourselves, the well we draw saving faith from to give to the souls of the dried and parched lost.

1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

There is a rock band, System Of A Down, has a song describing Christ's crucifixtion a "...self-righteous suicide". The lost world denies the Scriptures, they have no idea how much they FULFILL them.

2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

I went to a Christian college, I know people in them and been in them, and nowhere in colleges is anyone taught how to reprove, rebuke, or exhort.

Tatoo these two verse on the back of your hand:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Remember this long after this forum has closed, if it ever does: When a man tells you the bible in your hand is not inspired, ask him why even have churches? Why not just close them? When a man says only the "original manuscripts" are inspired, ask him then why he believes no one has been saved since they decayed?

Young men like you are worth more than 100 Christian colleges. You are on the frontlines, they are AWOL deserters who teach unbelief that we even have an inspired Bible.

You know, I know, Matt knows, we do.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

Clint, I am in the Dayton Ohio area, soon as I can get back on my feet financially I'll drop in Miracle Baptist. I'll be in a Dodge Challenger, you'll hear me coming before you see me, he he.

Grace and peace

Tony

Re: " New Century"
 

Aloha brother Clint,

When someone makes the statement: "there's no difference between her New Century Bible and my King James." They are only demonstrating their ignorance. First off: all of the modern Bibles have a "Copyright" - which not only means that the Publishers are claiming "exclusive rights" to God's Holy words :eek:; but every book that has a "copyright" must be (by law) approximately 7% different than any other book, which, simply put, means that not only is the the New Century version "different" from the King James Bible - it is DIFFERENT from every other "bible" out on the MARKET! Ignorance is bliss! :rolleyes:

There is no "copyright" on the King James Bible, unless a Publisher prints "references", "concordances", "helps" (?), etc. along with the text, in which case they can claim a "copyright" on their material, but NOT on the Holy words of God! All of the modern versions have a "copyright" on the "TEXT" of their so-called bibles.

There is a lot of information out there (in books, booklets, pamphlets, web pages, etc.) on the King James Bible issue (i.e. "Which Bible"). The following web pages and information may be of some help to you:

RECOMMENDED WEB PAGES

http://av1611.com/kjbp/ {Diligent's (Brandon Stagg's) page - Checkout "Westcott & Hort's Magic Marker Binge"}
http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/ {Will Kinney's Page}
http://www.preservedwords.com/
http://www.kjv1611.org.uk/
http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/ {my personal page}

There is enough information on the web pages cited above to keep someone occupied for months (possibly years).

The following is a recommended list of Authors of books covering the subject "Which Bible":

IN THE PAST:
John W. Burgon, Edward Miller, F. H. Scrivener, Herman Hoskier, Bishop Wordsworth, Canon Cook, Sir Robert Anderson, Philip Mauro, Joseph C. Philpot, George Sayles Bishop, Benjamin C. Wilkinson, Robert Dick Wilson Edward F. Hills and David Otis Fuller.

PRESENT DAY:
J.J Ray, Terence H. Brown, Henry Coray, Zane C. Hodges, Alfred Martin, Peter S. Ruckman, David Fountain, Gordon P. Gardiner, Wilbur N. Pickering, Donald T. Clarke, Bruce Cummins, Dick Cimino, Barry Burton, Perry F. Rockwood, , Billy Bartlett, Larry Bartlett Herbert Noe, William P. Grady, Thomas Holland, Floyd Nolan Jones, Lawrence M. Vance, Kent Brandenburg, Douglas T. Stauffer, and Michael Maynard. {I personally recommend "Forever Settled" by Dr. Jack Moorman as an excellent "first book" - if you have never studied this issue in depth.}

Some of the aforementioned authors may not be KJB all the way, but they will be helpful in your search for information in trying to determine the TRUTH of this issue.

May God bless your endeavors on His behalf, and always keep in mind:

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

I'm in Eaton, brother...what church do you attend?

NCB
 

God Bless you brother, Tony. You're welcome anytime. Would love to have you. I'll pray the Lord blesses you financially, as we know he can. Hope to see ya there, it's just a little ol country church. After my message Friday night, we might be down a few more, but that's ok, the Truth will be preached regardless! My God have Mercy on us, no body wants to hear the truth. Oh well, I'll be praying for you brother!

Thank you Brother George. You're always a great help! God Bless You!!

Question
 

Ok, I've got to ask you men a question. In the "Church Age" we live in now (under Grace), can a person get saved w/out repentance? May need to open this up in a new discussion, but oh well.

KJV "copyright"
 

I want to throw another thing the Alexandrians throw at us: The KJV had a copyright, a CROWN copyright of 1/2 pence for each copy paid tpo the crown for the cost of translating the KJV and only binding on printers IN THE BRITISH EMPIRE, NOT worldwide. I don't know if the crown copyright is still in effect.

Like JWs, the Alexandrians are only interested in winning arguments so the sale of books is not interrupted.

Grace and Peace

Tony

I "translate" that several people left because of your message?

Remember Gideon and the 300. I know the mind of the Lord there, see I taught guerilla war at one time Clint. He can show His might in a small number.

When I get on my feet, Miracle Baptist is on my list when I go on my little tour:)

Grace and peace brother

Tony

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Clint, if the repentance you are talking about is defined as "works", where a person physically turns away from their sin, then YES is the answer to your question. We are saved because of Christ's works, not our own.

Agree
 

I agree Brother Tony. Don't know why they don't want to answer that question. It's a question I've been struggling with lately. I mean I agree with the Brother's response before mine. I know we're saved by GRACE through faith. But can a person really just believe in Jesus' existence and be saved? The bible says even the devils believe and they tremble, but is belief alone enough to save your soul from hell? Does not a person have to be drawn by the Holy Ghost and repent? Can a person have no intention whatsoever of turning from the sin and filth of this world, and just ask Jesus to save them just to avoid hell or use Jesus to get them out of their "problem"? I don't believe so! Anyway, can't wait to see you brother Tony! God's speed!

You are saved by Grace and Faith alone. But works tends to be a result after that. Part of those works could be considered turning away from sinful ways. But this is a complicated subject.

Read the Book of James again for some more info on the subject too. James and Paul emphasize different aspects of Salvation.

Re: "New Century"
 

Aloha brother Clint,

Sometimes the reason we don’t answer a question, is not because we don’t know the answer, but it gets tiresome (and a lot of work) repeating ourselves over and over again over an issue that is so very basic for anyone contemplating going into the ministry.

You asked the question: "can a person really just believe in Jesus' existence and be saved?" - the answer is NO! It is not enough to "believe in Jesus' existence" to RECEIVE the gift of eternal life (Salvation). A person must BELIEVE the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

In order to get saved a person MUST BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It is NOT enough to believe that Jesus Christ "existed" - lots of people believe that. A person MUST BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ. {That entails trusting in His FINISHED work on the Cross on our behalf ("Christ died for our SINS"), and Believing that His shed blood paid God's required price (for sin) and was sufficient for ALL of our sins.}

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The KEY verse that unlocks any confusion over one's salvation is John 1:12:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If a person truly BELIEVES ON the Lord Jesus Christ (not just that He existed), they become sons of God (through Christ's sacrifice), and I guarantee that God is NOT going to toss His sons into Hell!

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

As you pointed out: believing that Jesus Christ "existed" is NOT enough - the devils "believe and tremble". But on the other hand, IF you BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ - that's a whole different story, that makes all the difference in the world. {The difference between RECEIVING eternal life and NOT receiving it - that is why the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God is so important.}

The following Links cover much of the information you are seeking:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...86&postcount=5

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=84
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=117
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...1&postcount=12
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=261

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...71&postcount=1
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...0&postcount=30
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...77&postcount=5
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=107
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=254
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=247

The following Link tells what would happen to someone IF they could lose their salvation:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...82&postcount=1

Clint, the devils who believe were faced with Christ showing up to them in Person and saying, here I Am. These devils, evil spirits, are already damned, there is no salvation offered to them.

"Jailhouse religion" is calling on Jesus when we are busted, those with a criminal heart get out of jail, change identities, and continue in their crimes. So long Jesus.

"Repentence" is merely changing your mind, and many pop a cork when they see that the first recorded repentence in the bible was God:

Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Ex 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Every human is born with a throne in them, only one person can sit on that throne. Us, or God. When we unseat ourselves and let God sit, we change our minds towards Him and accept His sacrifice for us. That is Paul's gospel of Christ.

You have a problem all Christians have. Clint is going to do what he should not do and not do things he should. That's what Paul said. That's where grace abounds that while we are yet sinners He died for us. Sin is transgression of the law and you sin everytime you shave, according to the law.

Le 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Only Christ kept the law, proving we could NOT. HE TOOK OUR PLACE. None are good, no, not one, but Him. You are going to struggle with your flesh all your earthly life.

Be of good cheer my friend. Go to Romans 8 and tell me what can separate Clint from the love of Christ? We are created to PERFORM good works, but we cannot walk in them or the good works of others. Our walk is by FAITH, not by SIGHT. That faith given to us as a gift, the faith of Christ He had on the cross as He suffered, as told in Eph. 2.

If I can answer a question for you, you need only ask my friend. I am looking forward to meeting you.

Grace and peace

Tony

Gal. 2:1 ¶ Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

James 1:1 ¶ James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Monk, my friend, what tribe are you?

My aunt died of leukemia in 1973 and was saved on her deathbed. She died a few hours later. The capillaries in her body ruptured. She was a mass of bruises and looked like she had been in a barfight. She had no time to perform any works, either good or evil.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

According to James, not written TO me but FOR me, my aunt's faith was dead. Is she in hell?

I'm not being facetious. I'm asking a serious Bible question.

Grace and peace

Tony

Ambassadors For Christ, Pastor Bill Jennings. We are a small grace dispensational church, King James Only.

Grace and peace buddy

Tony

Duh, sorry about that. Bill's church is in New Carlisle.

Grace and peace

Tony

Thanks brother. Perhaps my wife and I will come visit some day, probably on a Saturday if I can get off work...

"According to James, not written TO me but FOR me, my aunt's faith was dead. Is she in hell?"

Yes I do believe she is saved and not in hell.

You misunderstand me but then again I can be vague sometimes. I do not define works as James did , that being converted Jews who still kept the law in that context. Since I am not a Jew, it does not mean the same thing to me, like you stated, it was not written to us, but for us.

I see works like this. You are saved now what do you do with yourself? Your works are simply how you show your salvation in your life with your actions. This will vary from person to person. It can be turning from sinful ways, that being, getting drunk all the time, "sleeping around", cursing a lot, etc etc etc. When you turn from those things, it can be considered a work of sorts.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but if I have some error, please show me.

It is an excellent question, and one that has caused a lot of confusion for people. I believe that the answer is that your aunt was given Christ's faith and along with it Christ's works. So her faith was "not without works."

Since, as James says, faith is dead without works, faith and works go hand-in-hand. The question is who's "faith" we have.

This changes for different dispensations. Note:

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

(His being "the just.")

But for us:

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Of course, we must have faith in Christ, and we must believe in Christ:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

I don't claim to have this all sorted out perfectly, but I do think it's clear that there is a difference between "of" and "in." The faith "of" Christ is a gift given to use by God after we believe:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(Side note: I think Calvinism has greatly misunderstood the above verse. This is not about being given belief, it is about being given the faith of Christ.)

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So whatever "works" that are required to make our faith "alive" (per James 2) have been done by Christ. That is not to say that we don't have our own works to do -- we do (1Th 1:3). But as for the works that bring us our righteousness and salvation, we can rest assured that someone far more reliable than ourselves is taking care of it.

Psalms 74:12 For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.

What an important alteration when moving from the OT to the NT! Inspired adjustment with new application.

Sounds good. Bill has services on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings, email me for his address and times. I have not been in a while, I have a family illness I've had to deal with for a number of weeks. We would be honored to have you:)

Grace and peace

Tony

Monk, pardon me if I left the impression I was being combative. It's hard to convey tone of voice and indeed, volume of what we are speaking. You and I have never spoken, in the future you should find me the least offensive of Internet contacts. Were we all in this thread together in person, you would hear my questions in an entirely different way than the impression I left.

My only catch is I see so much James being quoted and not enough Paul. That is each of our liberties to do. I guess I could give Dr. Ruckman a run for his money in facetiousness and sarcasm with the Alexandrian crowd, but not in a serious discussion of Scripture and doctrine with those I consider brethren, as you.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, as I said, as you get to know me you see I just speak my mind openly and while it looks contentious, it's not. Grace and peace to you, and let me offer you the right hand of fellowship and a great day today and all days.

Tony

"My only catch is I see so much James being quoted and not enough Paul"

You are correct :) People quote James a lot but do tend to leave out the proper context. But that error isn't restricted to James sadly.

I know. I believe every word of Leviticus, but it is not written "to" me. It is there for my admonition and study.

Grace and peace Monk.

Tony