The Lord's Supper - Worthy Conduct
 

Hi all,

"26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

1 Corinthians 11:26-34

I would like to know how each of you go about making yourselves worthy (if you don't mind sharing).

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Judge yourself and confess your sins to God and ask to be forgiven.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

These guys never judged themselves so the Lord judged them, and a lot worse things happened to them then if they would have just judged themselves. They became weak, sick, or died.

At the church I go to, we bow our heads before we start, and we give people time to fess up to the Lord if they haven't been doing it regularly (which every Christian should).

My sins have already been forgiven Kevin, past, present, and future. What Paul reveals to me in these passages is that there was a bar at the church of Corinth. You seem to be teaching forgiveness of sins through works, ours.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

I'll up you one Tony, I had my sins redeemed past, present and future. That doesn't mean the Lord isn't going to get the belt out and start whipping, and when the Lord swings, you might not get back up. My body of flesh still holds sins, but my soul is incorruptible, being cut off from the flesh.

Continued confession out of a contrite spirit is essential to having a continually closer fellowship with God.
This does NOT mean that confession, let alone continual, is in ANY way necessary for salvation.

Once I am reborn as a child of God, nothing can change that. But when I still sin against Him, it breaks, or rather strains our fellowship. Chastisement, confession, repentance and closer fellowship go hand-in hand AFTER salvation.

After the new birth, its impossible for the believer to have sin imputed unto him, but it definitely dwells in his body, and affects the relationship with God.
He will never leave me nor forsake me, but it is possible to grieve the Holy Spirit with sin.
I experience this often, and only once I confess to Him and get straight again, do I come back into His will.

As for the Lord's supper, the church I go to (IFBBB) doesn't practice it much at all. I think in the 1.5 years I've been there, they did it once.
As my parents began to attend my church, they came from one of those apostasy incorporated assemblies, and happened to be in charge of preparing the crackers, juice and trays over there. First Sunday of every month, like clockwork. When they came to my church, they felt like they were missing out since we don't have it often.
Now, in NO WAY are we hyper, denying the ordinance (not a sacrament), but rather it was explained thusly by our pastor:
Since much our congregation are converted Catholics, the pastor decided to have the Lord's supper less often in order to guard them from slipping back into religiosity and to avoid any newcomers of perceiving that this was necessary for salvation in any way.

My previous, MV church did have the communion table monthly, I did enjoy solemnly contemplating my Saviour's sacrifice, understanding full well that eating that cracker and juice didn't add to my salvation. However, when such a thing is practised regularly it does lend itself to being taken lightly by some in the assembly, and that's not healthy.

Doctrinally, I believe its for today as an ordinance, but not one that must necessarily be kept regularly in the congregation. I am still learning about it, and am interested to see what else this thread brings out.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

11:33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

This is my understanding. First, we should all know we are “worthy” based on receiving the perfect person, Jesus Christ, and believing in Him alone. As a believer and current follower of Christ, confessing my sin does not make or qualify me as a more “worthy” believer. Living a specific lifestyle does not make me “worthy” as a believer. Reading my Bible, praying, soul winning, eating vegetables, or drinking water does not make me “worthy” as a believer. Having perfect thoughts, perfect words, perfect attitudes, and perfect deeds does not make me “worthy” as a believer. Christ hath made us worthy. If you were required to come in observance of the Lord’s Supper as a “sinless” and “perfect” mortal human being then you would not qualify to observe the Lord’s Supper—none of us would.

But this is exactly what many teach regarding this particular passage in churches today. We are unworthy (they say) so in solemn, humble, and mournful defeat we should come crawling before the Lord’s Table and plead for forgiveness of our sins so as to not partake in an unworthy manner. We are told to confess sins that are already forgiven. Our sins are forgiven because they are washed in the precious blood of Christ! The erroneous counsel is: “You better come clean by ‘confessing’ all ‘known’ sins so you can be worthy and not die or become sick as a result of God’s judgment in your life”. The “legalist” and “controlling” pastor who fears teaching “grace” because there may be those who abuse it, ultimately uses this warning as an instrument to manage and legislate holy behavior in the member’s life. Some, on the other hand, do it simply because they aren’t really reading the scripture and what the words say.

If you are confessing sin in order to be forgiven and to become worthy you simply do not understand the power, efficacy, and finality of Christ’s blood and the forgiveness of sin—past, present, and future—that’s already yours in Christ.

Let me clearly say in no way am I suggesting that the truth of Biblical forgiveness is a divine permission slip that encourages you to go forth and commit random acts of sin freely. Understanding forgiveness actually promotes the faith, love, freedom, and desire necessary to obey Christ. Grace through Christ and the Holy Spirit operating with the sharp shears of God’s word keeps me “purged” and “pruned” so I will bring forth fruit, more fruit, even much fruit. We should always “repent” from sin as believers when the Lord, by the Holy Spirit, through His word opens our eyes to any and all personal sinful behavior.

But “confession” for the purpose of being “forgiven for sins” and “cleansed from all unrighteousness” for something that has already occurred (in the life of a believer) when we first came in faith to Christ, in my opinion, is not accurate teaching. Why confess sin that’s already washed in the precious blood of Jesus? Why confess sin in order to be cleansed from unrighteousness when you already are righteous in Christ? And please don’t say in order to restore fellowship with God. That is not what the scripture says. Our fellowship with God, as a believer who is now in Christ, is never broken. We are always in the light because God who is LIGHT dwells in us. Repent, yes. Confess, no.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Let me ask you a question, believer. Do we have redemption and forgiveness through His blood according to the riches of His grace? Why then do you need to “confess” sins you are already forgiven for? Does a “believer” confess their sins in order to restore fellowship? Is that what 1 John 1:9 says?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [Or does it say if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to restore our fellowship?]

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Are we “…the righteousness of God in him” only when we live in sinless perfection? Is that what the Holy Scripture is teaching?

The “unworthy” issue at the church in Corinth is clarified with this verse.

11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

They (the church at Corinth) failed to “discern the Lord’s body” and were therefore observing the Lord’s Supper in an unworthy manner. That was the issue. What does it mean to discern the Lord’s body? “Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.” And “This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Remember? As often as we observe the Lord’s Supper let us remember that He died for our sins, was buried, rose again the third day, and is ascended where He sits in final rule and authority. Remember you are cleansed, washed, declared righteous, and reconciled with God through Christ Jesus. The Lord’s Supper is a time of remembrance that causes me to rejoice in and boast in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Very helpful. Thank you for this post.

My point exactly, someone had set up a bar at the church in Corinth.

Grace and peace

Tony

I agree with Forrest it is not about making ourselves worthy or acceptable. Corinth was a very carnal church the description of 1Cor 11 is that of carnal Christians not caring for each other and the one who died for us. the supper is to remember what he has done for us not to feed our flesh. it is to remember his bodily sacrifice for our sins and that we are now part of Him and we are no longer to be living sinfully.

There is nothing wrong to ask, have I been living as if I am part of His Body? How am I treating him since I believed he died for me? Do I care for my brethren in Christ? do I see them as part of His Body? Or do I see them as a benefit to me? do I look down on them? If I do I am looking down on Christ himself. a healthy body check that needs to be judged not for reward or punishment for for correct understanding of what Christ did and who he is everyday.

That is correct brother, in the busy world we live in it's easy to forget what Christ has done for us...

23 "For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." I Cor. 11:23-25

I agree with Forrest, the command for the Lord's Supper is to do this in "remembrance of me (Jesus)"

But you know, when we stop and really consider this, you can't help but be convicted of sin. Sometimes we forget as Christians what it was like before we were saved, how we were under the penalty of death, and rightfully so. And we forget the amazing love that God had for us even though we were ungodly sinners.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We've heard this verse so much that we have forgotten how wonderful it was when we first heard it as lost sinners. We were doomed and without hope, appointed for destruction. But God still loved us so very much that he gave his Son Jesus to die for us.

When I stop and really meditate on this, I do become very ashamed that I have not lived as well as I ought as a Christian.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So, I don't think a Christian who really stops and considers the great love God showed for us by giving his Son Jesus can help but be convicted of sin.

Luke 7:36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.
37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,
38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.
39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. 44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

So, when we stop and consider ourselves, and remember the great love God had for us in giving his Son Jesus, we cannot help but love him back.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Brother, if there was any way possible I could remember them all and would have to go through the law of Moses to see the number I transgressed day by day, would you like me to try and give you a list of sins I committed today? Not yesterday or the day before, but just this day, today? Am I in a forum of Bible fundamentalists or Nazarene holiness?

Eph. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Col. 2:Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Brother, have I missed three things: Did John Wesley join this forum, and are these passage above written in present, or past tense, and do I walk by faith, and not by sight? I've never been baptized in water, I've never took what is called "communion" but one time in my life, and I've never "confessed" anything to anybody but on the day of my salvation I spoke aloud in a Sunday school class at the age of 12, God, forgive me through Christ's blood, a sinner.

Where am I incomplete and what is God gonna do to me?

Grace and peace

Tony

Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Greetings Brother!

I think it's significant that Paul answered his own question.

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The way I read this passage is that Christ hath delivered me (us) once, for all time and there is absolutely nothing I could ever do to make myself any more delivered than I already am in Christ at this very moment.

Ephesians 1:7 – In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Let me ask you some questions for your prayerful consideration. Do we have redemption and forgiveness through His blood according to the riches of His grace? Do we have it right now to the full? If so, why do you need to “confess” sins you are already forgiven for? Does a “believer” confess their sins in order to restore their fellowship with God? Is that what 1 John 1:9 really says? For years that is what I told people it meant. But that's not what it says.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Or do we confess our sins in order to restore our fellowship with God? What does the Bible say? Please consider what I am asking. Personally, I begin seeing this passage in 1 John differently as I grew in grace and in the knowledge of Christ. As I begin to receive by faith His preeminence in all things and my completeness in Him alone, I began to simply repent of sin and praise and thank Him for what He has already done at the cross.

It really is finished.

Why must we confess our sins to be cleansed from all unrighteousness when the Bible clearly says I'm already the righteousness of God in Christ? Be careful about going back to that “in order to restore fellowship with God” thing again. Remember, we are not told to confess our sins in order to restore fellowship. That is not what the Bible says.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Are we “…made the righteousness of God in him” only when we live in sinless perfection by confessing our sins? What happens to those believers who might overlook confessing a particular sin? (Thought, word, deed, attitude?) Are they out of fellowship with God, no longer in the light, and in darkness? Is that what the Holy Scripture is really teaching?

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If "walking in the light as he is in the light" here represents holy action, obedient submission, and sinless behavior in the life of a believer rather than positional reality then we must conclude that when we sin we are no longer in the light, no longer in fellowship with God through Christ, and no longer being cleansed by the powerful and precious blood of Christ and that confession is a requirement to reactivate the forgiveness of sins and cleansing effectiveness from all unrighteousness.

Again, what happens if we overlook a sin and fail to confess it? It’s all or nothing with God. God requires absolute sinless perfection. I don’t know about you but this reality causes me to thank God for the precious blood and body of Christ that was given for me on the cross. In Christ, I am forgiven, cleansed, and made the very righteousness of God all the time in the midst of personal sin. That's justification. I am not justified because I've stopped sinning. I'm justified even though I do sin.

This truth causes me to hate sin not love it. This truth makes me sensitive to right not insensitive. Most all this truth helps me to live without any condmnation. Christ hath made me the righteousness of God. Wow!

We do have an example of a saved believer who is told to pray and ask forgiveness for a sin after conversion. It is Simon who was beforetime a sorcerer in Acts 8.

Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

So, here we have a believer who sinned, and Peter told him to repent of his wickedness, and pray to God for forgiveness.

Forrest, I'm trying to see your angle on this...

I'm not sure why you have a problem with the word "confess" brother, it still seems you are ignoring the plain instructions to confess any sin in our life to God. For me it's done almost in one breath, I confess it (identify it, name it) and ask God to forgive me for it. Why is that a problem—that is what 1 John 1:9 instructs us to do. I guess the "fellowship thing" can be debated, but whether or not we totally understand what is written in 1 John 1:9, confession is certainly there, and that's because confessing is part of God's plan for us to recognize and deal with the sins in our lives.

Why do we confess our sins to be cleansed from all unrighteousness?
Because we can stumble in sin, and all sin is unrighteousness. (I John 5:17)

The simple fact is, we can and do grieve the Holy Spirit of God, and carrying around habitual sin without confessing it and putting it away is not a good place to be. These sins can not change our blessed position in God's family, but they can still have grave consequences in our daily lives and rob us of our joy. It seems to me that the idea of "fellowship" is part of this passage...

"If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." I John 1:6-7

It seems to me the context is God's children and sin...

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" I John 2:1

I agree and rejoice with you 100% that positionally we are justified and "it is finished." However, we cannot confuse our positional forgiveness with the need for ongoing forgiveness and cleansing as we stumble in sin. Christians are still quite capable of any sin you can imagine; and that's why the writer of Ephesians mentions putting away bitterness, wrath, and anger, evil speaking etc. and tells his readers to "grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. — Eph. 4:22-32

Winman,

To what was Simon the sorcerer saved? he had not received the Holy Ghost and was wanting to purchase the power to give it to others but he himself had not received it.

Why did the people in Samaria need to have hands laid on them from the Apostles if they were preaching the Gospel of Grace as you believe they did? if indeed they were receiving the Gospel of grace putting hands on someone to receive the Holy Ghost was wrong because under the gospel of grace you receive the Holy Ghost the moment you believe. Eph 1:13, 14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

or could it be they were not preaching the gospel of Grace but of the Gospel of the Kingdom? which is the Gospel of Acts 8. I refer you to Georges study on right division of Acts.

In which case it was necessary for those in Samaria to submit to Jerusalem Religious leadership (in this case Christ set up a new leadership via the Apostles) because Samaria had rebelled against Jerusalem and had set up its own religious center and worship in OT times.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

What would constitute eating and drinking unworthily today? and if they are saved what is meant by the term damnation?

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

The same damnation that you would get for these sins. It definitely isn't eternal damnation in hell, and more than likely is the chastening of the Lord since that it what you will recieve for not judging yourself and not discerning the Lord's body. Unless you aren't saved, then you are going to hell already because you aren't cleansed from the blood, and taking the Lord's supper without being saved wouldn't make you go to hell any more than that.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I think you guys keep overlooking the fact that it is our soul that is now sinless, being put off from the body of sins of the flesh. Our flesh is not sanctified or righteous in any respect unless we work for it by mortifying the deeds of the flesh. Our soul and our spirit have been redeemed, but our body is still waiting for the coming of the Lord Jesus.

what are we today to judge ourselves for in light of the context of 1 Cor 11?

Now the Lords body would be not only his physical body we are to remember he sacrificed, but also the spiritual body of which we are part of. so in light of that should we judge ourselves as to our attitude or lack of proper use of gifts that are meant to edify the body? How we treat other Christians whom are his body? As well as misusing the freedom we have because of the sacrifice of Christ's body for us? such as walking willfully in sinfulness?

What are we to examine and judge today in the context of these passages?

I ask because I would rather teach a truth than a tradition. which is what it seems we are by asking people to examine themselves before taking the Lord supper.

When I accepted Christ as my personal Saviour, I did realized that I am a sinner or repented of my sins and confess Jesus in my heart.

Simply, I didn't confess my sins, I repented of my sin. I didn't confess my sins but I did confess Jesus to be my Saviour.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

As an assurance, I know I am saved from

1. the Penalty of sin (Past)
2. the Power of sin (Present)
3. the Presence of sin(Future)

Yes we are complete in Him because Christ completed it in the cross of Calvary. "Nothing would I bring unto Him simply to thy Cross I cling". "Nothing but the blood of Jesus".

1 Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

Thanks to God that I am not offended but if...:D

Chette, this passage creates much more difficulty for you than me. You are correct, Simon had not received the Holy Spirit, neither had anyone else in Samaria. But notice they were all baptized in the name of Lord Jesus.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Verse 16 gives you a problem, because you believe the Holy Spirit was received through baptism in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

But in Acts 8, these believers were all baptized in the name of Jesus, yet they had not received the Holy Spirit. So this argues against what you have previously said. You will probably argue they were not Jews. But that won't work either, for what of Saul (Paul) in the next chapter?

And we see this again in Acts 9 when Ananias lays hands on Saul (Paul) that he might receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost. But Paul was baptized afterward. And Paul is a Jew.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

So here Saul (Paul) received his sight and was filled with the Holy Ghost when Ananias laid hands on him, and afterward
was baptized.

Then in Acts 10 the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius, his kinsmen, and near friends by simply hearing the gospel.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So, these believers also did not need be baptized to receive the Holy Ghost.

And there is absolutely no indication that any of the believers in Acts 8, 9, and 10 were hearing a different message than those in Acts 2. But these were not Jews.

In fact, Acts 11 confirms it was exactly the same for Cornelius as it was for the believers in Acts 2.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

First, verse 15 shows they received the Holy Ghost by hearing the gospel in Acts 2, not baptism. Verse 18 shows that this gospel was for forgiveness of sins (repentance unto life), not the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.

It is very clear if you read carefully. And I have already pointed out that Jesus told the apostles it was not for them to know when the kingdom would be restored to Israel in Acts 1. And I cannot believe the Holy Spirit would inspire Peter to preach this restoration of the kingdom upon their "repentance for killing Jesus" (what you have said repeatedly) immediately after the Lord said this.

Where, in all of the book of Acts, is it said that the kingdom would be restored to Israel if they repent of killing Jesus? Where? Show me the verses.

Hi Brothers. I wanted you to know that I am working on a more detailed explanation to my posts on this thread and some of your legitimate concerns and issues you raised. I'm not ignoring you.

As some of you know, I have Multiple Sclerosis and it's very difficult for me to type and sit in my wheelchair for a long time. I peck away with one finger like a bird eating seed. It's really kind of funny to look at. Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your comments on this issue and please know that I love you brethren (and sistren) in the LORD.

1 John 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

We love you too brother Forrest, God bless...

no problem Forrest.

did anyone catch Winman using Acts 11 to prove those in Act 2 and 3 we saved under the gospel of Grace through faith alone? talk about wrongly joining the word of truth.

I am not even going to answer a man who refuses to rightly divide the word of truth. disobedience is subtle sometimes.

Greetings Brother Winman. Thanks for bringing that passage and verse to our (my) attention. I may be wrong on this but I don't see this as "confessing" a sinful thought for the specific purpose of being forgiven of sin and cleansed from all unrighteousness. I continue to recall the scriptures that teach we are forgiven and made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Let me say right off that this COULD BE understood by others that forgiveness is always conditional to the confession of our sins--over and over again. Personally I don't understand the above verses to mean that.

Concerning your reference to this verse:

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

After Simon is told to pray God, I believe the words "if," "perhaps," "heart," and "may be" are all relevant in this specific verse and helps us to understand that the word forgiven means pray that God will help him get rid of the thought. It perhaps, may or may not occur--perhaps.

In my humble (and I mean that, brother) opinion, I believe that when we confess our sins prior to receiving and believing in Christ, that is to say we agree with God and say with our mouth that we have sins (for "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8) then HE is faithful to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No "if," "perhaps," or "may be" about it. The issue to me was Simon needing a change of heart, not simply a one time "quick fix" and reapplication of Christ's blood through confession of his sinful thought so he could be forgiven of that thought until the next time. Peter was obviously not saying all you have to do is pray, confess, and God will forgive you.

I often pray asking God to remove (forgive) sinful thoughts or attitudes. But I'll be honest with you, brother, the things I should do, I don't, and the things I should not do, I do. O wretched man that I am! I thank God through Jesus Christ that I am delivered once and for all from this body of death wrought by sin and that my fellowship with HIM, righteousness in Christ, and forgiveness for sins is never conditional to my confession of those sins now that I am washed in the precious blood of Jesus Christ his Son that cleanseth me from all sin.

We (and others) may never agree on the confession issue. There are many things we could address regarding this issue. I'll pray God and perhaps, may be, if my heart is stirred, and if I am led of the Spirit, I'll write a post on confessing sin. :smile:

For anyone delving into this issue of confession and fellowship as it applies to our daily walk with Christ, you may want to check out this thread also...
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343&page=3

Chette said;

Nice Chette. Truth is, you cannot answer it.

Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This verse is very straightforward and easy to undertstand. Peter is saying the Gentiles received the like gift as they did in Acts 1 "who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ".

This proves that these Gentiles heard the same gospel that was preached to the Jews in Acts 1. It was the gospel to believe on the Lord Jesus for forgiveness of sins and to receive everlasting life, not the restoration of the kingdom of Israel.

Do a little word study. Look up the word "gospel" in the book of Acts. The very first mention is Acts 8:25

Acts 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

This is the very first mention of any gospel in the book of Acts. And it says Peter and John preached it to the Samaritans. It is after the stoning of Stephen.

There is no mention of the "gospel of the kingdom" in the entire book of Acts. Study and see for yourself. It is not mentioned even once.

Now look up the word "kingdom" in the book of Acts. You will find in all instances except Acts 1:6, that it is always used as the "kingdom of God". The one exception is Acts 1:6 where it says "kingdom to Israel". This is when the apostles asked Jesus if the kingdom would be restored to Israel "at this time", to which the Lord said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So, you can falsely accuse me of not rightly dividing the word all you want, doesn't make it so. The fact is, there is nowhere in Acts where the apostles are preaching the restoration of Israel if the Jews repent of killing Jesus.

I know this is in the wrong thread, but I wanted to answer your baseless accusation. I challange you to show me even one verse in the book of Acts that says the Lord will restore the kingdom to Israel if the Jews repent of killing Jesus.

Show me the verse.

I could but I wont.

I am not FALSELY accusing you of not rightly dividing. I am accusing you of wrongly joining scripture to prove a point. when I see people do that that is it I wont deal with them any more. it is like dealing with a JW. you can't get anywhere with someone who has a preconceived view of scripture and who wrongly joins the word of truth

So I didn't even pay to much attention to post 29.

sorry I bow out you will have to refer questions of the kingdom presentation in the book of Acts to George

So, you accuse me of willful disobedience, but you will not answer my question to show me one definite verse in the book of Acts where the apostles are preaching the restoration of the kingdom of Israel if the Jews repent of killing Jesus?

Right :rolleyes:

And why do you tell me to go to Bro George? Can't you speak for yourself?

It's OK, I'm going to drop this subject, at least on this thread as it is off topic. I may give another answer in the appropriate thread.

how much I don't see Jesus in your answer as to why I don't want to answer you.

disobedience I said is subtle, if you are being willful that is between you and God.

George is covering the topic on the book of Acts, Israel and the Kingdom offer of the early chapters of Acts in another thread. And I believe we have been showing you scripture verses as to which Gospel (which is the offer) they are teaching but you always say "You don't see it that way". We can only do that so long then it gets tiring and argumentative.

so in light of that and in the spirit of love I now stop my part of the discussion.