Amen! Yes of course you are absolutely right, we are dead to the law.
My Statement>
I probably could have worded that statement better

I Know that I am to have no other gods before him
I know that I should not make graven images of, or bow down to, other gods.
I know I shouldn't take the Lords name in vain
I know that I should honour my father and my mother
I know not to commit adultery
I know not to steal
I know not to Kill
I know not to bear false witness against my neighbour
I know not to covet my neighbour's house / wife / possessions

I realise that these commandments are our moral guideline and that we are not UNDER the law in the sense that breaking these commandments will result in the same punishment to those who where in time past UNDER the law, ie Old Testament Israel
Example in Exodus I stated in an above post

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

The fact that the moral law is still in place has nothing to do with being saved by the law.

We are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ...not by keeping the law.

But the law is something that a believer strives to keep out of a deep love of God, not something to obtain the love of God...rather to show God our love to Him.

I notice that there are folks who are quoting men to make their point.

When i quote men to make a point i am criticized for it...i wonder if there will be any criticism leveled at the quotes of men from the opposing side?

The Bible says..
 

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Larry, with all due respect...that's ALL you Calvinists do is quote MEN...LOL!

I mean, take a look at your signature for the love of God, it's Martin Luther! :pound:

I appreciate what George has done here, the articles he has written but I'm certainly not going to be quoting him in my signature anytime soon, I can assure you. :D

Consider these scripture testimony of the book of Revelation as to it being prophecy

Rev 1:3 ¶ Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

These are the last days and they have been for the last 2000 years. none of which has taken place yet.

Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

the days of their prophecy has yet to take place

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

the same words were used in Rev1:3 but none of what is in the book of Rev has taken place nor has the Lord "come quickly"

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

you have added to the Words of Paul by saying his letters teach men to obey the ten commandments

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

of course with you Calvinistic view you don't think you could have your name removed from the book of Life for adding to Paul's letter that he taught men to keep the Ten commandments.

maybe you for got this:

Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: You will notice that keep the law is separated from the ceremonial law of circumcision.
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; NO ten commandments were laid upon believers.
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


please be careful of your personal tone in your responses some may take offense. Religion is a man made thing to honor men like Presbyterian Religion, Lutheran Religion and Roman Catholic Religion all are unbiblical full of ceremony and pomp. but God is Spirit and he wants us to worship him in Spirit and Truth not be religious. It is not the outward show of religion that God looks at. it is the heart.

For my Spiritual freedom which was given me in Christ, He suffered and paid the cost with his Life, I have suffered many hardships for his name sake, But I count it all loss to know Christ and Him Crucified that I might give him all the glory and that is worth more than any religion could ever give.

Re: "http://www.av-1611.com ? ?"
 

larryb said in his Post #32:
Aloha all,

I do not mean to "pile-on" poor Larry, since he has left us, but IF "Satan has been bound" (the Bible says for "a thousand years") - just exactly WHEN was he "bound"? And IF he is "bound" WHO (in the world) is causing all of the havoc, chaos, and confusion (i.e. deceit) in our present world? :confused:

I can understand how some of the Reformers might have believed that the church was bringing in the "kingdom" - what with the ouster of Roman Catholicism in much of Europe and England and with the world wide Missionary endeavor that was taking place then. But HOW can someone who has lived in the 20th. Century or now in the 21st. Century possibly believe that "Satan has been bound" with all of the EVIL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to the contrary staring him in the face? :confused:

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

WHERE is the "evidence" that the church is bringing in the "kingdom" today - when all around us all that we see is APOSTASY?

The moral law is not in place. This is seventh day adventist teaching that originated in the reformed church which came out of Rome.

There is only one law in place. The law of liberty in Christ. We are not "free to keep the law" we are "free to let Christ be our life!". We look to him. We let ourselves be taken away by His holiness and beauty. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in Him. His life in us will produce fruits that will last forever.

"For sin shall not have dominion over you for Ye are not under law, but under grace!"


Do you want to live a holy life? GET RID OF THE LAW! The law is the ministration of SIN and DEATH!

How do we live?

Galatians 2:20

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

LAW has no part in a Christians life. The Christians life is CHRIST'S life in us (Col 3:4).

:amen: Brother Luke!!

Larryb, seven times in that chapter of Revelation it mentions 1000 years. Do you take that literally? I will assume you don't.. but for what reason?

If you do take it literally, then the time that the thousand years began could only be the reformation, which means we have about 500 more years until Christ returns.

EDIT: I am addressing Larryb's reformed amillennial theology. I do not believe Christ will come in 500 years, but much much sooner.

WHEW! Can anyone even IMAGINE how PUTRID things would get if it was another 500 years before Christ returns!!!

Wow, this one really took off on a tangent, LOL. :D However, it's good reading nonetheless.

I kinda figured once larryb posted some reformed theology snippets for the fine folks here...it would liven things up a bit. :D

I ONLY added a very small cup of fuel to the fire. :D

:behindsofa:

:popcorn:

I think it is a sad state of affairs when most Christians believe the history channel, discovery channel and the public education system when they teach evolution. Kent Hovind was instrumental in getting me out of that thought pattern.

The problem is: If one believes that the earth has been here for billions of years, then we have to make the bible fit this false science. This is the number one thing destroying faith in word of God in my opinion and will lead to many......uhh... distorted views of what is so plainly given to us in scripture as fact.

Remember that I am one of those weirdos.

I believe the bible literally unless instructed by the word to do so differently.

6 days of creation = 6000 years
1 day of rest = 1000 years mill. reign.

God likes the number seven a lot!

God seems to be very interested in numbers as well. I started seeing all kinds of things when I started paying attention to numbers.

I don't think God is trying to make it that hard for his creation to understand what he wants us to know. There are some nuggets of wisdom and knowledge in his word that he reveals to us when we study though.


Brother-Smith

Has anyone read Harold Camping's Time Has an End? He is predicting the Second Coming in the fall of 2011.

AMR

Well I have come to the conclusion that 2011 is a good time based on some calculations. but I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet. I based it on a prophecy of Jesus Christ and came up with 2011 as well.

Another man shared with me why he believes it will be 2011 that is because there was 400 years of silence between old and new testaments. and the KJV Bible will be 400 years old in 2011.

What reason does he give for his belief it will be in 2011?

I know you folks aren't preaching a date, but there is no profit in speculating about dates for the return of the Lord.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I believe in the imminent return of Christ, but Christ's return was imminent even when Paul was penning Scripture (1Th 4:15).

We are told to "watch" and "be ready." That should be enough.

I hope I don't have to wait that long (2011) :) . I'm listenin' for the trumpet right now! Watching and praying, serving and studying. I want to be about my Father's business!

Listening for the trumpet
 

Hello all,


I don't believe in date setting ever since high school in 88'.
I remember sitting in class waiting till 10:15 because that was when it was going to happen. Hmm... didn't happen. (YET!)

I understood at that moment that date setting was not healthy.

That being said, I love the topic and speculation!

I remember reading in James Usher's Annals of the world book that he came up with 4004 B.C. as a starting point for time. Taking into account the change in calendar years between the Jews/Romans, that puts us in the ballpark with a hotdog, doing the seventh inning stretch.

Even future-potential-bloodwashed-believers know something is up. I try to study many different angles to be able to communicate in hopes that a witnessing opportunity might pop up.:)

Anyone else want to get into a thread along these lines?


Brother-Smith

Brothers AMR & Chette,

It could happen then. I'm open to God's timetable. I'm not going to be setting any dates myself. Like Brother Tim says - WATCH and be READY.

The fools who have predicted dates - even HOURS - lost their credibility. It is foolishness to be so specific. Speculation is OK. Just don't pin it down to IT WILL HAPPEN - just keep it at "MAY." That's good enough.

Brother Brandon - I don't think that giving a very general time period of "Fall of 2011" is preaching a DATE. The Lord said we will not know the HOUR or DAY. He didn't say we will not know the SEASON or YEAR. I don't see anything wrong with knowing the SEASONS and being READY. We can't just close our eyes and not see all that is happening around us and say, "NAH! He's not coming now!" The truth is we don't know! But the Lord did tell us that we could have an INDICATION of when these things might occur.

Jassy

Who is saying "he's not coming now?" Not me -- the person you are replying to. I said I believe the coming of Christ is imminent. Who is this person who is saying he can't come back before the 2011? Who dares limit Christ in that way?

I understand your point, but you are being highly technical by saying we can put a year on the return because Scripture only says we can't put a "day" or "hour" on it.

Look at it this way: by 2011, there will have been over 1900 years since the Lord was working his earthly ministry. That's over 7,600 "seasons." I don't think anybody should be nailing down a particular "season" just because he can "get away" with not saying what day during the season.

If 2012 comes without the return of Christ, what will you do with the false prophets that said he would return in 2011?

Camping is a mess and date setting is a pernicious error. Nothing good has ever come of it, only shipwrecked faith and "christian" cults like SDA, etc. It should be avoided like the plague.

to clarify my position. I am not saying he is tied down to any date I have reckoned. he could come tomorrow, or 1000 years from now.

it is always fun to speculate with scripture of course.

here is mine Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. speaking of the Tribulation.

From a certain time (70AD) up unto 1948 Israel was not a nation. in 1948 Israel was back in the land. Jesus says generation that could be, 30, 70 or 100 years. 30 is already past. 70 will be in 2018, minus 7 years for the tribulation 2011.

But we do not put our trust in this. But actually in God's perfect time he will return.

Another interesting is current events and scripture. For example Gore is pushing global governance for climate control, and at the G8 summit those countries all agree not to let the global temperature rise more than 2 degrees Celsius. One it is humanly impossible for them to even think such.

But what greater joy would God have than to mess up there grand and glorious plan with these verses that happens during the Great Tribulation, Rev 16:8, 9 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

These two verses go right against their climate pact they made just this last week. obvious great heat is a lot hotter than 2 degrees Celsius.

we are to watch and be ready not to be caught off guard.

1Thess 5:1-10 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

It is fun to speculate, but we must remember our duty to tell others of Christ. Because the time is short (life in general) I have a burden for men. I was witnessing yesterday to an American in the Hospital here. When I mentioned the name of Jesus Christ, he became very angry almost violent saying things he heard but not truth. I calmly tried to continue but he was hard as a rock. He said he hates that name. what a shame I will see him again and we will see if I can squeeze in a little more witness for Jesus Christ.

Hi, Chette. I didn't think you were a date setter but I would never condone even speculating about one because a lot of christians might get the wrong idea. Harold Camping is a liar and a deceiver, setting dates and calling Jesus a liar, spiritualizing away the plain meaning of scripture, he has a lot to answer for. I'm a prophesy buff, always have been, previously to the exclusion of weightier matters like spreading the gospel. This climate change thing is not about controlling the earth's temperature but about controlling people through onerous tax burden and supra-national organization leading the way to one world government. OWG sets the stage for the rise of the anti-christ. I would love to see a prophecy thread.

Jen

I agree!
Give me a nice clean, cheap motel anytime. Camping is for raccoons.

:D



Sorry, couldn't hep it.

As long as there's an outlet for my blowdryer then I am happy.:pound:

Just remember, this means I get to inject humor into your next rant, if I can come up with something funny. :D

See http://www.timehasanend.org/public/thae_ch10.html

AMR

actually Jen,

I never set a date. I really just added numbers and subtracted numbers according to our current time table Calender.

However I don't tell people this is a for sure event. so many times people do that and God proves them wrong. I know God could prove it wrong.

But if it were that close and you knew it what would you do? Sell you house? give all your possessions away?

I know I wouldn't. that is what the early church did and many ended up poor and destitute. Paul was commissioned to bring them money so they could survive.

No, live each day as if he will come and reach out to others with the word of God. Keep to your responsibilities of family like he wont return for 1000 years.

Actually I am not a date setter. Like I said it is amusing and speculative. Others use numbers to speculate or see great things in numbers God uses. this is no different.

I do not "rant", I am a gentleman. :jaw:

Pardon me, sir, I must have been mistaken!!! You are a gentleman, indeed.

Brother Brandon,

I apologize if I spoke wrongly or if I supported something that you disagree with. One thing I wish to make clear: I'm not the one who PREDICTED the Fall 2011 date. I agree 100% that Christ could come ANY time. That is why I say it's POSSIBLE. I'm not a date-setter. You will never find me giving a time, day, month, season or year when the Lord will return. You are totally correct that 2012 could come and go by without the return of Christ.

I'm sorry if I said something that gave the wrong impression that I totally agreed with the date of Fall 2011. Saying that something MAY or COULD happen does not mean that it WILL. And I am not the type of person to be setting dates or following after someone who does that.

While it's possible that the Lord COULD return in 2011. It's also possible that He could return tomorrow or an undetermined number of years or "seasons" from now.

I didn't mean that I could put a year or a seaon on it. I wouldn't be so foolish to do that. People can speculate all they like - it doesn't mean that it will happen... nor that I agree it will happen.

I apologize if I said something wrong or if I seemed to agree with a date of 2011. I want to make it clear that I don't agree. The FACT remains that Christ told us only to WATCH and BE READY.

My concern is mostly for complacent Christians who think they have all the time in the world; therefore, they're not watching, nor will they be ready, if the LORD should return soon.

I apologize again if something that I wrote offended you. It was certainly not intentional. I have great respect for you and I love this forum and the blessed opportunity that it provides for me to fellowship with other KJV Bible believers.

Jassy

Most days I am praying the Lord comes before I can even hit the "submit" button on a post!
I know in this life we have family, new marriages in the Lord, new parents expecting their first Child. My Sister in fact is to give Birth to my new niece in September (God willing), and On one hand I pray that the Lord may Tarry just a little while longer, but in every waking second until that time we hear that blessed call, I hope and pray my eyes are fixed and focused homeward-bound, looking for the Glorious appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't want to know when, I just want to be ready.
Even so...Come Lord Jesus.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

I was not offended in the least. You don't have to worry about that. :-)

Chette,

Sorry I had such a strong response. I feel strongly about the issue. I know you aren't setting a date. Although I don't agree with trying to look for a possible date, it seems like the time is near. I think of how christians must have felt in times of heavy persecution in the past (and presently, in some parts of the globe). And during times when would be anti-christs have appeared on the world scene. I don't think we can say that the 7 year tribulation necessarily starts directly after the rapture (I'm not saying you think that, either) because everything would have to line up just right but we know we could be raptured at any moment.

I'm glad you bring up the fact that we should live each day as if He will come and reach out to others. I would covet your prayers that I would be given that boldness. I look forward to meeting you in glory someday.

blessings,

Jen

I did not realize that, Brother Luke. I don't know a lot about the "Seventh Day Adventist". I have a friend (older brother) who continually reminds me that we are not obligated to keep the ceremonial laws but we are to keep the "Ten Commandments" (moral law). He quotes Hebrews a lot. "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" (Hebrews 10:16-17). He is a former (years ago) "Seventh Day Adventist" preacher.

:amen: Well said.

I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that God gave two commandments that are directed to us today:

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Scripture certainly supports this truth:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

the funny thing is Forrest is the 10 commandment are both moral and ceremonial. But the Sabbath day observance is most definitely a Ceremonial law as no ceremonies could be done outside the Sabbath day and were done in the temple. Sacrifices were done on the Sabbath those are Ceremonial. the Bible will makes fools of them if they would believe it.