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Abortion doctor killed
It looks like those goose-stepping Catholic socio-psychopaths at Christian Identity are at it again. Eric Robert Rudolph Lives!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tiller_shooting This is not how it is done. 2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; ) Grace and peace friends Tony |
Horrible. Very sorry to see this happen in this fashion, (it's not good for the pro life movement). I would have loved to have seen him repent and be saved, some of the most virulent pro-lifers were former abortion people. If it had to happen, I would have preferred to see him terminated in a capital punishment setting, where he could have got a lethal injection or electrocution for murdering over 60,000 human babies. I'm not happy that someone felt the need to deal with it like that, but then again—I see no difference between what Tiller was doing and a man who was routinely murdering 10 year old kids via premeditated murder. Sometimes it takes violence to stop violence. Either way, Tiller the Killer was a MASS MURDERER who got what he deserved, and I'm sorry to say it—but that bullet is now the least of his problems.
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Atheist Canada just had to print this story as one of the "top stories".
featured in one of the most read newspaper in Toronto. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/643502 |
You can't help but notice, like most media spins, the headline on that article sets the stage for a slanted presentation right from the start...
notice the title that given to the Pro-Life camp is NEVER PRO-LIFE, it is always "opponent," or "anti abortion," or in this case the title is simply "ABORTION FOES." Here is how the word "FOE" is described by Dictionary.com: foe [foh] –noun 1. a person who feels enmity, hatred, or malice toward another; enemy: a bitter foe. 2. a military enemy; hostile army. 3. a person belonging to a hostile army or nation. 4. an opponent in a game or contest; adversary: a political foe. 5. a person who is opposed in feeling, principle, etc., to something: a foe to progress in civil rights. 6. a thing that is harmful to or destructive of something: Sloth is the foe of health. This subtle tactic is very typical in the media, and sets the tone for the entire article, even though as the article goes on to report; just last month, a Gallup Poll found that 51 percent of Americans now call themselves PRO-LIFE. |
What an outrage! :drama:
I guess I have to be politically correct and say this was a terrible thing. Two abortion doctors have been killed in the U.S. since 1998. I wonder how many innocent babies have been murdered since then?? |
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Grace and peace Tony |
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Grace and peace Tony |
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I agree no individual had the right to take his life in that fashion, but what on earth makes you think he didn't have the "chance" for salvation? I think Mr. Tiller probably was presented with more gospel tracts than almost every other person in modern history, and has been rejecting God and the Gospel for a long, long, time. Quote:
"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Genesis 9:6 Quote:
funny how the T-word has now resurfaced... Anti-abortion violence is form of terrorism? http://www.examiner.com/x-3035-Every...m-of-terrorism Will Obama Use Anti-Terror Tools Against the Anti-Abortion Assasins? http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...rtion-Assasins WAS THE MURDER OF GEORGE TILLER TERRORISM? http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/t...f_george_tille |
Tony
I was being a little sarcastic in my post. I am not happy about someone shooting this abortion doctor, and I think it was wrong. I do not, nor have ever condoned this type of action. That said, I am not overly upset about it either. And it really doesn't matter what pro-life supporters do, the abortionists are going to call us all sorts of evil names no matter what. Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! |
Here's the thing I sometimes struggle with...
If you knew a proven serial killer who has already killed 50,000 people was standing over a 10 year old child in the process of butchering the child with a knife, and you had the ability to stop him with a gun, would you do it? |
based on the current investigation. he was involved in anti-us govt groups and a church that practiced OT law religiously.
he didn't believe in paying Income tax (sound familiar BroP) and joined a church that yolked himself under OT law. The whole movement Gary DeMarr and others are into (which Kent Hovind was too) is so extreme that it will produce these types of people. there teaching not only includes the unconstitutionalism of taxation by the US Govt but also that the US should be guided by the Bible (OT) for its rules and regulations as they say it was from the founding fathers. But to be fare the Man was a mental case he will get life in a mental hospital just you wait and see. they will find him unfit to stand trial and he will be confined to a hospital until such time he is fit. |
I have to agree with Tony. The shooter also was likely a patsy of the satanist baby sacrificers.
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What's in a name?
I prayed Dr. Tiller got save before he died.
I find names interesting many times and was thinking about this yesterday. Dr. Tiller was allegedly guilty of killing many of his brothers and sisters of the human race through abortion. Can was guilty of killing his bother Abel (Gen. 4:8). I was reminded of Cain's occupation. ....Cain was a TILLER.... ( Gen. 4:2). I hope I see Dr. Tiller and Cain the tiller in heaven, but my heart breaks with doubt. Blessings |
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There are some answers best left unsaid.
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I know, its a terrible thing to think this man got what he deserved but.... It wouldn't be that way if there was justice in our justice system. A police officer endangers his life everyday apprehending criminals,only to have the judges turn them loose. |
[QUOTE=JOHN G;21468]I prayed Dr. Tiller got save before he died./QUOTE]
He was a Reformed Lutheran,so there could have been hope for him.;) |
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I agree with you, is the abortion law covered under the authority of Romans 13? God forbid. Peter stated: Ac 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Tiller's murder was most decidedly an act of terror, as was Tiller's practice of late-term abortion. Grace and peace brother Tony |
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Is it justifiable to premeditatedly plan the murder of a human and then carry it out, as Tiller's murderer did, and the people who programmed him? Grace and peace Tony |
Tony, wife just brought me a hamburger... let me get back to you on that...
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You got that right, brother. |
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Heaven is going to be an interesting place. Many are going to be surprised to share eternity with blues/rock guitarist Stevie Ray Vaugn and Hitler's top general, Wilhelm Keitel. Grace and peace brother Tony |
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Grace and peace Tony |
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why is one justifiable homicide and the other an act of terror? Why would any of us fire and I assume kill the mass murderer who is killing child A, but not the one who is killing child B? Tony please understand; I am asking this of anyone on the forum, not directing it only at you. Quote:
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BroP,
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. even Christians are not to take the life another unless their life is in danger. he may be murdering children by the thousands. The word of God says, Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. this is not to say it was not of the Lord. A car wreck that resulted in his paralyzation would have been more along the lines of God's wrath this way the man would have had time to get saved. for God says, 2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. God doesn't need men to kill men like Tiller. God needs men to lead men like Tiller to the truth. And at his Methodist soft Gospel of love and acceptance he wasn't getting it there that was obvious. Now his murderer also wasn't getting the truth from his OT loving self righteous religious zealots who thinks that paying income taxes and all other forms of government are fundamentally wrong. Are at the other extreme from that of Tillers church. Balanced teaching of the word of God is what both these men needed. the twisted word in both groups left these men without their consciences being seared as with a hot iron. that is why forums and men like us exist to get people the truth in these days of Apostasy, as church promote and teach everything but the truth of Gods word. |
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I see a big contrast between your reply and Tony's, and I would have to agree with Tony on this one. I think there is such a thing as justifiable homicide, both in man's law and God's law. Chette, you are saying Christians are not to take the life of another unless it is self defense... so you don't think a police officer or soldier or even a civilian who kills because he is defending the lives of the innocent can be Christians? |
I think a man who works as a police or military can be Christians. if they have to kill to protect others it is right. that includes war, robbery's rape. but remember Abortion is legal whether we like it or not.
If a father of one of the Aborted babies came forward and said he did not want his baby aborted and they did it. he can charge the mother and the doctor in court with man slaughter at best. if the killer lived by Roms 12:18 it was up to him to remain at peace with Tiller for Tiller had did nothing to him. |
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But again to my original question, do you think a CIVILIAN who kills because he is defending the lives of the innocent can be a Christian? Quote:
If you knew a proven serial killer who has already killed 50,000 people was standing over a 10 year old child in the process of butchering the child with a knife, AND IT WAS LEGAL TO BUTCHER 10 YEAR OLDS, and you had the ability to stop him with a gun, would you do it? |
are God's law the rule of Gentile Governments today?
are they still similar to that of the dispensation which is still in progress somewhat of the time of Gentile governments from the flood until now? The man was not in the process of killing anyone when he was shot. he was handing out church bulletins in the entrance way of his church. Had tiller been in the process of Killing that man's child in his clinic. that would seem a more justifiable act of revenge killing or stopping him from killing another being. If you feel you are under God's OT law then you can go out and kill all sorts of people in the name of God. but you will be captured, tried and convicted of murder and most likely be killed yourself for doing so. How does that glorify Jesus? We are not ISRAEL nor are we under the OT laws even of the murderer and accidental killer. We are a new creation under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. At best physically we are Gentiles under the Governmental rule of Gentiles established after the flood and is still in force today for Gentiles. A drug addict went to a Christian rehab center where he was saved and set free from drugs. after the 2 month program his daughter never came and picked him up. so he stayed on at the center. he was sent to pick up a man who was coming from his home town. the man turned out to have robbed him and had sexual relations with his wife. His first thoughts were very wicked. but they were biblical under OT law he could put the man to death for having relations with his wife, not to mention if the thief cannot repay he too could be put to death. however Jesus told him to Kill him with Kindness. Truly this man was a new creation in Christ Jesus and that testing proved it. it is not to healthy to seek ways to justify ones self to do wickedness under the guise of following God's laws. |
Chette, you're avoiding the questions...
not that I blame you because they were carefully crafted in order to make us think. Just answer the simple questions, anyone—what would YOU do in that situation? Here's another one... When the law of man blesses the murder of children, is it worthy of any more respect than laws blessing the enslavement of Africans or the gassing of Jews, and is it not at least possible that violent resistance against such enactments is justified in principle, simply for the fact that it protects the lives of children? As I say, I'm not preaching here, just throwing out a few questions to think about. By the way friends, don't be fooled by the "religious activities" of the monster named Tiller. It has been pretty commonly reported over the years and documented in the PL community that Tiller had long turned his murder routine into a grisly "religious ceremony," with his on-site "butcher chaplains" like Gardner and Warren, taking photos of the mother and the dead babies together, offering to have the dead babies baptized before they were burned by the box full in his on-site Nazi furnace on Kellogg Avenue. All the church services in the world couldn't cover up the smell of the burning flesh when they fired up that furnace year after year, and the smoke rose, and the blackened ashes from thousands of little children belched out of the roof, drifted out into the street and settled on the pro-life protestors. Oh yes, some of us pro-lifers have followed the details of his activities for many years. |
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The difference is the law does not recognize an unborn child as a human being, therefore to them it is not murder. It's an abomination to us, yes, but to them it's not a problem. To you and to me, we see it's premeditated murder, the law does not. The law sees a serial killer with a knife drawn back on a child as premeditated murder, thus we are justified in killing or wounding in self-defense of the child and probably ourselves, as we will be the next victim. If the abortion laws are changed then yes, it becomes murder but we can still do nothing without duly deputized authority of the state to arrest the abortion doctor, not kill him or her. If abortion is illegal then, we have the authority to make a "citizen's arrest", not shoot someone down in cold blood. We don't have the authority to force a drunk driver off the road and cause an accident maybe and place him under arrest if we don't cause an accident. We don;t have the authority to prevent murder(abortion) by commiting murder if the state does not recognize the abortion as murder, we do have the right to change the law, just as Paul had the right to claim Roman citizenship in Acts 16, and to appeal his case before Caesar rather than the Jewish religious authorities. If we have the right to shoot and kill abortion doctors, then i guess we have the right to kill prostitutes who have AIDS. Hey Baby, show you a good time? You HIV positive? Yes. Boom. How about drunk drivers? We all know the worst repeat offenders on the planet are child molesters and drunk drivers. Are we justified in waiting outside bars for drunks to get in their cars, Hey Otis? Yeah? You drunk? Yeah. Boom. Not one single verse in the Scriptures say we are vigilantes. As a police officer King Solomon here has the authority to shoot a serial killer who has a knife drawn back on a child, just as I do if no police officer is present, but under the law as it stands now he does not have the authority to go into an abortion clinic and shoot a doctor performing an abortion, then neither do I. Brother Parrish, you and i disagree on a lot of things, I'm not being contentious with you for the sake of being contentious, but consider what I am saying. We have civil law and some of it is contemptuous yes, but we have to obey God and not commit murder, we are not Christians if we do commit murder, because we know no murderer has the Spirit of God. 1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Grace and peace to you brother Tony |
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For example... Huron man faces murder, fetal homicide charges HURON, S.D. (AP) "Beadle County authorities have accused a 42-year-old Huron man of killing his pregnant girlfriend. Court papers show Shannon Flowers faces two counts of first-degree murder and an alternate count of felony fetal homicide in the Thursday death of 20-year-old Brittney Chua and her unborn daughter." http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=339364 Man faces murder charges for killing fetus "For the first time in New Mexico, and perhaps the nation, a person is being prosecuted for causing the death of an unborn child. The defendant killed a pregnant 29-year-old woman and has been charged with killing her unborn child, the Albuquerque Journal reports..." http://newmexicoindependent.com/1353...-killing-fetus Quote:
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"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Quote:
Look, I think everyone has made some good points, I appreciate all this talk of "who has rights" and "who has authority." But let's be clear, I KNOW WHAT MAN'S LAW STATES. I'm not discussing man's law, I'm wondering if the blood of 40 million murdered children in America alone since Roe vs. Wade has given us Bible people a reason to remember what is RIGHT and WRONG according to the Bible. That's all. I have no idea what motivated Tiller's killer, it may come as a surprise to all of us. It's an interesting discussion. Meanwhile, today we have a president who voted to withhold life sustaining care to children who are BORN ALIVE in abortion clinics. As for me, I am meditating on this... 34 "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matt. 25:40 |
BroP,
I know your craftiness so I am answering with scripture as to what type of character you are to have as a christian and under what rule are you. Hypothetical question are not worth answering because they are crafted by the mind of man to cause strife. of course a killer can be christian, they are still sinners and can in fact do very heinous crimes. It doesn't make it right though A true Christian is forgiven al sin. Howevwer we are not to use our grace as a opportunity to sin. Rom 6:1, 15 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. |
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Grace and peace Tony |
BroP,
then put your life on the line for Babies how ever don't take the life of the abortion giver who is allowed to under law. get between the people and the doorway of their clinic. but beware of the free access to abortion clinic law. you will be arrested for obstruction and other crimes under the newer laws and you will be placed in Jail where you can witness to many many lost men. while you await trial and during your incarceration. Now how is killing doctors glorifying Jesus Christ? so intervene get to those who are wanting to use these clinics. get involved quit asking hypothetical questions and get off your chair from in front of that TV set and get to your nearest abortion clinic and put your life on the line. Put your money where your mouth is. |
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Look, you're making judgment calls yourself, not just me. Let's see, what were your exact words... "goose-stepping Catholic socio-psychopaths." Tony, I haven't suggested any vigilantism anywhere here. Personally, I have found the BEST way to counter abortion is with the Gospel, I'm just asking questions about how we arrive at our conclusions about the recent events, and you're getting all uptight. :) |
I think the best thing we can do as Christians is be informed politically and try to vote in pro-life politicians.
Here is a good pro-life site (Catholic??), that shows how Representatives from each state voted on a variety of bills that is explained. http://www.capwiz.com/nrlc/scorecard...=110&x=13&y=13 The higher the score on the right, the more pro-life (by this site's standards). I live in Connecticut, one Republican voted to support just one bill for a total percentage of 14%, all the rest scored 0%. Horrible. Take a look at the maps (click on the red numbers for each bill) and you see the same pattern over and over. The Southern, and Western states are generally pro-life, New Enland, the Midwest, and the West Coast are pro-death. I think this is significant, the Southern and Western states tend to be more religiously conservative, the other side less so. This is a religious issue whether anyone cares to see it or not. If Christians could educate their fellow citizens, then perhaps we could vote out the liberal pro-death politicians and elect those pro-life. This is the only solution I see (plus lots of confession and prayer to God). |
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