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greenbear 07-30-2009 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 24882)
Sis Jen,

Forgive me if I don't quite understand the point of your post. Were you correcting me? Supporting me? Or??? Not sure that I understand. Sorry about that. Can you help clarify the reason for your post, sis?

Thanks!
Jassy

I was using your insights to make a point, sis, absolutely in agreement with you. About scribes and pharisees. Jesus pronounced Woe upon them because they could not be saved. They didn't see their need.

Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Never mind.

Amanda S. 07-30-2009 08:54 PM

Sis. Renee,

Quote:

As you can see, here we are speaking of The Lord's Supper. When we eat unworthily The Lord judges us as only He knows our hearts. Ye also judge yourself for you know your own heart.
Amen sister! Only the Lord can judge our hearts...Before the Lord's Supper one is to examine his heart for any unconfessed sins. If you take the Lord's Supper unworthily and push aside that sin you will be calling God's judgment upon you and you make the church weak, sickly and sleep among you. The context here is the church. If there are people that are bringing God's judgment down on themselves by keeping their sins unconfessed then it WILL have an effect on the whole church.

I guess I didn't make myself clear...If we were to examine our hearts and confess our sins and repent, it would never get to the point of the gross sin mentioned I Cor. 5.
There would not be widely reported fornication or covetousness needing dealt with.
Also, another application to this Scripture is if we would all focus on our own hearts and not glaring around the church at all the people we think have problems then would there be no opportunity for "church discipline" so to speak.

Thank you sister! Great point!

Quote:

By the Book! God has given some more wisdom, discernment and understanding then others. I'm simple, these three previous things I covet. I do not desire knowledge as some do for knowledge tends to puff up people and is only for the brain.
Amen sister...I am very thankful for the leaders in our church. Had we felt they were not full of discernment, understanding and wisdom we would have certainly gone elsewhere. :)

Perhaps I am wrong, but I do seek knowledge of the Bible. I am sorry to say I've not always felt that way...But recently I've been convicted of these passages:

2 Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.


I am sure it's been obvious that I have been mega posting :D LoL I have probably spent a little too much time on here, but it is our summer break and I have really been trying to enjoy this summer as we don't usually take a summer break. :) I do not have tv or do anything else that is my "me" time so I enjoy chatting here.

Quote:

I am blessed that I have an Elder/Husband to ask questions of at home and do not have to bring unlearned and foolish questions that gender strife to this
forum. The wife of an Elder should render him due honor so the Church by her example can believe that the Words he brings forth are truth.
AMEN! You are truly blessed! I am have a similar testimony. My husband and I have not enjoyed more lively and exciting Bible study in a long time! For that he is grateful for this forum...He has helped me understand so many things that have been discussed...I would be totally in the dark were it not for him. My husband is in full support of my activities here and we talk about these things daily. Were it not for my husband and his teachings at church and at home I am certain to not be as interested in these things at all. PTL!

Thank you for your comments!

Be blessed :)

Jassy 07-30-2009 09:28 PM

Sis Amanda,

I was just going to post something about taking Scripture out-of-context... then sis Renee blessedly did so before I. We do need to be careful - we have to look at the Scriptures that come before and after any that we quote, in order to be certain that those Scriptures actually apply - and we're not wrongly applying them out-of-context.

If someone quotes a Scripture, or a passage of Scriptures, oftentimes, I will go back and read not only the entire chapter, but the entire BOOK - to get the true context. We need to understand historically WHO was being addressed, WHO was doing the writing, and WHAT the REASON was for the writing.

The members of the church at Corinth came out of abject paganry. They had been immersed in it as a LIFESTYLE. It had been all they knew. That lifestyle included worship of false gods and goddesses, including sexual rituals that involved the various gods/goddesses. If you go and visit that area today, you can do historical studies about what the Church at Corinth had been like and what kind of lifestyle those believers came from. It would be enough to make us cringe!!

So, after following that lifestyle, and BELIEVING in what Paul preached, they were SAVED. Were they still falling back into that lifestyle? Unfortunately, yes. According to Paul's letter to the Church at Corinth, many were still involved in that lifestyle. Were they going to LOSE their salvation over it? NO! They were already SAVED. Remember Christ came to save SINNERS - not the PURE.

He was admonishing them since they were representative of the Church - the Body of Christ - and as another of Paul's letters stated, these things should not ONCE be named among them, as Believers. (That was, of course to the Church at Ephesius (Eph. 5).

Was Paul JUDGING them? It was more of a WARNING. They weren't going to be seeing any awards in heaven if they were falling back into that lifestyle!

There are some - Calvinists, I assume - that would declare that the sinner LOST their salvation. But Paul NEVER said that. Look how he ADDRESSED his letter!! I go back to his very first opening address to the Church at Corinth.

1 Corinthians 1:1 - Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.


Whew! And going on................... very interesting!!!

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I am of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


In the same judgment. SEE it? Not that we each judge what we THINK we ought to judge - but according to the Word of God - in AGREEMENT with all Believers.

As was also pointed out by sis Renee, we have to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment.

Jassy

Amanda S. 07-30-2009 09:42 PM

Sis. Jassy,

Totally in agreement! Paul gives the church guidelines as I stated on what to judge...

I am not suggesting any one lost their salvation, or were warned, judged, discerned against (?) because they smoked or shaved their head or wore too much make up...LoL Paul gave us the examples.

If we judged unrighteously shame on us!

If we judged according to our whims, wicked!

Amen and Amen...

Jassy 07-30-2009 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulB (Post 24887)
1 Cor.11:31 "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."

I don't see myself as a thing! I am a person!:eyebrows:

No, but seriously!

Judging people is very necessary for their own good - if it is done from a pure heart with the intent of restoring someone.

Mt.7:1-5 "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye

Our Lord id obvioulsly telling people to "Judge correctly" rather than hypocritically - He is not warning to cease from judging, but doing so with a pure heart.

God bless

PaulB

Yep, the quoted scriptures from Matthew were said to the "multitude" and showed what the Scribes and Pharisees were doing, because they were so focused on outward appearances, that they weren't look at their own inward heart in judging. Their MOTIVATION for doing so was wrong (to point out the sins of others, so that they might appear to be "better")... and so was their ATTITUDE (self-righteousness).

Yes, judging ourselves - if we are honest within ourselves, we know our sins better than anyone. Judging others has a tendency to lead to hypocrisy because, face it, we are ALL sinners and we were in that same condition, that sinful state, where we could be led to sin in that same way. So, coming down hard on someone for their sins is not always advisable... but judging a RIGHTEOUS judgment IS always advisable.

Jassy

Jassy 07-30-2009 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 24895)
I was using your insights to make a point, sis, absolutely in agreement with you. About scribes and pharisees. Jesus pronounced Woe upon them because they could not be saved. They didn't see their need.

Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Never mind.

Thanks sis Jen,

When I reread it, I understood. Sorry for my sometimes SLOW mind! Things occasionally take time to sink in! LOL :pound:

Jassy

greenbear 07-30-2009 10:07 PM

No problem, Sister Jassy. See, if you were inside my mind (scary thought, I know) you could follow my line of thinking with no trouble at all. :pound:

P.S. You were blazing hot, sister.

Renee 07-30-2009 10:10 PM

Acceptable/Unacceptable
 
Hi sister Jassy,

Sorry I beat you to the punch. It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures. I read a lot of the post that are posted. I find that a lot of post in some threads I prefer to be quiet on, infact I ignore whole threads after reading the first few post. I do have this thing though, when I see that George or Brandon has posted I do go check it out.

There is much wisdom and discernment and understanding in both yours and Greenbear's post and I preceive that behind the post is a meek and quiet spirit.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

May The Lord bless you,

Renee

Looks like this thread has morphed again!

greenbear 07-30-2009 10:20 PM

Renee and Jassy,

I pray the Lord to give me a meek and quiet spirit. I have a zeal for the truth but in this I am lacking. I still respond carnally at times. I thank God for your and JaeByrd's "ensamples".

Jen

greenbear 07-30-2009 10:28 PM

Sis Jassy,

And one more thing. You are NOT allowed to start any more threads! :p

PaulB 07-31-2009 02:18 AM

One question!
 
How is it possible (whether indirectly or directly) for one to label another a “Pharisee”, a “Sophist” or someone who has a “problem with the Bible” without judging someone?

Verses like Mt.7:1 are addressing exactly what is happening on this forum (i.e. coming down on those who feel like they have the moral high ground, when it is fact they who are in the wrong!)

Not only that, but some people on this forum are so quick to pounce on the case of a select few newcomers and are guilty of doing the very things that they are criticising others for.
To come down on another by applying the verse “judge not” is an act of judging in itself!

God bless

PaulB

Amanda S. 07-31-2009 07:24 AM

Bro. Paul,

As suggested by Jennifer I have gone back and looked at the thread I started and the threads I have posted in...And I'm sure from her point of view that I am full of hate and malice. It matters not that I mostly involved myself in topics that were current. It also matters not that she was involved in most every conversation I was, but alas she does have the duty to correct my Gospel of Hate. Nor does it matter that I strived to stay in the context. Nor does it matter that I FULLY admitted that the Christian is NOT commanded to hate anyone, that any judgment to be made in church is to be righteous in their judgments not with malice but mourning.

One of the reasons I was excited in joining was to reason through this idea of God "Hates the sin, not the sinner" as it was a point of contention between several people on my FB that very week.

After looking over my posts I can clearly see a continual disagreement running through most of the threads. It is the idea of authority. The very idea that a man, men, elders have any right to address sin and deal with it for the good of the church really rubs people wrong. But the concept is not as foreign as one would like to suggest...Government, police officers etc make laws, give tickets (judgment) because they hate the law breaker....!? No, but for the good of the community....Hopefully because they care for the well-being of yourself.

Perhaps because I've been blessed to be associated with wonderful churches and leadership I have little understanding of their point of view. I would not want to be a church member in a church where I didn't think the pastor wasn't looking out for my well-being and the well-being of the other Christians. If I was involved in a sin that was going to bring down the wrath of God on me or the body of believers I should hope someone would say something to me! But again, I've no experience in this being handled wrongly....The occasions I have known, the sin was privately addressed and there was no putting away or occasion for "stone throwing" as some would like to say. But rather tears and heartache and joy when the sin was repented of and addressed...(in this particular case it was fornication at the age of 16 with a resulting pregnancy).

I said all that to say...I can see where they are coming from. And we will probably continue to have this disagreement and differing of views as I view a lot of topics and Christian living and service through a leadership's (my husband) and church member's eyes. I would dare say that a missionary, evangelist, street preacher, nursing home minister etc would view a lot of topics with the situations they are acquainted with on a daily basis.

Be blessed Bro. Paul!

PaulB 07-31-2009 08:41 AM

The sins and the sinner
 
Hi Amanda! I agree with what you are saying and as you know I relate to your position and the way in which you are addressing the issues. I can't see what you have said wrong in any way on this forum, and certainly not with the any malice intended.

The trouble is, when we innocently enter into forums on the world wide web we can be answering honest questions that people are hungry to know the answers to, but at the same time we can be stepping on toes.

Our answers come from our convictions. and our convictions come because we care about people and truth. I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda

PaulB

custer 08-01-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by custer (Post 24884)

...will someone PLEASE expound I Corinthians 7:27-28? I just want to know why the man in that passage is committing adultery when he remarries if the Bible says he has not sinned!

Somebody, anybody???

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

CKG 08-01-2009 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulB (Post 24920)
I am discovering very quickly that there are some who are more interested in defending the theological camp that they belong to rather than having the heart to seek to understand the intentions or theology of one or two certain newcomers!

God bless you Amanda

PaulB

Paul

You're not helping matters any with statements like ""probably because I approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture rather than using C.I. Scofield’s notes". You're insinuating that those who are dispensational don't approach things from the plain meaning of Scripture and that all dispensationalists can't study the Bible without the aid of Scofield's notes, not to mention when you look at "Ask Mr. Religion"'s statement of faith which he posted to this forum there is a book advertised that attacks dispensationalism.

Jassy 08-01-2009 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renee (Post 24903)
Hi sister Jassy,

Sorry I beat you to the punch. It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures. I read a lot of the post that are posted. I find that a lot of post in some threads I prefer to be quiet on, infact I ignore whole threads after reading the first few post. I do have this thing though, when I see that George or Brandon has posted I do go check it out.

There is much wisdom and discernment and understanding in both yours and Greenbear's post and I preceive that behind the post is a meek and quiet spirit.

1 Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

May The Lord bless you,

Renee

Looks like this thread has morphed again!

Sis Renee,

Thank you for your lovely comments. Sometimes, in this world, being a meek and quiet spirit is very difficult - and unappreciated. Besides that, it's like placing out a doormat with the words of invitation: "Walk all over me!" on it! ;)

I cannot say I have in any way mastered the practice of being a meek and quiet spirit. You might want to ask those who are around me on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I can get a little "hot-headed" at times. :(

I'm HAPPY that you "beat me to the punch" sis. Besides that, it's not a contest. LOL

Threads that morph can sometimes be interesting. It can sometimes reveal things that would otherwise remain hidden.

I will generally (eventually) read almost all of the posts - but I often restrain my comments, prayerfully. I try to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. I will sometimes not listen to Him though... :( and I'll post something that should not have been said - or something that I said with the wrong attitude.

I think being deaf has been good for me, in some ways, because I've had to be patient and often be left-out of conversations. I was very shy, growing up, due to being physically different. Sometimes I was teased, sometimes ostracized. Sometimes cruelly ridiculed. I had to learn not to take those arrows and slingshots personally. Even as an adult, I stand only 3'9" tall and, due to that, am very visibly different. And then, becoming deaf, it was very, very difficult for me to feel "left out." Sometimes I took it wrongly, as being rejected or as my opinion "not counting."

In a group, when asking what was being said, sometimes my question was met with barely-contained impatience, along with the comment: "I'll tell you later." Or "It's not important." Or "It doesn't concern you." So, I may sometimes be clueless about what is going on around me. Sometimes I feel that is a blessing. I'm able to avoid contentious situations since I can't put my "two cents worth" in!

In person, I may sometimes appear to be very meek and quiet - when it is not necessarily my "personality" but my lack of hearing that foists that upon me. I had to stop "blowing up" in frustration and taking things personally that were not meant to be personal - such as the feeling of being "left out."

It's amazing to me, the GOOD that the Lord can work out of believers' situations, if we will only "Be STILL and KNOW that I am God:..." (Psalm 46:10, emphasis mine) He makes himself HEARD when we are quiet and listen. By prayer and Bible study, we learn of Him.

Jassy

Jassy 08-01-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 24904)
Renee and Jassy,

I pray the Lord to give me a meek and quiet spirit. I have a zeal for the truth but in this I am lacking. I still respond carnally at times. I thank God for your and JaeByrd's "ensamples".

Jen

Sis Jennifer,

Welcome to the club of meek and quiet spirits, who sometimes are a bit "hot-headed"! :pound: You can read my post to sis Renee for more info on the background of how I got from point A to point B. However, I caution you that I don't recommend going deaf! LOL

Isn't it wonderful that we have such "ensamples"? I am very thankful to the Lord for them.

You have a wonderful spirit Jennifer. I've seen that, in your communications with me and others, when you feel you've been wrong, you will humbly apologize - even if I haven't seen where you've been wrong. That has been a great "ensample" for me, sis.

Jassy

greenbear 08-01-2009 01:44 PM

Amanda,

I am free to state my point of view on this forum. Whether or not I am addressing something you have written it's not just intended for you to read. Read it or not and respond or not, as you see fit.

Amanda's
Quote:

And I'm sure from her point of view that I am full of hate and malice.
That's not my point of view. What I think is that Christians can become blinded to the reason for our existence. We can end up going the opposite direction that we are supposed to go just like Israel did. The Jewish leaders had apostasized and were actually the enemies of their Messiah when He came.

Amanda's
Quote:

Nor does it matter that I FULLY admitted that the Christian is NOT commanded to hate anyone, that any judgment to be made in church is to be righteous in their judgments not with malice but mourning.
We are not just "not commanded to hate anyone", we are "commanded" to LOVE.

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

We are not only commanded to LOVE our brothers, we are commanded to love our enemies SO THAT we may be LIKE our Father in Heaven.

Matthew 5:44-45 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

LOVE is the fulfillment of the Law.

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Quote:

For anyone else wondering why Bro. George declared this Scripturally unsound he has written about his teaching on this matter. I hesitated to link it as I respectfully disagree but surmised I would likely not get an answer so I went searching

Sis. Pam I knew you too were wondering what his position was on this so here is the link.

http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/NIC...20-%201web.ht
*********************************************
After looking over my posts I can clearly see a continual disagreement running through most of the threads. It is the idea of authority.
Exactly. The scriptures are THE standard, not men's opinions, whether they be of the brethren, elders, teachers, pastors, husbands, denominations, or the world.

PaulB 08-01-2009 01:59 PM

Hi Craig!

You're right perhaps I wasn't being very helpful, but I was getting frustrated with some of the titles that were being hurled in my direction. I was answering valid questions from the Bible and was being tarnished with titles by some who look at certain verses through a different lense.

I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else but it does seem to be the case that unless one holds to a dispensational view of Scripture then you can only expect alot of accusative opposition!

Forums are places where different views are obviously going to meet and if I post a reply and someone doesn't agree with me then that is fine in my book. But when I disagree with a dispensational interpretation of Scripture that doesn't make me into a heretic, Sophist or Pharisee.

So in response to you post - I apologise as I just got carried away in the heat of the moment due to the attention that I seemed to be cornered with!

God bless

Paul

PaulB 08-01-2009 02:06 PM

Loosed from a wife
 
Hi Custer (Pam)

I posted a couple of links that may prove helpful in a previous post on this thread and there was everything that a person could seek to know within them.

My personal belief "loosed from a wife" = a widow/widower which makes such a person free to re-marry and has not sinned as a result!


God bless

PaulB

Amanda S. 08-01-2009 02:29 PM

Quote:

Sis Jassy said:

Welcome to the club of meek and quiet spirits, who sometimes are a bit "hot-headed"!
LoL :pound: That was funny :) I have to say I struggle in this area myself, but then I'm letting out no secret there! :D

You share a wonderful testimony and I thank you for sharing. We don't see eye to eye on everything but I do think that you have exemplified a meek and quiet spirit in the occasions I've talked with you. I don't consider "meek and quiet" as in always saying nothing, keeping your mouth shut, but having a quiet spirit. More of a heart attitude that your mouth will speak from. :)

Be blessed!!!

Jassy 08-01-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 24907)
Sis Jassy,

And one more thing. You are NOT allowed to start any more threads! :p

Sis Jennifer,

:pound: Point taken!! I'm resting a bit from my thread posting. ;)

Jassy

Jassy 08-01-2009 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanda S. (Post 24981)
LoL :pound: That was funny :) I have to say I struggle in this area myself, but then I'm letting out no secret there! :D

You share a wonderful testimony and I thank you for sharing. We don't see eye to eye on everything but I do think that you have exemplified a meek and quiet spirit in the occasions I've talked with you. I don't consider "meek and quiet" as in always saying nothing, keeping your mouth shut, but having a quiet spirit. More of a heart attitude that your mouth will speak from. :)

Be blessed!!!

Sis Amanda,

I'm glad you enjoyed my little interjection of humor there.:D Thank you for your kind words. As you had said in another thread (I daresay I wouldn't want to be called upon to search and find it!!:p) - "the Lord knows my heart." None of us are perfect, yet the Lord does, indeed, know our hearts, for both good and bad.

Genesis 6:5 - And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

1 Kings 8:39 - Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;) (see also 2 Chronicles 6:30)

1 Chronicles 28:9 - And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Psalm 44:21 - Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Psalm 139:23 - Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Jeremiah 12:3 - But thou, O LORD, knowest me: thou hast seen me, and tried mine heart toward thee:...

Matthew 9:4 - And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? (see also Luke 5:22, 24:38)

Luke 16:15 - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Acts 1:24 - And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

Acts 15:8 - And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, given them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Romans 8:27 - And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Hebrews 4:12 - For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 John 3:20 - For if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Revelation 2:23 - And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and the hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


Some of these, of course, apply only to Israel or to unbelievers. But God knows our heart, both good and bad that dwells there.

Jassy

Jassy 08-01-2009 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 24979)
Aloha sister Jennifer,

Both you and Jassy are doing a great job in your Posting! If we were not separated by such a distance, it would be a real pleasure for Renee and I to to fellowship with you and brother John and sister Jassy. {Maybe we could learn sign language - she is such a blessed sister in the Lord.}

Brother George,

That is just a partial quote - that was so sweet to say, brother! I am blessed by the fellowship of believers here. Thank you so much for your encouragement, it is wonderful to read.

I probably won't make it to Hawaii - I can't swim!! :D Jennifer and I don't live near one another, but a bit closer than the island. I hope one day to meet all of the precious brothers and sisters in the Lord, which would be a blessing to be able to do before meeting together with the glorious Lord in heaven!

Jassy

George 08-01-2009 04:01 PM

Re: "Acceptable/Unacceptable Reasons for Divorce"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 24984)
Brother George,

That is just a partial quote - that was so sweet to say, brother! I am blessed by the fellowship of believers here. Thank you so much for your encouragement, it is wonderful to read.

I probably won't make it to Hawaii - I can't swim!! :D Jennifer and I don't live near one another, but a bit closer than the island. I hope one day to meet all of the precious brothers and sisters in the Lord, which would be a blessing to be able to do before meeting together with the glorious Lord in heaven!

Jassy

Aloha sister Jassy,

We no longer live in Hawaii (couldn't afford to stay). I moved to Hawaii in 1968, got married to an Island girl (all of 4" 11" tall - Filipino/Chinese/Spanish) in 1961, and God blessed us with seven wonderful children.

Renee and I have been married for over 48 years now, and I can say this from the bottom of my heart - that in all my life I have never met a woman (no not one) who could come even close to her in her devotion to her children (as a mother), and to me (as my wife). Having said that - she hasn't had many "Chrsitian" women "friends", because most of them have been jealous of her "example" of what a "Christian" woman, wife, and mother should be, and so most have them have avoided her, which has suited us just fine.

Renee and I moved to Oklahoma in December of last year (first time she had ever been to the "mainland" USA, and the first time for me in 50 years).

Hawaii is probably one of the most beautiful places on Earth, and the Island of Kauai, the "Garden Island", where we lived for most of that time, is without a doubt, the prettiest of all the Islands, BUT, with the cost of a modest house and about 10,000 square feet of land costing on average $650,000, ordinary folks cannot afford to live there on a modest income.

Perhaps someday, we may have an opportunity to meet you down here - if not, I know that we will meet "UP THERE". :amen:

Aloha in Hawaiian is a "greeting" (Hello); and it also means "farewell" (Goodbye); but my favorite of all, is that it also means "LOVE". If you will notice I do not say "Aloha" to everyone, it's a term of "endearment" and not everyone is deserving of a loving greeting! :)

Aloha nui loa ("with very much love"), from both of us to you. God bless and keep you always, your fellow brother and sister in Christ,

George & Irene Anderson

greenbear 08-01-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassy (Post 24973)
Sis Jennifer,

Welcome to the club of meek and quiet spirits, who sometimes are a bit "hot-headed"! :pound: You can read my post to sis Renee for more info on the background of how I got from point A to point B. However, I caution you that I don't recommend going deaf! LOL

Isn't it wonderful that we have such "ensamples"? I am very thankful to the Lord for them.

You have a wonderful spirit Jennifer. I've seen that, in your communications with me and others, when you feel you've been wrong, you will humbly apologize - even if I haven't seen where you've been wrong. That has been a great "ensample" for me, sis.

Jassy

Jassy,

I've been thinking about the Apostle John lately. He is so much like David. Many times when I think about David I am overcome with emotion. I can't keep my eyes dry when I read about David and what he wrote. I believe that is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit's intense love for him. The Godhead loves, He is a Person, He has emotions but they are Righteous emotions. I believe He loves David in a special way (as He loves John) because David's hearts desire was to KNOW God to a degree that few if any have aspired to. I am a "follower" of Paul and I want to be a "follower" of David and John, "The Apostle of Love". All of this to say that I know that a meek and quiet spirit is not something that can be "attained" on it's own, it is a fruit of knowing Him.

Psalms 42:1-2 To the chief Musician, Maschil, for the sons of Korah. As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

You are truly blessed, sister.

2 Corinthians 12:9-10 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

In Him,

Jen

greenbear 08-01-2009 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 24979)
Aloha sister Jennifer,

Both you and Jassy are doing a great job in your Posting! If we were not separated by such a distance, it would be a real pleasure for Renee and I to to fellowship with you and brother John and sister Jassy. {Maybe we could learn sign language - she is such a blessed sister in the Lord.}

Please notice another "boo boo" (amongst many) that Amanda made when she said: "If I was involved in a sin that was going to bring down the wrath of God on me or the body of believers I should hope someone would say something to me!"

You might inform her (although it will do little good) that we born again Christians are NOT "appointed" to "God's WRATH", but unto His Salvation!
This is one of those very "BASIC" Scriptural "FACTS" that all Christians with even a modicum of Scriptural knowledge, discernment, and understanding should have. :tsk: I wonder how Amanda "missed" it and "MISSPOKE" (once again)? :confused:

Aloha nui loa, brother George,

You and Renee in Broken Arrow, OK, Jassy in WI, John and I in OH, wouldn't it be nice if we could meet somewhere in the middle (or at any corner) of that triangle someday? The fellowship would be tremendous. What joy! When I told Jassy that I'm not sure how great I would be at sign language, (I'm not overly coordinated:(), we joked that we could sit together in the living room with our laptops and chat with each other!

I love you all in the Spirit of Christ,

Jennifer

Amanda S. 08-01-2009 06:34 PM

Bro. George
 
Apparently you misunderstood, it was neither a lack of knowledge nor a case of having misspoke; it was a case of figurative speech and hyperbole.

You know, like when Jesus said “strain at a gnat and swallow a camel".....?

Surely you admit that Jesus didn’t mean the Pharisees literally swallowed a camel?

Likewise I didn’t mean that any believer literally fell under the wrath of God. Of course we (and those in the local assembly - see I Cor. 11:30) still suffer consequences of sin, and in what I thought was an obvious case of hyperbole, I referred to it as the wrath of God.

In common speech (which I use on this forum) this is not rare. Other examples are “raining cats and dogs,” and “laughed my head off,” and “I’ve told you a thousand times.”

In the above example, I thought it was a safe exaggeration because as far as I know everyone involved in the discussion believes a Christian cannot lose his salvation and fall under the literal wrath of God.

But, because evidently my posts are being gone over with a fine tooth comb (another hyperbole :D) and my word usage is being criticized - for those who are unfamiliar with basic literary devices I will be more careful in the future.

Thank you Bro. George for looking out for me! :)

Jassy 08-01-2009 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 24987)
Aloha sister Jassy,

We no longer live in Hawaii (couldn't afford to stay). I moved to Hawaii in 1968, got married to an Island girl (all of 4" 11" tall - Filipino/Chinese/Spanish) in 1961, and God blessed us with seven wonderful children.

Renee and I have been married for over 48 years now, and I can say this from the bottom of my heart - that in all my life I have never met a woman (no not one) who could come even close to her in her devotion to her children (as a mother), and to me (as my wife). Having said that - she hasn't had many "Chrsitian" women "friends", because most of them have been jealous of her "example" of what a "Christian" woman, wife, and mother should be, and so most have them have avoided her, which has suited us just fine.

Renee and I moved to Oklahoma in December of last year (first time she had ever been to the "mainland" USA, and the first time for me in 50 years).

Hawaii is probably one of the most beautiful places on Earth, and the Island of Kauai, the "Garden Island", where we lived for most of that time, is without a doubt, the prettiest of all the Islands, BUT, with the cost of a modest house and about 10,000 square feet of land costing on average $650,000, ordinary folks cannot afford to live there on a modest income.

Perhaps someday, we may have an opportunity to meet you down here - if not, I know that we will meet "UP THERE". :amen:

Aloha in Hawaiian is a "greeting" (Hello); and it also means "farewell" (Goodbye); but my favorite of all, is that it also means "LOVE". If you will notice I do not say "Aloha" to everyone, it's a term of "endearment" and not everyone is deserving of a loving greeting! :)

Aloha nui loa ("with very much love"), from both of us to you. God bless and keep you always, your fellow brother and sister in Christ,

George & Irene Anderson

Aloha Brother George & Sister Renee,

Thank you for your personal history, I've always been very interested in history - whether biblical, world, U.S., local or personal! I think that I acquired that interest in history from my father, who was always fascinated with history, often reading history books or watching historical documentaries on TV.

My brother and his wife have vacationed in Maui. They enjoyed it very much. I think they did some island jumping... to see other parts of Hawaii. He did tell me that prices there are VERY high in Hawaii and that it would be extremely expensive to live there.

A long time ago, I'd been to either Stilwell or Stillwater, OK. I can't remember which now. I visited a college friend there. They look to be about 1 hour and a half to an hour and 40 minutes from Broken Arrow. What I remember most about that city I was in were the many, many oil wells. I've been to around 28 of our 50 states thus far.

I would dearly love to meet you and your wife Renee. I am not the least bit jealous of her example of what a Christian woman should be. I would love to soak up the benefit of her experiences and her example. That opportunity would make me very happy. That's sad, and to their own detriment, that other Christian women would avoid her. :( Too many throw away the jewels in life - those blessed examples that we are given to grow in grace and knowledge, by learning from an elder with more wisdom. FOOLISH choice!

Jassy

Amanda S. 08-03-2009 11:57 AM

Quote:

Sis. Renee said: This one I cannot keep my mouth shut on. You should have quoted all of the verses below not just from verse 30.......It really bugs me when someone twist and wrest the scriptures........As you can see, here we are speaking of The Lord's Supper. When we eat unworthily The Lord judges us as only He knows our hearts. Ye also judge yourself for you know your own heart.............
Because I said:

Quote:

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


Paul here is telling those Christians in the church to judge the believers in their assembly if they are involved in the sins that are listed here, sins that are commonly reported...Paul has already dealt with this before and rather than heeding his words here they are puffed up and proud that the man is still in their midst, perhaps hoping to "love" him out of his sin. Obviously that is not what Paul told them to do. He told them to put him away mourning not self-righteously, holier than thou...but with a spirit of compassion that he would repent.

I honestly think that if you were to consider the heart attitude, the sin being dealt with and the effect of that sin on the body of believers, the effect of that sin on the man himself that you would see why a judgment needs to be made...If you want to use the word discern then I've no problem with that but the Bible does use judge...But discern doesn't bring to mind any action behind it...making a judgment puts action on the discernment if you will.

Now ideally we should catch these sins in ourselves...Consider this:

I Cor 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

To which I clearly explained myself:

Quote:

Amen sister! Only the Lord can judge our hearts...Before the Lord's Supper one is to examine his heart for any unconfessed sins. If you take the Lord's Supper unworthily and push aside that sin you will be calling God's judgment upon you and you make the church weak, sickly and sleep among you. The context here is the church. If there are people that are bringing God's judgment down on themselves by keeping their sins unconfessed then it WILL have an effect on the whole church.

I guess I didn't make myself clear...If we were to examine our hearts and confess our sins and repent, it would never get to the point of the gross sin mentioned I Cor. 5.
There would not be widely reported fornication or covetousness needing dealt with.
Also, another application to this Scripture is if we would all focus on our own hearts and not glaring around the church at all the people we think have problems then would there be no opportunity for "church discipline" so to speak.

Thank you sister! Great point!


I was just wondering Sis. Renee. Are you still accusing me of twisting and wresting the Bible in this instance????


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