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Ask Mr. Religion 06-08-2009 12:42 AM

Ask Mr. Religion -Intro
 
A little about me...

I am a Vietnam veteran, formerly a Catholic Jesuit (Tertian), and am an ordained minister (Southern Baptist 1984), who later joined the PCA. I pastored a new Reformed church in Clearwater, FL for a few years and then spent many years as a wireless communications technology expert at companies such as Alcatel, Motorola, Intel Corp., and General Dynamics. To this day I, along with my son, still maintain a wireless communications intellectual property consulting business that specializes in forensic patent analysis (related to puchases/licensing of intellectual or litigation).

I am a MDiv with an additional Licentiate in Sacred Theology certificate (2 yrs beyond a MDiv) graduate of the Jesuit School of Theology. After seven years of study, contemplation, and teaching, I left the Jesuits once I realized that as a "heretical" Jansenist, I could no longer keep my Jesuit vow to defend Catholicism.

I am also a MS (Adult Education) graduate of Nova Southeastern University.

I possess the BSEE and Ph.D. in electrical engineering from Columbia Pacific University (now defunct - a very long story) and have been a MENSA member since I was eight years old. I have taught electrical engineering and computer science courses at So. Illinois University, DePaul University, and Augusta College.

In addition to being the founder and moderator of http://www.reformedtheologyinstitute.com/ I moderate the Yahoo! Groups TheologosAMR advanced theology discussion mailing list.

In theology, I’m a Calvinist, creationist, inerrantist, cessationist, classical Christian theist, and moderately preterist. On the sacraments, I take them to be symbolic. I regard other issues in sacramentology as secondary to this primary position. In philosophy, I’m an Augustinian exemplarist. I’m a Cartesian dualist. I’m an alethic realist, but scientific antirealist. I believe in innate ideas, sense knowledge (I'm an indirect realist), and the primacy of divine revelation in Scripture. In ethics, I subscribe to traditional Christian morality, rooted God’s revealed law as the source and standard of personal and social ethics. I also subscribe to a infralapsarian theodicy.

In July 2008 I founded The Reformed Theology Institute (RTI) for the express purpose of providing a place where like-minded persons can come together and dialog in a civilized manner about the many aspects of the Reformed faith. Nearly one year later, I transitioned the full time ownership of RTI to another member, an outstanding defender of the Reformed faith.

I have been married for 27 years to a woman who makes me want to be a better man every day. Valerie taught mathematics at a local community college here in Chandler, Arizona.

Lastly, I am the 1994 founder of the Ask Mr. Religion confidential theology Q&A service. The nine volunteer member AMR service has provided custom theology research for academic theologians, religious web sites, and private individuals (mostly seminarians) since 1994. The fruits of the AMR volunteer theologians have anonymously appeared in hundreds of academic papers, conferences, internet forums. etc.

Go easy on me. I am earnestly studying the whole KJV issue and genuinely seeking to be enlightened and am open to correction.

AMR

geologist 06-08-2009 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion (Post 21811)
Go easy on me. I am earnestly studying the whole KJV issue and genuinely seeking to be enlightened and am open to correction.
AMR

Well, you have certainly stumbled into the right den of lions.:whip:

tonybones2112 06-08-2009 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion (Post 21811)
A little about me...

I am a Vietnam veteran, formerly a Catholic Jesuit (Tertian), and am an ordained minister (Southern Baptist 1984), who later joined the PCA. I pastored a new Reformed church in Clearwater, FL for a few years and then spent many years as a wireless communications technology expert at companies such as Alcatel, Motorola, Intel Corp., and General Dynamics. To this day I, along with my son, still maintain a wireless communications intellectual property consulting business that specializes in forensic patent analysis (related to puchases/licensing of intellectual or litigation).

I am a MDiv with an additional Licentiate in Sacred Theology certificate (2 yrs beyond a MDiv) graduate of the Jesuit School of Theology. After seven years of study, contemplation, and teaching, I left the Jesuits once I realized that as a "heretical" Jansenist, I could no longer keep my Jesuit vow to defend Catholicism.

I am also a MS (Adult Education) graduate of Nova Southeastern University.

I possess the BSEE and Ph.D. in electrical engineering from Columbia Pacific University (now defunct - a very long story) and have been a MENSA member since I was eight years old. I have taught electrical engineering and computer science courses at So. Illinois University, DePaul University, and Augusta College.

In addition to being the founder and moderator of http://www.reformedtheologyinstitute.com/ I moderate the Yahoo! Groups TheologosAMR advanced theology discussion mailing list.

In theology, I’m a Calvinist, creationist, inerrantist, cessationist, classical Christian theist, and moderately preterist. On the sacraments, I take them to be symbolic. I regard other issues in sacramentology as secondary to this primary position. In philosophy, I’m an Augustinian exemplarist. I’m a Cartesian dualist. I’m an alethic realist, but scientific antirealist. I believe in innate ideas, sense knowledge (I'm an indirect realist), and the primacy of divine revelation in Scripture. In ethics, I subscribe to traditional Christian morality, rooted God’s revealed law as the source and standard of personal and social ethics. I also subscribe to a infralapsarian theodicy.

In July 2008 I founded The Reformed Theology Institute (RTI) for the express purpose of providing a place where like-minded persons can come together and dialog in a civilized manner about the many aspects of the Reformed faith. Nearly one year later, I transitioned the full time ownership of RTI to another member, an outstanding defender of the Reformed faith.

I have been married for 27 years to a woman who makes me want to be a better man every day. Valerie taught mathematics at a local community college here in Chandler, Arizona.

Lastly, I am the 1994 founder of the Ask Mr. Religion confidential theology Q&A service. The nine volunteer member AMR service has provided custom theology research for academic theologians, religious web sites, and private individuals (mostly seminarians) since 1994. The fruits of the AMR volunteer theologians have anonymously appeared in hundreds of academic papers, conferences, internet forums. etc.

Go easy on me. I am earnestly studying the whole KJV issue and genuinely seeking to be enlightened and am open to correction.

AMR

Mr. R, you and I have exchanged brief comments in another thread, I would like to welcome you to the forum. You're a Vietnam vet, welcome home and thank you for your service. In my 10 years on the internet this is the only, other than brother Will Kenney's WHICH VERSION yahoo group, Christian forum I really feel comfortable in. It's been very edifying for me, I hope it is for you.

The "KJVO" issue is actually a simple one that can be resolved by one verse of Scripture, internal evidence rather than manuscript evidence, and is what the opponents to the KJV as inspired Scripture have painted themselves into a corner with:

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

In order to be called "the word of God" we have to consider this word to have been given by inspiration of God. The Other Side says there is no inspiration beyond the original manuscripts. If that is true we are left only with this:

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the original manuscripts.

If that is the case, as salvation is by grace through faith, then there's been no salvation since the original manuscript containing the gospel(I Corinthians 15)deteriorated. Which is why you will once and a while see the Other Side made fun of a little in the Bible Versions part of this forum. As Art Linkletter once said, Kids Say The Darndest Things.

Welcome again brother

Tony

PB1789 06-08-2009 10:30 AM

Welcome !
 
Hello AMR. Welcome to the website. I clicked on the link to your homepage and I like what I see! Be warned though that the resident Landmarkers, Arminians and the slice-n-dice the scriptures folks (aka; Dispensationalists) will be very upset with you simply because you have admitted that you hold to the Reformed Faith. Post Tenebrux , Lux! Out of Darkness, Light!

I would urge you to look at the first (Home page) of this site and look up the works by Edward Hills (The King James Bible Defended) and also the writings of Dean Burgon. Also read a book by Fuller titled "Which Bible?". The site owner (Diligent) has posted a short list of verses that are different or mangled by the new translations, on the front page called "verse charts". Two that could be included in that chart are John1:1 and Romans 3:25. The NWT and the NIV are really bad translations.

BTW, the Hills book is now available free on the internet thanks to his widow.

Stay on the Path - just as "Christian" was heading for The Celestial City.

Luke 06-08-2009 02:47 PM

The only time I have ever seen you post is to "back up" one of your reformed brethren, and take stabs at the right dividers...

There are no arminians on this board. When they come, they get deleted real quick, because they can't stop blabbing about losing your salvation. I don't think there are any landmarkers either.

Gord 06-08-2009 07:20 PM

Welcome AMR, I look forward to meeting you here via the various discussions. I must also add that I am thrilled that the RTI site exists, so us poor folk can get an insight to seminary that otherwise would be impossible for the average lay person of age. :)

George 06-08-2009 08:21 PM

Re: "Ask Mr. Religion -Intro"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PB1789 (Post 21828)
"Hello AMR. Welcome to the website. I clicked on the link to your homepage and I like what I see! Be warned though that the resident Landmarkers, Arminians and the slice-n-dice the scriptures folks (aka; Dispensationalists) will be very upset with you simply because you have admitted that you hold to the Reformed Faith. Post Tenebrux , Lux! Out of Darkness, Light!"

"I would urge you to look at the first (Home page) of this site and look up the works by Edward Hills (The King James Bible Defended) and also the writings of Dean Burgon. Also read a book by Fuller titled "Which Bible?". The site owner (Diligent) has posted a short list of verses that are different or mangled by the new translations, on the front page called "verse charts". Two that could be included in that chart are John1:1 and Romans 3:25. The NWT and the NIV are really bad translations."

"BTW, the Hills book is now available free on the internet thanks to his widow."

"Stay on the Path - just as "Christian" was heading for The Celestial City."


Aloha all,

I have noticed that "PB1789" has enlarged his list of “LABELS” in dispensing with all of us here on the AV1611 Bible Forums who have not embraced Calvinism. At one time it was just: “the "Free-Will" folks on this website” and “the ARMINIANS” (see links below) – He now has “expanded” that list to: “Be warned though that the resident Landmarkers, Arminians and the slice-n-dice the scriptures folks (aka; Dispensationalists)”.

Our brother “PB1789” has never seen fit to refute any of the Posts that I made on the Thread “Calvinism Sound Doctrine?”; instead he has resorted to dismissing us and whatever we may have to say, by the simple device of “LABELING” us first, and then placing us in one “CAMP” or another. By his latest comments, I see he has been forced to reevaluate his private “LABELING SYSTEM” and has now ADDED the: “slice-n-dice the scriptures folks (aka; Dispensationalists)”.

This is a clever “device”, but it fails to refute the Scriptural expose of the doctrines of Calvinism (as put forth in T.U.L.I.P.), and what many of us on the AV1611 Bible Forums believe. Instead “PB1789” has resorted to the last refuge of a man who cannot defend his beliefs – LABELS and calling people NAMES! Just exactly like I said back in March 4 of this year:

AV1611 Bible Forums > Doctrine > CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?” > Post#72
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=72
Quote:

Part of Post #72 - PB1789’s Quote:TULIP was penned as a REPLY to the attacks of the ARMINIANS (not armEnians---they live near present-day Turkey) in the 1600's in The Netherlands, where students of Jacob Hermann (Jacobus Arminius-his Latinized name) a professor -- taught the very things that most of the "Free-Will" folks on this website hold to... but don't even know that they are just doing what Arminius' students did centuries ago in Holland when they attacked the Biblical Doctrine of God's Sovereign Grace, and His All-Knowing/All-Seeing/Omni-Presence with the publication of the "Remonstrance".
AV1611 Bible Forums > Doctrine > CALVINISM: Sound Doctrine?” > Post#73
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...7&postcount=73
Quote:

Part of Post #73 - George’s Quote: “Your weak attempt to "classify" and "label" all of us who disagree with you and your beliefs as the "the Free-Will folks", is the "last refuge" of a man who is unable to defend what he believes, and ends up calling people names! SAD!”
Quote:

Part of Post #73 - George’s Quote: For the record – Please note how a Calvinist (PB1789) goes about labeling (“the "Free-Will" folks on this website”) those of us who disagree with his “precious doctrine”, and placing us in the "ARMINIAN" Camp, just exactly as I said most Calvinists do, in my introductory remarks to this Thread!”
Ask yourself – WHY was it necessary for “PB1789” to “warn” AMR about US? (In an "Introductory Thread" - NO LESS!) Did he not see the man’s “CREDENTIALS”? Does he think that AMR wouldn’t have the discernment to be able to discern where many (if not “most”) of US are coming from? WHY the “warning”? WHY do “Christians” resort to these underhanded tactics? WHY didn’t “PB1789” at least wait for a little while before warning AMR and personally insulting many of the brethren on the Forum?

Is “PB1789” so dissatisfied with the brethren on this Forum that he has to WARN a newcomer to the Forum about US? WHY would “PB1789” want to plant seeds of distrust before AMR even has the opportunity to get to know us, and vise versa? HOW is it that "PB1789" knows that we "will be very upset with you (AMR) simply because you have admitted that you hold to the Reformed Faith." Isn't that prejudging US - BEFORE we have said or done anything?

Today’s “Christians” never cease to amaze me! :confused: Between “Tmonk” and “GREEKtim” seeking to weaken a Christian’s faith in God’s Holy words and “PB1789” attempting to “stir up trouble” with a new member to the Forum (BEFORE anything is even said or done); we sure have our share of “TROUBLEMAKERS”!

It’s like I have said before: I wouldn’t think of joining any church, institution, club, group, Forum, etc., with which I was in fundamental disagreement with; so WHY do these “TROUBLEMAKERS” come here - unless it is to foment dissension, contention, strife, and division? You wouldn’t catch me joining the “FFF” Forum – NOT for ALL the tea in China; NOT ON YOUR LIFE! :eek:

We Christians are supposed to be always edifying one another [Romans 14:19; Romans 15:2; 1Corinthians 10:23; 1Corinthians 14:3, 12, 26; 2 Corinthians 10:8; 2Corinthians 12:19; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Ephesians 4:12-16, 29; 1Thessalonians 5:11;1Timothy 1:4] – NOT always engaging “theological debates” (GREEKtim).

Quote:

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:
Did you notice: that “DEBATE” is up there with – “fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; murder, deceit, and malignity? WHY would a “Christian” ENJOYDEBATE”? I will “contend for the faith”, but I get NO pleasure or enjoyment from DEBATE! I grow weary of all the “gnat-strainers”, “troublemakers", and Sophists! :frusty:

Proverbs 22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.

Waiting for the Morning 06-08-2009 09:26 PM

Hello, This is my first post, I praise my Saviour for some folks who will stand up for the KJB. I'm not sure if Mr. Religion will get this or not, but I wondered if you heard Ian Paisley's radio report on "The Black Pope and His Murder Men". Being a former Jesuit I thought you could verify the info given. If you have not heard it, it is on Sermon Audio . Just for your info, I am not an Armenian or Calvinist but a Bible Believer, I pray that the Lord shows you the peace and joy that can be found in resting in the pure Word's of the Authorized Version.

I also was wandering if Luke is a PBI grad? What I've read of your post's you seem to believe the Book as I do. In Iowa I don't here Christians talk like you and it's a breathe of fresh air to see the Word's of God lifted up and honored.

In Christ's service,

Bro. Thane

geologist 06-08-2009 09:54 PM

"Today’s “Christians” never cease to amaze me!"

I agree, George. Today's "Christian Soldiers" are the only army of soldiers on Earth that bayonet their own wounded.

Ask Mr. Religion 06-08-2009 10:57 PM

I apologize if my post was a trigger for divisiveness. It was certainly not my intent.

Yes, I do recommend TNARS, www.tnars.net, as a great seminary (and free!). We need more initiatives like TNARS. Persons should check out their curriculum and I think they will be pleasantly surprised. Review the oversight board of TNARS here: http://www.tnars.net/members.htm and you will see some familiar names.

AMR

geologist 06-08-2009 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion (Post 21862)
I apologize if my post was a trigger for divisiveness. It was certainly not my intent.

Yes, I do recommend TNARS, www.tnars.net, as a great seminary (and free!). We need more initiatives like TNARS. Persons should check out their curriculum and I think they will be pleasantly surprised. Review the oversight board of TNARS here: http://www.tnars.net/members.htm and you will see some familiar names.

AMR

In THARS Basic Statement of Faith, the first article reads:

"We believe the Bible is the written word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit and without error in the original manuscripts."

The original manuscripts no longer exist. Therefore, if the Word of God is still alive, where is it living now? If you say in many different translations and variants, all of which differ on words omitted, or added, or changed...then what is the final authority that determines what is, or is not, the Word of God today? This is the key point at the heart of the KJV issue.

tonybones2112 06-09-2009 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB1789 (Post 21828)
Hello AMR. Welcome to the website. I clicked on the link to your homepage and I like what I see! Be warned though that the resident Landmarkers, Arminians and the slice-n-dice the scriptures folks (aka; Dispensationalists) will be very upset with you simply because you have admitted that you hold to the Reformed Faith. Post Tenebrux , Lux! Out of Darkness, Light!

I would urge you to look at the first (Home page) of this site and look up the works by Edward Hills (The King James Bible Defended) and also the writings of Dean Burgon. Also read a book by Fuller titled "Which Bible?". The site owner (Diligent) has posted a short list of verses that are different or mangled by the new translations, on the front page called "verse charts". Two that could be included in that chart are John1:1 and Romans 3:25. The NWT and the NIV are really bad translations.

BTW, the Hills book is now available free on the internet thanks to his widow.

Stay on the Path - just as "Christian" was heading for The Celestial City.

Don;t forget the Namecaller.

Grace and peace my friend:)

Tony

chette777 06-09-2009 04:02 AM

AMR,

It is not your fault that men are using your post to demean others on this forum.

PB1789 maybe you should find another site to go to.

I Personally know a man who claims to be an ex-Jesuit priest and now a Baptist pastor. he teaches all versions are the word of God and no preserved text. he teaches a blending of sect teachings concerning spiritual gifts, Rock and Roll music should be used in reaching the lost and edifying the saints, and he personally not only drinks regularly but teaches others it is ok (some have gone over board and have been drunken as he has been seen to be).and teaches Ecumenicalism.

All that he has done and teaches seems to be just what should be expected from an active Jesuit priest who has infiltrated the Baptist ranks.

Not that this is something you are involved in AMR. at least I hope not.

tonybones2112 06-09-2009 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 21836)
The only time I have ever seen you post is to "back up" one of your reformed brethren, and take stabs at the right dividers...

There are no arminians on this board. When they come, they get deleted real quick, because they can't stop blabbing about losing your salvation. I don't think there are any landmarkers either.

PB forgot about the antinomian too, Brother Luke.

Grace and peace

Tony

George 06-09-2009 11:26 AM

Re: "Ask Mr. Religion -Intro"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion (Post 21862)
I apologize if my post was a trigger for divisiveness. It was certainly not my intent.

Yes, I do recommend TNARS, www.tnars.net, as a great seminary (and free!). We need more initiatives like TNARS. Persons should check out their curriculum and I think they will be pleasantly surprised. Review the oversight board of TNARS here: http://www.tnars.net/members.htm and you will see some familiar names.

AMR


Aloha AMR,

There isn't any "need" for you to apologize. You have come to this Forum and have declared WHERE you stand on many Biblical issues, and you also have revealed the extensive training and schooling you have received.

We are not "very upset with you simply because you have admitted that you hold to the Reformed Faith." We believe in Christian Liberty and are far more "tolerant" than many so-called "Bible Forums".

There are three things that we have "problems" with:

1. Correction of the King James Bible and a corresponding disrespectful (demeaning) attitude towards it.

2. Personal slanderous attacks and mudslinging. Or Name Calling (without corresponding proof) and treating Forum members disrespectfully.

3. Out and out HERESY (and of course that includes Hereticks and False False Teachers).

From your "intro", it wouldn't appear that you are that kind of person, so I welcome you to the Forum. We are quite an "Eclectic" group here with no one single Christian Sect or Denomination in control. It is my sincere desire that you might be edified here and that you might edify the brethren here also.

Welcome to the AV1611 Bible Forums. :)

greenbear 06-09-2009 12:30 PM

What's a "Landmarker"?:)

greenbear 06-09-2009 12:37 PM

Welcome to this forum, AMR. I hope you will find all the information and understanding you are looking for about the KJVO issue. Happy to have you here.

Jennifer

Luke 06-09-2009 02:34 PM

Yes, sorry.. welcome MrAR, I should have done that with my first post in this thread :)

@ Greenbear

A Landmarker is, from what I know of them in New Zealand, a Baptist Brider. They deny the "invisible church" ie, the one body, and have a massive focus on the independent authority of the local church, and their "trail of blood". They focus as much on baptism as Church of Christ do, except they don't believe it saves.

@ morning on the previous page

I hope there aren't too many Christians around like me. My words are often without grace, although I am really starting to become aware of it and am learning about death to self ie, reckoning self dead to sin. I didn't even welcome Brother MrAR the first time around, but had a go at PB1789.

I am not a PBI grad either. I am taking a correspondance course from David Peacock's church, but all of the material seems to come from Bro Ruckman's commentaries. I can follow along with Peacock's sermons from Ruckman's commentaries almost word for word at times :) Which is handy I guess.

Hayseed 06-09-2009 04:44 PM

Welcome Mr Religion,I have read your intro.Iam personally not a Calvanist but will look forward to reading your future posts.

Mrs Hayseed:p

Hayseed 06-09-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 21836)

There are no arminians on this board. When they come, they get deleted real quick, because they can't stop blabbing about losing your salvation. I don't think there are any landmarkers either.

I personally like your passion for truth Luke,but as you say we must mix our words with grace...there is enough truth on this board for any new member to peruse and decide if this is the place for him/her.

Mrs Hayseed:p

tonybones2112 06-09-2009 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 21899)
What's a "Landmarker"?:)

The teaching of "old landmarkism", otherwise known as the "Bride" Baptists Jen and was founded in the 1850s most notably by a man named JR Graves. The Bride Baptists believe the present Body of Christ:

1.Began with John The Baptist("John was the first Baptist") and can be traced historically all the way to him.
2.The Body of Christ is composed of exclusively members who can be seen or attend certain churches, which by coincidence, are Bride Baptist Churches. They teach that the "invisible church" , the "universal church" is "Catholic doctrine" and that the Body of Christ can be found nowhere outside the Bride Churches. I know this becasue I attended one for 2 years, one of the largest and most noted in IFB circles in this country. They also treated me like a knothole in the pews because I never "...obeyed the Lord and came forward to submit to following the Lord in Believers Water Baptism as a profession of my faith..." which is Article One of the CHRISTIAN TALMUD.
3. Briders claim that the Body of Christ is also the "bride" of Christ. The "bride of Christ" does not yet exist, and is Restored Beliving Israel as the Scriptures say, the Scriptures say the Body of Christ, us, are members of the Groom's Body

The "bride" Baptist movement was born around the same time in the 1800s as the Church of Christ was being "restored", the Mormon Church was being "restored", and the SDAs were being "restored", the difference in the Bride movement is that it is composed largely of saved Christians yet their church organization, doctrine, practices, and history are about 1/2 inch to the right of the Church Of Christ.

Grace and peace sister

Tony

greenbear 06-09-2009 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 (Post 21935)
The teaching of "old landmarkism", otherwise known as the "Bride" Baptists Jen and was founded in the 1850s most notably by a man named JR Graves. The Bride Baptists believe the present Body of Christ:

1.Began with John The Baptist("John was the first Baptist") and can be traced historically all the way to him.
2.The Body of Christ is composed of exclusively members who can be seen or attend certain churches, which by coincidence, are Bride Baptist Churches. They teach that the "invisible church" , the "universal church" is "Catholic doctrine" and that the Body of Christ can be found nowhere outside the Bride Churches. I know this becasue I attended one for 2 years, one of the largest and most noted in IFB circles in this country. They also treated me like a knothole in the pews because I never "...obeyed the Lord and came forward to submit to following the Lord in Believers Water Baptism as a profession of my faith..." which is Article One of the CHRISTIAN TALMUD.
3. Briders claim that the Body of Christ is also the "bride" of Christ. The "bride of Christ" does not yet exist, and is Restored Beliving Israel as the Scriptures say, the Scriptures say the Body of Christ, us, are members of the Groom's Body

The "bride" Baptist movement was born around the same time in the 1800s as the Church of Christ was being "restored", the Mormon Church was being "restored", and the SDAs were being "restored", the difference in the Bride movement is that it is composed largely of saved Christians yet their church organization, doctrine, practices, and history are about 1/2 inch to the right of the Church Of Christ.

Grace and peace sister

Tony

Tony,

I didn't know one single thing about this so now I know 100% more than I did before I read you post. Thanks!

Jen

tonybones2112 06-09-2009 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 21938)
Tony,

I didn't know one single thing about this so now I know 100% more than I did before I read you post. Thanks!

Jen

Well, this is Mr' R's thread of introduction, I'll conclude by saying a man name of Bob Ross(a KJV critic also)did publish two quite excellent little books, heavily documented from historic sources, on both the Campbellite Church Of Christ and The Bride Movement of JR Graves.

Grace and peace sister

Tony

Ask Mr. Religion 06-09-2009 11:46 PM

Thanks for the warm welcomes. I spent some time reviewing many threads before registering, so I was aware of the pool I was wading into. I am primarily interested in the matter of the KJV as being the definitive Scripture as I have been studying the topic for a few months. Given that bibleprotector and Will Kinney post here, I thought this was a good place for me to "dig deeper".

Lastly, to chette777: I left the Jesuits over twenty years ago. I was labeled a heretic while in the Order for my Jansenist position. I have denounced the RCC as an apostate body and fully subscribe to the WCF, which clearly names the Pope as an Antichrist. I don't know if that will assuage your suspicians of my motivations, but it is easy enough to find what I have written and posted elsewhere. Brother, I know what I am protesting as a Protestant and hope that you will come to see that in me as time passes. ;)

Cheers,
AMR

chette777 06-10-2009 02:43 AM

AMR,

I am not suspicious of you. I just mentioned about a man here claiming to be an ex-Jesuit. but boy oh boy he sure does act like a Jesuit.

I haven't had time to visit your site yet.

keep up the cause brother

PB1789 06-10-2009 11:25 AM

Hello again.
 
Hi "A.M.R.". Welcome again. You did nothing wrong--- no reason for you to think you said anything to apologize for.

Your bio is interesting. I was curious as to what was the "spark" or "sound" or "nudge" that got you to start questioning Rome and the Vatican and the R.C. system ? There is a book ( published by Banner of Truth Trust IIRC) titled "Near to God - Far from Rome" . It has testimonies of former R.C. folks who left, and are now Biblical Christians. Have you seen it ?

BTW - It was also good to see your post as I had seen on monday night a program called "Journey Home" on EWTN ( a R.C. TV network) in which former non-R.C.s and former Protestants tell why they converted to R.C.ism. Don't know if you have seen the program. They almost all seem like nice folks, but... they seem to be a tad short on Bible thinking/knowledge , and instead rely on the idea that Rome is an old group... so it must be "true".

Ask Mr. Religion 06-10-2009 07:34 PM

I have not read the book or seen the program, PB1789.

While a young Jesuit, my father confessor was a closet Jansenist who got me thinking more about justification and "free will". He remained in the order telling me that he preferred to work within RCC rather than leave. I could not do so, feeling led to leave the order before I took the final vows after a seven year journey. Once I tasted the true Good News, there was no choice for me and I have never looked back.

AMR

boaz212 06-11-2009 01:25 PM

Hi AMR, thanks for your encouraging testimony. A warm welcome to the forum!

biblereader 06-21-2009 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 21836)
The only time I have ever seen you post is to "back up" one of your reformed brethren, and take stabs at the right dividers...

There are no arminians on this board. When they come, they get deleted real quick, because they can't stop blabbing about losing your salvation. I don't think there are any landmarkers either.

I realize this is an older post, but, I was looking for discussions on Calvinism vs. other doctrines.

Please define, right dividers, and arminians. Please give contrasting definitions.

biblereader 06-21-2009 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion (Post 21941)
my Jansenist position. I have denounced the RCC as an apostate body and fully subscribe to the WCF, which clearly names the Pope as an Antichrist.
Cheers,
AMR

Please, in layman's terms, what is a Jansenist?


As far as the Roman Catholic church, I'm learning about it, slowly, as I plod through book after book, and the more I know about it, the more I see the RCC as being a key player in end time prophecy. I realize that's probably a no brainer comment, but, I say that, in light of the ferocious loyalty MANY Catholics have to their faith.
What has bothered me through the years, is, how lost people and some Christians, equate born again Christians with the Crusades. IMO, if a person is born again, they will not adhere to the RCC religion. It's not supported by Holy Scripture at all. What makes them so loyal? Even the ones who were not brought up, from infancy, in the RCC, even the older converts, are
staunch in their allegiance!

Luke 06-21-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biblereader (Post 22471)
I realize this is an older post, but, I was looking for discussions on Calvinism vs. other doctrines.

Please define, right dividers, and arminians. Please give contrasting definitions.


Hi Brother...

We tend to consider Arminians as those who hold to a view of conditional security, although in other ways are much like the Calvinists.

Arminians tend to be Amillennial in doctrine, or post-millennial. They tend to deny the eternal security of the believer through Jesus Christ.

Some arminians are premillennial in doctrine, but rarely in practice. For example, the Charasmatic Assemblies of God are premillennial in end times doctrine, but in practice, they are jewish, with their signs and wonders, and do not rightly divide signs and wonders into the proper dispensations of God.

Most arminians believe in Conditional security because they fail to rightly divide the word of truth. They will look at Matthew 24 and see "Endure to the end to be saved", and ignore the context of the verse, and the context of the whole chapter which is the "end of the world". If anyone had to endure to "the end" as defined in Matt 24, noone would be saved yet, because "the end" has not yet come.

A Biblicist, right divider, bible believer, whatever you want to call me, or us, is not arminian. 99% of us will have never read anything by Jacob Arminius, or John Wesley. We don't believe a believer can be lost, even if they fall away for a time. We believe in the free will of man given to man by the Sovereign God, and that man's free will does not hinder the Sovereignty of God. Man's free will can be influenced by God, directed by God, drawn by God, but that man can also reject God's grace.

Most of us rightly divide the word of truth and recognise a distinction between God dealing with Israel and God dealing with the church. This distances us from Arminius and Wesley a great deal, as their views were still highly calvinist, in terms of Christian living.

According to Calvinists, the christian needs to live their life under the law, not as a way of salvation, but as a pattern of life. Failure to do this proves that one was never saved

According to Arminians, the christian needs to live their life under the law, not as a way of salvation, but as a pattern of life. Failure to do this results in a loss of salvation.

According to Dispensationalists/Right dividers, the Christians need not live their life under the law, but recognises that the law is good and holy, and shows us our state, but that we are not under law but under grace. The Christian's motto is "I am dead, nevertheless I live, yet Not I, but Christ, and the life I now live, I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD" He need not keep the law, because the law has been kept. His pattern of life is not law, but the Lord Jesus Christ. Death to self, life through Christ.

That line in bold always gets me accused of preaching "license". But consider this.

Not trying to keep the law is a whole lot different from trying to break it.

An illustration I used in a sermon recently was something like this

When you go to the supermarket to buy groceries, you aren't trying to break the law. But you aren't trying to keep it either. You aren't constantly warning yourself every step of the way not to put the groceries in your pocket, not to steal. You just don't. Because it is a way of life. You don't have to try and keep the law. You probably never even think of it the whole time you are grocery shopping. When you get to the checkout, you do what everyone else does, and you pay for your groceries. You don't get to the car and say "phew, that was tough, I am so glad I didn't steal anything, I was so tempted, but I overcame". You didn't even think of it. If you had been trying to keep the law the whole time you were in the grocery shop, it's because you aren't just resting, and doing what comes NATURALLY. You are still fighting.

It's the same with a Christian. A Christian who is struggling to keep the law is fighting with the old nature. He needs to just die, and let the new nature do what it does NATURALLY - live unto God. Jesus Christ is the new nature, and he never sins, so why would he start sinning in you?

biblereader 06-22-2009 09:16 AM

A Christian who is struggling to keep the law is fighting with the old nature.
You don't have any struggles with temptations any more?



He needs to just die, and let the new nature do what it does NATURALLY - live unto God. Jesus Christ is the new nature, and he never sins, so why would he start sinning in you?
I agree, Jesus will never cause anyone to sin, but, the flesh is still here. We still feel pain, anxiety, hunger, sadness, anger,merriment, fatigue, fear, etc,
and with those normal bodily functions, our thoughts MIGHT, (and do, at least in my life) cause us to sin against God. OF course, God is the only One we sin against, anyways, but, are you saying a dispensationalist is so crucified to Christ, that he never sins?
It would be nice to never give in to temptation to sin, as Jesus says, He will always, always provide a way to bear the sin, and escape sinning. Is that what a dispensationalist life is?

I must not be understanding you completely. You can probably tell, too.

biblereader 06-22-2009 09:21 AM

"I am dead, nevertheless I live, yet Not I, but Christ, and the life I now live, I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD" He need not keep the law, because the law has been kept. His pattern of life is not law, but the Lord Jesus Christ. Death to self, life through Christ.

I live by faith of the son of God..my faith is from Jesus, right? That's what this means?
What do you mean, exactly, by keeping the law? The 600+ rules that the lost Jewish people try to keep?
Or, the Ten Commandments?

I understand "pattern of life". That's what you do, day after day, how you react, where you spend your time, and money, what you do, normally.

Have you completely died to self? How do you know that?
If you completely die to self, does that mean you never worry, or get unrighteously angry, you never slip up, and sin?

biblereader 06-22-2009 09:33 AM

We tend to consider Arminians as those who hold to a view of conditional security, although in other ways are much like the Calvinists.

I have questions about that:
what does Jesus mean, in these verses?
12: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13: Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

He's talking to the brethren, here:
6: But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7: Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8: Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10: Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11: So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13: But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

and, these: 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

biblereader 06-22-2009 09:40 AM

And, if you will be so kind as to forgive me for asking so many questions, but, since you're a preacher, I think you have answers for my many questions:

These verses, have been in my mind for years, and I've wondered about them:

1: Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2: Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3: And this will we do, if God permit.
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9: But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10: For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11: And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

What does perfection mean, here? and, laying on of hands?
I've known entire churches that base their worship on laying on of hands to do everything, from casting out demons, to giving someone the ability to speak in tongues.
The other verses sound to ME, like you CAN lose your salvation.
I understand that God is all powerful, and that we can't earn our way to Heaven, I UNDERSTAND that, and agree with it.
I also know that I know, that men and women, have choices to make, and responsibility for their choices, and sometimes, SOMEtimes, there is
a penalty for a bad choice, right here on earth, but, sometimes, if a person falls away,and rejects Christ, their penalty is eternal torments in flames and agony.

biblereader 06-22-2009 09:45 AM

My goodness, your long reply has triggered many questions in me, and I hope and pray you will have patience with me, and help me to understand these verses, too:

9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Those who take the mark of the beast, will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, AND in the presence of the Lamb! Someone in a Baptist church said Jesus would never be near anyone after they go to the lake of fire, and here, it says, plainly, the LAMB(Jesus) WILL be watching them in agony,forever.
Also, what is the mark? I know it's either in your right hand or forehead, and I understand it to be an ETCHING into and/or under the skin, a permanent mark. What do you know about it?
Verse 12: Why do the saints need patience, if we are dead to sin, and why do the saints need to keep the commandments of GOD?
We are not under the law, so why keep them? But, the bible says these saints will!!

Thank you for bearing with me, I have so many things I want to know.

Luke 06-22-2009 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biblereader (Post 22525)
A Christian who is struggling to keep the law is fighting with the old nature.
You don't have any struggles with temptations any more?

Of course I do. Because I still struggle with the old nature. Jesus said take up the cross DAILY. But I never said temptations. I said struggling to keep the law.

Quote:

He needs to just die, and let the new nature do what it does NATURALLY - live unto God. Jesus Christ is the new nature, and he never sins, so why would he start sinning in you?
I agree, Jesus will never cause anyone to sin, but, the flesh is still here. We still feel pain, anxiety, hunger, sadness, anger,merriment, fatigue, fear, etc,
and with those normal bodily functions, our thoughts MIGHT, (and do, at least in my life) cause us to sin against God. OF course, God is the only One we sin against, anyways, but, are you saying a dispensationalist is so crucified to Christ, that he never sins?
It would be nice to never give in to temptation to sin, as Jesus says, He will always, always provide a way to bear the sin, and escape sinning. Is that what a dispensationalist life is?

I must not be understanding you completely. You can probably tell, too.
You are not understanding me completely. Romans 6 tells us how to deal with sin in our lives. We are not to fight sin with carnal weapons, like the flesh, or even attempt to keep the law to subdue our flesh. We simply identify with our Saviour on the cross. Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ. Romans 8 goes on to tell us the consequences of living after the flesh, and the blessings of being in the spirit.

A Christian does not have to sin. Sinning in a Christians life is a failure to identify himself as DEAD to sin.

This has nothing to do with dispensationalism. It's the Bible way, but most reformed and arminians ignore it, because they run to verses like Jeremiah 33:31 and Ezekial 36:27 to support their claims that God enables the christian to keep the law, when there isn't a christian 100 chapters either side of those verses. A Christian does not need to keep the law. He doesn't need to try. He just needs to daily reckon himself dead to sin, and see that his life was bore away on the cross of calvary in Christ, and that his life is not his own anymore, but Christ's life (Col 3:4 - when Christ, who IS OUR LIFE...)

I have never said and will never say that a Christian can attain sinless perfection. But a Christian does not need to sin. But he will, because he is in the flesh, and there will be times when instead of relying on Christ, he will rely on self.

There are two books I recommend on this subject.

Watchman Nee's "Sit, Walk, Stand"
&
Miles J. Stanford's "The Green Letters"

The latter you can read here http://withchrist.org/MJS/glchapters.htm

Luke 06-22-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biblereader (Post 22526)
"I am dead, nevertheless I live, yet Not I, but Christ, and the life I now live, I live by the FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD" He need not keep the law, because the law has been kept. His pattern of life is not law, but the Lord Jesus Christ. Death to self, life through Christ.

I live by faith of the son of God..my faith is from Jesus, right? That's what this means?
What do you mean, exactly, by keeping the law? The 600+ rules that the lost Jewish people try to keep?
Or, the Ten Commandments?

I understand "pattern of life". That's what you do, day after day, how you react, where you spend your time, and money, what you do, normally.

Have you completely died to self? How do you know that?
If you completely die to self, does that mean you never worry, or get unrighteously angry, you never slip up, and sin?

I haven't completely died to self. It's a DAILY thing, not a one off. Some days I wake up struggling, others I wake up peaceful. And I won't have sinlessness until I recieve a new body, and this mortal shall put in immortality, and DEATH is swallowed up in victory.

But these are the kinds of questions that unbelievers ask... I'm not claiming you are... but if Jesus Christ said "take up the cross" and Paul says "reckon ye yourselves dead to sin", then there is no argument on what to do.

Quote:

I live by faith of the son of God..my faith is from Jesus, right? That's what this means?
Yes, that's what it means. Our faith is imperfect. Jesus faith is perfect. His faith inside us is what allows us to overcome temptations. His mind is perfect, and does not sin or think sinful thoughts, and Paul says "we have the mind of Christ". We only need to appropriate this fact to ourselves and believe it. Sanctification does not come from strong work. It comes from being weaker and weaker and weaker until we cannot get any weaker and we see God as all in all.

Quote:

What do you mean, exactly, by keeping the law? The 600+ rules that the lost Jewish people try to keep?
Or, the Ten Commandments?
By the law, I usually mean 10 commandments. The Christian does not need to try to keep them. But like I said, not trying to keep them is different from trying to break them. Christ's life in the christian has fulfilled the righteousness of the law, not only the 10 commandments, but the entire law. It is written, cursed is the man that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, but Christ was made a curse for us, as it is written, cursed is every man that hangeth upon a tree (that was probably not the correct verses, but it was just quick from memory. It's in Galatians 2 & 3).

Quote:

If you completely die to self, does that mean you never worry, or get unrighteously angry, you never slip up, and sin?
This is one of those theoretical questions. You are assuming that once it happens, it never need be maintained, and the christian will be perfect forevermore. However, the answer is yes, on the condition that one is completely surrendered to Jesus Christ 100% of the time in all things in every place, and sees himself as nothing, dead, but alive unto God always. Since the latter condition is rarely met, the former is also rarely met. But Christians do go for times without sinning.

The real question is, what is the right way to deal with sin?

1) Buckle down, belt up, and hold on tight as you try to keep the law, overcome temptation in the flesh, and obey the ministration of sin and death (LAW), in order to subdue the flesh

2) Identify with Christ on the cross, reckon yourself dead to law, and believe it. Then see yourself alive unto God through Jesus Christ, not under law, but under grace (GRACE).

The former is a law works based sanctification while the latter is God's grace based.

But if righteousness cannot come by the law, why do so many Christians think sanctification can?

Grace to begin with, Grace to continue with.

God bless

Luke 06-22-2009 03:02 PM

About your other three questions, one thing that should be noted is that one of the verses came from Matthew, two of them from Hebrews, one from Peter and the other from Revelation.

Matthew is a Jewish book written to Jewish people about a Jewish king and a Jewish Kingdom of Heaven. Matthew 5-7 makes up the constitution of the Kingdom of Heaven, and is not any plan of salvation.

Hebrews is a Jewish book written to Jewish people about a Jewish Saviour that is better than all of the Jewish laws. It is addressed specifically to Jewish people scattered abroad. This book is one of the earliest books written, and the dispersion of 70AD had not yet happened. The last time the Jews were scattered abroad was during the captivity of Babylon. The next time Babylon shows up and the Jews are scattered (they are now, so the time is ripe) abroad will be during the tribulation.

Hebrews is a Jewish book warning Jews not to take part in the Anti-Christ's religion of animal sacrifices, temple work etc. Jesus blood is a better sacrifice than anything that came before.

Peter is a Jewish book, like the above. But, have you ever heard a Christian being called a dog? No... Christians are sheep. Dogs are unsaved people. In this case, the person was a faker. He left it all because he didn't really believe. He didn't lose his salvation in that case, he never had it.

Revelation is a prophetic book. 90% of it has not yet happened. Forming a doctrine for the church age from Revelation is like trying to toast your bread on dry ice.

Having said all that, and rightly divided the word of truth, every scripture has three applications. There is a fourth as well, but not every scripture is prophetic.

1) Doctrinal
2) Historical
3) Devotional
4) Prophetic

There are many historical and devotional aspects of Hebrews, Matthew, James, Peter, Revelation, and many prophetic as well. There are many doctrinal aspects too.. but some doctrines don't apply to us in this church age today. They are for another dispensation.

CKG 06-22-2009 05:25 PM

One writer puts it this way;
“Never does Paul challenge us to "die to self." We are never told to seek crucifixion or to crucify ourselves. We are crucified with Christ, a present reality, not an inducement to apprehend. Crucifixion with Christ is not the goal, but the very historical event on which we originally entered a relationship with Christ.”
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Colossians 3
1. If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.


Romans 6
1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When a person gets saved they are baptized into Christ which includes being baptized into His death, burial, and resurrection. We are now “in Christ” and He lives in us.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Being in Christ we are new creatures.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
In Christ we are dead to and freed from sin.
Romans 6:7-8 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
You don’t die to sin or crucify yourself. It is an accomplished fact, not something you do.
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
We are to know what God says and believe it. The Christian life is a life of faith.
Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

2 Corinthians 5: 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight
Being dead to sin is not sinless perfection. We still live in bodies of flesh and are capable of sinning, but based on our position in Christ (crucified, buried, and risen with Him) and His indwelling us by His Holy Spirit, sin is no longer our master.
Romans 6
6. ......that henceforth we should not serve sin

12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

In spite of being well past their child bearing years, God told Abraham that he and Sarah would have a child. God told Abraham a great nation would come from him, promised him a tract of land and told him in him all of the nations would be blessed. What was Abraham’s response? He believed it. It had nothing to do with whether he felt like these were so or if could figure it out. God said it and Abraham believed it. Abraham might be the father of the Jews, but he his the father of faith to us.

Galatian 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
God says you are dead to sin. Do you believe what God said? He didn’t ask you if you felt like you were dead to sin. He said you are now, present tense, dead to sin. I’ve read behind Miles Stanford and have learned from him, but he will correct the KJV in his “Green Letters” series

Being dead to sin is the basis for a walk over the power of sin. Having said that we still live in bodies of flesh :
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Now if you were a drunkard before you got saved don’t go to the bars exposing yourself to alcohol. If you have problems with lust, you might not want to hang out at the beach and you’d better be careful what those eyes look at. Being dead to sin is an accomplished fact, but there is still a growing process we must go through.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


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