AV1611 Bible Forum Archive

AV1611 Bible Forum Archive (https://av1611.com/forums/index.php)
-   Current Events (https://av1611.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Kent Hovind Legal Update (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1067)

Bro. Parrish 03-05-2009 04:38 PM

Kent Hovind Legal Update
 
Letter from Eric Hovind

Dear Friends,
As many of you know, the past several years have been a whirlwind of activity for Creation Science Evangelism and the Hovind family. In November of 2006, my dad, Dr. Hovind, was convicted on three federal charges, and in January of 2007 was sentenced to ten years in federal prison. Despite the bad press, and the many misunderstandings, I am convinced that my dad is totally innocent of the charges brought before him. Currently he has served two and one-half years of his ten-year sentence and is in South Carolina at the Edgefield Prison Camp. My mother was also convicted on one charge, and in July of 2007 was sentenced to one year and a day in prison. However, she was granted a stay request pending the outcome of an appeal. On January 1, 2009, I received the notice that the 11th Circuit upheld every decision made by the district court and now my parents are both imprisoned... more here:
http://www.drdino.com/legalupdate.ph...+Entire+Letter...

Luke 03-05-2009 04:51 PM

You know what I am sick of? The inevitable responses about Kent Hovind breaking the law.

Why do we pray for men in other countries who stand up for truth and are persecuted, shot, killed, dismembered, imprisoned etc, but when someone in our own country does it (I'm pretending I am american for 5 minutes), heaps of people say "Oh, he was a King James nut, and should have paid his taxes, and he should be in jail". God bless the man for standing up against a corrupt government. And God bless him for his persecution which he endures.

Bro. Parrish 03-05-2009 05:40 PM

Anyone see a double standard below... nahhh, couldn't be. :cool:

Former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle withdrew from consideration for a Cabinet post AFTER it was found he owed $140,000 in back taxes and fines. Four prominent Democratic senators spoke out publicly in support of Daschle. On Feb 2, 2009, the White House called Daschle's tax debt a "serious mistake," but announced that Obama "absolutely" supports his nomination to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner won confirmation to his Cabinet post under Obama -- running the agency that runs the Internal Revenue Service -- only AFTER paying $34,000 in back taxes that were discovered owed during the administration's vetting of him.

Nancy Killefer, who was in line to become the Obama's first "Chief Performance Officer," (!) withdrew from consideration after it was disclosed that she had failued to pay unemployment compensation tax. She hadn't paid the lien filed in 2005 for a year and a half.

Ron Kirk, President Barack Obama's nominee for trade representative also has a history of tax problems—The Senate Finance Comittee reports that Kirk, a former mayor of Dallas, owes roughly $10,000 in back federal taxes and has finally agreed to pay them. At the same time, Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) says the ex-mayor is the right man for the post of trade representative, and he will try to move the nominee's confirmation along quickly... (?)

Winman 03-05-2009 06:17 PM

Well, if you are a strong supporter of abortion, embryonic stem cell research, the banning of Intelligent Design or Creationism in schools, displays of religion in public buildings and parks, banning firearms, and most importantly Socialism.... you can probably get away with not paying taxes. You might even get a Cabinet position in the current administration.

But if you go to high schools and colleges across the nation and teach people the truth, somebody is going to pick up the phone and call the IRS on you.

Now we know why Democrats don't mind raising taxes-- they don't pay them. :)

It's OK, I bet Kent will lead dozens of prisoners to the Lord. You can't keep a good man down.

stephanos 03-05-2009 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 16300)
You know what I am sick of? The inevitable responses about Kent Hovind breaking the law.

Why do we pray for men in other countries who stand up for truth and are persecuted, shot, killed, dismembered, imprisoned etc, but when someone in our own country does it (I'm pretending I am american for 5 minutes), heaps of people say "Oh, he was a King James nut, and should have paid his taxes, and he should be in jail". God bless the man for standing up against a corrupt government. And God bless him for his persecution which he endures.

Yep, I've had at least a half dozen people criticize my support for Hovind because he supposedly broke the law. It's completely rediculous tbh. I wish I could take his place in prison so that he could continue to teach creation science.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Winman 03-05-2009 08:38 PM

Did you see Kent Hovind's letter at that link? Here is a portion of his letter:

Quote:

Meanwhile, the assistant U.S. attorney continues to attempt to seize the ministry property. The government figured that the "damages" our "structuring" caused was $3,500, yet they want to seize $430,000 from me based on Title 21 drug laws! Because I do not have the money, they want to seize and auction off the ministry property! There are nearly twenty-five people living on the premises that would be displaced. Pray for Eric and the church attorney to have wisdom to stop this.


Unbelieveable, Daschle owed $140,000, Geithner $34,000, and Kirk $10,000. These guys are running around free and the IRS is not trying to take their property. :tsk:

Bro. Parrish 03-05-2009 09:32 PM

I'm thinking maybe Hovind needs a new lawyer. :mad:

Rolando 03-05-2009 10:29 PM

I thank God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ for brothers like Kent Hovind. His seminars (seven part series) have been a huge blessing to me! The LORD have used them to strengthen my faith, and even my unsaved little brother (who claims to be saved but I believe not because he at first couldn't believe Jesus was the ONLY way, is VERY worldly, doesn't care about the things of God, and has no Holy Spirit conviction) enjoyed them. I guess all I can do for now is to continue praying to our LORD for our brother Kent Hovind.:pray:

chette777 03-08-2009 02:48 AM

I think Kent Hovin has done a good job in his field as a creation scientist.

However the charges were not trumped up as so many are led to believe. his Organization failed to give W2'and 1040 forms to those who had been receiving money from the Organization and those receiving the money did not claim it at the end of the year as income. They failed to withhold income tax dividends and send them to the IRS each quarter Bi annual or annually. This could be also charged as money laundering. W2's show the tax withheld and sent to the IRS, 1040 show the income given but no tax deducted.

All the organization had to do was keep records of all money coming in, file W2's and 1040's at the end of each year for individuals, and them they themselves file. Then send the tax withheld to the IRS at the end of each quarter it is all very simple.

Kent was involved with a group (and may still be) who believe that paying taxes is illegal so he did not deduct them for his employees tax nor did he file tax each year for his Organization and himself.

Romans 13 tells us to obey the governing authority for they are ordained of God. Paying taxes imposed by our governing authority is our duty as Christian’s whether we believe it is legal or not is not the question. We are to obey God’s word never the less over anything any men may teach on this matter.

If one does not obey the word of God they are in sin. The result in this case of Mr Hovinds sin is tax crime convictions of a failure to report money properly and withholding taxes a prescribed by law for employees an d himself. But never the less it was a failure to submit to the rules of the Govt concerning taxation of wages and how it is to be handled. He could be innocent being ignorant of the laws but there was no reason for it for so many years. This was not a one time thing this had gone on for years. So he serves time for sin that is to be expected.

He is no Joseph in this matter. These are not false charges. So beware of worshiping men even if they may seem good and godly. He made a mistake he should admit it and do the time and move on.

stephanos 03-08-2009 05:27 AM

I'm sorry Chette, but I just don't believe you.

Quote:

Letter from Eric Hovind

Dear Friends,

As many of you know, the past several years have been a whirlwind of activity for Creation Science Evangelism and the Hovind family. In November of 2006, my dad, Dr. Hovind, was convicted on three federal charges, and in January of 2007 was sentenced to ten years in federal prison. Despite the bad press, and the many misunderstandings, I am convinced that my dad is totally innocent of the charges brought before him. Currently he has served two and one-half years of his ten-year sentence and is in South Carolina at the Edgefield Prison Camp. My mother was also convicted on one charge, and in July of 2007 was sentenced to one year and a day in prison. However, she was granted a stay request pending the outcome of an appeal. On January 1, 2009, I received the notice that the 11th Circuit upheld every decision made by the district court and now my parents are both imprisoned. We took my mother, Jo, to prison on January 20, to begin serving her sentence. Please pray that God will give her strength as she goes through this difficult time.

Our attorneys sought to have the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals reexamine the case because the decision appears to legally conflict with previous Supreme Court rulings. However, the 11th Circuit denied hearing the case any further. This recent decision is a huge disappointment for those who realize the many questions of law involved in the case and who have prayed so fervently for the case to be overturned. This appeal would have provided opportunity to present arguments which could have released Dr. Hovind, dismissed Mrs. Hovind's sentence, and rescinded the confiscation of CSE property. With this most recent decision by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, the Court has determined that CSE may be forced to forfeit its property to the government. We are currently in litigation concerning this very issue.

We are seeking God's direction in this matter, and we pray that these legal problems will not get the best of this vital ministry. I have no interest in fighting legal battles. I just want to win souls. This is why CSE exists, and I hope that you will join us in praying for God's will concerning this situation. One thing we know for sure, God will glorify Himself, regardless of the outcome.

For those interested in a more detailed update, we have arranged a series of conference calls. Click here to view the conference call schedule.

Despite the legal battles, our team continues to push forward presenting the creation message in a fresh new way.

Thank you for your faithful prayers and support!
Letter from Dr. Kent Hovind

Dear Friends,

The 11th Circuit denied our appeal without addressing many issues. Meanwhile, my wife was ordered to report to prison on January 20, 2009 to serve her one-year-and-one-day sentence.

Lindsey Springer is gathering money and support to take this case to the Supreme Court. There are several key issues in our case that, if won, could help scores of churches, ministries, and individuals in the future.

Meanwhile, the assistant U.S. attorney continues to attempt to seize the ministry property. The government figured that the "damages" our "structuring" caused was $3,500, yet they want to seize $430,000 from me based on Title 21 drug laws! Because I do not have the money, they want to seize and auction off the ministry property! There are nearly twenty-five people living on the premises that would be displaced. Pray for Eric and the church attorney to have wisdom to stop this.

The ministry continues to send out DVDs in twenty-nine languages and reports come in every day of saved souls! If I were the devil, I would hate this outreach and try to stop it as well!

Like Joseph (Gen. 40:15), Job (Job 2:3; 27:5; 31:6), and Paul (Acts 25:10), I continue to maintain my innocence and integrity. God will be the final Judge (see Hebrews 9:27)! Be ready for that day!

My prison life is easy compared to many in the Bible and in Muslim and communist countries today. I am safe, rested, and in shape, and I have lots of time to read, write, and witness. Of the 490 men here probably one hundred are active in Christian studies and services.



Frequently Asked Questions

Q: What were the accusations against Dr. Hovind and what was his defense?

1. Failure to withhold employee-related taxes:

Explanation:
From the start of the ministry, Dr. Hovind sought legal counsel on the proper way to compensate those who would serve with him in the ministry. He was told by several attorneys that as a 508 organization, CSE was not required to withhold taxes and that each person serving would be responsible for paying their own income taxes. For seventeen years the ministry operated without incident, and no notice was ever given to CSE or Dr. Hovind that the IRS wanted any changes made on this issue until the day the charges were brought.


2.Structuring cashing transactions in order to evade bank reporting requirements:

Explanation:
Up until 2003, CSE withdrew cash in order to compensate those who served at CSE. There was no knowledge of bank secrecy laws and never any intention of evading Internal Revenue Service regulations.


3.Threatening and impeding the investigation of a government agency:

Explanation:
Because Dr. Hovind filed papers questioning actions of the IRS, which was his legal right, he was charged with "impeding" the agency. They also believed he "threatened agents with bodily harm" by praying for those involved on public radio.

I for one support Hovind 100% and believe that what he was doing was legal (despite what you and others may say) and that he was not acting out in rebellion to what the Word of God says.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

chette777 03-08-2009 06:03 AM

Stephanos,

It is not about believing me do you believe Gods word in Romans 13?

I like Kent as a guy he is nice and smart. But he broke the law by not deducting income tax from his employees checks and submitting it to the IRS. then failed to send out W2's and 1040'2.

They transacted transferred money without reporting it to the IRS. The IRS could have gone further and charged him with Money Laundering. It was the same technique used by syndicate when hiding drug and smuggled merchandise money. Move the money around like in a shell game. It is illegal. the IRS used bank documents to prove their case. Kent Hovind had the wrong counsel on those issues.

I have a friend an ex pastor who spent 3 years in A Florida Jail for the same charges.He will tell what he did was followed someone else advice and not the Law. He admitted to guilt under ignorance and had to pay the taxes and serve time. He wanted to kill that elder who believed in Gary De Mar's group who tells pastors not to pay taxes.

None of us were there to verify if Kent did make threats or not so I never touched that. But I do know this it doesn't take much to get the IRS to do stuff like that if they feel threatened.

It doesn't matter who you seek counsel from you better find out the facts for yourself cause you will be the one held responsible not the counselors

I have been there and Know what I am talking about also. I had to show my income for 10 years when the IRS finally got around to me. after it was all said and done. I owed nothing. the lesson learned even if you owe nothing file your tax forms yearly. the feds are not so much into it but Virginia is and they reported me as a State tax dodger and so the IRS had to investigate. the lady at the Richmond Virginia tax office was left giving more explanations to the IRS than I. Virginia had to remove and restore my credit after they had sent collection agencies after me to collect taxes I didn't owe.

if you want to know the truth on employees of a "not for profit organization". which is just the same as any organization when it come to employees. Get a copy of "Church and clergy Tax Guide" updated every year or visit the IRS web site and research for yourself.

he admits he failed to follow the law in deducting taxes from his employees checks and then filing W2's or 1040's. for seventeen years they did not deduct employees taxes so they should of at least filed 1040's to protect themselves. the oversight by the IRS was that they had thought their employees were getting 1040's and paying their own taxes. that turned out not to be the case. They probably would have went for more years had no body looked and found out.

the point being the US IRS Governing Authority was not being obeyed by this man for over 17 years. For seventeen years he was in sin and definitely not blameless as a Christian Leader. He may have been ignorantly innocent but ignorance is no excuse.


Stephen, you may feel the Government has no right but they are the governing Authority we are to obey. they have laid down laws that need to be followed. especially because God tells us too. those taxes are Caesar and we are to give unto Caesar what is his and God what is his. Kent definitely did the later but he didn't do render unto Caesar.

it doesn't matter whether you or Kent or Gary De Marr feel the government violates the constitution they have the laws set already your duty as a Christian is to obey. i know it seems tough but God will honor a man who will follow God's word even to that mans own hurt.

MC1171611 03-08-2009 06:56 AM

Kent Hovind broke no laws, just like David Karesh broke no laws. Both were persecuted by legal action because of RELIGIOUS beliefs. One is in prison, one is dead.

Here are some facts that most people don't know, that Bro. Hovind does know, and the government does not want you to know:

1) The IRS is an unconstitutional bureau that legally has no jurisdiction over American citizens

2) The 16th Amendment was not legally ratified, meaning that the income tax is unconstitutional

3) The income tax, as it stands, only applies to corporate income, not personal or individual, though the IRS doesn't want you to know that, and the corrupt courts aren't going to believe that

Kent Hovind followed the laws in what the government felt was a "shady" manner, but he still broke no laws. For anyone to argue that he broke a law is ignorant and simply shows that they are unaware of the situation and the legal statutes involved.

On the other hand, I feel that it is more important for me to keep a good outward testimony (and I also don't want to wind up in prison) because I'm called to be a missionary, and getting caught up in something like Bro. Hovind did would be suicidal for my ministry. Therefore, I will pay all taxes on declared income in order to keep from causing myself heartache. However, I fully support Bro. Hovind in his cause and hope that justice will be served and we can get the blight that is the IRS removed from our nation once and for all.

Jeremy 03-08-2009 09:31 AM

I don't get it,construction subcontractors do not withold taxes,they tell there employees that,its there responsibility to pay those taxes.

A few yours ago the IRS said i had not payed my taxes,i sent them a copy of the check , didn't hear anything,the next year they did the same thing. 2 years in a row they had done this. I will never know why.:confused:

Rolando:
Quote:

I thank God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ for brothers like Kent Hovind.
:amen:

Bro. Parrish 03-08-2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16465)
These are not false charges. So beware of worshiping men even if they may seem good and godly. He made a mistake he should admit it and do the time and move on.

Chette: Come on, chill out brother, nobody is WORSHIPPING Hovind.
Last time I checked he and his wife are BOTH doing the time, so maybe their accusers should "move on." :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC1171611
The 16th Amendment was not legally ratified, meaning that the income tax is unconstitutional... The income tax, as it stands, only applies to corporate income, not personal or individual, though the IRS doesn't want you to know that, and the corrupt courts aren't going to believe that...

I think this is correct.
I looked at this many years ago, so I'm a little rusty on it now but I think anyone who researches this will find that Americans were never supposed to pay tax on their personal income, it was originally called the "War Tax" as I recall it was supposed to be repealed after the war. I always play by the rules, but I can tell you I know a guy who never pays income tax, he sends them a letter every year and tells them why. He belongs to a group that has challenged the IRS in court and he says they win their cases almost every time because when you really get down to the nitty gritty, the law is on their side. I am not advocating this for others, just saying some of these movements are winning in court, more here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21745
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=17023
http://www.bigeye.com/incometax.htm

stephanos 03-08-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 16486)
Chette: Come on, chill out brother, nobody is WORSHIPPING Hovind.
Last time I checked he and his wife are BOTH doing the time, so maybe their accusers should "move on." :)



I think this is correct.
I looked at this many years ago, so I'm a little rusty on it now but I think anyone who researches this will find that Americans were never supposed to pay tax on their personal income, it was originally called the "War Tax" as I recall it was supposed to be repealed after the war. I always play by the rules, but I can tell you I know a guy who never pays income tax, he sends them a letter every year and tells them why. He belongs to a group that has challenged the IRS in court and he says they win their cases almost every time because when you really get down to the nitty gritty, the law is on their side. I am not advocating this for others, just saying some of these movements are winning in court, more here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=21745
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=17023
http://www.bigeye.com/incometax.htm

I know a few guys that do the same thing, but they all end up, or have been in jail for trying to fight this.

No matter how one looks at things, our goverment is performing illegally. The Constitution is the Higher Power in this nation and it is being trodden under foot by despots who care not for the Happiness and Safety (Declaration of Independance) of American citizens.

Concerning taxes. I will give to Caesar what is Caesars, but I WILL NOT give to Caesar what is God's.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Luke 03-08-2009 03:54 PM

I predicted this would happen. The guy is in jail, the court date is gone, stop trying to be correct, either side. Pray for him.

Who cares about the ratifications to the fifth amendment by the standing court of judicial tax law in regards to 501c3 tax exempt institution status according to the tenth statement by the grand jury in regards to the Jackson Vs Hilmes trial of the 1990's, in which the IRS was deemed to be unconstitutional and against the higher power of the democratic government by which this country was founded, and Kent was not taxed on personal income, but on extra personal income and the 16th ammendment was not ratified and render unto ceasar what is caesars and WHO CARES ANYMORE... (I made that up in case anyone thinks otherwise and decides to argue about the random words I just wrote).

I don't see anyone here arguing in defense of Wesley Snipes.

Bro. Parrish 03-08-2009 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanos (Post 16491)
No matter how one looks at things, our goverment is performing illegally. The Constitution is the Higher Power in this nation and it is being trodden under foot by despots who care not for the Happiness and Safety (Declaration of Independance) of American citizens.

I think you have a very good point here brother...

chette777 03-10-2009 11:55 PM

It is God's ordained higher power over you is the US Govt if you live in the US. Obey Romans 13 or disobey and let the chips fall where they may.

We do pray for Kent. but he just wont admit he did wrong confession is key to getting right with God on the issue of his word in Rom 13

MC1171611 03-11-2009 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16646)
It is God's ordained higher power over you is the US Govt if you live in the US. Obey Romans 13 or disobey and let the chips fall where they may.

We do pray for Kent. but he just wont admit he did wrong confession is key to getting right with God on the issue of his word in Rom 13

Kent Hovind didn't do anything wrong. You just aren't getting it.

If the government told you to go kill your neighbor for no reason, even though it was against the law, would you do it?

So, if the government tells you to pay income tax, which is against the law, should you be required to do so, especially if you have a conviction against doing so?

Income tax is unconstitutional and is therefore voluntary.

Bro. Parrish 03-11-2009 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16646)
it doesn't matter whether you or Kent or Gary De Marr feel the government violates the constitution they have the laws set already your duty as a Christian is to obey....

It is God's ordained higher power over you is the US Govt if you live in the US.

Chette,
I agree with you to a point brother, with regard to being subject to the LAWS of the land. However, if those laws are not valid we must uphold the Constitution. Furthermore, I will always contend that Americans no not live under kings or royalty, or any such system. Our leaders are elected and paid SERVANTS of the people, no more no less. In essence they are employees of the citizens. I believe we can apply Romans 13 just fine, right up to the point where the government starts taking our inalienable rights and forgetting that it too is subject to the God who gave them to us. Then all bets are off, as we are reminded by the framers of our nation that tyrants are to be cast down and even the government itself shaken off, if it threatens our God-given freedom. That's why the language of the Second Amendment prohibits the Federal Government from “infringing” on the right of the people.

"If the federal government should overpass the just bounds of its authority and make a tyrannical use of its powers, the people, whose creature it is, must appeal to the standard they have formed, and take such measures to redress the injury done to the Constitution as the exigency may suggest and prudence justify." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes." -- James Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 46

"If it be asked, What is the most sacred duty and the greatest source of our security in a Republic? The answer would be, An inviolable respect for the Constitution and Laws." -- Alexander Hamilton

Here's an interesting link:
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/six-about-2nd.htm

TheBibleSender 03-11-2009 03:40 PM

Anyone have any info about David Gibbs testifing against Hovind in this? I heard it somewhere but would like some more info before I go around saying it's true. God bless. :)

stephanos 03-11-2009 03:59 PM

This is the beginning of one of the most beautiful documents ever penned:

Quote:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government.
If Chette or anyone wants to be picky, this entire country was built upon rebellion against the Higher Powers of the King of England. But the past is the past. Let us take to heart the Declaration of Independance and return to a government whose powers are defined within the Constitution. Then, and only then, will America know peace again.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Bro. Parrish 03-11-2009 06:20 PM

Stephen,
I couldn't have said it better myself, nice post. :amen:

chette777 03-12-2009 12:59 AM

good luck with your rebellion guys. Me I will submit and be a servant. and I will have my reward in Heaven. though we may hold these truths to be self evident that every man is created equal by his creator God's word never has promised us anything in this world.

Psalmist says, Ps 33:18, 19 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
and

Ps 34:11-19 Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD. What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good? Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it. The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

The fear of the Lord is to do what is right and no matter how you want to justify taxes our legal representative voted in those taxes and we are obligated to pay them under the Romans 13 mandate from God's word.

Bro. Parrish 03-12-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16697)
good luck with your rebellion guys. Me I will submit and be a servant. and I will have my reward in Heaven. though we may hold these truths to be self evident that every man is created equal by his creator God's word never has promised us anything in this world.

Psalmist says, Ps 33:18, 19 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
and

Ps 34:11-19 Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD. What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good? Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it. The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.

The fear of the Lord is to do what is right and no matter how you want to justify taxes our legal representative voted in those taxes and we are obligated to pay them under the Romans 13 mandate from God's word.

Chette, between your accusing us on this thread of MAN WORSHIP and REBELLION, your insults are getting old, my brother. :rolleyes:

I started a thread to give a simple update on a man that many of us admire for his service to God for many years. I never said he was perfect. We can turn this into a taxation debate if you really want to, but I think even you will have to admit that if SOMEONE didn't rebel SOMEWHERE down through history, we would all be in serfdom to some tyrant or evil king, or working in a factory for a godless COMMUNIST with no opportunity to even read the Bible, hand out tracts or go to church because they would have been BANNED AT THE STATE LEVEL. God delivered us from that, and gave us the laws to avoid ever going back to it, whether you accept it or not. No one here is advocating tax evasion. We are merely discussing the reality of the law vs. our Constitution, and I don't know why you can't see that.

By the way, Ps 33:18-19 certainly seems like a promise to me!

chette777 03-13-2009 06:41 AM

you read and interpret with your own heart Brother and not necessarily my my intentions.

you can admire men and as I said he does a great job in his position of creationism. however I wouldn't emulate him in his tax methods. and if any of you do you'll end up in the same place he is. remember admiration can be man worship we need to make like the Lord and have no respect of person. But give honor where honor is due.

I said good luck for it sounds as if some of you feel in your hearts that because of your interpretation of the constitution paying your taxes is wrong even if the Govt passed laws on how and when and to whom taxes apply. but if the Govt has instituted tax laws we are to follow their laws no matter if they are unconstitutional. rebellion starts in the heart first long before the first steps are taken.

Rebellion could and/or could not be okay with God when it involves his Children. But we all know that God allows things to take place to fulfill his will not the will of the Rebels. so the US is where it is today for God purposes not necessarily for those who rebelled in the 1770's.

if I did make you feel insulted then make like a duck in water let roll off.

Bro. Parrish 03-13-2009 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16741)
you read and interpret with your own heart Brother and not necessarily my my intentions.

you can admire men and as I said he does a great job in his position of creationism. however I wouldn't emulate him in his tax methods. and if any of you do you'll end up in the same place he is. remember admiration can be man worship we need to make like the Lord and have no respect of person.

Whatever, I just think you really need to ease up on the man worship thing my brother. As I have stated several times no one is advocating tax evasion---are you listening? I see nothing wrong with following the law and paying taxes, nor do I see anything wrong with challenging unconstitutional laws in court---and that includes any tax laws politicians may decide to add to the people along the way. It's well within our legal system and it's done all the time. If they tax the people too much, the people get together and vote them out of office. Do you consider voting a form of rebellion? Why not? If you vote against a government leader is that not "rebellion" in your view? I hope not, because that's one of the ways we CONTROL our government, instead of them controlling us. Question, are you American or were you born in the Phillipines?

chette777 03-13-2009 10:33 AM

I am Anglo Saxon American. Born in Chicago IL, Raised in So Cal, saved in Maui Hawaii, went to Bible college in Virginia.

Bro. Parrish 03-13-2009 11:05 AM

Do you pay taxes to the Phillipine government on your personal income?

Winman 03-13-2009 07:46 PM

Chette

I am a big fan of Kent Hovind, have watched his videos for several years on YouTube. I think it is fantastic that he travelled to High Schools and Universities giving seminars and debating evolutionists. He would often take on several evolutionists at once. Even evolutionists admit that he won most (if not all) of the debates. After years of being brain-washed by the atheists that run our education system, I think it is fantastic that students are exposed to the truth of the Bible and the six-day creation account.

But Kent Hovind made many enemies. These God-hating atheists wanted to stop Hovind. And I promise you that is what is at the root of his tax problems. We showed before officials in President Obama's administration who owed far more taxes than what Hovind is accused of owing. Not only were they not sent to jail, some were confirmed into Obama's cabinet.

To show you an example of the hatred for Hovind, look at this video. The video itself is crude and tasteless, it would appeal to the enemies of Christ. But what I would like you to look at is comments in the grey colored upper right portion of the video. Click on "more info" to see how this person absolutely hates Kent Hovind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjKMhtyI3L8

And read the hateful comments below the video as well.

And this is nothing. You can literally find hundreds of videos on YouTube spewing outright hatred at Hovind. When a truly godly man speaks the truth the way Kent Hovind has and does, the demons of Hell come out against him.

Just because someone is convicted by the law, doesn't mean they have commited a crime.

Matt 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death; 60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses, 61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. 62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

chette777 03-13-2009 08:28 PM

I have Kent Hovind's whole dvd collection. he may well have enemies. but his enemies would have nothing on him if he did his taxes according to the law if the IRS.

having Enemies doesn't give one excuses for failure to withhold taxes from employees checks and deposit it each quarter into the IRS accounts for 17years.

it is not false even Kent admits to it. but just doesn't see that he did wrong.

chette777 03-13-2009 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 16751)
Do you pay taxes to the Philippines government on your personal income?

yes, if I make money here over a certain amount a prescribed by Philippine law other wise there is not income tax on low income wage earners. we also have a yearly city tax which we pay and property tax which we pay.

For all my support from friends and family from the States is filed in the US by my sending church using a 1040 form. I just filed my 1040 for this year and sent it off.

how about you do yo pay your taxes?

Bro. Parrish 03-13-2009 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16766)
yes, if I make money here over a certain amount a prescribed by Philippine law other wise there is not income tax on low income wage earners. we also have a yearly city tax which we pay and property tax which we pay.

For all my support from friends and family from the States is filed in the US by my sending church using a 1040 form. I just filed my 1040 for this year and sent it off.

how about you do yo pay your taxes?

Yep, as I already told you in post no. 14, I always play by the rules. So are you required to pay taxes to the U.S., or just the Phillipine government, or both?

chette777 03-14-2009 01:23 AM

My income from the US is only taxable only in the US. I

pay a community tax and property tax in the Philippines every years. if I make over $200 a month from Philippines sources then I need to pay tax on it at the end of each year. But I don't make any money here as of yet.

when and if we go into business I need to pay business taxes, plus employee tax deductible dividends that need to be done every quarter. Or I can report the employees full wages to the BIR and the employee is responsible to pay their own tax if over $200 per month. most only live on $40 a week and never make the taxable grade

but we are not doing any business yet we are planning to do some in thenext year but we may not make any money.

Bro. Parrish 03-14-2009 09:15 AM

Gotcha. So the reality is, you don't pay ANY taxes yourself.
Well in that case I hope you make a lot of money with that business brother, perhaps one day you will end up having to pay 40 percent of your income to the government, like some of us in the U.S. Then, when you try to read the tax code regarding your business or employees and find that it's so complicated that an well-educated human can't even understand it, then you can come back and bash brother Hovind some more if it makes you feel good. This might prove to be a special blessing to you and strengthen your admiration for the whole process. When they take 40 percent of your income and use it for things like Planned Parenthood abortions and $650 million for digital-TV coupons, I want you to come back here and tell us how spiritual it makes you feel and what a blessing it is, okay? God bless you brother, best wishes for your success! :) Meanwhile here's an interesting article...

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...how/22917.html

Winman 03-14-2009 09:22 AM

I think it is very revealing that Hovind got a 10-year sentence for a tax debt of only $3500? There are people that get far less than that for serious violent crimes. That is, if Kent is even guilty at all.

Timothy Geithner, our new Treasury Secretary owed almost 10 times that much. Is he is jail?

So, you don't see a problem there? I do.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Chette, I am a little shocked you don't support this brother in Christ who has probably done more than any other Christian to take the truth of God's Word to young people who are being brain-washed by the God hating atheists in our education system.

kittn1 03-14-2009 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winman (Post 16785)
I think it is very revealing that Hovind got a 10-year sentence for a tax debt of only $3500? There are people that get far less than that for serious violent crimes. That is, if Kent is even guilty at all.

Timothy Geithner, our new Treasury Secretary owed almost 10 times that much. Is he is jail?

So, you don't see a problem there? I do.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

:amen:, it looks like someone's out to make an example of Hovind, or he's just too effective at giving God the glory by pointing folks to creation science and Satan wanted him "silenced"...although what Satan means for evil, God often turns around for good.

Same God, same gospel, different audience. The thing with sharing the Gospel in jail is that most times the inmates don't need to be convinced that they're sinners. There's a lot of folks behind bars who are searching....

Bro. Parrish 03-14-2009 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittn1 (Post 16799)
There's a lot of folks behind bars who are searching....

That's a good point sister... :)

chette777 03-15-2009 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 16784)
Gotcha. So the reality is, you don't pay ANY taxes yourself.
Well in that case I hope you make a lot of money with that business brother, perhaps one day you will end up having to pay 40 percent of your income to the government, like some of us in the U.S. Then, when you try to read the tax code regarding your business or employees and find that it's so complicated that an well-educated human can't even understand it, then you can come back and bash brother Hovind some more if it makes you feel good. This might prove to be a special blessing to you and strengthen your admiration for the whole process. When they take 40 percent of your income and use it for things like Planned Parenthood abortions and $650 million for digital-TV coupons, I want you to come back here and tell us how spiritual it makes you feel and what a blessing it is, okay? God bless you brother, best wishes for your success! :) Meanwhile here's an interesting article...

Been there and done that. what do you think I have been a missionary by faith all my life? I have read the Tax codes. last year I spent 3 months reading them so stick a sock in your accusations

I have owned restaurants, night clubs, Pizza Franchises. I have worked in the construction Industry, and Hotel Industry for years. I have paid taxes on every business I have been involved in. I have never cheated the IRS once in my entire life and yes my taxes paid for all that I didn't want it to go towards including abortions and since I was saved my taxes still went towards that. I put myself through Bible college and worked hard to save and yes the IRS took 40% and more because I was single with no deductions.

"I want you to come back here and tell us how spiritual it makes you feel and what a blessing it is, okay? God bless you brother, best wishes for your success!" so this is where you were going by grilling me over taxes. You know nothing:mad:

Bro. Parrish 03-15-2009 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16827)
I have read the Tax codes. last year I spent 3 months reading them so stick a sock in your accusations... I have paid taxes on every business I have been involved in. I have never cheated the IRS once in my entire life and yes my taxes paid for all that I didn't want it to go towards including abortions and since I was saved my taxes still went towards that. I put myself through Bible college and worked hard to save and yes the IRS took 40% and more because I was single with no deductions.

Wow, is that anger?
Gee you sound kind of angry over paying all those taxes brother. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 16827)
so this is where you were going by grilling me over taxes. You know nothing...

Grilling you? No, I was wishing you success!
I don't know why you're getting so upset brother, after all if you can dish it out on brother Hovind,
I figured you can take a few questions. :confused:

But then again this thread was never intended to be a platform for making PERSONAL ATTACKS regarding taxes, and the first "accusations" started with your words back in post no. 9 as I recall. That was right before you started accusing your fellow members here of "man worship." :rolleyes:

Forgive me, maybe you should calm down at this point and think about it my brother.
If I did make you feel insulted then make like a duck in water, let it roll off? :)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study