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PaulB 07-31-2009 08:43 AM

Is contraception a liberty or a sin?
 
Hi all!

I know that the Catholics have always been strictly against this one but I haven’t heard that much from our camp on it. This would probably be a good way to temp Mr Religion to throw his penny’s worth in as he seems to have a good understanding of history!

What conclusions have you guys come to on this?


God bless

PaulB

Amanda S. 07-31-2009 03:37 PM

Now Bro. Paul...Are you trying to give us yet another "law" or sin we have to worry about!? ;)

I'm with you. I am interested in Mr. Religion's take on this... :)

Blessings!

Samuel 07-31-2009 04:36 PM

Ouch; hot potato. I'll keep my opinion to myself for a time. :)

Hayseed 07-31-2009 11:07 PM

We don't have to breed church members like RC's do.

There is nothing wrong with a married couple using contraception.Goodness we are still under the curse and part of that is multiplying births,we have to actually do something to limit the number of children we have.

Not all christian couples do use contraception,they feel it is between them and God and fair enough too.

Mrs Hayseed:p

Ask Mr. Religion 08-01-2009 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulB (Post 24921)
This would probably be a good way to temp Mr Religion to throw his penny’s worth in as he seems to have a good understanding of history!

Rather than construct the argument on my own, with no doubt less clarity, I will simply agree with the cogent comments shown here:

http://www.reformed.org/webfiles/ant...n4_issue1.html

AMR

peopleoftheway 08-01-2009 05:17 AM

The heading "The 95 theses of contention against dispensationalism" at the top of the page was enough to send me to the X to close that site.
It is obvious you hold a reformed position and you have stated that from the word go, that is your liberty.
However to anyone that may visit those links particularly "babes in Christ" may I urge you to take heed as it is entrenched in Calvinism.

While everyone is at liberty to post links to reformed websites and promotion of Calvinism, I too am also at liberty to promote material against this erroneous teaching, and may I recommend Laurence Vance's "The Other side of Calvinism" that a few other dear brothers have also recommended.

Amanda S. 08-01-2009 08:26 AM

Greetings Mrs. Hayseed :)

Quote:

Mrs. Hayseed said: There is nothing wrong with a married couple using contraception.Goodness we are still under the curse and part of that is multiplying births,we have to actually do something to limit the number of children we have.

Not all christian couples do use contraception,they feel it is between them and God and fair enough too.
I was just wondering what Scripture you have to support this? Or is it a lack of Scripture on the subject that forms this conclusion?

I am not ready to post my thoughts on this matter as I am still gathering my verses. I've studied this out before but it's been awhile and unfortunately I never wrote it down :(

I do not mean this argumentatively but am just asking how did you come to this conclusion?

Be blessed! :)

George 08-01-2009 11:46 AM

Re: " Is contraception a liberty or a sin?"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway (Post 24956)
The heading "The 95 theses of contention against dispensationalism" at the top of the page was enough to send me to the X to close that site.
It is obvious you hold a reformed position and you have stated that from the word go, that is your liberty.
However to anyone that may visit those links particularly "babes in Christ" may I urge you to take heed as it is entrenched in Calvinism.

While everyone is at liberty to post links to reformed websites and promotion of Calvinism, I too am also at liberty to promote material against this erroneous teaching, and may I recommend Laurence Vance's "The Other side of Calvinism" that a few other dear brothers have also recommended.


Aloha brother Steven,

Thanks for the "tip". I've always thought that no ordinary genuine Bible believer would choose such a pedantic name as "MR. RELIGION", :confused: and now I know why.

The "intelligentsia" (scribes & scholars) have a strong tendency to lean toward Calvinism, since it is a religion of the "MIND" (the "intellect") and NOT the "HEART" and most certainly not of the Holy Scriptures as brother Vance has demonstrated in his most excellent book refuting Calvinism, and as I did in my (not so excellent) expose here on the AV1611 Bible Forums. :tsk:

All the "issues of life" proceed from out of the "heart" and NOT the "mind", and therein lays the "fatal flaw" of Calvinism.
Quote:

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


Mark 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
I'm not interested in modern day "theology"; and I have even less use for modern day "theologians, academicians, and others in theological fields."

I want to know what God has to say about Himself; His creation; mankind; His people; and the issues of life, NOT what some puffed up, egotistical, vain, and arrogant "theologian" thinks! :eek: Why do you suppose when the Lord Jesus picked His disciples that there wasn't a "scholar" or a "scribe" amongst them? Hmmm? :confused: {Just so no one's "sensitive feelings" are hurt - the foregoing comments are not directed specifically at any one person on this Forum - BUT, on the other hand, "if the shoe fits"!} :)

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

CKG 08-01-2009 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulB (Post 24921)
Hi all!

I know that the Catholics have always been strictly against this one but I haven’t heard that much from our camp on it. This would probably be a good way to temp Mr Religion to throw his penny’s worth in as he seems to have a good understanding of history!

What conclusions have you guys come to on this?


God bless

PaulB

I would say it is a matter of liberty as long as the method of birth control you use doesn't violate a clear teaching of Scripture. Abortion is a form of birth control that violates Scripture. What about the pill?

peopleoftheway 08-01-2009 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 24965)
Aloha brother Steven,

Thanks for the "tip". I've always thought that no ordinary genuine Bible believer would choose such a pedantic name as "MR. RELIGION", :confused: and now I know why.

The "intelligentsia" (scribes & scholars) have a strong tendency to lean toward Calvinism, since it is a religion of the "MIND" (the "intellect") and NOT the "HEART" and most certainly not of the Holy Scriptures as brother Vance has demonstrated in his most excellent book refuting Calvinism, and as I did in my (not so excellent) expose here on the AV1611 Bible Forums. :tsk:

All the "issues of life" proceed from out of the "heart" and NOT the "mind", and therein lays the "fatal flaw" of Calvinism.I'm not interested in modern day "theology"; and I have even less use for modern day "theologians, academicians, and others in theological fields."

I want to know what God has to say about Himself; His creation; mankind; His people; and the issues of life, NOT what some puffed up, egotistical, vain, and arrogant "theologian" thinks! :eek: Why do you suppose when the Lord Jesus picked His disciples that there wasn't a "scholar" or a "scribe" amongst them? Hmmm? :confused: {Just so no one's "sensitive feelings" are hurt - the foregoing comments are not directed specifically at any one person on this Forum - BUT, on the other hand, "if the shoe fits"!} :)

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.


Dear Brother your study on the errors of Calvinism is also a fantastic resource, that I have printed, filed and shared. And also comes highly recommended to any babes in Christ that are struggling with the subject of Calvinism.

JaeByrd 08-01-2009 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKG (Post 24966)
I would say it is a matter of liberty as long as the method of birth control you use doesn't violate a clear teaching of Scripture. Abortion is a form of birth control that violates Scripture. What about the pill?

IUD, Morning after pill, and all forms of hormonal contraception can act as an abortifacient changing the uterine lining and preventing implantation of a fertilized egg. How often the other mechanisms fail and fertilization occurs is impossible to say. Monthly, every other month, once a year?

Hayseed 08-02-2009 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanda S. (Post 24960)
Greetings Mrs. Hayseed :)



I was just wondering what Scripture you have to support this? Or is it a lack of Scripture on the subject that forms this conclusion?

I am not ready to post my thoughts on this matter as I am still gathering my verses. I've studied this out before but it's been awhile and unfortunately I never wrote it down :(

I do not mean this argumentatively but am just asking how did you come to this conclusion?

Be blessed! :)

You must have personal thoughts of your own on this matter,you seem all grown up to me.

You are not ready to post your own until you have scripture to back you up,
can you not hint at what your thoughts are on the issue of birth control?

Have you never reached a conclusion yourself at your age?

I do take some exception to the way you have taken certain words I said and made them bold,thereby adding emphasis that I myself did not do.

Gen.3:16 Unto the woman he said,I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception;

The multiplied sorrow is most noticeably seen in the recurring menstrual cycle and multiple forms of birth control are used to reduce the multiplied conceptions.

The Bible does not forbid contraception.It is not the act of contraception itself that determines whether it is right or wrong...it is the motive.

The Bible presents children as a gift from God,if a married christian couple practice birth control temporarily until they are more finanicial and spiritually secure and not because it would cramp their style to have kids, it is between them and God.
It comes down to motive.
Mrs Hayseed

Amanda S. 08-02-2009 06:38 AM

Yes, SIs Hayseed I have come to my own conclusion. And it is a matter of personal conviction, not necessarily a command for everyone.

I do agree with Sis JaeByrd above and have the resources to offer for anyone wishing to study out how the pill works and other forms of hormonal birthcontrol.

I see no reason why you should take exception to what was highlighted....? It was what I was referring to and what you said. It was only highlighted not to create an emphasis on what you said, but to draw attetion to why I asked the question I did.

I also agree with you as to the motive...That does make a big difference doesn't it?

Be blessed!

greenbear 08-02-2009 08:12 AM

JaeByrd
Quote:

all forms of hormonal contraception can act as an abortifacient changing the uterine lining and preventing implantation of a fertilized egg
I was not aware of this. If this is true, of which I have no doubt, then the magnitude of babies' lives which have been sacrificed in western culture is hundreds or thousands of times greater than I had realized. I would agree with Mrs. Hayseed that christians don't have to have many, or any children. Natural birth control methods (used in conjunction with each other), i.e. Calendar Rythmn, Basal temperature, etc. can be safe, simple and moral. I have a strong aversion to medical quackery (almost the entire medical establishment) and would never consent to putting all of the chemicals, hormones and poisons in my body that they prescribe.

greenbear 08-02-2009 09:09 AM

I would also like to say that every single one of us has come out of the world system when we were saved. It doesn't matter if we were raised by godly parents in a Christian home or by junkies and prostitutes in a crack house, or any other circumstance, the Lord leads us progressively into truth when He saves us. He does not condemn us for our sins, whether they be committed willingly or in ignorance. I believe that when the Lord sees fit to reveal to us something in our lives that is displeasing to Him it is at that point that we become responsible for that sin. In this matter, His mercy is extended not only to the mother but also to the little baby that is brought directly into his presence. I'm sure everyone is familiar with David's words:

2 Samuel 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Ezekiel 23:37 That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

I hope somebody who has studied the topic of children dying before the age of accountability going to be with the Lord would be able to add something here. In any case, I am fully persuaded that the Judge of all the earth does right, in His judgment I trust.

INFANT SALVATION
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...o/infantsa.htm

JaeByrd 08-02-2009 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 25010)
JaeByrd

I was not aware of this. If this is true, of which I have no doubt, then the magnitude of babies' lives which have been sacrificed in western culture is hundreds or thousands of times greater than I had realized.

Most people aren't. I've known pastors to suggest to a young couple to go on this or that pill till you're ready. Here is a portion from an article Brandon and I wrote listing how the various "contraceptives" work.

Quote:

Abortion: Life has already begun. You already know and have tested positive that you are pregnant.

IUD: Intrauterine device. This is a small plastic or metal device inserted into the cavity of the uterus through the vagina. Does not prevent conception from occurring. It creates a hostile environment in the uterus preventing implantation. In addition the IUD has been known to cause infection, repeated miscarriages and sterility.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration stated in an official report that its effectiveness is “in direct proportion to the quantity and quality of the inflammatory response which it engenders.” The report summarizes the various types of IUDs and the various theories of action, and states that there “is one common thread…” They all ” interfere in some manner with the implantation of the fertilized ovum in the uterine cavity.” (Second Report on IUD’s, Dec. 1978 U.S. Dept of HEW, Food and Drug Administration Document 017-012-00276-5)

RU-486: The same as an abortion, only this time without surgical procedures…It is taken after the mother misses her period and the baby is at least two weeks old. It cuts off an essential hormonal nutrient, progesterone, and the baby withers on the vine, dies and drops off. It has been tried as a once a month menses inducer, but has caused such an upset to her cycle and body rhythms, and has not prevented pregnancies, that such use has been abandoned. (Santen & Haspels, “Failure of RU-486 as a Monthly Contraceptive,” Contraception, vol. 35, no.5, May 1987, p. 433)

The Morning-After Pill: A high dosage of synthetic estrogen. This can work in one of two ways depending on where a woman is in her cycle. If a woman takes it prior to ovulation, the high level of estrogen should block that ovulation, preventing fertilization from happening. If it isn’t in time to prevent ovulation the estrogen will also change the lining of the uterus preventing a fertilized egg from implanting.

Combination Pill: Estrogen inhibits ovulation by suppressing hormones, fooling the body into thinking its already pregnant, thus an egg is not released. Because high doses of estrogen have caused medical problems, lower and lower dosages of estrogen are being used in pills today. The lower the estrogen, the more likely you are to have breakthrough ovulation. Progesterone inhibits ovulation, thickens cervical mucus impeding the travel of sperm to the uterus. If this were the only way the pill worked it would indeed be a contraceptive and not an abortifacient. But, the third way it works is changing the uterine lining so implantation of the fertilized egg into the endometrium does not occur.

“In a natural cycle, the uterus lining thickens under the influence of estrogen during the first part of the cycle, and then matures under the influence of both progesterone and estrogen after ovulation. This development sequence is not possible during a pill cycle because both progestin and estrogen are present throughout the cycle. EVEN IF OVULATION AND CONCEPTION DID OCCUR, SUCCESSFUL IMPLANTATION WOULD BE UNLIKELY” (Felicia Stewart, M.D.;Felicia Guest; Gary Stewart, M.D. and Robert Hatcher, M.D..; My Body, My Health, Consumers Union, pgs. 169,170).

Mini-Pill: Contains progesterone only. Inhibits ovulation, thickens cervical mucus, changes the lining of the uterus so that implantation does not happen should conception occur.

According to “Maternity & Gynecologic Care: The Nurse and the Family” by Irene M. Bobak, (RN,MS,PhD, FAAN, Professor Emerita, San Francisco State University), and Margaret Duncan Jensen, (RN,MS, Professor Emerita, San Jose State University: “Oral progestins. The mini-pill of 0.5 mg or less of a progestational agent daily presumably impairs fertility. Ovulation may occur. Progestational impact on cervical mucus decreases sperm penetration and alters endometrial maturation to discourage implantation should conception occur. (Fifth ed., published by Mosby, 1993, page 1313.)

Depo-Provera: Injectable form of Progestin taken every 3 months. (see Mini-Pill)

Nor-plant: Progestin Implant can be left in up to 5 years. (see Mini-Pill)

It is impossible to tell or say how often which mechanism works in any given cycle. Or how many times breakthrough ovulation occurs, conception takes place, and implantation is stopped. The risks are higher the lower the estrogen dose or with the progesterone only forms.

Luke 08-02-2009 04:03 PM

It's hardly a hard case. There is no grounds in the Bible for having child after child, unless you are Adam or Noah (Not even Abraham had many). I'm quite cynical at the moment of the whole Independent Baptist movement, after being hurt very deeply from being in it. But the women that pop out a baby every 9 months and think that everyone else should be doing it and elevate themselves as spiritual above others just tick me off. If you actually WANT a baby every 9 months and can SUPPORT it, go for it. But I don't think it's right to do just because you think you are "replenishing the earth", and you've taken a command given to Adam and Noah and applying it to yourself.

Anyway, my wife and I want kids but can't really afford to have children yet. Some people say "Just trust God" and we do, and because we trust God we are using contraception (none of the above ones though), because we trust that God is supplying our needs right now, and He will let us know when the time is right for us to have children. I have many problems of my own that I need to deal with before we bring a child into this world.

greenbear 08-02-2009 05:29 PM

I had a handle on the false teacher thing, but I had no idea how like Israel at the time of Christ the "church" is today. Thank God for christians who share the truth about things like "The Pill" as well as many other lies of the world.

But God help "christian" hypocrites. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

JaeByrd 08-02-2009 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 25021)
But the women that pop out a baby every 9 months and think that everyone else should be doing it and elevate themselves as spiritual above others just tick me off.

I have an issue in regards to that in that some go so far as to encourage getting pregnant again by weaning early. In the 1-3 month old range switching them over to formula. Leaving things in God's hands/timing/control is one thing, but purposely weaning early so you can get pregnant 3-6 months earlier than you would having a normal nursing relationship is stacking the deck in favor of more pregnancies/larger families in my opinion. Not to mention robbing your already born child of what God intended for nourishment and immunities.

In a natural, non scheduled, breastfeeding relationship fertility returns in the 3-9 month range. Depending on how much solids a baby starts to eat and how much nursing is continued. Fertility returns in the 6th or 7th month on average and is diminished until full weaning. (1-2 years is the medically recommended length of time and many of the benefits aren't seen until a full 6 months minimum of nursing.) Until fully weaned some cycles don't even make enough hormones to release an egg. By weaning in the 1-3 month time, before you are even introducing baby food, you have to substitute an artificial milk. If they full wean that early or don't even bother with breastfeeding fertility can return in a cycle or two and they can average one child a year.

Granted the variables change from each couple and some can naturally conceive that early even while nursing, but the very famous quiver full family does this as does several others I've seen. Most of those that really do just leave it to as it happens space out more like 18-24 months between babies not 9-12 months. Some even longer or not at all.

Hayseed 08-02-2009 10:45 PM

I agree with Luke,if couples wish to pop babies out every nine months,go for it.
Others for their own personal reasons who are choosing to wait until the time is right for them as a couple,go for it too.

Neither group should have to explain themselves.

I used to get ABOVE RUBIES a magazine from our church and it was a guilt trip without packing any bags.Luggage loads of true stories of mother's and their ten kids,baking bread and homeschooling,growing vegetables etc...but!the thing is the slant was,"YOU SHOULD BE BEARING KIDS TOO,BAKING BREAD,etc or your'e not a ruby woman.

Iam a grandmother,past child bearing but had thirteen pregnancies myself with only three live sons and an adopted daughter and I would never give that magazine or my 2cents worth to my daughters-in-law that my son's married,or lay any burden on any of my married children and their spouses about an out of bounds Area to me in their married lives.They have come to me and talked to me and I have just hugged them and left it all to God,and I feel very blessed they can come to me and tell me their hopes and dreams about having children oneday.I want more grandchildren as my two have started school,I will not hurry my daughters-in-law up or lay an ugly burden on them that they are sinning for using contraception..I will leave my nose out of their business.

People are too free with what other's "should" or shouldn't be doing.

God Himself must have planned limited births for Eve before the Fall,since after the fall he would increase her conceptions as part of the curse.

Amanda S. 08-03-2009 01:23 PM

Quote:

Bro. Paul said: What conclusions have you guys come to on this?
Quote:

Sis. Hayseed said:People are too free with what other's "should" or shouldn't be doing.

The reason this is being discussed isn't because we want to tell others what to do, but because Bro. Paul asked what conclusions we had come to. But for any of us to come down with a hard and fast rule, you are right, that would be wrong.

I again will state that I am in 100% agreement with what Sis. Jaebyrd has to say. If one believes that conception begins at fertilization hormonal birth control is in my opinion wrong. But as I've said before in another thread that I think God gives grace in ignorance of this fact...But if I was asked by anyone on this subject I would also be wrong to not inform them of the scientific fact of how hormonal birth control works. After that, it is in their hands and not my place to judge.

Be blessed!

Hayseed 08-03-2009 02:23 PM

What is an effective birth control though,apart from abstinence?

I have found that the use of condoms can fail,(I got a blessing and nappies from condom use.)

My daughter and her hubby used condomes,spermicidal jelly and the I.U.D and tragically the baby conceived attached to the follopian tube.My daughter's life was in danger and she had two little girls and a husband.She couldn't be operated on and so my husband and I sat with her while she was put on chemotherapy at a friends house close to the hospital.I can't describe what we went through watching this and just praying for the Lord to receive our grandchild.She had to be sterilised permanently after this.(Another bone of contention among christians.)

Her second child had been conceived while she was on the pill.

Eight months ago our middle son and his wife were so happy expecting their first baby,and at nearly four months she miscarried.They have been trying for another baby and so far it is not happening for them.They were previously using the pill.

I don't know what the answer is,to what is acceptable..nothing is 100% but whatever is the preferred method couples use it needs to be the most effective with what is available.

I just know it is very personal and it can be that each method has it's sadness's attached.
I don't have an answer in a fallen world for birth control apart from liberty.

Wishy washy I know but it's hard to be a young couple having to manage that very personal area of your lives,without sinning in some way if a conception happens.

The topic is "Contraception a liberty or sin?"

It is not asking what methods are used,or what the failure rate is leading to a conception taking place...just,liberty or sin?
From that question alone as it is worded I would have to say liberty because no matter what methods we use..nasty experiences can happen.

Very difficult for folk.

Mrs Hayseed:p

Amanda S. 08-03-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

It is not asking what methods are used,or what the failure rate is leading to a conception taking place...just,liberty or sin?
From that question alone as it is worded I would have to say liberty because no matter what methods we use..nasty experiences can happen.

Very difficult for folk.

Mrs Hayseed
Sister great point...The question was an either/or and it's clearly not.

However, one has to have a place to start and it is relatively easy to rule out the pill and other hormonal birth control for the average couple seeking advice. You bring up a good exceptions though. I would not dare to meddle in a serious case of the health of the mother. Obviously the mother's health is first priority.

I wrote this on my blog awhile back. Please consider:

Quote:

Did you know that your local drugstore could be selling Plan B i.e. the morning after pill? Both our CVS and Wal-Greens sells this drug. Each pharmacy can choose whether to offer it or not.

As if it mattered, I discovered yesterday that the only requirement to be able to purchase Plan B is that you’re 18 or older. A prescription is not even needed. According to the website you can discreetly order using a printable card that you can just hand over to the pharmacist without ever saying a word.

Notice that the website admits this Plan B works in just the same way as the conventional hormonal birth control options such as “the pill.” Most Christians wouldn’t dream of purchasing a “morning-after-pill” but have no qualms taking the birth-control pill. Yet they both work in the very same way. The only difference I suppose would be with one you are deliberately trying to end a possible pregnancy, the other you would be hoping that the only way you were preventing a pregnancy is that you did not ovulate that month.

I have not met many Christians that when asked “When does life begin?” would say, “After fertilization when the ovum baby has attached to the uterus.” They almost ALWAYS say “Life begins at conception (fertilization).” In fact that is THE most common Pro-Life position.

If that is the case we should prayerfully consider these things and take responsibility for our actions. We should also make these things known to other Christians who may not know. For years we took “the pill” trusting our Doctors that it was a safe method. Coming off the pill was not an easy decision to make as we knew there would be more children and at the time that was not easy to accept, but I believe that if the Lord is working and dealing with you and your husband He will give you the grace and peace you need to do what is right.

Just some scattered thoughts to give you something to think about this Thursday.

If you would like to have a great booklet to hand out on this Randy Alcorn has a great booklet discussing the subject in depth “Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortion”

Interestingly our “Christian” President G. W. Bush supports the “Morning After Pill” (see here) but so does Hillary Clinton? Go figure…

Hayseed 08-03-2009 04:10 PM

"We should also make these things known to other christians who may not know."
There's the rub for me Amanda.
I have learnt alot on this thread that I did not know previously and I will keep it under my hat.

For me personally,I just can't do that,make these things known to other christians who may not know.

I see my son's happy in their marriages and just think their wives are God's gifts to my sons,as is my daughter's hubby to her...they don't need me to come along and tell them any of this that I have learnt here.

God is blessing them in so many areas of their lives as married couples and they have other young couples as friends that they confide in about many areas of their lives.We have been blessed by quite a few young marrieds in our church in recent years and some of those couples are now bringing their first borns to church.They are now back using their preferred method of contraception and I just think it would not be wisdom to tell them what I have learnt here.
My thoughts entirely,others may feel free to think differently.
Mrs Hayseed:p

Hayseed 08-03-2009 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanda S. (Post 25054)
The reason this is being discussed isn't because we want to tell others what to do, but because Bro. Paul asked what conclusions we had come to. But for any of us to come down with a hard and fast rule, you are right, that would be wrong.

I do agree with what you are saying here Amanda.That is the wisdom Iam talking about.

Mrs Hayseed


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