VR, I believe "OP" stands for "original poster."

Steve54, once you get SwordSearcher (eventually.....), you'll probably not go back to E-Sword. :)

You see, kittn, I knew that all along. I was feigning ignorance in an attempt to make Steve feel at home. He was being swamped with Screeds, Manifestos, and Innuendoes, so I was merely attempting to show him that some of us are muddled and befuddled: bewitched, bothered, and bewildered, as St. Sinatra would say.....

Did you really think I was unaware of the meaning of OP? Ha ha! Not I; not wily old Vendetta....

The only part of the "Perseverence of the Saints" doctrine that I agree with is that we are eternally secure. I can't agree with any more of it, since it states that God keeps those who are saved, that only those elected by God are saved, and that if someone does fall away or denounce the faith, they were never truely saved, thus not one of the elect. :doh:

I am going to shock and maybe infuriate some people here today, If so I am sorry, but I do not regret what I say.
God met me in 1992 in a charismatic church, and saved me. At that time I was not even looking for the Lord, But He being true to Himself, found me and saved me. I believe that God had saved me at this point (it is His salvation, and not mine). But being in a charismatic church at the time, the Bible (God's Word) was secondary, experience was primary. Needless to say, in the couple of years that followed, I slid back into my old ways.
God, being faithful, started putting people in the way that knew the truth. And I started to see the error I was living in.
Even though the Holy Spirit was living in me, I had no idea who He was. And when I started to read the Sciptures, and found out who He is, I yielded myself to Him. Wow the things that started to happen.
What I am trying to say, is, do not knock someone on what is perceived as a particular doctrine, God may be using that person to move one of his children to the next level of relationship to Him.
I was in a charismatic church, God being faithful showed me the error of what I was in, moved me to a non-denominational church for a while (for a growth period), to a Independant Baptist church for awhile, and now I am in a church that preaches expository from the Word of God.
The point is, do not beat on what people now know. God will bring His people to the point where they know Him and want to serve Him.

Not shocking at all. Rather astute, actually. If we want to ignore and be done with the folks who don't look, sound, smell, feel, or taste like a "Christian" or "follower" or whatever, we will eliminate some pretty hefty names in history, beginning with major ones right out of our own Bible. If I have learned anything in trying to be what Jesus wants me to be (Matthew 5-7), it is that trying to outguess, outsmart, and outmaneuver God is THE losing proposition. In keeping with the painfully true constant, that mankind can mess up a home run, we ought to let God do what He does and stay out of His way.

Blessings...:amen:

Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ. Follow after what Christ is trying to teach, He is the final authority.

Aloha brother Scott,

I'm not "shocked" or "infuriated". I've "been there, and done that". Back in the mid 1960's (being a fairly new Christian) I (with my wife & children) attended an Assembly of God church for a couple of years. There was a sweet older brother in Christ (brother Fukushima) who attended and who was dying from Cancer, who took me aside and taught me about "Dispensationalism" for several months in his home (it was the first time I had ever heard of it).

Soon after he was done with his lessons he advised me to leave the church that I was attending and seek out something more "Scriptural". I left shortly thereafter, when the pastor of the church put his King James Bible on the floor of the church building and STOOD ON IT, and proclaimed: "I'm STANDING on the promises of God"! :mad: Needless to say - I "got out of Dodge pronto"! :eek: Brother Fukushima died shortly thereafter, and I am sure that he is home with our Lord.

The point is, that we have to be careful judging someone by what church he attends. (Brother Fukushima lived behind the church building and had no means of transportation, and so, he did what he could - something that no other pastor, assistant pastor, or deacon of the various churches that I had attended since I got saved in October, 1958 had done. He taught me HOW to "rightly divide the word of God".)

However, there are times that we must "contend for the faith" [Jude 1:3], because our (all Christians - not just pastors, etc.) ministry is not only made up of "Reconciliation" & "Preaching" - We must also Warn, Admonish, Reprove, and Rebuke at the appropriate time and place. This takes more than just "knowledge", it also takes "discernment", "understanding", and "wisdom".

One of the hardest parts of my Christian walk for the past 50 years is to know when and where, and to whom I should warn, or admonish, or reprove, or rebuke. These are all a part of "the whole counsel of God" that we are supposed to be defending and upholding.

I take your point seriously though. We must be careful that we don't become like the Pharisees of old; carelessly judging, instead of "judging righteous judgment".

Like pastors I know have said, God uses people that Baptists would never consider. Bro. Ron Ralph preaches a message called "Is God in Your Box?" and in it he talks about a church God set him up as pastor over within months of getting saved; the deacon's wife taught the adult Sunday School class, and though that is unbiblical in the extreme, God still used it to teach Bro. Ralph a whole lot of stuff.

Just because we wouldn't use someone doesn't mean God can't or won't. I just try to remember that God's using ME, so there's no way I can point a finger at God's servants!

I will, and will not hesitate for a second to point out error. If we preach His Word, it will not return void. I have been there and have seen it, and participated in it.
So I will call out error. No matter who and where it comes from.

:spy: Well if it took you four years to figure out "cut and paste" on the puter, you just never know, dear brother! :sorry:

I was just passing along my new-found knowledge........:D