Why didn't you just email the man in the first place!
I think you knew exactly the reaction you would get.

Let me answer this one for you

Your 65 odd posts, and yes I read them all last night, they are what betrays you, in a few of them you were freesundayschoollessons cheerleader and we all know the contention he brought. The words that you have written, and may I add that you have used a minimal amount of "scripture" in your posts on this forum clearly show us your position, so please, don't try to appear all hurt:( and put out of place when a bible believer rebukes you. I am ashamed that any man who calls himself a brother in Christ does not believe God in all his Wisdom and Might has not left us his WORD in one place to be read, studied and expounded ( By those with no formal education nor qualifications) and yet believes he has left his word in scattered places, in subtracted contradicting versions, in philosophy leavened texts, in Roman Catholic manuscripts, in gender-neutral changes, in versions that "take away" his word, versions that "add to" his word and thinks that among all this mess and confusion God is the Author. God Forbid!

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

What gets to me more, is that you are a young Pastor, if you were going to the greek, multiple versions etc and edifying only yourself and your scholarly theologian brethren then I have no problem with your own puffed up against each other attitude, but to even think you are trying to edify young men and women with "the Greek" telling them that what they read dosent really mean what it says "how they read it" but they must add some mysterious greek meaning for God to show them the real truth of his word or even worse, rely on someone who "knows the greek" to show them!
I have seen so many younger christians become apostate because of the confusion within churches today, never mind confusing them more with added IQ and "the Greek"

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
JESUS
With such an amazing few verses of scripture, can you really stand by idly while "scholars" and "theologians" have REMOVED the name God exalted above every other name! up to 40 times in modern versions in some cases? And butchered Philippians 2:6 to attack the Godhead.
I guess you can.:boxing:

Re: " Sam Gipp's degree"
 

greektim,

Your "doctrinal position" is:

"I am extremely against the KJV only view." - If that is true, then WHY are you here? That's not a complicated question. WHY does a person (a "pastor") join a AV1611 Bible Forum, knowing full well what most of us believe? Curiosity? If it was just curiosity you could have come and "browsed around" and discovered what we believe. However you "JOINED" an AV1611 Bible Forum, and there's the rub!

I would never "JOIN" an anti-King James Bible Forum, so WHY do you "JOIN" an AV1611 Bible Forum - knowing in advance that most of us on the Forum hold a "doctrinal position" that you are "extremely against"???

You say I don't know you - I've dealt with dozens of young men just like yourself over the last 40 years. The fact that you are willing to "join" a Forum with people with whom you are "extremely against" speaks volumes about your "CHARACTER"; the name that you chose to identify yourself by on an AV1611 Bible Forum speaks volumes about WHAT you are here for (i.e. debate, division, & confusion); an examination of your Posts tells us that you are NOT a genuine Bible believer because No.1 you don't have any idea WHAT a Holy Bible is (ONE BOOK that you can hold in your hands); and No. 2 you don't even know WHERE you can find a Holy Bible (a Book that you can hold in your hands - not several "books" or a bunch of manuscripts); and lastly a brief look at your blog reveals that you recommend some strong ANTI-King James Bible people, one of which ("freesundayschoollessons") was BANNED" from this Forum for being a "trouble maker". In addition, the "TITLE" ("Debating Theological Issues") of your blog reveals a lack of spiritual understanding. Don't you know that "debating" is a serious sin? [Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,] WHY would a "pastor" name his blog "Debating Theological Issues" unless he was ignorant of the fact that "DEBATE" is a serious sin? Hmmm?

I may not know you - but I can tell you this much: I know enough about you - to not want to have anything to do with you, your friends, or your blog, or any Forums that you would recommend. Supposedly, you have been called to preach "the word", but the sad fact is you don't have any regard for the Holy words within the King James Bible, because, according to you and your "friends" IT'S JUST A TRANSLATION - NOT GOD'S WORD!

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I don't go on to your "blog" or your friends blogs and/or Forums and "stir up trouble" - so, again - WHY do you "JOIN" with us and "stir up trouble" here? I have been circumspect in avoiding "Joining" your blog or your friends blogs/Forums in order to AVOID stirring up trouble on them - WHY do people like yourself, "solabiblia", ""freesundayschoollessons", and numerous other Bible deniers come here and always "stir up trouble", and then play the "innocent offended party" when people like myself take you to task? :eek:

We didn't invite you here - you came here and "JOINED" with us on your own volition - If you don't "like it" here, you can leave under the same conditions. However, if you choose to stay, I can tell you this much: you and "solabiblia" are disingenuous people, and I for one, am under no obligation to treat you like I do the rest of the genuine Bible believers here. :(

Thanks for reminding me of the passage in Romans. I guess it wasn't enough that the Lord was leading me to 1 Timothy 1:5-6.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain
jangling;

It is so tempting sometimes to engage these folks, which I do sometimes elsewhere. I think I'm in a discussion with someone who wants to understand my position on the King James Bible. Apparently, for the most part, that's just not the case. The discussions are always fruitless. They rarely concede I'm right on anything. They will not recognize differences of substance and content between the King James Bible and the modern versions. If they are unable, their eyes are blinded. If they are unwilling, they are deceitful.

Not one of them cares where Sam Gipp received his degree, unless it gives them ammunition to malign his character and further disparage our view of the King James Bible. The only interest in his degree seems to be to turn people away from his teaching.

I'm sorry to have to agree with you, George. You are right about them being here to stir up trouble. Your words are also a reminder to me to not be like that back, but mark them and avoid them. They say they are our brothers in Christ, and I want to believe them, but Scripture is clear that in what they're doing, they are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. The small benefit I've received from trying to contend with them has been far outweighed by the frustration gained and time wasted. How sad it has to be like that.

This is why noone is answering you. You are going to throw a net over the man based on where his education came from.

Here is the best answer you'll get

Gipp got his degree from the Aliens. The ones with blue blood.

EDIT: Having said that, and after reading what George said, as a Pastor, don't you have better things to do, such as feeding your flock? Perhaps give some of them a call and see how they are doing. Forget about Gipp and Ruckman. I can tell you they don't give a thought for you, or even know who you are. If you are trying to make a name for yourself amongst the "popular crowd" then this is an easy way to do it, but what will you have achieved. Nothing but damaging people's faith in a book. Go for it....

Greektim

I personally do not know where Sam Gipp got his degree. Until I came to this forum, I had not even heard of Sam Gipp that I remember. I have heard of Peter Ruckman, but I know very little of him as well.

To me, it doesn't matter where a person got their education. Some of the dumbest people I have ever known have titles from big universities, and some of the wisest people I have known have very little formal education. Look at the worldwide financial mess that is happening right now. Who do you think is running all these corporations into the ground, the highly educated elite, or the simple common man?

I think you know the answer. Just because you have a degree does not mean you are intelligent.

You said in one post that you would appreciate helpful advice to your ministry. I have some advice. Do not be a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God doesn't care where Sam Gipp got his degree, only that he fears God and works righteousness.

1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

It is not folks with titles you should be worried about Greektim, it is simple believers. For it is these that God has chosen to confound the wise.

Hello GreekTim,

I was very moved by your post at your blog....."How I Dealt With Grief." I extend my sincere sympathies. Perhaps your experience has prepared you for enduring other kinds of grief.....such as what you are experiencing here on this forum for asking a simple question....yet you are responding with amazing grace.

Blessings and shalom,

Tandi

Re: "Sam Gipp's degree"
 

Tandi,

I will ask you the same question I asked "greektim" and "solabiblia" - WHY are you here? If we are such a bunch of intolerant bigots - WHY do you bother staying here? Quite often you end up supporting Bible deniers - WHY don't you all get together and start your own blog or Forum where you can bad-mouth us all you want without getting jumped for being unscriptural or out of order? :confused:

You profess that you are a King James Bible believer, BUT your Posts (i.e. the comments within them) continually reveal that you are nothing of the sort! :(

If you don't like us; and if you "think" that we are a bunch of "meanies"; and that we treat others unfairly and give them "grief" :confused:; WHY do you continue putting up with us? If we are as "mean" and as "cruel" as you "think" we are, why not move on to greener pastures, where the "brethren" are always sweet, and kind, and (of course) "non-judgmental" - with the exception of despising the Holy word of God found within the pages of the King James Bible?

Whether you like to hear it or not - your Posts reveal that (just like "greektim" & "solabilia") you have NO FINAL AUTHORITY (other than your personal "opinions") when it comes to faith and practice. And do you know what? I could care less! :( I'm NOT your father or your husband - I have no "authority" over you whatsoever, BUT when you cross my Bible I am going to treat you just the same as I do all Bible deniers.

You have entered "the arena" (Bible doctrine) where real men dwell and abide; and you know what they say: "If you can't stand the heat, you'd better get out of the kitchen". :rolleyes:

This Forum is NOT the "Girl Scouts" or the "Camp Fire Girls", and while we do not object to women participating, we are not going to "feminize" our conduct to suit you or any other member who MAY have a Politically Correct (Humanistic) Philosophy or outlook on WHAT we say, or HOW we say it.

Perhaps you haven't met many "real" men (with the "feminization" of American men there aren't many of us left ;)). But the fact is: for 48 years my wife hasn't told me WHAT to say, or HOW to say it, and you can rest assured that I am not going to let you or any "feminized" Christian man tell me what to say either! :mad:

If you decide to stay, you'd better get used to it. After 69 years I sure ain't going to change to suit some woman (who I don't know), who has so little spiritual discernment, that she is a "Judaizer" and doesn't even know it! :eek:

Re: "Sam Gipp's degree"
 

Aloha brother Winman,

You may be surprised by what I am going to say - but I do not know Sam Gipp and have never read any of his books. I do know that he came to the Island of Kauai and preached a couple of times and I didn't go to hear him because the church that brought him over is a totalitarian dictatorship (which doesn't speak well about WHO brother Gipp chooses to associate with.)

My whole point in this "donnybrook" is I really don't care WHERE a man has gone to "SCHOOL" or whether he has a "DEGREE" or not!

Peter James, John, and many of the other Apostles NEVER went to SCHOOL and the Lord Jesus Christ "picked" them (I suspect that one of the reasons for choosing them was the fact that they HADN'T GONE TO SCHOOL and in turn had never been "brain-washed" by a bunch of Pharisaical Apostate "Professors"), and you know what? They did just fine! :)

Apollos was "mighty in the scriptures" and yet had to be "straightened-out" by a couple of ordinary Christians who sewed tents (Priscilla & Aquila). And the Apostle Paul (who had learned from the top "PhD" of his time {Gamaliel} counted his "DEGREES" as "DUNG"! I refuse to "translate" THAT in the "vernacular" so that all those with "degrees" in the Greek & Hebrew can understand it! :rolleyes:)

The fact is, many of these people with "degrees", or those people who place "significance" in a man with a "degree", are "puffed-up" intellectual elitists, who look down their noses upon all of the "unwashed masses" (you & me) as a bunch of "ignoramuses".

I've had my "fill" of them for over 40 years, and I refuse to be "cowed" by them or "impressed" with them! :mad: They are nothing but a bunch of Bible denying apostates living off of ignorant Christians who "think" that because they (the Bible deniers) have a "degree" - THEY MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Genuine Bible believers must not "give place" to these people - "NO, NOT FOR AN HOUR" [Galatians 2:5] If we fail to confront them and "contend for the faith" - we will be failing in our responsibility to WARN the brethren and our DUTY to "admonish", "reprove", or "rebuke" the "GAINSAYERS"!

When dealing with "gainsayers" & "apostates" we are not required to be polite and "sweet". These people are out to spread their perverse "LEAVEN" and they have no principles! They will not hesitate to "join" with us and through guile and subtlety they will try to undermine our faith in God's Holy word. I for one, refuse to stand by and do nothing about that.

We are in a WAR brother, and church history has demonstrated over and over again that the enemy that we must beware of is WITHIN our ranks! The Apostle Paul WARNED us about this [Acts 20:17-32] and every church that ever was in existence from the Apostle's time up to the early 1900's has IGNORED that WARNING and has fallen into APOSTASY! There have been NO EXCEPTIONS!

I will not cease to WARN the brethren - whether they like me or not; whether think that I am out of order or not; and whether they believe that I am just a crotchety old man or not! Now is not the time to let down our guard:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

This is what I told you Greektim, no profit at all. You have just email Sam Gipp, he's the one who can rightfully answer you. I just don't know if you have quoted a single verse of the Bible in your post/ question and I guessed there's no actually a "Theological Issues" you presented. As a young pastor, I respect you but try to remember this admonition from Paul to young pastor Timothy:
1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Another way to learn about Bro. Gipp is to read some of his articles,
here is a list of those on his website:
http://samgipp.com/essays/

I was being polite by saying "seem to be." You did more than just hint at a comparison. You made a pretty strong comparison. You put Sam Gipp in the company of the Apostles and Christ. The blasphemy was not mine.

No one doubts that you are a KJO.

Fine. You don't care. Greektim did care, so he asked. To advance the conversation, all you had to do is offer an answer. Instead, you chose to attack the question, and then the questioner. Not Christ-like behavior.

Actually, you surmised that he was fishing, and you jumped the gun.

Last I knew, this is a public forum. If you want a private forum, there are ways to do that. You have your motives for being here, I have mine.

I like it here. Is that OK?

I use the KJV in my private devotions (Cambridge, by the way). I teach from the KJV every Sunday to a class of about 50 scholars. I have the KJV on my computer and my PDA for quick reference. I have memorized somewhere around 50 chapters of the KJV. I have been going to churches that use the KJV since I was one week old. I probably would think long and hard before attending a church that did not use the KJV. I love it, cherish it, quote it, and live by it.

What more do you want? Do you have no room in your tent for someone who sees the hand of God in the translation and dissemination of the KJV and prefers it above other texts? Do I have to chant "Four legs good, Two legs bad" at all the right times in order to please you? Have you ever heard of legalism? How long since you read Galatians? Or Romans 14?

Have you ever stopped for a minute to reflect on whether all this shrill rhetoric is necessary? Have you noticed how so many on this board seem to be so eager to establish his or her KJO credentials? Just about every other post has the flavor of "Shoot, that's nothing, I would crawl from here to Cambridge on ground glass for the KJV!"

I'm just suggesting that you reflect a bit instead of reacting.

I've met Gipp and had breakfast with him. He was a gentleman and a scholar.

Brother George, you might be interested and surprised that I too hold a degree.

It was the night on the street that my wife took our Scripture boards, which were posters of Bible verses tacked to thin pieces of wood, and with some string tied them together and wore them as sandwich advertising boards. She was hit with a rock, the board saved her from any injury. That night also I was talking to some cultists from Herbert W. Armstrong's scam when I was hit with a plastic bag filled with urine, I stepped out of the puddle and kept talking till I was finished answering their questions about the KJV, one scoffed, one said he wanted more info, and dripping urine I led him to the tract table and gave him some booklets.

The scoffer asked me where I got my theology degree, I told him I got an Orderly Degree In Theology here on Fifth Street. He sneeringly asked what an Orderly of Theology did, I said Orderlies clean up the mess the doctors make.

Grace and peace brother.

Tony Bones Oth

Tim, I think the somewhat negative response you got is because that in many instances when a man makes controversial stands, as does Dr. Gipp on the KJV, it is the messenger attacked and not the message and several people have been attacked in their affiliation with Dr. Ruckman's school due to the fact that I THINK Dr. Ruckman's school is not accredited by the state of Florida, due to secular standards the states imposes that many Christian schools reject, particularly PBI's stand on Roman Catholicism. Then it breaks down into an argument of not the issue(the KJV) but My Degree Vs. Your Degree.

Grace and peace

Tony

Pr*13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Pr*17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

That is wonderful stuff, you teach scholars from it, you have it on your computer, you have memorized 50 chapters, fantastic, you love it, cherish it, quote it and live by it. But Do you live by it, do you hold it as the infallible innerant word of God, or do you simply "prefer" it to other versions?

Whats with the nonsense you posted here...
Brother George simply stated, that none of the apostles required a "degree" to teach or preach, nowhere did he compare Sam Gipp to the status of apostle, he plainly said that a man does NOT require a degree or doctorate to preach or teach the word of God and was plainly using the unlearned disciples of The Lord Jesus Christ as an example(Not comparing Sam Gipp), just as Luke did.

Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

No need to surmise when you read "all" of his posts. And see where he is coming from on HIS webspace. His position on the Bible version issue stands out like a sore thumb.

Last of all, your unprofitable posting on this forum has yet to bear any "scripture" When anyone is rebuked of their intentions (discernment which you appear to lack), their "oh so clear" intentions, it is done with scripture to back it up. So back to my question which one of your 15 posts contains Holy Scripture? (Considering this is a Bible Believing Forum) and do you simply "prefer" the KJB over the rest of the modern, emergent church apostate trash?

I will tell you one thing we must all stand before the Judgment seat of Christ, but I don't want to say to my Lord and Saviour "I couldn't find it" when he asks me why I didn't keep his word that he has preserved in one place, in one book, in one promise.

FINALLY don't start spouting of about "legalism" are you a friend of Jordan?
That was his favorite hand me down.

if there was ever a time more suited for this scripture below than its first application to Timothy, it is for today, the times we live in, the state of the church, its apostate nature and it weakened carnal Christian who has no idea they are in a war, has no idea "where" God has preserved his word, has no idea how to handle "rebuke", Pastors that have the attitude "sure, lets just let them keep making the mistakes, eventually they will learn, wont they?"
rather than chastising them with SCRIPTURE, they are feeding them on "the Greek" diminishing their belief in one Bible, diminishing their own belief in themselves in their knowledge of Gods word, thinking they must go to the Greek to be enlightened and edified. Its all phoney, its all a sham, its all a shame.


2 Timothy 4:1-8 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

:amen:

Hello George,

Why am I here? I like to think it is because the LORD led me here. Don't worry, I can stand the heat* of insults and rejection from professing believers, whether Messianic, Baptist, or any of the 39 flavors of Christianity. I am quite used to it. Gives me lots of practice in remembering Jesus' words in the Sermon on the Mount.

Why do I stay? I am an ugly duckling looking for the swan pond and not finding it. So I swim wherever I can find some water.....until banished. It won't be the first time, if that were to happen. First two were Messianic forums. My comments have also been deleted from a couple of prominent Messianic blogs for being controversial I guess. So much for being a Judaizer. I don't seem to fit in anywhere. My friend and I started a forum and invited everyone to participate, whatever their viewpoints, but after a year, not much conversation there. Not sure why. If anyone here would like to "sharpen iron" you are welcome at:

http://torahtimes.org/forum/


* I can't stand the heat of the literal kitchen though....I am more of a Mary than a Martha. :)

I will reprint my introduction from my very first post to remind everyone of why I came here. If I am unqualified to fellowship here, just let me know.

Shalom,

Tandi

Tandi,

I know this is going to fall on deaf ears, but you need to dump the torah/hebreaic/sabbath stuff, and move from being a "fan" of the KJV to a believer in it. If you aren't willing to put yourself into subjection to a final authority that you can get your hands on (no "running to the Greek and Hebrew" when it doesn't suit you), you will be "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

I can't imagine anyone will make much progress here with you if you are simply unwilling to subject yourself to an authority external to your own self.

I am reminded of a situation that happens in my neighborhood occasionally. A neighbor has several dogs in his fenced yard that take umbrage when I walk my dog down the street past their yard. They are barking and howling and running back and forth behind the fence, letting my dog know just how much they would like to bite her. Every so often in their frenzy, they bump into each other and then start fighting and jumping on each other instead of barking at my dog! Hmmm.

Both, actually.

Who are the Dogs behind the fence Brother and who is your dog?

My (grand)dog is Chevy. The others are Sweet Pea, Damon, and Lady Day. As far as any possible metaphorical application, I will leave that to the imaginations of the readers. :)

Funny that Brother, the Lord Jesus Christ as a shepherd also has 2 sheepdogs, they bark I am sure whenever a wolf lurks ever close to his Flock, waiting, appearing harmless in sheeps clothing, waiting, until they get close enough, then they strike trying to scatter the flock or devour the stray sheep that has wandered far from the rest.

Psalms 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

The Lord is my Shepherd, and His two sheepdogs?.... well Goodness and Mercy of course

Psalms 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Bro George said:

Well, I say Aloha to you too!

I have never been to Hawaii, but my younger brother is married to a Hawaiian girl, he was stationed at Scofield Barracks in the Army back in the late 70's.

But that's as close as I get. :)

But anyway, none of my comments were directed at you, they were meant for Greektim. I enjoy your posts very much and learn a lot from them. As you said in your post, a degree means nothing when it comes to the Word of God. The apostles were not scholars, they were fishermen, and publicans, common men. And this is who the Lord Jesus chose.

These Bible correctors don't get it. The Bible is not intended to be an intellectual study, although a person could study it for 10 lifetimes and never completely know it. The Bible is God's Word to all men, so we can find eternal life through the Lord Jesus and learn how to walk in his steps.

I really have a difficult time believeing that anyone who so doubts the Word of God is even saved. Perhaps they are, but you would never know it by their behaviour. Instead of edifying believers, they seem to want to make true believers doubt. Good luck with that.

These folks are proud plain and simple. Their whole motive is to try to impress people with their scholarship. But they completely lack faith which without a man cannot please God.

I am not impressed by anybody who does not believe God.

Prov 10:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

What these folks need is some good old fashioned fear of the LORD.

Quite right Brother Winman

What some on this forum need to realise when they make statements like "what you say isn't very Christlike" or "your behavior isn't very Christlike"
They need to remember that the Lord Jesus Christ got angry, boy he got so angry at hypocrites that made a mockery of the temple (as I am sure that he gets angry seated at the right hand of the Father for the mockery made of his word in this world) he literally threw tables over, made a whip, drove out the animals and threw out the money!

John 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

The problem is this, people cant take the truth, the truth offends their egos, there is no "love of truth" because it brings offence.

Now we know that the truth is, God HAS preserved his word, it IS here on this earth today in one place, the "whole counsel of God". I never even want to imagine having to say to Christ I never believed we had a perfect copy of you word down there on earth. I never want to have to say I had to have a library full of different versions and ancient manuscripts with dead languages to understand your will for me in this life. NO WAY

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Some people need to step up to the front and admit they are blinded in their own wisdom as to where Jesus Christ has left his word and strive to enter in at the strait gate and not wander off to the broad way with apostate ministers apostate bibles and apostate churches.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Jesus is no respector of persons and some people could do with a healthy dose of "Fear Of The Lord"

Proverbs 22:4 By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.

Interesting picture about the sheepdogs, POTW.

Too bad some people lock up the one, "Mercy", so they won't be disturbed while throwing rocks at the "heretics", and don't feed the other one, "Goodness", so that being weak, it has little effect.

Re: "Sam Gipp's degree"
 

Aloha brother Steve (peopleoftheway),

I deeply appreciate you coming to my defense, but it’s useless to try and reason with “solabiblia”, because it is impossible to reason with an intellectual (or pseudo intellectual) snob (which all Sophists are).

Instead let’s “take stock” of Mr. (I assume we are dealing with a "Mr.") “solabiblia” – shall we:

01/06/09 - “solabiblia” JOINS the Forum (without so much of a “howdy” or “hello”). He says absolutely NOTHING in his bio about himself. We have NO IDEA WHO he is, or WHERE he’s been; or WHO he is “affiliated” with – NOTHING = NADA! In other words he is a perfect STRANGER, and obviously wants to keep it that way.

01/10/09 – In “solabiblia’s” 1st. Post he “CRITICIZES” brother Parrish! Did you get that? Here is this perfect STRANGER who “joins” with us, of whom we know NOTHING about – and in less than a week, and in his very first Post he is CRITICIZING one of the members here! I guess he never learned any “manners” when he was growing up, or he is just so arrogant that he thinks that it is OK to join a group of believers and just barge in and start CRITICIZING one of them! This was the 1st. “RED FLAG” (for me) in regards to Mr. “solabiblia”; that and the GREEK name he chose to use on an AV1611 Bible forum! {He cites 1 verse without quoting it.}

01/19/09- In “solabiblia’s” 2nd. Post he again “CRITICIZES” brother Parrish! (And I’m beginning to think: WHO does this guy “think” he is?) In a little over one week already he’s had the “chutzpah” to criticize another brother in Christ, without knowing the man! 2nd. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

01/22/09- - In “solabiblia’s” 3rd. Post the obtuse intellectual snob ends up “CRITICIZING” Diligent (Brandon Staggs) the originator and only “Moderator” on the Forum! Just how dumb can a highly “educated” person be? Can you imagine, a perfect STRANGER Going into some else’s home (or church) and within a couple of weeks CRITICIZING & INSULTING his host! Not only does “solabiblia” have NO MANNERS – he’s got NO SENSE either! 3rd. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way again - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

01/31/09- In “solabiblia’s” 4th. Post he “shows off” his knowledge of “textual matters” and expresses ADMIRATION for some long lost “HEBREW SCHOLAR”! And by now I know that we have “another one”, i.e. another unbelieving “scribe” has joined the Forum to criticize and foment division. {He refers to Psalm 12 in passing, without quoting it.} 4th. “RED FLAG”

02/04/09- In “solabiblia’s” 5th. Post he ends up “straining at gnats – pointing out the so-called differences between the AV1611 and the PCE using "F.H.A. Scrivener’s meticulous comparison" of the PCE and the AV1611. 5th. “RED FLAG” {ah, there’s that ADMIRATION of “scholars” (scribes) again! He cites 7 verses without fully quoting any of them.}

02/06/09– “solabiblia” is “on a roll” now, and so in his 6th. Post he “CRITICIZES” bibleprotector this time! He might as well spread his “CRITICISM” around don’t you think! After all he just can’t show “favoritism” (when it comes to his “CRITICISM”) to just one person! 6th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

02/08/09– “solabiblia’s” actually posted a non-destructive Post! {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

02/26/09- In “solabiblia’s” 8th. Post he “CRITICIZES” Biblestudent” – making his little feminized snide remarks and taking cheap shots that he is sooo good at! 7th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

04/04/09– “solabiblia” tries his hand at telling a Jewish/Russian Joke. ” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

04/20/09– After getting a drubbing for his “CRITICISM” of Bible student (a genuine Bible believer) “solabiblia takes a rest from his “CRITICIZING” for almost 2 months (to “lick his wounds – I presume) and then returns with QUESTIONS – ALWAYS QUESTIONS!

04/20/09- In “solabiblia’s” 11th. Post he again “CRITICIZES” bibleprotector! 8th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

04/25/09– In “solabiblia’s” 12th. Post he makes some “cutesy” remarks about the King James Bible translators – “intellectual snobs” just can’t help themselves! 9th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

04/25/09- In “solabiblia’s” 13th. Post he again “CRITICIZES” brother Parrish (with blasphemous sarcasm)! 10th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

05/06/09- In “solabiblia’s” 14th. Post he “CRITICIZES” me (just a poor, defenseless, “old curmudgeon”). He makes a FALSE ACCUSATION against me that proves that, although he may be “highly educated”, he has very little spiritual discernment or understanding. And then on top of that he tries to SILENCE me! (Can you imagine that?). 11th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

05/07/09- In “solabiblia’s” 15th. Post he “CRITICIZES” me AGAIN! And once again, demonstrates for all to see that he is incapable of spiritual discernment. He then takes his usual “cheap effeminate shot” at me; and then in response to my question: “WHY are you here?” follows up with his childish and immature response - “I like it here”. Which is either an outright LIE, or he needs to examine his perverse heart for sincerely “liking” to stir up controversy and trouble amongst the brethren! 12th. “RED FLAG” {Oh, and by the way - He cites NO VERSES of Scripture.}

This man is quite “TYPICAL” of the “product” that is being churned out in the “bible” schools & “Christian” colleges today - “puffed-up” intellectual snobs, who have as much in common with an ordinary Bible believer as a Snake has with a Swan!

Can you imagine – according to “solabiblia’s” own testimony: he TEACHES 50 “SCHOLARS” in Sunday school (“from the KJV”) – pity the “scholars”! He says he has “memorized somewhere around 50 chapters of the KJV”; he has “been going to churches that use the KJV since I was one week old." He says "I probably would think long and hard before attending a church that did not use the KJV. I love it, cherish it, quote it, and live by it.” {I wouldn’t waste one minute considering attending a “church” that did not USE the King James Bible – WHAT’S THERE TO “THINK” ABOUT – IF you truly LOVE & CHERISH IT?}

That part about I “LIVE BY IT” - is “a little much to swallow”, especially in light of “solabiblia’s” conduct on this Forum! And not only that but, who among us can honestly say with all sincerity that we “LIVE BY IT”? It takes a whole lot of personal pride for a person to make such a claim!

Let’s see:

So far, we have no idea WHO this man is; WHERE he comes from; or WHO or WHAT HE IS “AFFILIATED” WITH. We know practically nothing about him, and yet we are supposed to treat him like a “brother”? This “brother” JOINS our Forum and in less than a week he starts to “CRITICIZE” members of this Forum – just exactly WHO does he think he is?

Out of the 15 Posts that he posts on this Forum – 10 of them “CRITICIZE” some member of this Forum! Fully 2/3 of his Posts are “CRITICAL” of the brethren! WHO do we know that is called “the ACCUSER of our brethren”? [Revelation 12:10] Hmmm?

In his 15 Posts he never fully quotes one verse of Scripture (which he professes to “love” & “cherish”). In 15 Posts he only cites (without quoting) 9 verses of Scripture and 7 of them are used to point out so-called “differences” between the AV1611 and the PCE.

Since this man has shown up on the Forum he has not edified one single person (his fellow traveler “greektim” doesn’t count), but instead, through his destructive “CRITICISM” and comments, he has only fomented division and debate.

PLEASE NOTICE: There is not one single time in ALL of “solabiblia’s” Posts where he EVER addresses anyone on this Forum as “BROTHER”! Did you get that? {Think about THAT for awhile!} This man is so stuck up that he doesn’t even have the courtesy to address a Bible believer as “BROTHER”! {Check out his Posts!}

Did “solabiblia” come here to edify the brethren? I doubt it! Did he come here to “profit withal”? You could fool me! Did he come here for some Christian “FELLOWSHIP”? I trow not! Do we need any more “PROOF” that this STRANGER in our midst is a TROUBLE MAKER? What more “PROOF” do we need?

In the 1970’s Jack Van Impe claimed that he had “memorized” the entire New Testament (in the King James Bible), and “good old Jack” wouldn’t hesitate to ADD, SUBTRACT, or CHANGE the Holy words of God whenever it was “convenient” for him to do so. I wasn’t impressed with Van Impe then (and told him so); and I’m certainly not impressed with “solabiblia” now {After all he has “memorized” ONLY 50 Chapters - Van impe “memorized” the entire New Testament and still turned out to be a Bible denying APOSTATE!}

I am determined not to engage in any more discussions with this man; it would be a waste of my time and an exercise in futility. If he continues with his destructive comments I will “comment” on them but will not engage him in conversation. Like I have said on several occasions before this: “I discovered long ago that there is NO PROFIT in dealing with a SOPHIST”!

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Brother Tim, with all due respect, can you just quit with the metaphors, and come right out into the light and tell us who in your opinion the "some people" are and who "the dogs behind the fence" are in your eyes, although I think that you are referring to Brother George and myself. I would just like you to actually say it without wrapping it up in a metaphor. I make no apology for calling out a Bible denier on a bible believing forum.

I agree, I shall stick to communication and edification with the "few" on this forum that I genuinely count as Brothers. While I am content in the fact I don't know a whole lot about scripture nor all the history and manuscript evidence, I do know a sincere Bible Believer when I see one, or in this case should I say "read" one and I shall continue to "bark" at any passers by who might be thinking of desecrating my masters house and his Holy word.

1 Timothy 6:3-6 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.

No, Brother Steve, I was not referring to you in my musing metaphor.

Aloha brother Tim,

And I hope that you are not referring to me :confused: - you have yet to answer my Scriptural inquiry that I put forth in Post #29 this Thread:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...6&postcount=29http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...6&postcount=29

Solabible said:

I use the KJV in my private devotions (Cambridge, by the way). I teach from the KJV every Sunday to a class of about 50 scholars. I have the KJV on my computer and my PDA for quick reference. I have memorized somewhere around 50 chapters of the KJV

Impressive!!! A local cult leader here in the Philippines by the name of Eliseo Soriano a.ka. "Bro. Ely" onced said that he can read the whole bible even the whole darkest night. Not to mention however, that he had his flashlight on hand. :pound::pound::pound::jaw::jaw::jaw:

We can master the Scriptures but let the Scriptures master you.

Psalms 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart.
Isaiah 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

post #70 above
 

So Brother Tim, by not including George in the above quote, you are talking about the old curmudgin?

Renee

Well, these huge holes in my side do sorta look like an ol' hound dog lit into me. :( He was so busy telling the dog outside the fence how he felt about him, that when I bumped into him, he BIT me! He must not have realized that we were on the same side of the fence, and I had been barking at that dog for a long time myself. I know his scent well, and he is no danger to us inside the fence. He'll pass on after a while and we can get back to sharing fleas amongst ourselves. But for now, I need to finish licking my wounds and get a little energy back, so I can to answer the question the big dog asked me. :rolleyes: ;)

P.S. I really didn't realize that George's question in #29 was expecting a response. I viewed it as a presentation of a view posed in question form. I will answer the question, George.

P.S.S. As I went back to review, I did notice that Steven got a bite in as well. Sigh!

You're Good With It, I'm Good With It
 

Sounds like a plan.

Hi Brother Tim

I never intended anything I said to you to be taken as a "bite" there are things that I certainly will disagree with you with like the timing of the translation of the saints, but I still count you as a Brother, I also have a healthy respect for your longsuffering toward those who follow the greek, theology and all things intellectual.
Truth is a Brother told me a while back not to let people like solabiblia, greektim get to me, I have seen so many heartfelt posts from many genuine people on this forum, genuine Bible believers of no estate nor of any higher IQ or standing intellectually, just ordinary God Fearing Christians and by their fruits we do know them. As for the insincere ones, the many many more before them who have pushed the same tired old agenda and arguments (search button on the forum should be a requirement to join) The outcome is always fruitless, because they come not to discuss, but to PUSH and to PULL at those who are of a lesser intellect, or those who may not have a "grasp" of the scriptures. Memorizing 50 chapters of scripture does not make anyone a better believer if they have no idea how to rightly divide the 50 chapters they have memorized, its like memorizing a car manual, yet you don't own that car, fruitless.
I will stick with scripture and end with

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

This is my very first post on this forum. I have been a pastor for 20 years. 3 years ago one of my deacons gave me one of Dr. Gipp's books as a gift. I had never heard of Sam Gipp until receiving that book.

He puts "Dr." by his name. I take that to be my invitation to ask where he received that title since he has made the decision to use it as a means of identification.

I have every now and then tried to find where he received his education and have never been able to find it.

I saw this thread as I surfed various forums and hoped to find the answer here.

Haven't found it yet. Instead, I find brothers saying it isn't important where he got his degree and questioning the motive of the one who asked. That is fair.

But don't loose sight that although you may say it isn't important where Gipp got his degree, he thinks it is important. He is the one who puts that title by his name. To put that title by your name makes you accountable to the body of Christ to expect an answer as to where you received it.

There are alot of diploma mills out there. Anyone can get one with a credit card on a website.

Pastor Pat

Hello Pastor Pat, welcome.

If Brother Gipp, feels its important to have the letters after his name, that is his concern, I don't know him, I know some of his work, this forum is av1611.com not Samgipp.com so I couldn't say otherwise. The reason this thread stirred up much controversy is the belief that some folks have that in order to be a Pastor / teacher / Evangelist a degree is needed or some kind of formal qualification to go out and "Preach the word" and this is just not the case.
If Sam Gipp feels it is important to him and his ministry to have those letters after his name, that is between him and the Lord if his doctrine is sound. If anyone is really concerned about his use of ThD after his name I suggest they email the man direct and ask him.
If the man preaches the word in all truth and teaches sound doctrine, it does not concern me where the letters after his name came from.

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

I've spoken to people who make Gipp the subject, not his book. for some odd reason(I guess laziness)they prefer not to address the book point by point as most do not seem to have the wits to, but must undermine the messenger. The arguments I have seen are state accreditation of the school Gipp got his degree, if that is impeached his whole work is impeached, so goes the train of thought.

I guess that impeaches Simon Peter also, a mere fisherman, Matthew, who was an IRS agent and bookkeeper, and several apostles whose visible means of support are not named and a Nazarene carpenter of questionable parentage.

BTW, what is your IQ brother? It's important to know whether mines exceeds it or not.

Grace and peace

Tony:jaw:

You know.. local church colleges with no 501c3 status or other government accreditation doesn't mean that they are diploma mills.

People work hard for those degrees, regardless of whether or not they COST $100 or $10,000.

You can't put a price on the study of God's word. And just because someone went to a great college doesn't make them a good student of the word.