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cb6445 05-02-2009 12:18 PM

Help Me Back KJB
 
I recently had a family member, whom I love dearly, tell me something that really offended me. My spirit automatically leads me to the King James Bible! It is God's word, without error!!!!!! My God makes NO mistakes!!!!! Uggg, I get so upset when people say ANYTHING negative about the KJB! Now, I am really "green" as to why I am this way (meaning being able to prove it to others, other than comparing scripture to scripture with the other versions and showing people). I have the only reason I need (John 16: 13), the spirit guiding me to the truth (God's word is truth, thus guiding me to the King James which is God's word.....TRUTH)!!!! Anyway, she said "Catholics preserved the King James Bible for us!" Lord have mercy on her for giving Catholics credit for preserving the word of God! I have found a lot of help on this site and in the forums to help me in the "backing" of my King James, but being so "green" on the subject of how we got the King James, etc. can someone just give me some basics on how to sharply rebuke a statement like this? Thank you, and may God Bless each of you!

Cody1611 05-02-2009 12:24 PM

I recommend this book and then after you read it. I would lend it to your family member.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/1252.asp

Did the Catholic Church Give Us the Bible? by David W Daniels

cb6445 05-02-2009 12:31 PM

Great! Exactly what I need. Thanks for the help!

tonybones2112 05-02-2009 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19022)
I recently had a family member, whom I love dearly, tell me something that really offended me. My spirit automatically leads me to the King James Bible! It is God's word, without error!!!!!! My God makes NO mistakes!!!!! Uggg, I get so upset when people say ANYTHING negative about the KJB! Now, I am really "green" as to why I am this way (meaning being able to prove it to others, other than comparing scripture to scripture with the other versions and showing people). I have the only reason I need (John 16: 13), the spirit guiding me to the truth (God's word is truth, thus guiding me to the King James which is God's word.....TRUTH)!!!! Anyway, she said "Catholics preserved the King James Bible for us!" Lord have mercy on her for giving Catholics credit for preserving the word of God! I have found a lot of help on this site and in the forums to help me in the "backing" of my King James, but being so "green" on the subject of how we got the King James, etc. can someone just give me some basics on how to sharply rebuke a statement like this? Thank you, and may God Bless each of you!

Clint, more important than simple back and forth swordfighting over critiques and false statements would be to find out the source for your relatives statement. Does she have Scripture to back this, or did someone tell her, or dis she just come out of nowhere with this?

It is part of history that the Catholics have burned copies of their own bibles because they were in the hands of common people, and not the church hierarchy. John Wycliffe tried to translate the Catholic Latin Vulgate into English with readings from the Majority text and it was banned and burned, the people who were found in possession of it burned also, and this issue leading to the rise of Huss, John Ziska, a guerrilla general, and the Hussite wars in Germany. Roman Catholicism, like all cults, is only based on the Bible.

My email address should be open to view, if you will contact me through this email address, I will send you Dr. Samuel Gipp's 1611 Answer Book that he has made free for download and distribution.

Bless you and grace and peace brother

Tony

cb6445 05-02-2009 08:39 PM

Her source is the fact that her daughter turned to Catholicism. She was raised Baptist and married a Catholic and decided it was easier to live for the devil as a Catholic than a Baptist, lol. I was talking about her daughter and how she needed to quit being so "easy going" on her and tell her the truth about Catholics and their whole "religion". She has always been very easy with her daughter about it, and I believe it's doing her an injustice. Her daughter's soul is at stake. Well, she get's defensive about it, and as much as I can figure I think she made just heard her daughter (the Catholic) say that Catholics preserved our King James Bible for us. Lord help us! I wouldn't believe that if I had said it myself. My Nana is the same way with my cousin, who is a sodomite. She is "honoring sons (daughter and grandchild in this case) above God." She has never had the King James issue pressed upon her, until now. She hears it from me now, b/c the Lord called me to preach. She comes to hear me preach where I go to church (KJV only) and hears me preach on it. I just wanna show her how important it is. Where she goes to church (FBC) no one cares what kind of Bible you read or study (I guess they're all just translations to them). Anyway, I'll email you Bro, I'll take all the help I can get on this matter. God Bless!!

tonybones2112 05-03-2009 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19044)
Her source is the fact that her daughter turned to Catholicism. She was raised Baptist and married a Catholic and decided it was easier to live for the devil as a Catholic than a Baptist, lol. I was talking about her daughter and how she needed to quit being so "easy going" on her and tell her the truth about Catholics and their whole "religion". She has always been very easy with her daughter about it, and I believe it's doing her an injustice. Her daughter's soul is at stake. Well, she get's defensive about it, and as much as I can figure I think she made just heard her daughter (the Catholic) say that Catholics preserved our King James Bible for us. Lord help us! I wouldn't believe that if I had said it myself. My Nana is the same way with my cousin, who is a sodomite. She is "honoring sons (daughter and grandchild in this case) above God." She has never had the King James issue pressed upon her, until now. She hears it from me now, b/c the Lord called me to preach. She comes to hear me preach where I go to church (KJV only) and hears me preach on it. I just wanna show her how important it is. Where she goes to church (FBC) no one cares what kind of Bible you read or study (I guess they're all just translations to them). Anyway, I'll email you Bro, I'll take all the help I can get on this matter. God Bless!!

Clint, I'll do anything I can to help you, public or private.

My friend, being "raised" a Grace Believer, being "raised" a Baptist, being "raised" a Quaker, Plymouth Brethren, Lutheren, means nothing. Was your relative raised a Christian?

Saying the Catholics preserving the KJV is like saying the Nazis preserved the Jewish race so that they could exterminate them. The Bible in ANY form is an enemy to Catholicism, what bibles they do accept has to be sanitized of any and all anti-Catholic teaching. Your relatives might need to hear about the reason the Gunpowder Plot in England occurred, it was after the decision had been made to go ahead and translate the Bible into English. Guy Fawkes (Catholic)was busted trying to fill the basement of Parliament with barrels of gunpowder to blow them up to punish or prevent the work being done on the KJV. The Catholics have no power in the Spirit of God so their ordinances are carnal, their dogmas are carnal, their practices and traditions are carnal, and the weapons of their warfare are carnal.

I was called to be a street minster and defender of the Bible. I want to advise you of some things: The "four gospels" are doctrinally still in the OT but since the OT was written for our examples, learning, warnings, and so on, you have to carry on with your calling and preach the word, preach the TRUTH. I'm not sowing discord in your family, you have to do what God wants you to do and not worry about offending ANYBODY. That parable of the ploughman has many, many, many, applications for us today. Clint, don't put your hand to the plough and look back over your shoulder with concern about what your family is going to say about your preaching. Can you plow a straight row with your head screwed around backwards? Don't put your hand to the plough and sow grace and look back at the law, as I begged Tandi in this forum not to do. Don't put your hand to the plough and look back on bankrupt Sophist/Gnostic "manuscript evidence" to disarm yourself of your sword of the Lord. I got sermons and messages and examples on the Parable of the Ploughman people never dream of in their worst nightmares. Oh sure, let's take those verses out of the KJV, they are bogus. Right. Let's take some parts out of your M-16 as you are on the plane for Iraq and see how well it shoots in a firefight defending yourself and your fellow soldiers and trying to carry out your mission orders.

I was raised in the Church of Christ, though my Dad never forced it on me. I was saved in a Nazarene Sunday school class when a woman teacher gave the gospel to us. I was 12. I left the CoC at the age of 28 after Dad died. A few years later after I had discovered how to rightly divide the Scriptures, my pastor was challenged to a debate by a CoC "evangelist". He said he didn't want it, I said I'll do it, I'm ex-CoC. Half my Dad's family was in the audience the two nights of that debate. The debate was over 18 minutes and 32 seconds into my first 20 minute session when I asked if Christ's water baptism was a work of righteousness and my opponent spent the next two nights trying to dance around and avoid Titus 3:5:

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

We didn't discuss any of the topics on the agreed-upon agenda because I would not let him avoid this one question. The moderator insisted he answer and he danced around it for two nights. After this debate it was secretly circulated among local CoC circles that no more debates would be offered to or accepted if offered by me. I saw the memo.

Half my Dad's family were in the audience, and I ain't spoken to most of them since. That was 20 years ago.

Clint, some your family is going to turn on you over this issue and become divided. If a cousin marries a Syrian or an Iranian and you are shipped to Iraq as a soldier, they will divide over that issue. This case?

Roman Catholicism is our number one enemy on earth in the carnal realm. Your family is going to have to stew in their juice if it offends them.

I'm going to conclude by saying something will cause your computer to crash: No one is "called" to do anything. Every Christian has been assigned the ministry of reconciliation and ambassadorship of Christ, that is our only "calling". If you feel you need and want to be the bishop of a local assembly, go for it and don't look back, you'll only plow crooked rows if you do. I'll be looking for your email.

Clint, preach the word.

Grace and peace.

Tony

cb6445 05-03-2009 02:35 PM

Thanks
 
Oh, that was great brother. I'll have to use the example of Hitler and the Jews. Rightly divided response, I thank you! I'll have to say though, brother, I'm not sure I agree with you on the "calling." I'm studying it further and I'll pray he guides me to the truth on this matter. Are you saying men used to be "called" and now (in the Church Age) are not? Was Paul the last one to be "called" to do a specific duty for the Lord (1 Cor 1: 1)? You don't believe some choose it and some are "called?" He also refers to it as being "appointed" (2 Tim 1: 11). I'll admit though, I do not see any other refereces/examples (that would apply to us) of anyone other than Paul being appointed or called (by God) to do a specific "job." Paul "appointed" Titus to do a specific duty. Hmmm, you've not made my PC crash, but my mind....that's another thing. Anyway, thanks again for the reply, it helped and influenced me to study the Word of God, which is (of course) always a good thing!! God Bless!

cb6445 05-03-2009 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 (Post 19051)
I was called to be a street minster and defender of the Bible. I want to advise you of some things: The "four gospels" are doctrinally still in the OT but since the OT was written for our examples, learning, warnings, and so on, you have to carry on with your calling and preach the word, preach the TRUTH. I'm not sowing discord in your family, you have to do what God wants you to do and not worry about offending ANYBODY.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but if no one is "called" to do anything, why did you make the statements above?

Winman 05-03-2009 07:04 PM

Yes, the only thing the Catholic Church has preserved is the ancient Babylonian religion. If you have never read The Two Babylons, it is a profound book. Once you see all the symbols and practices of the Catholic Church in comparison to the ancient Babylonian religion you will be amazed.

Here is an online version that has some illustrations (click on the links at the bottom of the Introduction)

http://www.americanpresbyterianchurc...roduction3.htm

tonybones2112 05-03-2009 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19070)
Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but if no one is "called" to do anything, why did you make the statements above?

Brother, I'll answer the message above and this one in one response: How were you called? I'm not being sarcastic. Did you hear a voice? Did you get this overwhelming emotional rush during a preaching service? Did the phone ring? Was it a curious coincidence of happenings, sort of a Christian Kismet, occur? Did some people get together and tell you you have a talent and should do this or that? I have no concept of being "called", because no one has ever been able to answer my question; How were you called, how did you know? People go farther and say, "God called me to do this or that..." Fine. Psychic link? Text message? Email? Scriptures?

We will find NO calling not found in the Scriptures. I met many young people at college who told me they had been "called to a ministry of music". I can;t find any "music ministries" in the Scriptures. Our "calling" is from the Scriptures, those callings that Paul mentions, yes. The "call" has been already made. I knew I found my niche' in the street ministry due to me falling in love with it and with the people. I stopped, and looked around. These people were like me. I had a natural talent for research and a zeal to defend the foundation I teach and preach from and comment from. I was a man bold enough to go where "Christ is not named", that is, "the marketplace". Mars Hill. So I might have said better my Scriptural calling. And surprisingly, I am mildly agoraphobic, I don;t like public places or crowds. I get nervous in crowds. After doing it I felt I could do it, and defend the Scriptures. Over the years I feel I have done fairly well on both counts.

Maybe I should have defined my terms a little better, just too many people have said to me, "God has just spoken to me..." "or "God has given me a message..." God ain;t gonna give much apart from the Scriptures. I just want to know what is meant when people say, I was "called". I only know from my own experience. As ex Church Of Christ, we had no "callings". In an evangelical, we're gonna take over the world for Christ college, I saw music ministries and TV ministries and writing ministries and singing ministries and racing ministries(!!!) and God "calling" people left and right into things I could not find in the Scriptures.

If you feel preaching is a Scriptural calling, then do it, and let no man try and discourage you from it.

Grace and peace to you brother

Tony

cb6445 05-03-2009 08:59 PM

Brother
 
I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

tonybones2112 05-03-2009 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19089)
I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

Clint, it was late and my choice of words was wrong maybe, I know I'm out there as far as a lot of traditional fundamentalists go and didn't want to leave anyone with the impression I am some kind of theological Abby Hoffman or anything. The old time "calling", yes, is there. But I've noticed a lot of occultism creeping into the Church, which is natural and to be expected, this is war, brother, soldiers fight battles in wars. I saw many young men and women grooming their appearance and their voices and their "people skills" in college, and not a grenade, not a machine gun going off, not a spear being thrown or the clash of swords, and then the Scriptures reminded me these people know little or nothing of war in the spiritual realm, of the assaults that go on around us in the heavenlies and in the realm of the spirit. I am glad you understand and glad I was not confusing. I know the discussion on water baptism may have some of us tense, but most of you just have not gotten to get into a spiritual firefight with me next to you yet to see that we have much, much more in common than we differ.

Clint, the Scriptural proofs of what happens to a Christian at death has roots in the book of John:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ is saying in the first part of this verse the simple truth that we don't go to heaven at death under our own power., as a man climbing up steps, or climbing a ladder, we are taken there. And it is Scriptural doctrine that yes, the instant we die, we are in His Presence:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The Watchtower, the SDA, and the Church Of Christ all teach a state of "unconsciousness" in death called Soul Sleep. I think Herbert W. Armstrong of the Worldwide Church Of God taught it too, he was ex-SDA.

There is no reason for a Christian to fear the state of death, we have not been gioven the spirit of fear, but as humans we all fear the manner in which it it occurs. None of us want to be in a plane crash, or have some vicious disease, but in the flesh we have to suffer the infirmities of it. But brother, yes, we die and are then in His Presence.

Hold fast Clint, grace and peace to you brother.

Tony

chette777 05-04-2009 04:17 AM

I have come to a point to where I realize it is the Holy Ghost job to convince people of the truth of the KJV Bible.. we can only help so far and we better be careful on how we do help too.pray for them is the most best way.

when I was first challenged to read a KJV Bible. I did not come to it hoping to prove it wrong. but I came to it asking God to show me truth. and boy did he. from that time since I have been a believer in the KJV as the preserved word of God for today

cb6445 05-04-2009 05:58 PM

Tony
 
I agree Bro Tony, but is that not only for those who are saved? When a sinner dies lost, does he not open his eyes in hell (Luke 16: 23), only to be resurrected to stand before God in judgement and cast into the Lake of Fire? Nevermind, I just saw where you said what happens to a "Christian" when they die. I agree, but this man was saying lost and saved go to Heaven when they die and are judged then.

tonybones2112 05-04-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19089)
I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

Clint, I hope those ebooks will be helkful. Burgon is a little up there and needs to be read carefully, Gipp's book is very straightforward.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

bibleprotector 05-05-2009 01:45 AM

Agreed. Sam Gipp's "Answers Book" is a good starting point. Other stuff gets more detailed or technical.

cb6445 05-05-2009 03:39 PM

Bro Tony
 
Hey, thanks again for those ebooks. I've not got a chance to get started on 'em but I will soon enough! My pastor has asked me to preach mother's day, so I'm studyin up for it (pray for me). We just lost about half our Church over the most childish reason (hurt feelings), and I'm pretty sure this message will not be a "favorite among the crowd." I thank you ALL again for your help on this thread! God Bless!!!

tonybones2112 05-05-2009 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cb6445 (Post 19236)
Hey, thanks again for those ebooks. I've not got a chance to get started on 'em but I will soon enough! My pastor has asked me to preach mother's day, so I'm studyin up for it (pray for me). We just lost about half our Church over the most childish reason (hurt feelings), and I'm pretty sure this message will not be a "favorite among the crowd." I thank you ALL again for your help on this thread! God Bless!!!

Clint, pray for the ones who left, but remember, God Himself dismissed a large crowd of soldiers and Gideon did what he did with the 300. People have too tissue thin of feelings. If we were running for our lives and hiding to worship God, like in Roman times, we'd be a lot different. Remember always too that He and His works are seen in the creation as Romans 1 says, and my point is this: Every cell divides, what cell don;t divide is dead. If people leave a church a core will start another one, and maybe some of them will come back to you.

Read Dr. Gipp's book first, it will give you a foundation of the version controversey that THEY started, not Bible Believers.

I'll be praying and thinking of you Clint

Grace and peace brother

Tony


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