Lordship Salvation Video
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCachxMOBDo

This video is hilarious...

The portrayal of the Paul Washer fanboy is spot on.

Does anyone know what program the guy made the video in?

Although I can't hear the video (I'm deaf), I do know about Paul Washer's false teachings. I know some Christians who really like his preaching, but I don't think they fully understand the false portions of his message. Here's a good webpage that I found that explains why his teachings are in error:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/paul_washer.htm

Jassy

Good site, Jassy. I love this quote from Dr. John R. Rice (whom I've never heard of before):

“The change in your heart, sinner, is God's part and you may be sure He will attend to that. Your part is to simply believe in Him. Whatever else is necessary in your eternal salvation, the Lord attends to when you trust in Him, or believe in Him.”

Jennifer

I liked that quote too, sis. Here's a webpage that has a number of audio sermons by Dr. John R. Rice. I don't know who he is either. You could check them out. http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/RiceJohn.html

Jassy

Thanks, sis! I'll check it out.

Jennifer

John R. Rice has many good words on many good topics, but he was an Original Manuscript Fraud who wrote a book called OUR GOD-BREATHED BOOK, THE BIBLE, and then stated that this "bible" is only inspired in the original manuscripts in this book. Dr. Ruckman and many other KJV defenders were scathing in their criticism of Rice. Many years ago Dr. Herbert Evans wrote Rice a letter that later became a pamphlet that outlined Rice's views from his own words on the KJV and the inspiration of the Scriptures, it was called, Dear Dr. John, Where Is My Bible? Rice was also, as Dr. Ruckman is today, staunchly opposed to Grace believing dispensationalists and joined the "dry cleaning church splitters" bandwagon only after others took it up. Dr. Rice believed the doctrinal error that OT personalities "looked forward to the cross while we today look backwards." Many of his commentaries spoke of "...fine OT Christians like Abraham...". There were no "Christians" in the OT. Christ's own apostles were not aware that He came to earth to die for the sins of the world. As far as any dispensational studies Rice recognized a difference between the OT and the NT and that was it, in any Scripture with Scripture study he was as I said of Herbert W. Armstrong, he couldn't put two verses of Scripture together with two bulldozers and 16 tons of Super Glue.

Dr. Rice would not take a stand against the critics of the KJV because he didn't want to lose subscriptions to Sword Of The Lord magazine and jeopardize his self-appointed position as "leader" of the IFB movement against the Southern Baptist Convention.

Dr. John R. Rice was a good man and accomplished much good and would have accomplished 100 times the good if he'd stayed out of Baptist politics and preached that the Bible in his hands was given by inspiration of God. Any Bible. In some of his writings you will find he uses the ASV of 1901. Sisters, when you read Dr. Rice, my advice is you have a Bible in front of you when you do, and one rightly divided. While Ray Comfort and Paul Washer no doubt will have books written about their errors I'm sure you could glean the works of Dr. Peter Ruckman and assemble a good sized book on Dr. Rice's errors on right division and there being no Bible you can hold in your hands that is given by inspiration of God. Dr. Rice taught and preached from a Bible he didn't believe was inspired and had errors in it.

Grace and peace sisters.

Tony

Watch out! a man that does not Believe the Bible (KJV), is the inspired word of God. May not correctly interpret it either. :)

Tony- There are not enough hours in the day to study everything and everybody so it's helpful to be able to rely a bit on another believer's demonstrated knowledge and discernment in order to redeem the time. Thanks, brother.

Jen

Reading and listening to teachers using MBV's has grieved my spirit for years, ever since I read Riplinger and became aware of the issue and the Lord convicted my heart on the matter. However, I'm not to a point where I automatically reject a teacher who isn't KJVO. The way I see it is that MBV's and KJVO's who are believers are all of the same body and we can benefit from each others teaching, gifts, and service. I'm sort of in flux on the issue. Of any teachers Dave Hunt, Chuck Missler and Noah Hutchings have had the most influence on me. Dave Hunt isn't KJVO. Chuck prefers the KJB, I believe. Noah Hutchings uses KJB. However, none of them made KJVO a major focus of their ministries, if at all. In order for me to spend time and energy on a Bible teacher who uses a corrupted version I have to feel that he has something really valuable or unique to teach to make it worth my while and the worth the pain of hearing or reading a corrupt Bible version. It may be that the Bible version issue will become increasingly important as more corrupt versions are published and will force even more division. I don't know. I do know that there are some people on this board who are experts in this area. I am so blessed of God to have been shown that the KJB is His perfect Word. I'm afraid I stopped there. I'm slowly learning more about the topic.

Sister, John Rice was not the devil, it's just that God is not a respecter of persons, I don't care how long a person is "in the Lord" or how well loved they are by us, they got no business running around substituting themselves as the authority. When a man says a verse is mistranslated or not supposed to be there, you are saying Yea, did God really say that? And then if he is believed like the sheep over on FFF believe Barry and Robycop, or James White's books, they become the authority, which is what they want.

That's why Brandon has a Bible Versions section of this forum, keep the authority in the Book, let each Christian then be fully persuaded.

Grace and peace sister

Tony

Yeah, I am not against non-KJBO preachers.

I used to be. As soon as they used a modern version, that was it.. I never listened after that. It's a silly way to be, because you might still be able to learn from them. Dave Hunt has a lot of good material about calvinism, the charismatic movement etc... I would rather read a KJBO author. I find young KJBO preachers to be the most arrogant people I have ever met though... so I'd rather speak to an older gentlemen even if he uses a modern version.

Have a look on youtube for the use baptistav1611 and watch his series on "Young Preacher throws Bible out of the pulpit" or "Young preacher preaches about AIDs" or "Young preacher sticks it to Obama" or other stupid topics, where the preacher stands there screaming as loud as he can about how they are right, everyone else is wrong, and that they can all go to hell because Paul said they were accursed and then he smashes the pulpit a few times for effect while shouting some more.

Most of them MV crowd don't even know they are in error.

On youtube, I found a great channel by a guy named Steve McVey. He appears to be a "Grace Believer" like TonyBones. Well, his website is all about the Grace Walk. I am not sure what his doctrinal stand is, but he has a series titled "101 Lies you hear every sunday" with things like

#1 Salvation is giving your life to Jesus Christ

And then he spends a short time explaining why this is a lie (the above is a lie because we don't give anything - we receive life from Jesus Christ).

But, despite his good teaching on Grace, he is not KJBO and seems to be reading from the NKJV or something. He doesn't say. And he doesn't correct the Bible. So I just substitute King James in. If it fits, then great. If he is wrong, then he is wrong.

I don't either Luke, unless their message or their point is so diluted by MV nonsense that the message makes no sense. Someone trying to give a message using the NET "bible" would make more sense using a NWT or NIV. It's a worse paraphrase than the Living or Good News ever dreamed of being. My computer is not Youtube capable being on dialup, and there is little over there would interest me anyway. I never heard of Steve McVey, I think his reasonable service, time, and resources as a "grace" believer(a dispensationalist)might be better spent preaching Christ crucified as an ambassador for Christ, rather than chopping down other churches and people. Another thing you need to watch and have discernment on is that not everyone who says the word "grace" is the grace dispensationlist type. Many Calvinists have adopted the redefinition of the word "grace" to mean "absolute predestination" so you see many Calvinist churches with "Grace" this or that in their name.

There is a Latino lunatic in Florida right now teaching a "grace" message and like Benny Hinn and the rest of the fakes, draining his followers of money. He preaches on a pulpit with "666" on it and his followers wear tshirts with that number on it. His interpretation of "grace" is the same as Joal Osteen's: He takes ALL the negative aspects out of Scripture, this Latino guy also teaches NO HELL. If you go to Dr. Ruckman's website and download the June 2009 Bible Believers Bulletin on .pdf he has a few pages discussing Joel Osteen in Doc Pete's own, quaint manner.

You have to be grounded in the word rightly divided and have discernment, even many KJV Only Christians teach unsound doctrine. The Mormon Church uses only the KJV, cultists use the KJV and an example of that was Tandi here who was banned trying to preach her convoluted and mutated SDA doctrines.
Corrupting the Scriptures(bible versions) and Wresting Scriptures are two totally different precepts. Corruption is merely that, adding to, taking from, changing them. Wresting a Scripture to obtain a private interpretation is misapplying the Scripture the Wrestler may believe is God's inspired word.

When Paul came to the synagogue in Berea the Bereans didn't accept him at face value but searched the Scriptures on a daily basis to see that what Paul preached was true. I have a saying: The more you know the less chance you'll get your leg pulled. The Church Of Christ pulled my leg for 30 years simply because their indoctrination was emphasized as authoritative, not Bible study. After I became grounded in the word a Bride Baptist church here in Ohio essentially tried to pull my leg into believing their church members were the only ones going up in the Rapture if it had occurred. When I became grounded in dispensational doctrine Cornelius Stam of The Berean Bible Society tried to pull my leg that we had no inspired Bible and that the KJV had "errors" in it. Tandi tried to pull our legs into going back under the Law and used a KJV to try and do it. Our webmaster is grounded in a rightly divided Bible that is God's inspired words, and she lasted about 2 seconds after she declared herself, didn't she?

Brother, be a workman with your Bible, study it daily and rightly divide it. As i said in another thread, when I learned to rightly divide the Bible as Paul said to and not CI Scofield I began to see things faster than they could be written down. The Bible itself is no longer a mystery to me, though there is more knowledge and wisdom in it than any one human being can understand.

Grace and peace brother Luke

Tony

TonyBones quote:
Tony,

I believe you. As you know, I came to this board already a dispensationalist. I know I only have a rudimentary (but essential) understanding. I love it when contradictions disappear before my very eyes! And when order is brought out of chaos!

In Christ,
Jen

Ain't it neat how everything just falls into place? There is a lot in the Bible I don't understand. I don't understand the similitude, or I should say, I have not yet found the similitude, the significance, of the angel troubling the waters in John 5 is one. I guess if people want to park and stay with Scofield and his seven dispensations, that okay with me. I don't see them though. Paul points out 3, the first one encompassing the first 5 of Scofield's and with two little words relegates them down, for practical purposes, to one dispensation: Time Past. Because Scofield's 5th dispensation is the important one that the first 4 are mere lead ins to: The dispensation of Law with Israel as Top Dog on earth. He contrasts our sorry condition under this dispensation, and then reveals in Eph. 2 and 3 a personal revelation to us from Christ that things have changed: But Now. But now the last dealings by the last apostle to deal with Israel, Paul, has ceased in Acts 28, the apostolic signs have been taken at the end of Acts 28 and time to move to Acts Chapter 29: Today, the "but now". Dispensation 2. Do we need to hoard ammunition and peanut butter in fearful expectations of the horrors of the book of Revelation? No. Our part in that is we will be revealing His glory in us in "ages to come". The Rapture of the church can take place at any instant. People say to me, how do I avoid taking the Mark Of The Beast? That's simple, get into the Body of Christ now.

Grace and peace and I wish you well in your studies.

Tony

1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

James 3
King James Bible

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Matthew 10
King James Bible

Fascinating thread. Sometimes I tend to think that God holds us accountable for the light we have been exposed to.

38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, 39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Mark 12
King James Bible

20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Matthew 11
King James Bible

One of the reasons I have studiously avoided involvement in "church" related occupations is to avoid the type of entanglements described earlier in the thread. If I have to choose supporting my family or obeying God, which will I choose? Let me tell you, I choose right now to beseech the Lord to never let me fail that test.

10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.

11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.

12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

Job 23
King James Bible

9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God. 10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe: 11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, 12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

1 Thessalonians 2
King James Bible

31 In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. 32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. 33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? 34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 4
King James Bible

I am not sure I understand the point of your message John??

The video
 

This video was made with the xtranormal program.
Go to xtranormal.com and you can make some too.
Right now it's a browser program, but they are working on a downloadable version.

Hi brother. I am very definitely against "Lordship salvation". I do not see it in Scripture and those that think they do are not understanding why the Lord said such things as "Whosoever he be that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple" or the one about "No man having put his hand to the plow and turning back is worthy.." etc. There is plan A - the law and extreme discipleship. When the apostles all fell on their faces, denied the Lord and all forsook Him and fled. Then Christ died and revealed Plan B, (which really is the only plan that works). It is all by grace. Christ fulfilled the law in our behalf. They just do not yet see the truth of the grace of God.

Will K

I live less than an hour from old Paul Washer. He goes to church with one of my good friends. If you go back and listen to his "shocking message to youth" count how many times you hear him say: I, me, I am, mine, I, I ....He sounds like the fool in Luke who says to his soul, relax and take thine ease for thou hast many goods...so on and so forth. Then remember the verse where it says that we preach not ourselves. Then there you go. Washer's heresy is brought to light. I plan on meeting him one day and I'd like to try to help him out. Lord willing.

This one is pretty funny as well. :pound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Tec...response_watch

Lordship salvation, defined by one who labels it heresy, is "the view that for salvation a person must trust Jesus Christ as his Savior from sin and must also commit himself to Christ as Lord of his life, submitting to His sovereign authority." This seems to be what I gather from your posts.

To me it is astonishing that anyone would characterize that truth as unbiblical or heretical. The implication is that acknowledging Christ's lordship is a human work. That mistaken notation is backed by volumes of literature that speaks of people "making Jesus Christ Lord of their lives."

We do not "make" Christ Lord: He is Lord! Those who will not receive Him as Lord are guilty of rejecting Him. "Faith" that rejects His sovereign authority is really unbelief. Conversely, acknowledging His lordship is no more a human work than repentance.

llTim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

or faith itself
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In fact surrender to Christ is an important aspect of divinely produced saving faith, not something added to faith.

We really should be looking at it from the bible and not what is quoted by Tara Tourangeau, and other men whoever they are.

Augustine, John Calvin, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, John McAurthur, John Piper, James White, RC Sproul, Paul Washer? :tsk:

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D

:pizza: