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Here Am I 10-03-2008 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa (Post 8896)
I disagree, that once a person is saved, that he's saved forever. This is what my baptist friend tells me. He says that a person needs to go to the church, become saved. After that the person is saved, the person can go into the world, sin as much as possible, and would still end up in heaven.
I disagree with this.

I disagree with the idea that it's okay to sin, once you get saved. Jesus did say "Go and sin no more." But if you think that you can lose your salvation, tell me, how did you get it? Did you earn your salvation? Or did Jesus do the work for you?

If you worked to get saved, then you could lose your salvation. However, since Jesus did all the work, He keeps our salvation, and we cannot lose it even if we wanted to, and tried to.
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28, 29)


Quote:

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa (Post 8897)
But David , NOah or Moses did not Sin every day, did they? It was very rare that they sinned once they knew the Lord.

How do you know this? Could you cite the Scripture that leads you to believe this? :confused:

Quote:

This is what I'm saying that a Christian can sin in his life. However, the sin should not appear every day. If the sin appears every day, then we are in an addiction of some sort. If we are in an addiction, then we need to pray and ask God for freedom from the addiction.
If we sin the same sin over and over, then we need to not just ask for forgiveness and cleansing (1 John 1:9) but should ask the Lord to help us overcome it. We need to turn away from the sin.

Quote:

What I'm trying to say, is that we should not sin every single day. If we do sin, then what are different from an unsaved person?
If we do sin, when we do sin, we have an Advocate, Someone to plead our cause, and we have Someone Who not only forgives and cleanses us, but helps us overcome the sinful flesh we live in.

And we know where we're going when we die, and we know He won't let us go...ever. We belong to Him.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)


Quote:

...Also, the Christian try his best to not sin.
"Go and sin no more." Yes. I agree

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa (Post 8899)
This shows that when the disciples took the communion, all of the desciples were clean and without sin, except Judas Iscoriot. Iff the disciples sinned every five minutes, then Jesus could not say that all eleven of the disciples are clean.

They were clean, washed of their sins, by their faith. However, they, as we, pick up daily dirt on our feet, we 'sin' in little ways even if we're very good. That's why we need to ask the Lord to forgive us and to cleanse us, daily, to get the 'dirt' off our feet.

Quote:

How do you exaplain the phrase "go and sin no more" (John 5:14)
Look above. If I was not clear, ask me again. :)

Scott Simons 10-04-2008 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forrest (Post 8863)
Brother Scott, you make a good observation. The Scripture no longer calls the believer a "sinner". We are "saints", "righteous", "redeemed", "sanctified", "purified", "sanctified", "forgiven", "washed", "cleansed", and "dead to sin".

But at the same time we still do, say, and think sinful acts, unrighteousness, and ungodliness.



Isn't this what POTW is really saying? In Christ we are "perfect", "pure", "sanctified", "holy", "unblameable", and "unreprovable". Yet, I also know the daily and practical temptations, struggles, and wretchedness of my mortal life. The battle between the "flesh" and the "Spirit".

Scott, I think you and People are saying the same thing. Both aspects apply. Our position in Christ is absolutely perfect. Our daily mortal life is still plagued with sins of thought, word, and deed.

I think Romans 6, 7, and 8 deal with both sides of the issue.

We conclude then that,

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isaiah 64:6).

Peace and love, Brethren.

Forrest, thanks for noticing my point and expounding on it.
We sometime are so enmeshed with our short comings we just continue in our own view of ourselves rather that acknowledging how God see us.

God is not lying his saint are not sinners, they are washed, cleaned and filled with the Holy Ghost.

Scott Simons 10-04-2008 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway (Post 8858)
First of Scott

Thanks for that, I hope you feel better now getting that anger of your chest.





Follow after perfection, Christ is perfect follow him, strive toward perfection, not become perfect.




Now you listen very carefully here as I shall say this to you only the once.
I sin every day, I struggle with sin every day, sin almost ended my life many days when I was not right with God. The LORD JESUS CHRIST saved me from my sins, those that I had done, am doing and will do. My soul is bought and payed for, but in this mortal life sin is ever present and all around and I will stumble and I will fall, and my LORD will forgive me and I will get back on my feet and keep following the path of righteousness.

Proverbs 24:16
For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.



There is a certain hissss behind that statement and the subtle sting of venom. I do not apologies for making you sick, to claim I am saved by the Blood of Christ and I still sin.



Yes I have lied, and yes it made me a liar, and I asked my Saviour to forgive me. Yes I have got drunk, I was a drunk and yes that made me a drunk. David was a righteous man and he sinned, Moses was a righteous man and he sinned, Noah walked with God and he sinned.

Your posts are fueled with venom Scott, I don't know if you just have something against me but It sure seems that way.
As the Bible commands I will ask for another witness to back up your accusation that makes you sick.

Before you claim to be a Lair I would revaluate your strangle belief that Lairs and Drunks will enter into the Kingdom of God let alone sinners.

You never did answer if Jesus took all you sin how much do you have?

Jesus is bigger than your sin, even if you think you are such a big sinner.

I fell sorry for you, what you call me your are walking in.

~Dedicated Service
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

be healed, be transformed, God loves you

Scott Simons 10-04-2008 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa (Post 8897)
But David , NOah or Moses did not Sin every day, did they? It was very rare that they sinned once they knew the Lord.

This is what I'm saying that a Christian can sin in his life. However, the sin should not appear every day. If the sin appears every day, then we are in an addiction of some sort. If we are in an addiction, then we need to pray and ask God for freedom from the addiction.

What I'm trying to say, is that we should not sin every single day. If we do sin, then what are different from an unsaved person?

What I'm saying that a Christian can sin once in a while, because the Christian did was not on guard. But the Christian should not sin regularly. Also, the Christian try his best to not sin.

Very good points,
How about
Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
God's word is very powerful, the traditions of men make God's word of none effect.

Josh 10-04-2008 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Here Am I (Post 8915)
I disagree with the idea that it's okay to sin, once you get saved. Jesus did say "Go and sin no more." But if you think that you can lose your salvation, tell me, how did you get it? Did you earn your salvation? Or did Jesus do the work for you?

If you worked to get saved, then you could lose your salvation. However, since Jesus did all the work, He keeps our salvation, and we cannot lose it even if we wanted to, and tried to.
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28, 29)



How do you know this? Could you cite the Scripture that leads you to believe this? :confused:


If we sin the same sin over and over, then we need to not just ask for forgiveness and cleansing (1 John 1:9) but should ask the Lord to help us overcome it. We need to turn away from the sin.


If we do sin, when we do sin, we have an Advocate, Someone to plead our cause, and we have Someone Who not only forgives and cleanses us, but helps us overcome the sinful flesh we live in.

And we know where we're going when we die, and we know He won't let us go...ever. We belong to Him.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)



"Go and sin no more." Yes. I agree


They were clean, washed of their sins, by their faith. However, they, as we, pick up daily dirt on our feet, we 'sin' in little ways even if we're very good. That's why we need to ask the Lord to forgive us and to cleanse us, daily, to get the 'dirt' off our feet.


Look above. If I was not clear, ask me again. :)


Amen! It says nothing about them being "sinless" at the time. They were cleansed by Christ, through their faith in Him! Judas was not cleansed because he didn't trust Christ, he was the betrayer.

peopleoftheway 10-04-2008 08:31 AM

Scott, when I said I got drunk, that was before I was right with God. I don't go out now and get drunk.

Quote:

You never did answer if Jesus took all you sin how much do you have?

Jesus is bigger than your sin, even if you think you are such a big sinner.

I fell sorry for you, what you call me your are walking in.
Quote:

be healed, be transformed, God loves you
I have whatever sin I yield my mortal body to, my soul is bought and payed for by Christs blood on the cross, PAYED FOR!
Now let me make something very clear to you, when I say that I am a "big sinner" as you put it, I am DECLARING TO THE WHOLE WORLD that Christ saved me FROM MY SINS and I Still feel wretched in his presence as I AM NOTHING and he made me something that I am not worthy of.
Please do NOT feel sorry for me, My life IS TRANSFORMED, I KNOW God's love and BY HIS STRIPES I AM HEALED.

wwjd.usa 10-04-2008 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Here Am I (Post 8915)
[b]I disagree with the idea that it's okay to sin, once you get saved. Jesus did say "Go and sin no more."[color=teal] But if you think that you can lose your salvation, tell me, how did you get it? Did you earn your salvation? Or did Jesus do the work for you?

Please read, and answer these questions:
Ok, well what if a person come to God with a clean heart, and says "God, I'm sorry that I did bad things in the past. I want my sins forgiven, and I want to be saved"

Do God forgive that person's sins at that moment?
Is the the person saved at that moment?
If the person dies the next day, would he go to heaven, or to hell?

Then a year later, the person says to God, "God I do not wish to serve you anymore. Also, I do not want to have salvation"

Is the person saved anymore?
If the person dies the next day, would he go to Heaven or to Hell?



Throught this example, I understand, that a person can have salvation, and then lose it.

Another questions, What if a saved person sins with "the unforgiveable sin"? Is that person still saved?

wwjd.usa 10-04-2008 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Here Am I (Post 8915)
[b][color=teal]Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd.usa
But David , NOah or Moses did not Sin every day, did they? It was very rare that they sinned once they knew the Lord.

How do you know this? Could you cite the Scripture that leads you to believe this?

Well, why else would these specific sins be written in the Bible and not any other. If Noah would sin with other sins after the flood, then I'm sure that they would be mentioned.

The reason that God punished Moses, is that Moses saw the glory of God, knew God, and yet sinned. Notice that God did not punish Moses for killing, because at that time, Moses did not personally speak with God. God punished Moses when Moses knew God and sinned.

In other words, If Moses would not sin after speaking with GOD, then Moses would have entered the promise land. Since Moses did commit one sin after being so close to God, then Moses was punished, and was not able to enter the promise land.

Here Am I 10-04-2008 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa (Post 8972)
Please read, and answer these questions:

I will, to the best of my ability, but I certainly would like your input from the post in which I not only answered some of your questions, but asked for your input as well. Okay?

Quote:

Ok, well what if a person come to God with a clean heart, and says "God, I'm sorry that I did bad things in the past. I want my sins forgiven, and I want to be saved"
What do you mean 'clean heart'?

There is no prerequisite for salvation, except a willingness to admit that you are a sinner, and need the Lord to save you. It doesn't matter what horrible sins you have or have not committed, you just have to be willing to accept God's offer of salvation.


Quote:

Do God forgive that person's sins at that moment?
Is the the person saved at that moment?
If the person dies the next day, would he go to heaven, or to hell?
Yes. Yes. Heaven.

Quote:

Then a year later, the person says to God, "God I do not wish to serve you anymore. Also, I do not want to have salvation"

Is the person saved anymore?
Only God and the person know if he/she was truly saved. You and I cannot know for sure, even though we might think we can tell by their actions.

The Lord says that we are sealed unto the day of redemption when we are born again, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and have everlasting/eternal life.

No, once you are truly saved, you cannot do anything to lose it.


Quote:

If the person dies the next day, would he go to Heaven or to Hell?
If they'd been saved at some point, then they'd go to Heaven. If they just made a false profession, they'd go to Hell.

Quote:

Throught this example, I understand, that a person can have salvation, and then lose it.
Nope, there's lots of Scripture that points out that once we're saved, we remain saved. We might lose rewards for not doing the Lord's will, but He is faithful, and will never leave or forsake us.

And since we're not able to save ourselves, we're certainly not able to 'un-save' ourselves.


Quote:

Another questions, What if a saved person sins with "the unforgiveable sin"? Is that person still saved?
The only unforgiveable sin in this age is rejecting Christ. That would mean that the person is not saved, and therefore could not be 'still' saved.

Your turn. What did you think of the answers I gave you before? Do you have questions? Do you have doubts? What did you think?

wwjd.usa 10-04-2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Here Am I (Post 8915)
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28, 29)[/b]

Notice, that Jesus says "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" This says that no one will be able to steal the salvation of a peron, if the person want to be with GOd.

Keep in mind that God has given us free will. Therefore, if we are in God's hand, we have the option to stay or to leave. However, no one can forse us out of God's hand. The only way that we can leave God's hand, is if we chose to do so with our own will.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Here Am I (Post 8915)
And we know where we're going when we die, and we know He won't let us go...ever. We belong to Him. [/color]"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:21)[/b]

I agree, that from God's part, that he will never let us go. What about from Humans part?

What if a human want to stop being in God's hand? Does that mean that God will still hold the person in the hand?


They were clean, washed of their sins, by their faith. However, they, as we, pick up daily dirt on our feet, we 'sin' in little ways even if we're very good. That's why we need to ask the Lord to forgive us and to cleanse us, daily, to get the 'dirt' off our feet.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said about the temptations of Jesus. (Matthew 4:1-10)
That if a bad thought comes into your mind, and you accept the thought, then you sinned.
If a bad thought comes into your mind, and you reject the thought, then you do not sin.

According to your theory, Jesus sinned, while being in the desert, because there came bad thoughts into the head of Jesus.


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