For my family
 

"Please can you pray for my wife and I? We've not been married very long and both occasionally suffer from clinical depression."

Where was clinical depression before the advent of Psychiatry and Psychology? Where can it be found in the Scriptures?

You better check out whether what you think you are "suffering from" is true or whether there is some underlying "spiritual" problem that neither of you recognize.

Please check out these web sites: http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/mainpage.html (Martin & Deidre Bobgan, Editors) or http://www.thebereancall.org/ (Dave Hunt & T.A. Mcmahon). The Bobgans entire ministry is devoted to the perverse influence of Humanistic psychiatry and psychology in the church and individual Christian's lives. And The Berean Call has numerous articles ( at least 30 or more) on this subject.

I have listed all of the New Testament verses on the Husband-Wife relationship at: http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/ under the heading - Bible Lessons and Essays.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

I urge you to check these things out - My wife and I have been married for 47 years and the only way that a Christian marriage is going to last in these days is a willingness on the part of both husband and wife to be in subjection to the Holy Scriptures and to have a sincere hearts' desire on the part of both parties to:

Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

With a sincere hope that you both will find peace and contentment in the Lord Jesus Christ and in His holy word,

George

Good point, George.

I should have been more discerning in my use of terms; I'll check those sites you mentioned.

Thank you

Why I Eyes Ya!,

I'll pray for you buddy.

:D


Atlas

George, your answer was cold. "Clinical depression" is a worldly label. But, "cast down" is a biblical term. There are Christians who suffer from "depression" and need answers and prayer, not rebuke.

I believe George spoke the truth in love, and it seemed to be well received by W.I.E.Y. I didn't see George's words as a rebuke, but as a warning to a brother who may be in danger and needs help.

I think warnings about such dangerous things are neccessary as even pastors and churches are turning to wordly means of counselling, and "mental illnesses" seem to be flourishing as a result, even within the church.

Amen. It's one thing to treat ailments of the body with medicines. It's another thing entirely to try to treat ailments of the heart and spirit in the same way.

Here is another "cold" answer: There are 34 verses in the Bible (Swordsearcher results) with the exact term "cast down" - {Ex 7:10,12; Jos 10:11; Jg 6:28,30-31; 2Ch 25:8; Ne 6:16; Job 22:29; 41:9; Ps 36:12; 37:14,24; Ps 42:5-6,11; Ps 43:5; 56:7; Pr 7:26; Isa 28:2; Jer 6:15; 8:12; La 2:1; Eze 6:4; 19:12; Da 7:9; 8:10-12; 11:12; Mt 27:5; 2Co 4:9; 7:6; Re 12:10}. check them out - don't take my word.

Of those 34 verses the use of the words "cast down" in the vast majority of cases means (guess what?) "CAST DOWN"! i.e. something or someone is being physically "cast down. All of the verses in Bold type are real clear as to the meaning. The verses Underlined would seem to indicate that the soul (not body) can be cast down also: Psalms 42:5 Why art thou cast down, O my soul? and why art thou disquieted in me? hope thou in God: for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance. (Notice how close Psalms
42:11 & Psalms 43:5 are to 42:5). These verses in Psalms indicate that there is a "spiritual" problem going on - NOT "clinical depression" as defined by Humanist Psychiatry & Psychology.

That leaves Nehemiah 6:16 and 2Corinthians 7:6 that might be open to your "private interpretation". Nehemiah 6:16 And it came to pass, that when all our enemies heard thereof, and all the heathen that were about us saw these things, they were much cast down in their own eyes: for they perceived that this work was wrought of our God. The heathen in this verse may have had an "inferior complex" ( that is if you subscribe to the hogwash put out by Psychiatry & Psychology), but they weren't suffering from "clinical depression".

So we have arrived at the one verse (out of 34) that may come close to what Revangelist is referring to: 2 Corinthians 7:6 Nevertheless God, that comforteth those that are cast down, comforted us by the coming of Titus;. I have no problem with the idea that Christians can become sad, disappointed, and brokenhearted. Or that they can despair of even living. But this is NOT the same as "clinical depression" (as defined by Psychiatrists & Psychologists) or any of the other 450 psychiatric "excuses" now supplied to mankind for not taking personal reponsibility for their actions or for Christians for not living an "overcoming life" through the spirit (Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16, 25).

I am dead set against the psychologizing of Christianity and the perverse influence that Humanistic Psychiatry & Psychology has had on the churches of God in the last 50 years. What did Christians do before Freud? How did we ever learn to "cope" before Jung or Adler? How did we live holy lives before Maslow, Fromm, and Rogers?

The godless religion of Humanism is the very foundation of Psychiatry & Psychology - How can we suppose that it has anything of spiritual value to offer those of us who truly believe the Bible? [[Galatians 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.]

Please read "Psycho Heresy" and "The End of 'Christian' Psychology" by Martin & Deidre Bobgan; or the numerous articles and books by Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon on this subject; or "House of Cards" by Robyn M. Dawes (secular University Professor and "psychological researcher") or "Manufacturing Victims" by Dr. Tana Dineen (secular "psychological researcher").

If you want to read the unbiblical "Christian" viewpoint on this you might get some of the 70+ books by Paul Meier & Dr. Frank Minirth; or any of the books Dr. James Dobson; or Dr. Caroline Leaf; etc. etc.

The perverse influence of psychiatry & psychology on the churches in the last 50 years is incalculable. The damage that "Christian Counselling" (along psychiatric lines) has done to Christian lives is unbelievable. The destructive effect that Psychiatry & Psychology has on Bible understanding is such that most Christians (today) have no idea as to WHAT the truth is or WHERE to find it.

Today, when a person (man or woman) gets saved (born of the Spirit of God through the written word of God) they bring along a lot of "baggage" with them. And the older they are the more "baggage" they have. In the Western world most of that "baggage" is godless Humanism - taught and accepted in the home, schools, colleges, media (print, radio, television), government (executive, legislature, and especially the courts).

When we get saved we just don't deposit that "garbage" in the garbage can and we suddenly know everything there is to know about God, the church, the Bible, spiritual matters, marriage, etc. We are commanded (by God) to "study": 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Notice: we are to study "the word of truth", which simply means that if we have a "problem" in our life (ANY & ALL problems) we are to look to God and his holy words for our answers - NOT some godless "dr." or some reprobate "Christian Counsellor"! Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

In closing: Since I have been married for 47 years to a woman of another race & another culture; and since, when we were married she was seventeen years old and a Catholic (to boot!); and since, in all those 47 years, I have never seen another Christian couple who are as close as my wife and I are; and since God blessed us with 7 children (4 boys & 3 girls) - none of which ended up a drunk, a drugee, a pervert, a thief, a murderer, etc., and since God saw fit to call our oldest son "home" four years ago; I thought that I might be "qualified" to advise a Christian brother who was seeking prayer for a very serious matter (the possible deteriation of his marriage).

If my wife and I made it through "thick & thin" for 47 years (with God's help - of course!), with all of the joys and heartaches that life has to offer, we just might be able to give a young couple starting out in life some helpful "Biblical" advise - since there is no way we would have made it through all of those years without both of us subjecting ourselves to God's holy word and to His Holy Spirit.

I never liked any of the psychology categories even before I got saved and I agree with George that it's very important to keep away from them as Christians. But there is a state of mind that Christians are prone to that today we call "depression," that in the old days they called "melancholy." Perhaps the biblical "cast down" is the better choice of terminology but the condition is very real whatever we call it. The poet William Cowper continued with bouts of deep "melancholy" throughout his Christian life, that some believe may have originated with being homosexually abused as a boy at school. He wrote a veiled but emotionally charged description of an experience that strongly suggests that. He never married. The great John Newton (Amazing Grace) befriended him and shepherded him closely through many such bouts of emotional blackness, and encouraged his poetry, which glorifies the Lord in spite of it all. They put together a book of hymns, "The Olney Hymns," which included Newton's "Amazing Grace," and many by Cowper, the one that begins "There is a fountain filled with blood" and another that included the line "God moves in mysterious ways His wonders to perform."

I do not judge Christians that use psychological terms, but I do try to warn them about the "leavening" effect these Humanistic words and terms have on us.

I have a Scriptural reason why I try to avoid using psychological terms and why I try real hard not to think with psychological "reasoning". (Which is based on Humanism or the Humanistic Philosophy)

The word depression, as used by psychiatrists and psychologists, is a "catchall" word that covers many conditions - some of which may be scriptural, but it is not specific, and the way it is used by psychiatrists and psychologists it is often used as an excuse for not living for the Lord, or for bad or for even evil behavior.

I shall try to demonstrate by using some words from the Scriptures that could fall under the heading of "depression": (The numerical numbers = the number of verses found in the entire Bible - Swordsearcher Results)
Discontent (1 verse); distress (33 verses); distressed (11 verses); derision (15 verses); displeasure (5 verses); fearful (15 verses); grief (27 verses); heavy (39 verses - some); heaviness (14 verses); sad (10 verses); sadly (1 verse); sadness (1 verse); sorrow (65); sorrowful (18); travail (30 verses); troubled (68 verses); troubles (13 verses); weary (41 verses); weariness (3 verses); vex (15 verses); and vexed (22 verses).

There are more examples, but you get my point. The point is if there is something specific that is troubling a person or a husband and wife - if you "search the scriptures" you can identify the specific problem and try to deal with it (according to the scriptures, of course!).

On the other hand if we just label the problem as "depression" and go to a psychiatrist or psychologist for the solution - we are going to get a Humanistic point of view ("OPINION") that will not solve the problem (but it may make you "feel" good for awhile).

There is another "dimension" to this subject - that is spiritual in nature.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. I do not have much "discernment" in this area, but I believe a study of king Saul in the Book of 1Samuel (the entire Book) will give us an idea of what spiritual "oppression" is and a persons behavior when under it.

I hope this short explanation will give you an idea why I am so adamant in my opposition to Psychiatry and Psychology.

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,

George

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

I agreed with your answer. It was how it was given. Psychology and psychiatry aren't godly at all. I've spent quite some time trying to "undo" some of the messes "it's" caused. It's like people make pets out of their illnesses.

I've asked for prayer before and got someone getting all over me when all I wanted was prayer. So, I suppose I was reacting when I shouldn't have. So, George, I publicly apologize for the misunderstanding.

I agree completely (although I'm not completely sure "depression" is a term from psychology rather than just ordinary usage -- but for the sake of safety I'll try to stay away from it), and oddly enough I even hated those terms before I was a Christian and worked with some psychologists. I guess I was worried that you were being too hard on Why I Eyes Ya when he needs help for that spiritual condition you are talking about. Thinking about it biblically is a big part of helping him, though, I agree.

It's sometimes hard to know when it's our own sins that have brought a condition on us and when it's the devil just trying to keep us from serving the Lord. Seems to me he's working overtime these days trying to keep us blind and unprepared for what's coming.

I accept your apology, although I wasn't the least offended by what you said.

In this age of "Political Correctness" (more psychiatry & psychology) I come across as a gruff old codger. However, my wife and I have had 7 Children (all gifts from God); and we now have 16 grandchildren (all gifts from God); and 2 great grandchildren (all gifts from God) - all of which have "mellowed" me somewhat (You should have seen me 20 to 30 years ago - it's a wonder that my wife stuck with me.)

What you hadn't seen was the very gracious "private reply" that "Why I Eyes Ya" sent me, which was a real blessing to my heart.

I believe that a major part of a Christian's (all Christians) ministry should be: Reconciliation (2Corinthians 5:18) and Edification (Romans 14:19; Romans 15:2; 1Thessalonians 5:11) and if I come across as rude, crude, or "hard", it's because there is so much "false doctrine" out there; there is so much "leaven" in the churches; there are so many "Christian authorities" that are replacing our "Final Authority"; and there is so much "personal opinion" (more Humanism) amongst Christians that I sometimes may be a little bit curt or abrupt in dealing with them.

You can ask my wife (and kids & grandkids) "my bark is worse than my bite".

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,

George

First off congratulations on your marriage. My prayers for you and your wife as you start your life together. Those first few years of adjustment are... interesting. The years where you grow from "love" to commitment. The years that tend to make or break a couple. This is harder these days when the world teaches self-happiness of the individual... instead of commitment to marriage itself.

You didn't ask for advice, but I thought I'd share a couple of things. Brandon (Diligent) and I have been married almost 14 years now and we've had our mountains and valleys. I could have been labeled with "depression" a few times over the years and these are a few things that I have learned. A few things to think about.

I think when we try to medicate away the symptoms of dealing with adversity in life we fail to learn from the issues and miss out on valuable growth.

Consider how muscle growth and strength comes from pushing the muscles, breaking down, destroying and rebuilding. So it is with other things in life.

Where does our peace come from? Are we promised life be easy? Who has overcome the world? Why in today's world do WE try to overcome the world and expect life to be trouble free?

Just look at all the things Paul went through...


How did he deal with it? What did he learn through it?

I find that most issues with "depression" come from having an unrealistic view of how people THINK things should be. (Part of this is comparison to others...) And what people think they deserve/want. Another unrealistic view that seems to add to this is that God is a "genie in a bottle" granting our wishes and prayers. He promises what we NEED, "the peace of God, which passeth all understanding,".

This includes the various trials and valleys that we go through. If God is giving them to us for a reason then we need to learn from it... and grow from it...not wallow in it ... and not medicate it away. When we go through trials praising God and clinging to his word that is an example to others. Others see this and who knows maybe those others are the part of the reason you were blessed with this trial.

Thankyou
 

Dear friends,

I just wanted to say a heart-felt 'thankyou' for all your prayers and advice. I also want to apologize to any whom I may have caused to stumble by using the terms 'clinical depression', etc. I now realize (thanks to George and others) that there was indeed a spiritual aspect to what was happening... something I hadn't even considered or had been too proud to admit.

Without going into too much detail, my wife and I are having regular meetings with the local minister who married us. As he and his wife know both of us, we've had some valuable insight into the major cause of our troubles. We now are in a position to move forward and, with God's grace and His word, things are coming together. Slowly, but surely.

I'm learning a lot through these circumstances, and even non-Christian workmates have noticed God's calm in the midst of the storm.

So what else can I say but thankyou all, and thanks and praise the the Lord Jesus Christ for His guidance, faithfulness, and "peace which passeth all understanding" at this time.
May I continue to learn and His name be glorified!

Thank you,

Rob (W.I.E.Y) :)

Praise God!! And thanks for the update.

It's a learning/growth experience and I think your testimony is to the Lord's glory!

I'm still praying, and thanks again for sharing it with us.

May God bless you and your wife brother. I would encourage you to always:
Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

George

Rob, you have received wonderful, Biblical encouragement/edification from George, Diligent and JaeBird. Praise the Lord for brothers and sisters in Christ!! They are correct, "depression" is a spiritual, (or lack of spirit) matter.

I would also like to encourage you. I'm so happy to hear you are receiving your counseling from your Pastor and not the world.

I once was in a miserable marriage, (not saying yours is miserable). My husband was not saved and of course an unequally yoked marriage is miserable. Although, I was saved, I also was dealing with spiritual matters and I was not honoring my husband. The way I was acting, I would never have been able to win him over. I was also on a power trip as many women are in these times. My husband was pretty much checked out and I made the decision to move from an emergent Church into a Fundamental Independent Baptist Church. My husband fought this decision at first, but was won over by the loving-truth telling congregation, especially our two wonderful Pastors.

The older women of the Church worked with me and really helped along with God's Word to get me on the right track. I started to respect my husband, no matter how he treated me. My husband eventually surrendered his will and the Lord saved him. Praise be to God!! I now have the marriage I only dreamed about. Not perfect... We now are looking to scripture to learn our roles and treat each other the way God has intended. We receive regular counseling sessions with our Pastor and his wife. They still need to straighten us out from time to time. Especially me... It has been hard to shake my independence and stubbornness!!

When we treat our spouses as God intended, this is showing our obedience to God. We honor God with our service to Him.