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Luke	06-22-2009 05:41 PM

Aha :) Exactly Brother

I understand MJS is not KJBO, and often uses some strange translation of the Bible (WEY), in which case I just open up the KJB to see if he is correct in his exegesis.

The phrase "die to self" is not a biblical phrase I admit. Honestly, I only used it because it is what someone called this truth many years ago, when I should have actually listened, and accepted the fact I was dead to sin, and it would have saved me several years of heartache.

CKG	06-22-2009 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 22559)

I read the "Green Letters" series back in the 80's and Stanford (now the late Miles Stanford) lays out some good principles for spiritual growth. If you visit his site you will see he is also a dispensationalist and there are some good articles there. What you have to watch out for are statements like this:

Our authoritative Bible is the only means in the universe by which we can ever know anything rightly and personally of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. - The Complete Green Letters, pg 187

Sounds good.

Sad to say, the problem of faulty reckoning in this instance, due to a wrong interpretation, is mainly caused by an inferior translation in our beloved King James Version. - The Complete Green Letters, pg 203

The King James Version's use of "destroyed" in verse 6 is far too strong for that particular Greek word.

Our King James Version has a tendency to lead one astray in the area of reckoning because of its failure to set forth our death with Christ in the past tense.

The new American Standard Bible, which is more accurate for study purposes, gives us the contrasting correction.
- The Complete Green Letters, pg 204

This is another instance where the King James Version might lead us into bondage, unless we study with care. (referencing Romans 8:1)
- The Complete Green Letters, pg 211

In Romans 8:6 we must again take a close look at our King James Version: "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." This particular translation runs counter to the actual teaching of the Word.

Once more the New American Standard Bible states the truth accurately....
- The Complete Green Letters, pg 213

So you have to exercise caution.

Luke	06-22-2009 07:46 PM

I know.. it is a shame that he takes that path. However, the amount of meat in that book far outweighs the bad

CKG	06-22-2009 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 22564)

I know.. it is a shame that he takes that path. However, the amount of meat in that book far outweighs the bad

Yes, I still enjoy reading his material. Like you said he presents some often overlooked principles for spiritual growth, plus he was dispensational and hard on the reformed theology.

Luke	06-22-2009 08:33 PM

He is also a "sovereign gracer", but saw the fallacies in the Reformed position, and never let his doctrines of "grace" get in the way of the gospel, which is only believe.

biblereader

06-23-2009 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 22546)

Of course I do. Because I still struggle with the old nature. Jesus said take up the cross DAILY. But I never said temptations. I said struggling to keep the law.

You are not understanding me completely. Romans 6 tells us how to deal with sin in our lives. We are not to fight sin with carnal weapons, like the flesh, or even attempt to keep the law to subdue our flesh. We simply identify with our Saviour on the cross. Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ. Romans 8 goes on to tell us the consequences of living after the flesh, and the blessings of being in the spirit.

A Christian does not have to sin. Sinning in a Christians life is a failure to identify himself as DEAD to sin.

This has nothing to do with dispensationalism. It's the Bible way, but most reformed and arminians ignore it, because they run to verses like Jeremiah 33:31 and Ezekial 36:27 to support their claims that God enables the christian to keep the law, when there isn't a christian 100 chapters either side of those verses. A Christian does not need to keep the law. He doesn't need to try. He just needs to daily reckon himself dead to sin, and see that his life was bore away on the cross of calvary in Christ, and that his life is not his own anymore, but Christ's life (Col 3:4 - when Christ, who IS OUR LIFE...)

I have never said and will never say that a Christian can attain sinless perfection. But a Christian does not need to sin. But he will, because he is in the flesh, and there will be times when instead of relying on Christ, he will rely on self.

There are two books I recommend on this subject.

Watchman Nee's "Sit, Walk, Stand"
&
Miles J. Stanford's "The Green Letters"

The latter you can read here http://withchrist.org/MJS/glchapters.htm

Thanks. I like books.

biblereader

06-23-2009 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKG (Post 22557)

Being dead to sin is an accomplished fact, but there is still a growing process we must go through.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Thank you for your excellent explanation. THIS is what I was trying to say.
I'm dead to sin, but it is a growing process we must go through.
That's why Jesus says some saved people are still taking milk, when they should be taking meat, because they've stopped choosing to grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus.

Do you know that the vast majority of people in churches have NO IDEA what the bible says? It SEEMS like all they do, is listen to some namby pamby pastor say God is love, love, love, and no matter what you do, it's ok, because God is love.
People get very angry when I talk about what the bible says about who wont get into heaven.

biblereader

06-23-2009 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 22568)

He is also a "sovereign gracer", but saw the fallacies in the Reformed position, and never let his doctrines of "grace" get in the way of the gospel, which is only believe.

Would you please break this down, into simple layman's terms?
What are u talking about?

biblereader

06-23-2009 03:16 PM

OK, Luke, and just about anyone else, since you say this was written ONLY to the Hebrews, and not to me, or any Gentile Christian, this is saying that ONLY the Hebrews can fall away from salvation?

12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13: But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14: For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.[/QUOTE]

Luke	06-23-2009 04:52 PM

Maybe I didn't make it clear...

It's a Jewish book written to Jewish people about a Jewish King that is better than Jewish sacrifices, and this is the part I may have forgot, it applies doctrinally during the Jewish dispensation of Jacob's (Israel) Trouble (The Tribulation).

So anyone living in the tribulation can lose their salvation (taking the mark of the beast, worshipping the beast etc).

The second verse is from II Peter I think, and once again, it says Dog, not Sheep. Dogs are unsaved people. And since it doctrinally applies to the tribulation, it is an unsaved gentile.

biblereader

06-29-2009 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 22634)

So, are you saying that Gentiles have no use or need of the book of Hebrews?

And, if so, what other books of the bible are not for Gentiles? I've never heard of anyone saying certain books of the bible are not useful or needed by Gentiles.
Who taught you that?
I'm reading Gipps bible history, and it sounds like what you're saying is, we common lay people might not know the REAL story about the bible.

You're obviously not a calvinist. But, you believe people can become unsaved.
Why?

biblereader

06-30-2009 06:10 AM

Oh, well. Thanks for your answers so far.

Luke	07-01-2009 04:30 PM

Noone can lose this salvation in this dispensation of God. During the next dispensation, the tribulation, God's is dealing with the Jews, and they will be able to lose their salvation.

biblereader

07-01-2009 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 23090)

Noone can lose this salvation in this dispensation of God. During the next dispensation, the tribulation, God's is dealing with the Jews, and they will be able to lose their salvation.

Where does it say that, in the bible? How can someone NOT lose their salvation now, but lose it later? It doesn't sound right to my uneducated ears.

chette777

07-01-2009 11:46 PM

Luke,

I think I said it before, I am called a Calvinist by my Charismatic and Pentecostal friends and I am called Arminian by my Baptist friends (who hold to Calvinism). My friends that are Baptist or non-denominational who rightly divide we are called Bible Believers.

it is always the nature of men to place people into categories rather then look at them as brothers and sisters in the Lord and to exercise charity. We will be found in one of two places either a strong brother who is not to despise the weak or a weaker brother who is not to judge the stronger.

Tmonk

07-02-2009 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biblereader (Post 22995)

The first verse of the Book of James goes :

James 1:1

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The book is meant literally for Jews, but Gentiles can learn greatly from it. But James is a subject on its own.

"But, you believe people can become unsaved."

I have heard you can renounce your Faith, but I haven't found anything to support that.

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