Spiritual Death?
 

"Spiritual Death" is an often used term, but what is it?

Well New Agers might mean something entirely different, but I believe a Christian would say that in reference to either Adam's fall or in reference to burning in the Lake of Fire for eternity, which is the second death:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6 KJV)

Peace and Love,
Stephen

It might mean the death of the human spirit, becoming lifeless, or it might mean the human spirit being 'dead to' something, like we are "dead to sin" in Romans 6:2 & 1 Peter 2:24.

I used to believe that the human spirit literally died when a man became accountable for his sin before God, but now I'm not so sure...

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

As Bro. George pointed out in another thread, the human spirit looks like it is our life-force, so if it literally died then our body would die too.

All the un-saved are considered spiritually dead. This verse from the Prodigal Son also seem to reinforce that.
Although it is used most of the time for a backslider, I have often questioned the reality, that this proverb represents the backslidden. Or just the wayward soul of the unsaved.

Lu:15:32: It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Re: " Spiritual Death?"
 

Aloha CKG,

The term "Spiritual Death" or "spiritually dead" is NOT found in the Scriptures. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it might possibly be true, but we should be mighty cautious using the term if it cannot be supported by "the Scripture of truth".

I do not believe that it is possible for man's spirit to die (like our body dies).

Please Consider:

The Bible clearly testifies to the existence of spirits and distinguishes between God’s Holy Spirit; evil spirits; and man's "spirit":
[Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.]

According to the Bible there also is a "spirit" within beasts, but the Scriptures distinguish between the spirit within man and an animal’s spirit.
[Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?]

The Scriptures are real clear about the state of our body without the "spirit":
[James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.]

The Bible also clearly testifies that when a man dies, the spirit does NOT die with the body, but returns to God (Who gave it).
[Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.]

The word “spirit” (pertaining only to mankind – and excluding God’s Spirit or evil spirits, etc.) is mentioned approximately 144 times in 134 Verses in the Holy Bible. To accurately describe something that we cannot see, but accept by faith in the Scriptures, is extremely difficult. Webster’s Dictionary of 1828 is not that much help here either, because of Noah Webster's difficulty distinguishing between the soul and spirit.

The following is the definition (that I have derived from Scripture) of man's "spirit".

The word “spirit” (pertaining only to mankind) is used almost exclusively in the Bible in describing the ‘life force’ that resides within a man or woman. The “life” within man is manifested in energy, power, activity, etc. (James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.)

It is quite clear from the testimony of Scripture that our (all of mankind) spirit [“life”] emanates from the Lord God of the Bible. [Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.] Man’s spirit is given [by God] to men and women (WHEN is in dispute), and at the moment of death that spirit returns unto God [who gave it]. God gave us our “life”, He has every right to take it back whenever it pleases Him Job 1:21. [Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.]

There is a clear connection between the breath that is in man and his spirit.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust (body) of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath (spirit) of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spiritbreath; and his

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

From the moment of birth until death our life is in his hands. We have no power either to retain that life or to prevent our death. [Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.] Only one man has ever had that "power" - the Lord Jesus Christ!

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

A person who is born again (born of God) and who is a son of God, has perfect assurance that, because the Lord Jesus Christ had that power and is alive today, we also (someday) will live with Him in eternity! Hallelujah!
[John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.]

IF there is such a thing as "spiritual death", it must have something to do with being "dead" unto God, or some such thing. But one thing's for sure, if a person is alive, their "spirit" is NOT dead - NOT like our body dies at death.

QUESTION: How can anything that emanates from God, the source of ALL LIFE - DIE or be DEAD?

If you care to, you can check out all the verses in the Holy Bible with man's spirit in them. {I have separated out the "Spirit" of God and evil "spirits"}

OLD TESTAMENT {Man's "spirit" Only}

Genesis 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
Genesis 45:27 And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived:
Exodus 6:9 And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel: but they hearkened not unto Moses for anguish of spirit, and for cruel bondage.
Exodus 35:21 And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD'S offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.
Deuteronomy 2:30 But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day.
Joshua 5:1 And it came to pass, when all the kings of the Amorites, which were on the side of Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard that the LORD had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel, until we were passed over, that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more, because of the children of Israel.
Judges 15:19 But God clave an hollow place that was in the jaw, and there came water thereout; and when he had drunk, his spirit came again, and he revived: wherefore he called the name thereof Enhakkore, which is in Lehi unto this day.
1Samuel 1:15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
1Samuel 30:12 And they gave him a piece of a cake of figs, and two clusters of raisins: and when he had eaten, his spirit came again to him: for he had eaten no bread, nor drunk any water, three days and three nights.
1Kings 10:5 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel, and his cupbearers, and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the LORD; there was no more spirit in her.
1Kings21:5 But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?
2Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
2Kings 2:15 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.
1Chronicles 5:26 And the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul king of Assyria, and the spirit of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away, even the Reubenites, and the Gadites, and the half tribe of Manasseh, and brought them unto Halah, and Habor, and Hara, and to the river Gozan, unto this day.
2Chronicles 9:4 And the meat of his table, and the sitting of his servants, and the attendance of his ministers, and their apparel; his cupbearers also, and their apparel; and his ascent by which he went up into the house of the LORD; there was no more spirit in her.
Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job 10:12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
Job 15:13 That thou turnest thy spirit against God, and lettest such words go out of thy mouth?
Job 20:3 I have heard the check of my reproach, and the spirit of my understanding causeth me to answer.
Job 21:4 As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?
Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Job 32:18 For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
Psalms 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
Psalms 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psalms 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalms 77:3 I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah.
Psalms 77:6 I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.
Psalms 142:3 When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.
Psalms 143:4 Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate.
Psalms 143:7 Hear me speedily, O LORD: my spirit faileth: hide not thy face from me, lest I be like unto them that go down into the pit.
Proverbs 11:13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter.
Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
Proverbs 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.
Proverbs 15:13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.
Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Proverbs 16:32 He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and hethat ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.
Proverbs 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
Proverbs 17:27 He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.
Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?
Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Proverbs 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
Proverbs 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Ecclesiastes 1:14 I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 1:17 And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 2:11 Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all was vanity and vexation of spirit, and there was no profit under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 2:17 Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought under the sun is grievous unto me: for all is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 2:26 For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ecclesiastes 4:4 Again, I considered all travail, and every right work, that for this a man is envied of his neighbour. This is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 4:6 Better is an handful with quietness, than both the hands full with travail and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 4:16 There is no end of all the people, even of all that have been before them: they also that come after shall not rejoice in him. Surely this also is vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 6:9 Better is the sight of the eyes than the wandering of the desire: this is also vanity and vexation of spirit.
Ecclesiastes 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
Ecclesiastes 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.
Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Ecclesiastes 10:4 If the spirit of the ruler rise up against thee, leave not thy place; for yielding pacifieth great offences.
Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live.
Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Isaiah 54:6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Isaiah 65:14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, thatfollow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 21:7 And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Daniel 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
Daniel 2:3 And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream.
Daniel 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
Haggai 1:14 And the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and the spirit of all the remnant of the people; and they came and did work in the house of the LORD of hosts, their God,
Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Malachi 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
Malachi 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously. of my

NEW TESTAMENT {Man's "spirit" Only}

Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Luke 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
Acts 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.
Acts 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Acts 19:21 After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.
Acts 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Romans 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
1Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
1Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
1Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Corinthians 16:18 For they have refreshed my spirit and yours: therefore acknowledge ye them that are such.
2Corinthians 2:13 I had no rest in my spirit, because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.
2Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2Corinthians 7:13 Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all.
2Corinthians 12:18 I desired Titus, and with him I sent a brother. Did Titus make a gain of you? walked we not in the same spirit? walked we not in the same steps?
Galatians 6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. <<To the Galatians written from Rome.>>
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
2Timothy 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen. <<The second epistle unto Timotheus, ordained the first bishop of the church of the Ephesians, was written from Rome, when Paul was brought before Nero the second time.>>
Philemon 1:25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. <<Written from Rome to Philemon, by Onesimus a servant.>>
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
1Peter 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

This is the only way to study the Bible that I know of. I want to know ALL of what God has to say on a matter and then after obtaining as much knowledge about a matter, I ask God for DISCERNMENT, UNDERSTANDING, and WISDOM.

My God grant those things to you in your study of His Holy word.

You can't consider Spiritual Death, the same as physical death. The Spirit and Soul are eternal, they came from God who is Eternal. As God said to Adam, the day you partake of the fruit of the tree of Good and Evil you will surly die.

When Adam ate the fruit, his Spirit and Soul became the enemy of God, and as far as it was concerned Adam was dead. So spiritual death is separation from God by sin, Christ sacrificed himself for that sin. And restores the Spirit and Soul to life, in those who believe.

Re: " Spiritual Death?"
 

Aloha Samuel,

Could you provide me with some Scripture to support your opinion? We can "speculate" and "hypothesize" all day long as to what we "think" spiritual death means, but we need Scripture to settle all matters of faith and practice.

That is one reason why I Posted all of the verses (that I could find) on the matter. Perhaps someone else with more discernment, understanding, and wisdom than I, can come up with a SCRIPTURAL DEFINITION OF "spiritual death" or "spiritually dead".

Look up the phrase "spiritual body", I have heard all kinds of definitions for the term, i.e. the church is a "spiritual body"; a Christian has a "spiritual body", etc. But when I checked the Scriptures I found that the phrase is used ONLY ONCE in the entire Bible:

[1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.]

The Holy Scriptures defined WHAT a "spiritual body" is = The Resurrection Body of a child of God. It is not the church; and it is not a Christian (Pre-Resurrection). I care not what anybody may think or say a "spiritual body" is, the Scriptures defined it for me - perfectly.

The same goes for "spiritual death" or "spiritually dead". I want (need) a Bible definition of the term - all else is speculation and private interpretation.

I would rather be ignorant, or not understand a spiritual matter, than try to make it "fit" my concept of what it should be. I don't have to understand everything - if I don't "get it", I let it lay until God reveals to me (from His Holy word) the truth of the matter, and if He doesn't, I just let it be. :)

I find many things people say, not directly stated in the scriptures. Some things they say, come into direct conflict in fact.

When asked to explain something, we have to try to do so, while staying within the confines of what scripture may not directly say, but intimates.

As for the other, there was a Preacher that lived here by the name of Charles Harris. If you asked him a question scripture did not directly speak on, he would not give you any answer.

In the end I don't know which is best, as far as the questioner is concerned. By giving a reasonable answer, at least you give him the opportunity the Bereans had. Maybe he will go to seek the for the correct answer for himself, and in the end learn something.

If I feel I don't have at least some justification from Scripture for an answer, I will give none either. Any I do give is from the man, not to be considered a word from God.

I copied this from the "Concise Evangelical Dictionary of Theology". It in a sense says the same thing I did.

In the NT, which focuses on a crucified and resurrected Lord, death is a power dominating the present life of the individual, not just something that happens at the end of life. People live in separation from God, a Spiritual Death; estrangement from God is the common factor in all natural human life (life according to the flesh, Romans 8:6 - 1 John 3:14). Sin and its resulting death lives within the person despite Gods law (Rom. 7:9 - 1 Cor. 15:56 - James 1:5)

It goes on to explain the source of sin, which we all know so I did not copy all that.

The concept of being "spiritually dead" is derived from Ephesians 2 and 5:14. It may not be a phrase from the Bible, but when you read:

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from
death unto life.

1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Something of an unsaved man crosses from death to life. It's obviously not the body.

This is past tense, not a future resurrection:

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Here's one to chew on:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

It's also interesting to me that Paul says that the unsaved do not have the life of God.

Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

The "life of God" is spirit:

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Also, not all men's spirits go back to God after death. Else this would be error:

1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

What were the spirits doing in prison (in the earth)? Not sure where this fits but it's there somewhere. Perhaps the "upward" movement of the spirit was yet to come for them.

I'm going to opine along the lines of Samuel. God said:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

What happened in the Day that he ate the fruit? Adam didn't die physically.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he DROVE out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


It seemed Adam enjoyed perfect communion with God until the sin.

It seems to me that spiritual death is the separation.
Good discussion..

In Christ!

Very good point. Why else would we need Christ?

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Aloha Samuel,

I mean no offense brother, but there is far too much speculation, personal opinion, and private interpretation going on in Christianity today and far too little Scripture.

Acts 5:20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.

1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.

As far as the Bereans are concerned they searched the Scriptures daily, they weren't concerned with the opinions of men:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

They received "the word" (God's word - NOT the words of men) and searched the Scriptures. There is far too little of either one of these things going on in Christian circles today.

Throughout the U.S.A., Christians (of all stripes) are following men - famous men; popular men; learned men; influential men; etc. We are not supposed to be following men, we are supposed to be following the Lord Jesus Christ according to His Holy word - NOT the dictates of our conscience.

We are commanded to study the word of truth, [2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.] not so we can speak to people about what we "think", but so we can know God's word well enough so we can answer people with the "words of life", not our speculations and/or opinions.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Those "answers" should be from the Scriptures - not what we "think" might be appropriate to get them to thinking.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

The Holy Spirit uses the word of God to convict and convince people of God's truth - not the words of man's wisdom.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

And WHAT is "TRUTH"?

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

God doesn't "sanctify" people with our words (no matter how well thought out they may be) - He "sanctifies" them with His Holy words!

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Christians should be concerned about giving people God's words - not our "opinions", in hopes that they will meditate on them, and possibly search out the truth. {Of course that means we have to study His words, and hide them in our heart, so we can know what to say to people from the Book of Life and not what we "think" may be helpful.}

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

According to the Scriptures: ALL of God's WORKS are DONE IN TRUTH - that is according to His Holy word; The word of God is RIGHT; the word of God is QUICK and POWERFUL; and God has MAGNIFIED HIS WORD ABOVE HIS NAME!

WHY would Christians try to use their own words in the place of His words? Are our words equal to God's words? Should we "substitute" our "opinions", "speculations", or "private interpretations" for the Holy words of God? I trow not!

It's real easy to "speculate" about spiritual matters - we can just say whatever comes to our mind. But to search the Holy Scriptures to find the out the mind of God on a spiritual issue - that's work, that's another matter altogether. And most Christians today would prefer to continue on with their personal "opinions", rather than study God's word to see what God has to say about spiritual matters.

Like I said before, IF you can find the definition of "spiritual death" or "spiritually dead" from the list of Scriptures I supplied, I would be real happy to hear it. I've done all the "searching" - all you have to do is read the verses that I have collated, or search out any other verses that might come to mind, and come up with a "Scriptural" definition.

However, if all you have to offer is your personal opinion and/or speculations, well I can do that also - not that my personal opinions or speculations on spiritual issues is worth a hill of beans.

I want to know the truth; the whole Truth; and NOTHING but the Truth. That's all that matters to God, and that's good enough for me. :)

Re: "Spiritual Death?"
 

Aloha brother JOHN G,

Your statement: "It seems to me that spiritual death is the separation." seems reasonable, and you may be right.

The problem I have is for over 40 + years I was taught that Adam's "spirit" DIED the day he ate of the fruit. And I accepted that explanation until I did my study on the heart of man; and in the course of that study I had to examine all of man's attributes and discovered that there are NO Scriptures that SAY that man's "spirit" died, dies, or experiences death (NOT like man experiences physical death).

Consequently I have tried, to understand (from Scripture) what "spiritual death" is - if the "spirit" (NOT the Holy Spirit) in mankind does not, or cannot "DIE", then "spiritual death" is NOT like physical death, because I can find no verses that say a spirit (that comes from God) DIES. {And I haven't even mentioned "EVIL SPIRITS" - that seemingly do not, or cannot DIE either!}

This whole discourse is deeper than most Christians are willing to admit. Bible issues that must be spiritually discerned are not always easy; and, in the end, we may not be able to come to a full understanding of a particular matter. But what I refuse to do, is to do what the men that taught me for all those years. I refuse to teach something as "Truth", if I cannot PROVE it from the Scriptures. And I hesitate to speculate, because I could be wrong. :confused:

That's my whole point, we have to be real careful with what we say or teach, if the Scriptures are not real clear on an issue; or if we lack the discernment, understanding, and wisdom to "get it"; or if God just isn't showing us. :)

Literally there is no verse in the Bible that even uses the term Spiritual death. and the term that supports George's statements is James where he says Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, . . . and if the souls of men whose torment arises before the throne of God for ever is a pretty clear example that those people are alive in the lake of fire and not dead.

Does anyone who teaches that the unregenerate are "spiritually dead" don't actually have a spirit?

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I am curious what died in Adam in the day his sinned if it was not his spirit. I'm not being dogmatic about it, but something did and based on Eph 2 (and others) we know something of man is walking around "dead" before regeneration.

"Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;"

Two things about this verse. It doesn't say anything about a person's birth condition (i.e. the saying that we are born spiritually dead) and it doesn't say anything about a person's spirit. It says YOU (not your spirit) were dead, not because of a birth condition, but YOU were dead in trespasses and sins. It was your trespasses and sins that caused you to enter this state of being dead. In Romans 7 Paul said he was alive once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died. I believe a person is born separated from God but must reach an age of accountability before they are held accountable for their sins. Once a person reaches that point of understanding right and wrong or good and evil they are now accountable and become dead in their trespasses and sins. Their sin and their knowledge of sin has condemned them; unless they get saved.

I would suggest that there was a physical death following Adam's (and Eve's) sin. God, in His mercy, and as a picture of salvation, slew an animal to cover Adam's sin. Nothing changed in Adam's constitution (body, soul and spirit) after his sin. If he had obeyed God he could have stayed in the Garden, but because of his sin he was cast out and no longer had access to the tree of life; therefore he was now subject to death.

I would also suggest you look up spirit in the Old Testament and you will see folks before the cross, before there was a new birth, had a spirit.

Good discussion. I don't know that I have the answers as much as I dofuel for the discussion.

Re: "Spiritual Death?"
 

Aloha Brandon,

This is the problem we have when there is either so little Scripture to go on or our discernment and understanding are limited.

You raise an interesting point, for which I have no definitive Scriptural answer.

Your quote:
Let's look at the context of 1 Peter 3:19, and then the context of WHO and WHEN Peter was speaking of.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In the context Peter was speaking about "the days of Noah", and specifically about the people living in those days prior to the Flood.

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also isflesh : yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The "spirits" in prison spoken of here are specifically the "spirits" of those (?) who lived before the Flood.

Which leads to the following questions:

#1. Are those "spirits" in prison ALL of the people who died before (and during) the Flood?

#2. Are those "spirits" in prison only the Men of Renown (the Giants), the hybrid offspring of "the sons of God and the daughters of men"?

Or:

#3. Are those "spirits" in prison only "the sons of God (Angels?) who came into the daughters of men"?

[Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.]

And then again:

#4. WHERE is the "prison" spoken of located?

This is what I mean when I wrote about speculating about the word of God. There is so little information, and when it comes to spiritual discernment, we know so little.

The Scriptures indicate that the "spirits" of all men (and women) born after the Flood return to God. Taking into account the preceding Scriptures, I believe that the same was true of all ordinary men (and women) before the Flood also.

Since there are so few Scriptures dealing with this issue ("the spirits in prison") it is difficult to say with finality that those "spirits in prison" are the "Angels which kept not their first estate", but from the Scriptural record, it would seem that that's who they are.

I dislike speculating about Scripture. There are spiritual matters that we have so little idea about that it should humble us all. For example:

The whole Chapter 10 of the Book of Daniel (Spiritual warfare between God and Satan).

And what about the "Cherubims"; the "Seraphims"; the "Four Beasts" ("in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne" of God); the Angels (and their hierarchy); etc.

And then we have those verses about spiritual warfare that are directed at us (Christians), that so few of us have so little idea about:

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Today (especially in the Western world) most Christians think that the Christian life is all about being "entertained"; or having "a good time"; or about God blessing us with "material wealth & goods". But according to the Scriptures, we are in a "WAR". I don't understand it all - I just thank God that I am, at least, aware of these things.

I'm looking forward to the day when my Saviour will clear up all of these issues [1Corinthians 13:9-12]. Until then, I will continue to study the word of truth; believing God for all of it - even if I don't fully understand it all. :)

This is <currently> speculation on my part, but I'm thinking the whole idea of spiritual death has its roots in Augustinianism, better known to us as Calvinism, and their erroneous ideas of original sin and total depravity.

If the second death (Rev. 2:11, 20:6, 20:14, 21:8) is eternal separation from God into a lake of fire and brimstone, is the first death the separation (temporal depending on belief) from GOD the DAY Adam sinned (Gen 2:17)? (Cross reference) 1Cor. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

CKG, I think it is a defense against the T and I of the TULIP.

Thanks for the discussion

I agree that spiritual death means separation. When Adam sinned, he did not physically die that very day. But he was separated from God.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

So Adam and Eve's sin separated them from God. Their fig leaves were not good enough to restore fellowship, God had to kill an innocent animal and make skins to restore fellowship or bring them back together again.

And even the story of the prodigal son is a story of separation and reunion.

Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

As long as the prodigal son was in sin he was lost and dead. But when he returned he was again with his father and alive.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These are the lost. They are without, they are separated from God.

Compare to the saved:

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I don't think the idea of "Spiritual Death", has anything to do with TULIP.
Take the last verse in the Prodigal Son. The son left the Fathers house, and his sinful lifestyle had separated him from his father. As we see, the Father considered his son to be dead, but his return restored his life.

Luke:15:32: It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Here are two more verses.

Eph:2:1: And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.

The word dead is used many times over, to indicate the Spiritual condition of sinful man. Since it is not possible one should walk around Physically dead, the term Dead must point to something else.
What other way could you elplain it, other than to say man in his sins is spiritually dead toward God. And when he repents, and comes to Christ he is given a new Spirit (in Christ), and is alive again.

The Scripture says Adam was created a living Soul, but when he sinned, he died. God does not lie, so when he told Adam he would surly die, he meant it. Adam did not fall dead physically, but from that time on Death had dominion over him.
I could go on, and explain how God restored Adam to life. But that would be another contention. All things in Scripture, are not always written in black and white. We have to read what God has to say on the matter, then wait for his explanation. If you are patient it will come, if not you may never know!.

If you go on trying to figure it out for yourself, you resist the Spirits revelation, you are fighting with God, and you will never win. For me its time to move on, I have come to a close on this subject. :)

Again, separation

Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.

Here's my understanding...
 

Perhaps the answer to the question: “What is spiritual death?” can best be addressed by asking what spiritual life is. We all know that prior to receiving Christ we were without the Holy Spirit. That is clear. I think we all understand in our “lost” condition the Holy Spirit was not dwelling in us. We were not “spiritual” but “natural” according to Scripture.

But the moment we believed and received the Lord Jesus Christ we were born again and we became spiritual because the Holy Spirit was now in us. In this sense we have been reborn…spiritually. I think this is where the phrases “spiritually alive/spiritually dead” come from.

It goes without saying we were certainly not born again physically (entering into our mother’s womb for the second time). I’ve always understood my rebirth is a "spiritual" rebirth. In this sense, prior to receiving Christ we were dead…spiritually, but after receiving Him we were alive…spiritually.

I see it this way:

No Holy Spirit = spiritually dead.
Indwelt with the Holy Spirit = spiritually alive.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

In my understanding, there is a clear distinction made between the “spiritual” man and the “natural” man in this passage. The natural man is not alive spiritually because the Holy Spirit is not in him. I have always believed that if a person is not alive spiritually by receiving the Lord Jesus Christ, he is dead spiritually…he must be born again.

By comparing Scripture with Scripture we see this thread of truth. I think some of us simply use the term “spiritually dead” to describe a person who has no life in Christ. Nothing more and nothing less. I’m in agreement with Brother George that the “spirit” of man is not dead; otherwise the body would be also. But I personally believe that man without Christ is “spiritually” dead because the Spirit of God is not living in him.

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

While I am quite sure of many things about the spirit explained in the Bible, true understanding of "the way of the spirit," and how God makes all these things, is likely beyond our earthly comprehension.

A couple more verses to throw into the hat for thought. Here "the soul" dies.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

I read God's Word(I have no problem capitalizing His written "Word"), and am always humbled at what it truly is, God's Word. The Great Equalizer.
George has done a great job showing some distinctions in the different attributes of man (on TULIP thread), but when we demand a definitive answer on some things, we are always left wanting. There are distinctions in our attributes, but they are also inextricably linked. The Bible is full of seeming paradoxes, but that the true believer can accept them by faith is how He would have it (cf. John 4:24, I Thes 2:13, Heb 11:6). It's God's Word, and I believe it!

1 Corinthians 8:2-3 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

What I do know is the unsaved will experience complete separation from God, and that is a sobering thought that should give us impetus to reach the lost.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

These many verses the brethren have contributed will help me think on these things as I study. Thanks.

Yes, the statement above is true, but I am also reminded that the unbeliever is condemned right now. URGENT! Better believe in and receive Christ before it's too late. :nod:

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, ……….. (James 2:26)

I guess the thing that makes me scratch my head is that “spiritual death” is such a frequently used term yet no one really explains (maybe because they don’t know) exactly what it is.

Does it mean the human spirit died? The following verses are in the OT, before men experience the new birth.

Genesis 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
1 Kings 21:5 But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?
Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul
Job 21:4 As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding
Psalm 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise
Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?
Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Ecclesiastes 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.
Daniel 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
Daniel 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him

As previously stated Ephesians 2:1 and 5 say nothing about your spirit

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Ephesians 2:1)
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) (Ephesians 2:5)

Is “spiritual death” separation from God? Then why not just say “separated from God”.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. (Isaiah 59:2)

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (Revelation 20:14)

If Revelation 20:14 is talking about the second death, then what is the first death? Obviously it must be death as we normally think of it; physical. If something as dramatic as the human spirit dying had occurred it would be pointed out somewhere in Scripture and then Revelation 20:14 would be talking about the third death.

I still maintain that the term “spiritual death” is rooted in Calvinistic theology. According to their theology because a person is spiritually dead they can’t believe the gospel unless they are first born again after which they then can believe. The problem is if a person is born spiritually dead with a “sin nature” how can they be held accountable for their sins? It doesn’t square with Scripture.

Personally I never use the term “spiritual death” or “spiritually dead” anymore. Now I know we use the word “rapture” which is not found in Scripture, but at least it is clearly taught (1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4). The terms “spiritual death” or “spiritually dead” aren’t used in Scripture and no such occurrence is taught.

I guess the old saying is correct. If something is repeated often enough people will believe it is true.

I can't wait!
 

Interesting discussion...

Based on God's Word, it seems that what happened TO Adam was much more concrete than what happened IN Adam. I think we can really only speculate what happened IN Adam, but God said IN THE DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Gen 2:17). Of course God cannot lie (Titus 1:2, Heb. 6:18), so something happened IN THE DAY.

It seems God pronounced Adam's FUTURE circumstances (Gen 3:19).
It seems God pronounced Eve's FUTURE circumstances (Gen 3:16).

But let us look at what happened to BOTH of them IN THE DAY.

Gen 3:24 So he DROVE out the man... ("the man"=mankind=both of them)

I am assuming all this happened in ONE day because God said IN THE DAY.

On a spectrum of "good" to "bad" (1-10, or whatever), how "good" did Adam and Eve have it before they ate the fruit? How "bad" did they have it 1 second ouside the garden on the other side of the flaming sword?

I think it is only comparable to how "bad" we have it now, and how "good" we believers will have it in heaven.

I am struggling using the word "bad" but I don't know how to compare life now to what life will be like in heaven. I think it is impossible to overstate/comprehend the significance of going from pre-Fall, perfect garden, perfect communion with the HOLY GOD to outside the sword. Likewise, I think it is impossible to overstate/comprehend the significance of going from this outside the sword back to perfect communion with the HOLY GOD. Oh, but I can't wait!:)


Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

First, let me say that I am in total agreement that, from what I can see, the Bible does not teach man’s “spirit” is dead as a result of Adam's sin. I think it is understood that if man’s spirit is dead then he is not living and breathing. As living human beings we possess a body, soul, and spirit. Brother George has thoroughly made that very point with Scripture.

Please consider my humble explanation of why I have used the term "spiritual death". In your original question you asked about the term “spiritual” death.

There is a difference, in my opinion; in telling a lost sinner his “spirit” is dead versus showing him in Scripture he has no “spiritual” life because sin has separated him from God. That is how I, and I think many others, use the term “spiritual death”.

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Who is the “us” in this verse? If you conclude it is the born again believer who has life (has been quickened) with Christ, then you must agree that our understanding is because we have the Holy Spirit. Our understanding as a believer is of a “spiritual” nature. I had no “spiritual” life apart from Christ, but now in Christ I have “spiritual” life because the Holy Spirit hath quickened me. God reveals truth to us by the Holy Spirit through the written word. Do you agree that a “lost” person does not have the Holy Spirit? Of course you do. From this Biblical truth, I have concluded that they (the lost person who does not have the Holy Spirit) are “SPIRITUALLY DEAD”.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Only the Spirit of God knows the things of God. Therefore, those who do not have the Holy Spirit LIVING in them do not know the things of God. If a person does not have the Holy Spirit living in them, they are "spiritually"...what?

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Again, we who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have received the Spirit of God. We are born again. We have life. And that life is of a “spiritual” nature. I already possessed physical life, now i have "spiritual" life. Would you agree with that? If I now have “spiritual” life in Christ, what did I have prior to receiving Him? What would you call it?

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

I’ve entered into a new life of “spiritual” understanding. Before, without Christ, I was completely void of any “spiritual” life. What term would you use to describe a person who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Is he “spiritually” alive? What was he before receiving “spiritual” life? I don’t know, could we say he was “spiritually” dead?

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who is the “natural” man? Why is he “natural”? Is it because he does not have the Holy Spirit living in him?

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Who is the “spiritual” man? Why is he “spiritual”? Is it because the Spirit hath quicken him and the living Spirit of God is in him? What was he before he was quickened by the Holy Spirit? Dead? Physically or spiritually?

That’s how I’ve used and applied the term “spiritual death” when witnessing. If you do not use the term, that's fine. Brother Clint, I think we all agree that we should preach Christ and Him crucified.

Re: "Spiritual Death? "
 

Aloha brother Forrest,

Excellent Post brother. You beat me to the punch! :cool: I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation and will add one more Post in a little while to try to "fill-out" my take on this matter.

I believe the discourse that has gone on in this Thread is an excellent "example" of how Christian brethren (from all walks of life) can have an honest, respectful, and edifying discourse - without getting "bent out of shape" or "offended" by differing viewpoints.

There are many doctrines and issues where I will not entertain contrary opinions, but on matters like we have been discussing I believe there is "room" for differing thoughts, as long as they are backed up by Scripture, and kept within the confines of the Holy words of God.

God bless you brother! :)

Re: " Spiritual Death?"
 

Aloha all,

I am concerned that I might have left the wrong impression with my previous Posts about the “spirit” in man and “spiritual death”, or being “spiritually dead”.

First of all I did not mean, in any way, to question God’s words, when He said unto Adam:

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

If I have left that impression with anyone on the Forum, I want to apologize (especially to Samuel), because that was not my intent. I believe what God said, where He said it. My problem has been in trying to understand just exactly what manner, or kind of “death” took place in Adam the day that he partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

#1. We know that Adam’s body didn’t die (that day), because he lived another 930 years before he died physically. {Although his body was under sentence of death the day he sinned.)

[Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?]

#2. We know that his soul didn’t die (that day), because that was his very individual essence (i.e. who he was), he didn’t lose his identity – he still was “Adam”. Every man, woman and child has a soul within their body. {Although his soul was under sentence of death the day he sinned.}

[Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.]

#3. What I don’t fully understand is just exactly what happened to his “spirit”. Did it “die”, like our physical body, and totally cease to function (like the Calvinists believe and teach)? If it did then why are we still alive, and breathing, and walking around (in the flesh)?

I believe that all life emanates from God; that is - God is the source of all life. I believe that God imparts life to man through the “spirit” He gives to man (not the Holy Spirit). Man’s “spirit” then, is the source of life within a man, and when that “spirit” leaves a man - that man dies. {James 2:26] So, contrary to what the Calvinists teach - the “spirit” within man is not totally inoperable (it hasn’t ceased to function totally – as the body does when it dies.)

So then, what is known as “spiritual death” is NOT the SAME as physical death! To be “spiritually dead”, does NOT “mean” that man’s “spirit” does not function (like a dead body); it must mean that in relation to God, it is DEAD! In relation to a man’s body, it is still the source of physical life, but in relation to spiritual things – “it cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God”. [1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.]

Perhaps the following verse [Romans 4:19] is a partial simile to our dilemma:

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Romans 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

Was Abraham’s body DEAD? Not in the sense that we understand physical DEATH! Was Sarah’s womb DEAD? Again, not in the sense we look at physical DEATH. What is clear about both Abraham and Sarah is that they both were physically past being able to produce children, and yet, God ENABLED them to produce Isaac (a miracle birth)! I don’t profess to understand all of the ramifications to this simile, but I do think that our pre-conceived notions and concepts about death (since we only can “observe” physical death) influence our perceptions about what many call “spiritual death”.

If there is such a thing as “spiritual death” it has to mean more than just “separation” from God, else how do we explain Enoch and Noah?

Genesis 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

It’s no wonder that Calvinists believe that the Old Testament Saints were “born again” (just like us)! If you believe like Calvinists: IF men are “TOTALLY DEPRAVED” (i.e. born with a DEAD “spirit”), how could they possibly “walk with God” – unless they were regenerated first? HOW could God possibly “walk with” them – unless they were “born again”? CKG and John G are definitely on to something.

And then we have the testimony from the Holy Scriptures about the only other man (recorded in the Scriptures) to have had “walked with God” – LEVI:

Malachi 2:4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

This is the reason why I have been so “persnickety” about the idea or belief that the “spirit” within men is DEAD. I can accept the concept of “spiritual death” or someone being “spiritually dead” (like the simile of Abraham & Sarah [Romans 4:19]); I cannot accept the idea or belief (promoted by Calvinism) that the “spirit” within man is DEAD (Remember the “T” in T.U.L.I.P. – “TOTAL DEPRAVITY” – also known as: “TOTAL INABILITY”?) - Not when I cannot find a single verse in the Bible that says so!

Again,If there is such a thing as “spiritual death” it has to mean more than just “separation” from God, else how do we explain Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Moses, Joshua, the Judges, David, the Prophets, etc.? All of these men believed God; worshiped God; obeyed God; and interacted with God. Were they “separated” from God? If they were, it was a different kind of “separation” than we are familiar with in the physical world (i.e. “separation” between a husband and wife for example).

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

2 Chronicles 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Isaiah 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Numbers 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him; {“the spirit” = The Holy Spirit}

Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

What kind of “separation” is that? What about David? David only wrote part of the Book of Psalms (the greater part); and in just one Book, this one man wrote more about the Person and Majesty of Almighty God than any ten writers in the entire Bible; this one man wrote more about God’s Holy words than any ten writers in the entire Bible; and this one man wrote more about the heart of man than any ten writers in the Bible! If these men were “separated” from God, it can’t possibly be like the “separation” from God that men and women are going to experience in the Lake of Fire in eternity.

Can you see why Calvinists believe Old Testaments Saints just had to “born again” – just like us? If you accept T.U.L.I.P. as “gospel” – there could be no other explanation! Now can you see WHY I have tried to be so “circumspect” when it comes to this issue? This is the “meat” of the word that Paul spoke about, and there is a possibility that none of us is going to “get it all” until we see Jesus “face to face”.

Now don’t get me wrong, I believe that there was a “separation” that instantly took place the moment that Adam sinned. My problem has always been trying to understand - just exactly what kind of “separation” was it? And what kind of “spiritual death” occurred when Adam sinned? It’s not that I don’t believe God’s word – I do. It’s just that there are some things in the Scriptures which are “hard to be understood” [2 Peter 3:16] and this happens to be one of them.

But what I refuse to do, is go along with the “majority”, without having a strong Scriptural basis or foundation for believing something - simply because “so-and-so said so”, or our "pastor", our "church", or our "school" teaches it.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know inpart; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

In the meantime we are commanded to study God’s words and rightly divide them; [1Timothy 2:15] and not CHANGE them or make them “fit” some pre-conceived concepts we may hold - simply because we cannot discern or understand spiritual matters.

There may be a whole lot that we might speculate about this issue, but I would like to point out a couple more things – the supreme importance of God’s Holy words, i.e. “the Scripture of truth” in this matter; and the preeminent part that the Holy Spirit (not your pastor, your church, or your school) plays in understanding “the truth”.

God’s word is said to be:

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Modern day Christians underestimate the Power of God’s word and are substituting their own words, programs, and philosophies in its place. Modern day “Evangelicalism” has centered on MAN (Humanism/Psychiatry/Psychology) instead of God and His Holy word, resulting in the fleshly, carnal, and worldly display seen in their “services”.

According to the Scriptures, God’s words “are spirit, and they are life”.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Apostle Peter testified that the Lord Jesus Christ had “the words of eternal life”.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

If we must speculate about spiritual matters, we are obligated to refrain from personal opinion and "private interpretation", as much as is humanely possible, and we should strive to keep an issue within the bounds of the Scriptures and not resort to “flights of fancy”, based on “feelings” or “convictions”, that have no basis in God’s Holy word.

When we study the Scriptures we must seek discernment and understanding from the Holy Spirit – not just look to men. Men can be of some help in acquiring “knowledge” (and possibly some discernment), but most of a Christian’s “Discernment” comes from the Holy Spirit; and ALL of our “Understanding” and “Wisdom” comes from God.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If we do not look to God for discernment and understanding of His Holy word, then we will look to men (this is the problem with “Christian Schools” and most of modern day Christianity), with the result that we will be relying on other men to develop “a system of biblical interpretation” or “theological formulations” for us. But God did not command us to study other men’s systems “of biblical interpretation” or “theological formulations”. He commands us to “study the word of truth”: [2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.]

Brother Forrest cited these verses in 1Corinthians Chapter 2, but they are worth repeating. There is worldly wisdom, understanding, and discernment; and then there is Godly wisdom, understanding, and discernment. The things that we have been discussing must be spiritually discerned, they are not the “milk” of the word - they are the “strong meat”: [Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.]

If I were “more skillful in the word”, and if I had my “senses exercised to discern” more completely, perhaps I would be able to more fully comprehend these things that we have discussed here. At this point, I can only confess ignorance to fully understanding what manner of death Adam experienced when he ate of the fruit (I believe he died), and what is meant by “spiritual death” or being "spiritually dead"..

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man'swisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It has been my honest and sincere desire for years now, that I - “might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding”.

[Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;]

It is my sincere prayer that all those on this Forum "might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding” also.

This is interesting.

Yes, I don't believe the spirit in man is dead as we think of death. To me, death always means separation. But there is more. In Gen 2:25 it says Adam and Eve were not ashamed.

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Contrast that to Gen 3:7-8

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Now suddenly they were ashamed, embarrased and especially fearful.

Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So, Adam and Eve's minds were changed. Suddenly they were very aware of sin itself, and were terrified of God. And I think it goes without saying that man became very self-centered and selfish just like Satan. They were also filled with desires and lusts they had not known before.

The natural man is a different creature. And as an apple tree bears different fruit from the orange tree, so does the natural man differ and bear different fruit than the spirtual man.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

I like to say that before the fall they were "God Conscience" and after the fall they were "Self conscience". They became like gods literally, because they had a heart for God before and a heart for self after.

They took the place of God in their lives. Just as Lucifer wanted to take the place of God in heaven. Lucifer took the place of God in his heart long before he even tried to exalt his throne. He tried changed the direction of angelic worship as he changed the direction of worship in his heart.

That's a good way of looking at it. I'd never considered it that way before.

Peace and Love,
Stephen