Hello......Looking For Help On Cremation
 

Howdy Folks................:wave:

I mentioned in my first post (- thread: a little experiment...........) that although being a newbie (howdy folks.....) as a poster, I've been lurking here for some time which is probably selfish on my part. The depth and knowledge that is with a willing heart provided here is just humbling. So a big thanks from this 'ol saved sinner to you guys who faithfully, scripturally----- stand and defend the Book.

Another reason for my post is to look for a little help if I can. As I noted in my previous post that being a disabled vet myself :usa2:--- God putting me (allowing me) in a ministry to serve our veterans I had a guy ask me a question in our Friday Bible Study. Is it OK to be cremated..................? Now if I don't if I don't know the answer to a question or can put my finger on scripture I try to be honest enough to say I don't know.................and will get back, pray about it and ask for God to please reveal what it is I'm searching and/or go ask someone who knows better than me.

I know it was important not to leave Joseph's bones behind and we all know we're basically walking mud puddles--- God made Adam from the dust which is from the ground (earthy), the ground is and has a curse on it so everything goes back to the ground. We have a person (not just something) inside of us who enables that part of us that is already seated in glory--- when the flesh/body gives up...........takes us up while of course that part of us that is not saved goes to the grave (worm food). I've got guys anywhere from 62 up to 101 years of age who really don't want to be cremated because they think @ the rapture there's no body to call up (if their cremated) and their soul can't reunite with there body. Now please remember I have taught them otherwise...........but as we get up in age the mind ain't what it used to be.

We all know that our body is going to reunite with our soul (there's a zillion scriptures to support) knowing when Christ comes back as commander-in-chief were in that army following Him and also a good husband never leaves his wife behind! For us to ride a horse..........there's got to be a body (like that of Christ's) and those who will have the reward (conditional) of reigning in the Millennium will need something-- a body to reign in.

So is there scripture or scripture in type that one can offer on not to be cremated or does it even matter............? Just so you know a lot of the veterans there, etc. are cremated in part because they are there...........mostly forgotten, no shekels ($), yadda, yadda..........

Thanks folks..........

Maybe this will help.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Cremation kind of :eek:'s me out. But I don't think there are any special Biblical doctrines that instruct us to preserve, imbalm, or not destroy the mortal body. My mom, who is a believer, is doing the cremation thing to save the money.

Your verses are good................will store those away, thanks.

I guess where I'm at is as you stated............just can't put my finger quite on it. Personally knowing I'm going to get a new incorruptable body it don't matter about what happens to this one................, but just wanting to provide help to others is where I'm at. Alot of the veterans as they should still have alot of pride for serving their country, are very honorable men and women in their own right................where if I were to dig or assume would gauge that their thinking it is a dishonor to be cremated verses burial.

Keep in mind that I constantly harp that if your saved your dying in the righteousness that is in Jesus Christ............don't worry about your [current] body because you have no control when it's time to go. Something about that flesh that they can't let go of.

However.......knowing the heathen religions out there practice cremation-- Hinduism, etc. who burn the body because they believe in reincarnation, yet knowing at the same time I can't find anything doctrinally that would cause a Christian not to.

Comparing spiritual things with spiritual things it is evident that God's people practiced burial which would be an example, although not a commandment.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

• Abraham was buried (Genesis 25:8-10)
• Sarah was buried (Genesis 23:1-4)
• Rachel was buried (Genesis 35:19-20)
• Isaac was buried (Genesis 35:29)
• Jacob was buried (Genesis 49:33; 50:1-13)
• Joseph was buried (Genesis 50:26)
• Joshua was buried (Joshua 24:29-30)
• Eleazar was buried (Joshua 24:33)
• Samuel was buried (1 Samuel 25:1)
• David was buried (1 Kings 2:10)
• John the Baptist was buried (Matthew 14:10-12)
• Ananias and Sapphira were buried (Acts 5:5-10)
• Stephen was buried (Acts 8:2)

You make some good points, brother.

When there is not a commandment I feel that following Biblical example is wise and there is certainly examples given in Scripture on this topic as you suggested.

Also consider this passage in I Corinthians 15:

35  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The typology is planting a seed. A farmer does not destroy his seed before planting (cremation), yet he plants it whole (burial). The seed (body) decays naturally in which comes a new life (resurrection).

Also, could we consider the instances where a body was burned up as an act of God's wrath and not a good thing.

This Scripture appears to say here that it is a transgression:

It doesn't matter one way or the other. These biblical examples of burial, the burning of bodies, are just shadows and similitudes.

Col*2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Col*2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Col*2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col*2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col*2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col*2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Col*2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Col*2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Col*2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col*2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

Col*2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Col*2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

I agree with sis Jennifer, that it doesn't matter one way or another.

If God was able to form the dust of the ground into a man, surely he is able to gather up the dust of the ashes of a man from cremation, and make him into a man once again! Even if that dust is scattered to the winds, do you doubt the Almighty God's ability to gather up every last bit of dust and remake that person's body?

Jeremiah 32:17 - Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Be sure and "rightly divide" the word of truth. Apply New Covenant theology to the question on cremation not Old Testament examples that are not written to us in the first place. Divide the word of truth, don't harmonize it.

What is your view of believers that died on 9/11 in New York? Are they judged as a result of not being buried in a good manner? They were burned, so I ask, was that an act of God's wrath?

Is there any "condemnation" or "judgment" from God whenever a person chooses cremation?

Sisters,

It's not that it would be too hard for God.

But considering what the Bible has to say, if anything about a certain topic. We should do that with any decision we make. While we may have our liberty as Christians to do as we please in this matter, it is a good thing to compare Scripture with Scripture. The Bible is not completely silent on this matter...The example is there. You will not find a positive Scripture verse in regards to a body being burned.

As Wingwiper stated it is a stumbling block for a lot of Christians. For me that is also a good reason to avoid cremation. Perhaps it is ok to cremate, but I feel we should use our Christian liberty to not be a stumbling block to a weaker brother.

So, then, according to the Bible, you believe that the Lord will not resurrect those who have gone against what you feel is His teaching from the Bible regarding burial? He will REJECT those people as not doing His clear will?

Mind you, I'm not planning on being cremated myself. Burial is very expensive these days though. My own parents pre-purchased their burial plans. They'd purchased burial space in a masoleum - which is rather like a tomb, as Christ was buried. My father died last March, so he was buried in the masoleum (I hope I'm spelling that right!). My parents are Catholic though - so I don't know what Catholics teach about that.

What should people do if they cannot afford burial expenses?

Jassy

Oh I am sorry. I didn't know we were talking about the sin of dying in a fire. Yes, they should have chose a better way to die.

Please! Let's not confuse the question by bringing ridiculous and fantastic side issues. Of course I don't think someone that DIES via a house fire or explosion or any such thing as wrong!? Is that what it sounded like I said?
No, I don't think so. I was referring to people who CHOSE to be cremated rather than buried.

I am also not saying I think it is "wrong" or a "sin" to cremate. I was only giving him some thoughts to consider.

Hmmm...no not that I can find. But I was trying to answer the original question, not yours.

Not exactly what you mean here, but ok? I wasn't "applying" anything...just offering him the Scriptures I felt dealt with the topic.

What!? Please quote me where I said that.


Frankly I don't care what they would do. I am trying to give WingWiper things to consider in his search for "the" answer...if there is one.

I said and I quote "for me" I would not choose cremation.

On further reflection there is more here that was erroneous:

Never was said.


I said there was no teaching specifically, just example.

Certainly never said that.


Nope, not a clear will. Don't think I said that either. There IS a clear example. But not a clear will or commandment.

I didn't see anyone claim anything like that. I don't understand what was said that would lead you to that conclusion.

The Bible only shows God's people being buried. We look forward to having our bodies resurrected and glorified. Of course God can put all the right parts together even if my body is vaporized in a nuclear explosion, but because I trust in the promise of resurrection, I want my body buried in honor and recognition of the work God intends to do, not burned to ashes as if my body has no future use.

I don't see any Scriptures indicating it is a sin to have your body cremated, so there's nothing to be dogmatic about here either way.

Here is exactly what you wrote, Amanda.

I highlight your words.

Amanda, you brought up the issue of "instances where a body was burned up as an act of God's wrath and not a good thing". The Old Testament example you gave has absolutely nothing to do with us.

You wrote, "I wasn't "applying" anything...just offering him the Scriptures I felt dealt with the topic." Okay. I will validate your feelings. But your attempt to use scripture as a way to support why we should bury not cremate is wrong. This is what is meant by trying to harmonize the word of truth instead of rightly dividing the word of truth. We should:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When we attempt to use scripture that has nothing to do with us concerning the choices we make regarding cremation, we are not rightly dividing the word of truth, we are attempting to make it harmonize instead, in order to rally support of a particular view point or the way we feel about something.

You certainly have a right to your personal preference. You think we should follow the Biblical pattern of burial. Be sure and study up on the Jewish burial custom so you can follow their example. But it is wrong to use scripture out of context that is not addressing us in the first place.

You wrote:

Amanda, please read my question to you carefully. If you fully believe a person is not wrong for dieing via a house fire or explosion or any such thing, then what difference does it make if someone chooses cremation? You brought that up, not me. Why not just say, if you choose cremation you are in no way wrong.

So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? ~ {1 Corinthians 15:54,55}

What a blessing to know that corruptible shall put on incorruption...no matter what state the dead have parished or how they're layed to rest...what matters is that death has no sting and the grave has no victory. :)

Lord...bring on that incorruption soon!

I think the issue we're discussing here isn't if God can resurrect ashes as opposed to dust. The question is whether we as christians are subject to the rudiments of the world, and the shadows of things to come, or are we the spiritual fulfilment of these things in Christ?

Amanda's
My concern is that we consider what the Bible has to say specifically about rightly dividing, if we don't then we can subtlely bring ourselves back under the law.

Amanda's
I believe Paul takes a hard stand against christians turning back again to bondage to the law or to the weak and beggerly elements.

Galatians 4:1-11
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a

servant, though he be lord of all; But is under tutors and governors until the

time appointed of the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in

bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the

time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under

the law,

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the

adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of

his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a

servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit

then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are

no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of

God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye

desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and

years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Amanda, you are right when you say we should not use our liberty to cause weaker brothers and sisters to stumble. But I believe you agree it is when we recognize we have only Christ's righteousness, not our own by fulfilling any law, that can we really manifest Christ's love for each other and the lost.


Windpiper's
I think arguing that since the heathen practice cremation and Israel practiced burial therefore christians should follow the example of Israel's practices is not comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. These things are shadows and similitudes and pagan practices.

Paul doesn't teach that we are to live by these ensamples, shadows of things to come. We are to learn from them.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

That said, I would definitely choose burial for myself and my loved ones. I agree with Amanda that I choose, in the liberty that I have in Christ, to follow the example of the children of Israel and the people of God that came before. I think the burning of a body is symbolic of God's judgement and I want no part of that even if it is symbolic. But that is just my personal conviction and I don't apply it to any other christian.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Yes, I know what I wrote. But what I wrote was in the context of cremation. When kept in the context what I said has nothing to do with burning in general. If you wanted to apply it accross the board then we could say that the burning of the body of an animal is a transgression as well. We know it's not. So let me clarify myself.

Also, could we consider the instances where a body was burned after death as in cremation as an act of God's wrath and not a good thing?

There should also have been a question mark. I am not stating a fact just asking could we consider that verse as well.

Perhaps it doesn't. That's why I asked.

Agreed. But I would like to think rather that I was considering

No thank you. The Biblical pattern will be sufficient.

I guess I could. But I thought WingWiper wanted to share discourse on this topic. I can't honestly say that I think it is "in no way wrong" but neither can I say it is right thing to do. Forgive however for offering my personal preference. I obviously should have kept that to myself.

Re: "1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and thoug"
 

Brother Forrest said:
Aloha brother Forrest,

I'm with you on this one. I do not think that it is wrong to have your body cremated. I "prefer" not to, but that is my "preference".

What do we do with:I profess that I do not fully understand what the Apostle Paul is getting at here in 1 Corinthians, but it seems to me that the Apostle Paul had NO OBJECTIONS to cremation (and there may have been some "charitable" act involved in cremation :confused: ) - so that's "good enough for me". :)

Ok that totally made me laugh out loud :D

Is this not obviously referring to offering yourself as a sacrifice?!

I can just see Paul..."Though I cremate my body it profiteth me nothing"

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Aloha brother George,

This verse comes to my mind:

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

The idea of being sacrificed.

Jen

for me I don't even want formaldehyde put in my body. Which gives them 3 days to bury me.

Frankly I don't care what they would do. I am trying to give WingWiper things to consider in his search for "the" answer...if there is one.

I said and I quote "for me" I would not choose cremation.[/QUOTE]

Well said................Thanks.

Thank everyone so far for their posts............good stuff. You guys make some good points............although I read 1 or 2 where maybe my original post is not understood or folk are reading me the wrong way. Let me make sure that I clarify if I misled anyone that I am looking for wisdom and discourse on the subject of cremation. I'm a disabled vet in a wheelchair, when this old body gives out.............help yo self, I'm out of here:party::party:. Worm food or dust...............I don't care.

I am not trying to pull Old Testament or Old Covenant doctrine, scripture to this dispensation........... not looking backwards if you will. I am fully aware of 2 Tim. 2:15 as many of you pointed out and well taken (I'm in the right place!) and know when we read--- we are to be aware as to who is speaking and to whom is being spoken to. I was only offering as someone mentioned some shadows from the Old Testament but never said that it was or is Pauline Epistle. I offered only examples.

Just looking to see if anyone knew direct scripture for yea or nea on the subject. They're not questioning their salvation or eternal security..............., but more on is there a scripture directly on the subject. Yes...............I agree that it does not matter because we already have the victory, shadows we learn by, the law is our schoolmaster, etc.

I would suggest maybe that the normal burial today vs. Jewish burial I referenced to (Old Testament) is just as heathen as cremation due to the fact we duplicate (in part) the Egyptians in regards to embalming, preserving the body into the afterlife. I'm sure there is someone that would disagree with that, but there's a big difference in wrapping a body in linen, putting it in the ground vs the process of burial today. Embalmed and preserved for what............? I'm sure the environmentalists or maybe someone here would argue that point.

Re: "Hello......Looking For Help On Cremation"
 

Aloha sister Amanda,

Nothing is "obvious" at all! :( And I see nothing "humorous" about my comments. :tsk:

You CHANGED Paul's "words" (and then ADDED your own) to match your "private interpretation". {You also SUBTRACTED FROM God’s holy word – i.e. “and have not charity”}

The Apostle Paul said:
Quote:
You said:
Quote:
Nothing is being said about someone "SACRIFICING" their living "body" - can you imagine the Apostle Paul talking about SACRIFICING himself ("by burning"?) for anyone. :confused: This, after years of preaching and teaching about the ONE EFFECTUAL & FINAL "SACRIFICE" [1Corinthian 1:23, 2:2] made by the Lord Jesus Christ (BY "CRUCIFIXION" - NOT by "burning") :confused: The verse is talking about GIVING a "body" (a DEAD "body") to be "burned" - NOT a "burnt offering"!

Consider the "CONTEXT" of verse three: In the context the verse is talking about "GIVING" - NOT "SACRIFICING"! :eek: Paul talks about - "bestowing" (GIVING) all his goods "TO FEED THE POOR"; and then he talks about “GIVING” (NOT “SACRIFICING” – the word “sacrifice” is NOT in the entire Chapter, and neither is the word "offering") his body to be “burned” (NOT as a "burnt offering"); and the point he was making is – if he does not have CHARITY – “IT PROFITETH ME NOTHING” (when he gets to the judgment seat of Christ - even if he gave "his body to be burned").

Paul was speaking to the Corinthian church (a predominantly Gentile church) and, if you check your Greek & Roman history - quite often the Gentiles would "cremate" their dead. {"Context" - it's always about "CONTEXT"!}

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1st Corinthians 13 is about charity. Everything in the entire chapter is.

1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

This verse doesn't say anything about death -- that can only be inferred by the reader.

Since Paul already talks about our bodies being living sacrifices it isn't a stretch to make that connection here.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

We know that burning is a proper mode of sacrifice in the Old Testament. The words burn and sacrifice (including the various word forms of burn) appear together in 97 verses in the Bible.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego "yielded their bodies" to be burned rather than forsake God.

Daniel 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

It may be that Paul isn't talking about being a living sacrifice in the verse in question, but he doesn't say anything about giving his body to someone -- that is speculation. I can think of a few martyrs who gave their bodies to be burned.

Anyway, I don't see how this verse in 1st Corinthians could be used to support or condemn cremation.

Here is an example of at least partial cremation in the Bible, which I seemed to have missed before:

1 Samuel 31:12-13 All the valiant men arose, and went all night, and took the body of Saul and the bodies of his sons from the wall of Bethshan, and came to Jabesh, and burnt them there. And they took their bones, and buried them under a tree at Jabesh, and fasted seven days.

They burned the bodies then buried the bones. Now everybody should be happy.

Aloha yourself Brother :)

You are quite correct. I will concede. This Scripture is not obviously talking about cremation or sacrifice. One of those passages that causes one to scratch his head.


Go ahead. Fry me up now and serve me with chips...I was intending to paraphrase. But yes you are correct I added and subtracted. Forgive me. But I evidently misunderstood you to say that "give my body to be burned" meant cremation. I thought that was your private interpretation.

Upon reflection rather than a sacrifice, a burnt offering as you said I said, a type of martyr is really what I had in mind.

Perhaps rather than studying Greek and Roman history for their frequency of cremation, I should study how cremation is charitable? I'll let you know what I find.

I do not think the argument for cremation in the Bible is nearly as strong as the argument for burial is. Again let me say I am not saying there is a commandment or that it is "wrong" or a "sin" to cremate for I believe if it were that big of an issue the Bible would be clearer.

BUT having said that, the Bible refers to burial over and over and over again. Even Baptism is a picture of death, burial and resurrection. All through church history cremation was frowned upon. It's not until recent times has that come into question. From time immemorial the heathen are the ones who cremate.

Again, it's not forbidden but perhaps it boils down to the motive for cremation?

Phenomenal! You did that with such ease!? Oh if only I could present my thoughts in such a manner. :) But I am learning. Ever learning.

LoL :D
But even this instance boiled down to motive. To keep the Philistines from having their way with the bodies and desecrating them.

WingWiper :)

You said:
That is all I was intending to offer. Discourse...not prove "my position". I hope that was obvious.

:)

That's grim.

Well, no, the Philistines already had their way with Saul, just a few verses up. They cut of his head, paraded his body around the land, and pinned his body to a wall. I suppose of motive was in play, shame and embarrassment over what had been done to the bodies might have been a factor -- but that is mere speculation, just like saying Paul was talking about burning his dead body in 1Co 13.

I find cremation a distasteful practice, but I have to admit that my opinion on cremation is not backed up directly in Scripture. Given that we are three pages into this topic and nobody has produced a single verse clearly condemning cremation, perhaps we can come to an agreement that there is nothing Scriptural to be said of it one way or another, and we ought to let people do as they will without burdening them with guilt over something that God didn't bother to comment on in his Book.

Wingwiper's
You make an excellent point. This oughta teach you never to ask a question on this forum.:pound:

At least we stayed on topic.

For I wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren...

Paul is expressing the idea here of a substitutionary sacrifice, himself for his kinsmen according to the flesh. He knows full well it's not possible but is using hyperbole.

I think 1 Cor. 13:3 does mean something different from Rom 9:3.

1 Cor. 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

I think he's saying even if he (or any of us) gives everything he possesses including his body, for the furtherance of the gospel, if he does it by constraint, not in love, he has no reward.

Same idea as:

1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

I could be wrong, just a thought.

A side note: Perhaps Paul had been shown by the Lord the manner of his death? I have no idea how Paul died.

Jen,

I had to laugh at that. does it seem so grim? that was practiced by the Jews in the old days.

I often tell my wife and kids if I die just stuff me in an old rice sack and bury me in the back yard.

your body can actually go without formaldehyde for 3 days on the forth it begins to rot, depending on how it is kept. If it is exposed to the elements it wont last 3 days.

many laws are passed that you have to have your body preserved with formaldehyde. I guess it is the old movie I saw in 1974 when the woman wished her dead husband alive and when he did he was screaming in pain because his body had no blood only formaldehyde in it. Now that is grim

Not to say it is the least expensive funeral compared to normal burial costs and plots.

Chette,

Cremation is sounding better and better. Or that rice bag.

Perhaps a Green Burial:http://greenburialcouncil.org/faq.php

Jen

I thought my post kinda, in it's own humble way...:D...said you guys are wasting your time discussing whether God really cares about where or how the corruptible is layed to rest. Like Brandon said...it's just NOT in the Bible.

But, whatever floats the boat, as they say. :D

Cremation
 

If we are talking about a body that is to be buried in an honourable way – then what about the concubine, the reformers and those who’s bodies were never found or lost at sea?

Judges 19:29 “And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.”

I personally don’t think that our burial is all that important as there are some that haven’t even been buried such as William Tyndale and Jon Huss because of their faith.

Rv.20:13 “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”

1 Cor 15 makes it clear that whatever the case – V42 “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:”

To be sown in corruption means sown into death not necessarily in a tomb. Whether we are burned, buried or lost at sea we will all be raised up on the last day when that trumpet will sound its blast!

God bless

PaulB

Sister Amanda,

I apologize to you. I spoke very rashly, without thinking and zeroed in on one thing. It wasn't at all what you had intended or meant. Doing that was very out-of-character for me, and I think that most people here that know me would realize that was not the way that I have consistently responded here.

I seemed to be having a bad day! I'm sorry that I didn't think more and prayerfully contemplate before I responded.

That is why I have taken a break yesterday from posting.

Jassy

Then you better not drink milk (store bought- at least here in the US), get vaccinated or smoke cigarettes brother.

Brother KingSolomon1611,

I noticed this post and, although it wasn't addressed to me, I found it interesting. This is why I buy my milk raw, directly from a farm, haven't had a vaccination in nearly 25 years, and DON'T smoke!

The time that I DID get vaccinated, for the flu - at the insistence of a doctor - it make me very ILL!! That was the last time I ever got vaccinated for anything. I've had doctors since then try to push me into getting innoculated, but I have steadfastly refused. I've had people all around me getting sick with the flu (and they'd been vaccinated!!) and I don't get sick. I've even CARED for some people while they've been very ill with the flu and I didn't get sick myself. I have gone for up to 8 years without getting sick from even so much as a common cold! The Lord blessed me with a very powerful immune system, which I am thankful for.

Jassy