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Biblestudent 01-01-2009 07:31 AM

"Inspired" or "Given by inspiration"?
 
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (KJV)

VERSUS

2 Timothy 3:16 Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. (ASV)

The ASV is wrong in at least two points:
1. In saying, "Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable...", the ASV implies some part of Scripture is not inspired.
2. In changing "given by inspiration" to "inspired", the true doctrine of the inspiration of Scriptures is lost.

There is a big difference in meaning between "given by inspiration" and "inspired". (Thanks to Dr. Ruckman in his book The Christian's Handbook of Biblical Scholarship, Chapter 10.)

I'm not advocating that saying "inspired" is wrong, but I believe the KJV translators accuretaly translated theopneustos as "given by inspiration". I believe the phrase gives us an accurate concept concerning the doctrine of inspiration.

The following are words associated with "inspiration":

1. BREATH

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, And the breath of the Almighty giveth me life.

2. SPIRIT

Ezekiel 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.


John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

3. MOUTH

Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Therefore, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" means:

1. All Scripture is given by the BREATH of God.
2. All Scripture is given by the SPIRIT of God.
3. All Scripture is given by the MOUTH of God.

This concept shows how inspiration cannot be limited to the originals but that the copy of Scripture (KJV) that we have in our hands is the very word BREATHED by God, authored by the SPIRITof God, and came out from the very MOUTH of God.

George 01-01-2009 09:42 AM

Re: "Inspired" or "Given by inspiration"?
 
Aloha brother Sammy,

Great Post < > Short, succinct, and to the point! And I agree with every word! :amen:

I also believe that it throws new light on:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Biblestudent 01-01-2009 10:09 AM

Thanks, brother George! Happy New Year!

Biblestudent 01-01-2009 10:30 AM

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." The King James Bible is "given by inspiration of God".

Some people say only the original writings are "inspired" and to call the KJV "inspired" would be "double inspiration".

But we can notice that the Bible did not say all Scriptureis "inspired", but all Scripture is "given by inspiration". The originals, as well as the KJV, are all Scripture "given by inspiration". That is, they are "words" "breathed" from the "mouth" of God and given by the "Spirit" of God to man. Inspiration began, not only when "holy men of God SPAKE as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", but when "every word proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

What I'm saying is, even the Ten Commandments "written with the finger of God" on two tables of stone were not the "inspired originals". I believe they were inspired, written COPIES of the original, SPOKEN Word of God.

In other words, the ORIGINALS were not the written copy but the SPOKEN original. (See, for example, in Exodus 20.) God spoke His original word; He had man write a copy of his SPOKEN word. The written copy (Scripture) is given, not by writing, but by "inspiration of God'.

So, when we say the KJV is "given by inspiration of God", it means that this is the Book that FIRST came out of the very MOUTH of God. Inspiration did not start in 1611, but it started when God "spoke" or "breathed" the spoken originals.

stephanos 01-01-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biblestudent (Post 13939)
"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God." The King James Bible is "given by inspiration of God".

Some people say only the original writings are "inspired" and to call the KJV "inspired" would be "double inspiration".

But we can notice that the Bible did not say all Scriptureis "inspired", but all Scripture is "given by inspiration". The originals, as well as the KJV, are all Scripture "given by inspiration". That is, they are "words" "breathed" from the "mouth" of God and given by the "Spirit" of God to man. Inspiration began, not only when "holy men of God SPAKE as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", but when "every word proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

What I'm saying is, even the Ten Commandments "written with the finger of God" on two tables of stone were not the "inspired originals". I believe they were inspired, written COPIES of the original, SPOKEN Word of God.

In other words, the ORIGINALS were not the written copy but the SPOKEN original. (See, for example, in Exodus 20.) God spoke His original word; He had man write a copy of his SPOKEN word. The written copy (Scripture) is given, not by writing, but by "inspiration of God'.

So, when we say the KJV is "given by inspiration of God", it means that this is the Book that FIRST came out of the very MOUTH of God. Inspiration did not start in 1611, but it started when God "spoke" or "breathed" the spoken originals.

Yeah this is a good point. A lot of bible-users like to say that the only inerrant infallible Word of God is in Heaven. They fail to realize that God "gave" us those original Words through His work of preservation which can now be found in their entirety and fully preserved in the King James Bible.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Bro. Parrish 01-01-2009 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanos (Post 13946)
Yeah this is a good point. A lot of bible-users like to say that the only inerrant infallible Word of God is in Heaven. They fail to realize that God "gave" us those original Words through His work of preservation which can now be found in their entirety and fully preserved in the King James Bible.

Very true, preservation is the key... :thumb:

MC1171611 01-01-2009 11:32 PM

Amen brother. I hit on this a little in this thread a while back. It's important to understand that from a Biblical standpoint, it's the MEN that are inspired, not the words. Those words are given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost from the mouth of God, and if you cannot honestly believed that the King James Translators were inspired of God to give us that Book, then you're lying when you stand up and say "Thus say the scriptures."

ALL SCRIPTURE. Amen.

George 01-02-2009 10:17 AM

Re: "Inspired" or "Given by inspiration"?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MC1171611 (Post 13954)
"Amen brother. I hit on this a little in this thread a while back. It's important to understand that from a Biblical standpoint, it's the MEN that are inspired, not the words. Those words are given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost from the mouth of God, and if you cannot honestly believed that the King James Translators were inspired of God to give us that Book, then you're lying when you stand up and say "Thus say the scriptures."

ALL SCRIPTURE. Amen.

Aloha MC1171611,

It is presumptuous on your part, when you presuppose and assume that anyone who disagrees with you is a LIAR! :( Surmise all you want, but to call anyone who disagrees with your personal opinion on an issue a LIAR, is the height vanity! :eek:

I believe God's words are "Inspired" (and have believed so since 1968) - NOT men; does that make me A LIAR? :confused:

You gave us your link as to what you THINK "Inspiration" is. Here is a link to what I believe Biblical "Inspiration" is: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7219&postcount=1

I do not believe that you are right (or correct) in your interpretation of what "Inspiration" is. But I do not PRESUME that you are A LIAR, just because you differ with me!

One of us may be wrong in our understanding of this very important issue. In fact, we both might be wrong, but when you start making defamatory accusations against some of the brethren because they differ with your understanding of this issue ("then you're lying when you stand up and say "Thus say the scriptures.") that is known as "slanderous" remarks, and should have no place in a Christian discussion or debate concerning Bible issues.

I'm extremely careful about whom I accuse of being A LIAR! And you should be too! :confused:

Forrest 01-02-2009 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 13964)
I believe God's words are "Inspired" (and have believed so since 1968) - NOT men; does that make me A LIAR? :confused:

I agree. Every "word of God" is pure, perfect, powerful, and precious because it is GOD'S WORD. This is key. In my opinion, if we believe that "men" were inspired and not the "words," it opens up the door for other men to claim their words are inspired. And it also exalts and places emphasis on man. In addition, we've all heard men and women who claim the Holy Spirit "told" them something or gave them a "word of knowledge" that is in direct contradiction to the inspired word of God.

I'll rest in the fact that God chose to use fallible man to preserve infallible truth! :nod:

George 01-02-2009 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forrest (Post 13970)
I agree. Every "word of God" is pure, perfect, powerful, and precious because it is GOD'S WORD. This is key. In my opinion, if we believe that "men" were inspired and not the "words," it opens up the door for other men to claim their words are inspired. And it also exalts and places emphasis on man. In addition, we've all heard men and women who claim the Holy Spirit "told" them something or gave them a "word of knowledge" that is in direct contradiction to the inspired word of God.

I'll rest in the fact that God chose to use fallible man to preserve infallible truth! :nod:


Aloha brother Forrest,

And a happy and blessed New Year to you and yours. :)

I just wanted to give a big :amen: to your remarks brother. My faith is not in the men who translated the words of God (although I thank God for their "faithfulness") - My faith is in the God who INSPIRED those words and who PRESERVED those INSPIRED WORDS in the King James Bible!

MC1171611 01-02-2009 01:57 PM

I'm afraid you all have completely misunderstood me. I said that anyone who claims to be speaking the Scriptures, and yet cannot say that what he holds is 100% perfect and given by inspiration is lying, and I am not speaking of those on this forum who hold the King James Bible to be perfect. There is no need to be offended of defensive: I'm talking of others who don't really believe what they hold is perfect, and yet tell their congregations that they are speaking the words of God.

Inspiration is simply the work of the Holy Spirit upon someone: Paul, Peter, John, and others were inspired by God to wrote the words that He spoke to them through the Holy Spirit. If He inspired those imperfect men to write His perfect words, then why would it be a stretch to believe that He inspired the King James translators to write His perfect words as well? That's all I'm saying: God inspired imperfect men to write His perfect words. That is what inspiration is, pure and simple: He inspires men, not words: the Scriptures are "given by inspiration" and therefore perfect and infallible and eternal.

George 01-02-2009 02:51 PM

Re: "Inspired" or "Given by inspiration"?
 
MC1171611
Quote:

"I'm afraid you all have completely misunderstood me. I said that anyone who claims to be speaking the Scriptures, and yet cannot say that what he holds is 100% perfect and given by inspiration is lying, and I am not speaking of those on this forum who hold the King James Bible to be perfect. There is no need to be offended of defensive: I'm talking of others who don't really believe what they hold is perfect, and yet tell their congregations that they are speaking the words of God."

"Inspiration is simply the work of the Holy Spirit upon someone: Paul, Peter, John, and others were inspired by God to wrote the words that He spoke to them through the Holy Spirit. If He inspired those imperfect men to write His perfect words, then why would it be a stretch to believe that He inspired the King James translators to write His perfect words as well? That's all I'm saying: God inspired imperfect men to write His perfect words. That is what inspiration is, pure and simple: He inspires men, not words: the Scriptures are "given by inspiration" and therefore perfect and infallible and eternal."
Aloha brother,

Now I don't want to "beat a dead horse here", but I did not "misunderstand" what you said. This is exactly what you said:

Quote:

"Amen brother. I hit on this a little in this thread a while back. It's important to understand that from a Biblical standpoint, it's the MEN that are inspired, not the words. Those words are given by inspiration of the Holy Ghost from the mouth of God, and if you cannot honestly believed that the King James Translators were inspired of God to give us that Book, then you're lying when you stand up and say "Thus say the scriptures."
Although I believe that God led and directed the A.V. 1611 translators in their work, I do NOT believe that "the King James Translators were inspired of God". And while I believe that you are entitled to your belief, the way you worded your statement, strongly intimated that anyone that did not believe that the King James translators were "inspired" are LIARS! I objected to that portion of your statement - NOT your personal conviction (which you are certainly entitled to) that they were inspired.

The words "inspire" and "inspired" cannot be found in the Bible. And the word "Inspiration" only shows up twice:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


It is extremely difficult to build a doctrine from just two verses. But neither of these verses says that men are "inspired".

I am glad that we can both agree that the King James Bible is the Holy and perfect word of God, providentially preserved by God through His people, just exactly as He wants it - infallible and without error.

If we disagree on the "mechanics" - we at least agree on the "finished product". :)


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