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Luke 12-01-2008 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkg (Post 12383)
I didnt mean street witnessing persay, Im meaning more in a church situation. Where as not everyone who goes to a church is saved. So its more of someone you know, than a complete stranger.

You should know your church family pretty well. I know everyone in my church is saved (as far as a man can tell), except for the husband of one woman, who is not saved, but comes along to church sometimes.

You don't want to start this kind of ministry brother. Men like Paul Washer and Ray Comfort run ministries like this. They constantly call on the church to examine themselves to see if they are really saved. I call it a ministry of doubt - because they target the church (most of these men preaching these kinds of sermons are aiming them at the pentecostal new evangelical crowd, but for some reason, preach them to the fundamental crowds...) Their entire ministry is built around this idea of false converts, and winning the church to God. It's a neccesary ministry, because there are false converts, but one that should be done by the PASTOR, not the EVANGELIST. The Evangelists job is to win the WORLD to Christ, not the Church.

tkg 12-01-2008 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 12389)
You should know your church family pretty well. I know everyone in my church is saved (as far as a man can tell), except for the husband of one woman, who is not saved, but comes along to church sometimes.

You don't want to start this kind of ministry brother. Men like Paul Washer and Ray Comfort run ministries like this. They constantly call on the church to examine themselves to see if they are really saved. I call it a ministry of doubt - because they target the church (most of these men preaching these kinds of sermons are aiming them at the pentecostal new evangelical crowd, but for some reason, preach them to the fundamental crowds...) Their entire ministry is built around this idea of false converts, and winning the church to God. It's a neccesary ministry, because there are false converts, but one that should be done by the PASTOR, not the EVANGELIST. The Evangelists job is to win the WORLD to Christ, not the Church.

I bolded for emphasis (and unbolded yours just so people dont confused), but that was the point I was getting at, how is a man to tell. I have no intention of going around questioning everyone in my church (Its not my place and Im fairly sure about most of them), most of these are just personal thoughts. What I was trying to get at the whole time was that if you know someone well, how is it a man can tell?

Luke 12-01-2008 04:37 PM

I can tell because they say the believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour. I don't look at their works. I listen to their confession of Christ.

tkg 12-01-2008 04:54 PM

Ahhh, well this has all been very enlightening to me. I am as of now, downloading a good chunk of paul washers sermons and am going to compare what he says in them, to what has been said here. But thank you all for your input in the matter. I guess the thing I want to find out is more specifics of Paul talking about Lordship salvation which means I have to go thru all of it. But ill be sure to post any and all examples I find. :)

P.S. on a side note, Luke do you remember me from like 2 years ago? Just wondering is all.

Luke 12-01-2008 05:08 PM

Where would I remember you from? Church, or any particular forum or what?
I might do, but your name and avatar aren't familiar.

God bless :)

P.S. Don't be fooled by Paul Washer's highly emotional preaching. His wavery voice can be very convincing, but he isn't biblical. He misapplies verses all over the place, despite his obvious sincerity.

stephanos 12-01-2008 05:18 PM

A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)


For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Luke 12-01-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanos (Post 12401)
A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)


For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Stephen is right. Paul Washer's messages will cause great confusion

1) Mainly because he teaches calvinism (but doesn't even apparently believe in his own calvinism at times, claiming that if he didn't witness to someone, they would have gone to hell. Seems like he changed the will of God there...)

2) He teaches Lordship Salvation
3) He stresses self examination. It's never enough to rest in Christ. It's all about "Are you holier than you were a year ago", "Go and stand next to a drunk and rejoice because you aren't like them" (those aren't actual quotes, but the second one is very close to something he said about college students and their drunkenness, and how we should rejoice because we aren't like them).

JMWHALEN 12-01-2008 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephanos (Post 12401)
A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)


For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

________
Yes, stephanos,

I live in Texas. My preacher friend Mike Arnold provided me the below prize winning Chili recipe(ingredients). It is an 94.73% accurate "copy".

2 1/2 lb. lean ground chuck/ 1 lb. lean ground pork/1 c finely chopped onion/4 garlic cloves finely chopped/1 cn Budweiser beer(12 oz)/8 oz Hunt's tomato sauce/1 cn water/3 tb chili powder/3 tb ground cumin/2 tb Wyler's beef-flavored instant bouillon(or 6 cubes)/2 ts Oregano leaves/2 ts paprika/2 ts sugar/1 ts unsweetened cocoa/1/2 ts ground coriander/1/2 ts Louisiana hot sauce, to taste/1 ts flour, 1 ts cornmeal/1 tb warm water/2 ts ARSENIC

Pastor Jerry Lockhart of Berean Bible Church in New Braunfels, Texas points out that rat poison is 99.05% cornmeal, and .05% strychnine(a poisonous alkaloid). The .05% “gets the rat”. Satan’s deception is to “mix a little lie in with a whole lotta’ truth”, and the Body of Christ has bought into this deception-very "subtil"(Genesis 3:1).

"Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?" James 3:11

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

tkg 12-01-2008 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 12398)
Where would I remember you from? Church, or any particular forum or what?
I might do, but your name and avatar aren't familiar.

God bless :)

P.S. Don't be fooled by Paul Washer's highly emotional preaching. His wavery voice can be very convincing, but he isn't biblical. He misapplies verses all over the place, despite his obvious sincerity.

Old days of Game Design from the GMC.

And Stephanos, the only reason I want to in the first place is because their are a few people in my church who listen to him all the time. If there is another way I can bring up a more specific point of Pauls teaching being of Lordship salvation, and not just for the purpose of slamming it im all for it. If not me I would be grateful if someone could give me a link detailing the core of his doctrine and expounding upon why it is not biblically correct that would be great. I looked at Jesus-is-savior.com and the one I did read, which was by Tracy I think is the name, felt mean-spirited, but that could just be me.

My main concern now is for my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ in my church.

In Love
-Timothy

Luke 12-01-2008 05:32 PM

David Stewart doesn't host any of Tracy's work anymore (well, not much). Tracy would be in agreement with Paul Washer, except for his calvinism.

MightyAngel 07-26-2009 05:15 PM

My testimony is against Paul Washer. There are many reasons why I'm against him but I'll try to keep this as short as possible. Let me first make it clear that I don't always blame the "minister" or their "flocks" in all of my rebukes but in this case I believe that both Paul Washer and his flocks are both in the wrong with God. :(

-------KJV-------
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
---------------

Now if a man (such as Paul Washer) is to have a good report from those who are without this world's good in order to be a sound minister of righteousness, Paul Washer has utterly failed and so have his flocks.

Here's a few of the many reasons why:
-He's high minded and so are his flocks (his flocks praise him as "good" but it is written that no man is good)
-He has this world's good and he doesn't obey Matthew 5:42 (I've asked of him and I grew up fatherless in a 3rd generation of a family history of suicide.) Paul Washer won't give to them that ask of him directly. He only gives to them that don't ask of him (after he sounds a world-wide mega minsitry website trumpet or youtube video).
-He's failed to communicate (disobeying 1 Timothy 6:18). A failure to communicate shows a lack of Love. Didn't Jesus say that whatsoever you did for the least of these, you did for me? (I'm one of the very least of "these" the household of faith)
-Paul Washer and his flocks claim repentance and hardcore works but yet neither Paul nor any of his congregation have "seeked out the matter" concerning my "fatherless cause".
-His flocks also ignore my attempts to communicate and they often attack me with great anger :mad: for simply rebuking the one they have "respect of persons" for.

Paul Washer's religion is beyond defiled and blind and naked and lukewarm (in my eyes). Simply put: "It's not about giving to as many of the poorest people you can find that don't ask of you, it's about obeying Jesus and building your house on a rock. When I asked of him, Paul Washer wasn't only ignoring me (along with his servants) but he was talking in his video about how he likes to stop at a certain city just to buy suits there."

Are we not told that life is more than clothing? Well one thing's for sure about Paul Washer, I wanted to know him but he would not get to know me when I came to him in Love. And one thing's for certain about his flocks, they make videos on YouTube praising him as a true man of God and the videos are very flashy which make other lesser Christians to be provoked to envy or jealousy of his great mission trips in the jungles.

Paul Washer (and many other false teachers these days) does not obey God while claiming that works are so important that "if we can't see the good works of other Christians, we should shun them" (those are the words of Paul Washer himself). Yet he himself neither takes the time to communicate, consider a cause or distribute to it.

It's not about giving to them that don't ask of you (after sounding many trumpets) Especially when you're ignoring those who do ask of you.

Men speak well of Paul washer as they have always done concerning the false prophets. Beware of Paul Washer and the majority of his followers (who hardly even read the KJV bible). :eek:

chette777 07-31-2009 05:05 AM

I am reminded of a rich ministry in Texas (Hagee) to which I requested a movie for free seeing I couldn't afford the $39 donation for it. and I told them it would be used for our ministry here in the Philippines to reach people for Christ.

They replied they would pray for God to increase my wealth as Christians ministers should not be poor. then told me they don't have a budget to send free videos to missionaries.

I was flabbergasted at their response.

What is so strange is I have asked poor ministries for items to use in the mission field and they sent them plus extra Items I didn't even ask for, free of charge and they paid the postage.

just goes to show you these prosperity guys are like the rich of the world they want to hang on to all they have. you guys would not believe the amounts of my personal income I give to minister to others here. We pay for the extra the church can't cover (from our own pocket sometimes hundreds of dollars), we give to church workers sacks of rice and monetary gifts so they can buy food, as well as clothing and medications when they are sick. I maintain a first aid kit and wrap the woulds of any here in our area free of charge. I give them medications for Diarrhea, flu symptoms, allergies, sometimes I have given it all away then I need it and there is none.

The secret to true riches in Christ is to give what you have away, carry your cross, and follow Christ.

Luke 08-02-2009 04:10 PM

I had the same issue with Jack Chick. I bought several of his "Light of the World" DVD's and so did my church in Australia. I emailed asking him if I could copy the DVD since we couldn't afford the P&H and didn't want to give out copies to people who might not give them back. They replied and said NO, although they did it very graciously.


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