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-   -   Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403)

Bro. Parrish 07-04-2009 09:17 AM

Folks, there's always lots of conjecture related to these passages, that's why I stated early on it's hard to be dogmatic about any of this... but just for consideration, there is another passage in Ezekiel where God had some men "marked" and others killed.

"And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." Ezek. 9:3-4

So here the MARK was in the forehead which is kind of interesting when you compare that with Rev. 13:1, :16, :17...just food for thought. :)

greenbear 07-04-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 23233)
I just don't think it was so fair that you all jumped the band wagon and called me a racist and bigot. even some referred to white supremacy of which I definitely don't hold to. I may believe what I said to be true by my study of God's word. but I do not hold racist hatred towards Hamites.

It was quite cruel of you all to label me such.

I apology for it was not my attempt to give such.

Chette,

I don't think I said or did anything to label you a racist or a bigot. I jumped off the band wagon in this thread of mingling together the two topics of Noah's curse on Canaan and American slavery of blacks. I'm not saying you hold that position, either. I saw I had unthinkingly used lingo that tied American blacks with the curse on Canaan and when I saw that I jumped off that band wagon as fast as I could because I saw I was wrong. I don't even think Noah's curse is even in effect today. I in no way meant to imply you were a racist or bigot by any thing I wrote. In fact, I feel quite the opposite is true. I view you as a brother in Christ who spends his life bringing Christ to tribes of people in cultures steeped in paganism and Islam. I don't consider myself to be racist or bigoted, either. I think our viewpoints are probably pretty similar.

This is how I see it:

For the most part, the ancestors of blacks in America today were brought here as slaves in unimaginable conditions. It's horrible beyond comprehension. Yet, slavery in terrible, cruel and inhumane conditions has been practiced for most of human history by the descendants of all three of Noah's sons. They have all been enslaved and done the enslaving to themselves and each of the others. Africans defeated and enslaved other africans and sold them off to the slave traders, the arabs were heavily into this slave trade as they have been throughout history. This idea of American whites making reparations to American blacks is absurd. Why should I have to make reparation for something I never did to an individual or group alive today to whom the offense was not done? Ridiculous! It's impossible for every nation to make reparations for enslaving every other nation at some point in history.

God didn't condemn slavery in the Bible. He doesn't do the enslaving, either. Fallen man has done the enslaving. God allowed His people Israel to be enslaved by other nations on different occasions as punishment for their unfaithfulness to Him. To question why God allowed slavery in general is no different than questioning why God allows evil to continue in this world. The answer is that if He were to wipe out evil he would have to wipe out the entire human race. He is not done saving people out of the world, yet.

Somehow, Ham was the father of the black nations. I don't know how they became black but scripture and ancient and modern historical research seem to support it. People can read among other things bible dictionaries and encyclopedias and even wiki it if they want to study it. Noah's curse was upon Canaan, why is not clear, but Noah could not curse Ham whom God had already blessed so he cursed one of Ham's sons. From what I can tell, all of Ham's descendants were black so the curse was not on all blacks. I don't think you have said it is. It just confuses things when the issues of black slavery in America and the curse of Canaan are either blended or not distinguished as separate topics which I'm not saying you did but it happened on this thread.

I think Bro. Presswoods explanation of what Ham did to Noah is right on, except that I think Noah's wife may have been there, too. Ham didn't just accidently glance upon his father's nakedness (which could include Noah's wife's nakedness) and look away. He also went and told his brothers so they would look, too. If that wasn't the reason, he would have just covered up his father himself or just not repeated what he accidently saw. But that's not clear and not worth arguing about. I am with you about the sons of God issue in Ge 6, of course. It is not possible that they were the sons of Seth's "godly line". That's a topic for another thread, though I'm not sure I would want to get involved in another thread about Gen. 6 any time soon.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I was judging you or abandoning you to other people's judgement. I was just correcting my own position.

blessings,
Jen

greenbear 07-04-2009 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 23243)
Chette,

I don't think I said or did anything to label you a racist or a bigot. I jumped off the band wagon in this thread of mingling together the two topics of Noah's curse on Canaan and American slavery of blacks. I'm not saying you hold that position, either. I saw I had unthinkingly used lingo that tied American blacks with the curse on Canaan and when I saw that I jumped off that band wagon as fast as I could because I saw I was wrong. I don't even think Noah's curse is even in effect today. I in no way meant to imply you were a racist or bigot by any thing I wrote. In fact, I feel quite the opposite is true. I view you as a brother in Christ who spends his life bringing Christ to tribes of people in cultures steeped in paganism and Islam. I don't consider myself to be racist or bigoted, either. I think our viewpoints are probably pretty similar.

This is how I see it:

For the most part, the ancestors of blacks in America today were brought here as slaves in unimaginable conditions. It's horrible beyond comprehension. Yet, slavery in terrible, cruel and inhumane conditions has been practiced for most of human history by the descendants of all three of Noah's sons. They have all been enslaved and done the enslaving to themselves and each of the others. Africans defeated and enslaved other africans and sold them off to the slave traders, the arabs were heavily into this slave trade as they have been throughout history. This idea of American whites making reparations to American blacks is absurd. Why should I have to make reparation for something I never did to an individual or group alive today to whom the offense was not done? Ridiculous! It's impossible for every nation to make reparations for enslaving every other nation at some point in history.

God didn't condemn slavery in the Bible. He doesn't do the enslaving, either. Fallen man has done the enslaving. God allowed His people Israel to be enslaved by other nations on different occasions as punishment for their unfaithfulness to Him. To question why God allowed slavery in general is no different than questioning why God allows evil to continue in this world. The answer is that if He were to wipe out evil he would have to wipe out the entire human race. He is not done saving people out of the world, yet.

Somehow, Cush was the father of the black nations. I don't know how they became black but scripture and ancient and modern historical research seem to support it. People can read among other things bible dictionaries and encyclopedias and even wiki it if they want to study it. Noah's curse was upon Canaan, why is not clear, but Noah could not curse Ham whom God had already blessed so he cursed one of Ham's sons. From what I can tell, all of Ham's descendants were black so the curse was not on all blacks. I don't think you have said it is. It just confuses things when the issues of black slavery in America and the curse of Canaan are either blended or not distinguished as separate topics which I'm not saying you did but it happened on this thread.

I think Bro. Presswoods explanation of what Ham did to Noah is right on, except that I think Noah's wife may have been there, too. Ham didn't just accidently glance upon his father's nakedness (which could include Noah's wife's nakedness) and look away. He also went and told his brothers so they would look, too. If that wasn't the reason, he would have just covered up his father himself or just not repeated what he accidently saw. But that's not clear and not worth arguing about. I am with you about the sons of God issue in Ge 6, of course. It is not possible that they were the sons of Seth's "godly line". That's a topic for another thread, though I'm not sure I would want to get involved in another thread about Gen. 6 any time soon.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I was judging you or abandoning you to other people's judgement. I was just correcting my own position.

blessings,
Jen

I confused myself. I meant Cush, Ham's son and Canaan's brother is father of the black nations, not Ham is the father of black nations. That would mean, if I understand correctly, that Noah's curse has nothing to do with the black races, whatsoever.

Brother Presswood 07-04-2009 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 23245)
I confused myself. I meant Cush, Ham's son and Canaan's brother is father of the black nations, not Ham is the father of black nations. That would mean, if I understand correctly, that Noah's curse has nothing to do with the black races, whatsoever.

Noah’s prophecy did not result in a special curse upon black people. Ham had four sons. These were:
Cush – the progenitor of the Ethiopians.
Mizriam – the progenitor of the Egyptians
Phut – the progenitor of the Libyans and peoples of Africa
Canaan – the progenitor of the Canaanites

Since the curse was specifically levelled at Canaan and not Phut, there exists absolutely no racial implications whatsoever within the curse. In fact, the skin texture of Israelites and Canaanites at the time of Joshua’s invasion was probably very similar. The problem concerning the Canaanites was not in the color of their skin but rather in the condition of their hearts.

greenbear 07-04-2009 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23246)
Noah’s prophecy did not result in a special curse upon black people. Ham had four sons. These were:
Cush – the progenitor of the Ethiopians.
Mizriam – the progenitor of the Egyptians
Phut – the progenitor of the Libyans and peoples of Africa
Canaan – the progenitor of the Canaanites

Since the curse was specifically levelled at Canaan and not Phut, there exists absolutely no racial implications whatsoever within the curse. In fact, the skin texture of Israelites and Canaanites at the time of Joshua’s invasion was probably very similar. The problem concerning the Canaanites was not in the color of their skin but rather in the condition of their hearts.

Brother Pressman,

In my post# 43 I clarified that I confused myself, that Cush was the father of the black nations, not Ham, and therefore Noah's curse was not upon the black nations but upon Ham's son Canaan's descendants which are not black. I don't know how you maintain that Phut was the only progenitor of the peoples of Africa, it seems clear that Ethiopians came from Cush as well as others.

And you are new to this board so you don't know me. If you had been here to read posts I've made on other threads you would probably know that I have never confused the color of someone's skin with the condition of their hearts. But thanks for the info.

Brother Presswood 07-04-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 23247)
Brother Pressman,

In my post# 43 I clarified that I confused myself, that Cush was the father of the black nations, not Ham, and therefore Noah's curse was not upon the black nations but upon Ham's son Canaan's descendants which are not black. I don't know how you maintain that Phut was the only progenitor of the peoples of Africa, it seems clear that Ethiopians came from Cush as well as others.

And you are new to this board so you don't know me. If you had been here to read posts I've made on other threads you would probably know that I have never confused the color of someone's skin with the condition of their hearts. But thanks for the info.

I apologize if you thought that my post was a direct response to you. I simply cut and pasted a portion of my writing here in the thread. I certainly did not mean to imply you compared skin color with spirituality. Even had I thought that, and I do not, I would not have been so tactless as to bring it up here. My desire is simply to discuss the issue, not attack the person.

That Phut fathered the African nations is something that I gleaned from Wilmington's Guide to the Bible by Dr. Harold Wilmington. Cush, as you stated, fathered the Ethiopians and more than likely some others. I am not going to be dogmatic either way.

Again, I apologize for the confusion.

greenbear 07-04-2009 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23249)
I apologize if you thought that my post was a direct response to you. I simply cut and pasted a portion of my writing here in the thread. I certainly did not mean to imply you compared skin color with spirituality. Even had I thought that, and I do not, I would not have been so tactless as to bring it up here. My desire is simply to discuss the issue, not attack the person.

That Phut fathered the African nations is something that I gleaned from Wilmington's Guide to the Bible by Dr. Harold Wilmington. Cush, as you stated, fathered the Ethiopians and more than likely some others. I am not going to be dogmatic either way.

Again, I apologize for the confusion.

No problem, brother Pressman. I also apologize for taking something you wrote personally when it was not meant that way. My knowledge about the origins of African or black skinned nations, other than a shallow understanding of what scripture says, is based on a few paragraphs out of bible dictionaries and wikipedia rather than any kind of deep study of the topic. I was just trying to express my general perspective about "race" and slavery in the bible and throughout history.

chette777 07-04-2009 06:21 PM

Thanks Jen apology accepted. It wasn't so much your words as others. But your apology may represent some of the others as well.

chette777 07-04-2009 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23246)
The problem concerning the Canaanites was not in the color of their skin but rather in the condition of their hearts.

This is true and if you will go to Israel and visit some of the museums meant to preserve Canaanite culture you will see Phallic symbols and Sex was used in their religious ceremonies and prevalent in their culture as well. this is why God was driving them out of the land to give it to Israel.

So if Canaan son of Ham is the father of the Canaanites there were strong sexual perversion going on in that Line that Noah had cursed. there are plenty of curses in the Bible that pass to the sons and future generations.

tonybones2112 07-04-2009 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenbear (Post 23245)
I confused myself. I meant Cush, Ham's son and Canaan's brother is father of the black nations, not Ham is the father of black nations. That would mean, if I understand correctly, that Noah's curse has nothing to do with the black races, whatsoever.

The curse placed by Noah was that the Canaanites would serve the the children of Israel(servants to the Egyptians), not white American Gentiles. We appear nowhere in Scripture as prophecy, neither does the Body of Christ.

Grace and peace sister.

Tony

greenbear 07-04-2009 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 (Post 23271)
The curse placed by Noah was that the Canaanites would serve the the children of Israel(servants to the Egyptians), not white American Gentiles. We appear nowhere in Scripture as prophecy, neither does the Body of Christ.

Grace and peace sister.

Tony

Tony,

Where did I ever say that Canaanites would serve white American gentiles or that America appears anywhere in prophecy? :confused:
I think I'll lay low for a while.

Jen

chette777 07-05-2009 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybones2112 (Post 23271)
The curse placed by Noah was that the Canaanites would serve the the children of Israel(servants to the Egyptians), not white American Gentiles.

1) Israel is no where in the picture either at the point of Noah's cursing Canaan. you would really need to stretch that to make it fit Israel. Everyone living at that time would be considered Gentiles

2)No one said anything about White American Gentiles. for your info there were black slave owners as well in the south. few granted but they did exist. we mentioned Jhephite nations and Hamite nations. and if the curse went to his sons as you indicate by using the descendant name "Canaanites". Then you agree the curse covered more than just one man but to a whole Nation of people.

this next statement is not a Racist thing or a bigoted view in anyway nor is it being dogmatic but believing the word of God for what it says.

3) Ge 9:25-27 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant(referring to Shem's line). God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant(referring to Japheth's line). this says he sill serve his Brethren which would be Japheth and Shem, not just Shem. And Shem is not Israel. Japheth did live in the Tenting grounds of the American line of Shem's descendants.

Now if in fact Ham is the father of the black Nation's as it has been taught since before the birth of Christ (this is not a white supremest teaching by any means. this was a Hebrew teaching). This would put Hamite descendants as slaves to Japheth when they had lived in the tents of Shem. the only Historical record(not Biblical history I agree but where world history lines up with Bible I will take it) we have of Japheth's descendants living in the tents of Shem is the Japhethite Nations (England, France and Germany) conquering of What is called North America. There is another name a native one for North America I just don't remember it off hand. I will look and see if I can find that info.

you will notice Noah blessed Shem and Japheth for what they did. he blessed Shem with the Priesthood. and from him came the religions of Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. These were all started by Shemite descendants.

And he blessed Japheth with enlarged lands. it was the Japheth Nations that traveled the world and colonized and brought it to where it was today. there is Archeological evidence of White nations from Northern to Southern China and Mongolia, white races found buried in tombs of South America 1,000 years before the Spanish, they are believed to be Roman descendants. There have even been findings of them in North America before Leif Erickson ventured down into the area of Maine.

George 07-05-2009 12:15 PM

Re: "Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"
 
Brother Tim said:
Quote:

Where are the posters, George and others, that examine the exactness of God's words, and yet are silent with this absolute distortion of Scripture?”
Brother Tim,

In accordance with what I said in my Post #40 this Thread:
Quote:

Brother Tim,

WHY have you singled me out (out of ALL the "active" members)? Am I obligated (in any way) to comment on every single issue that crops up on this Forum?

I do not have time today, but I will answer your question - and then I will have a "question" for you!
I now have the time to answer your biased question:

I don’t know what prompted you to “single me out” of ALL of those who Post on the AV1611 Bible Forums, but I am highly disappointed that you have! Is this HOW Christian brethren are to “frame” questions – with sly “insinuations” and “inferences”, rather than PLAIN SPEECH? Is this the result of a “Formal Education” (i.e. SCHOOLING), that instead of coming out and voicing your “displeasure” or “disapproval” of someone (or something they may have said), that you instead, take an “offhand” swipe at them in forming your question? Hmmm? :tsk:

Now I will tell you WHY I don’t get involved in over 90% of the Threads and Posts on this Forum.

If you will notice, I hardly ever get involved in frivolous issues; childish or idiotic questions; or (in the present case) matters having to do with Biblical issues for which there are so few Scriptures to support my conviction or personal opinion. In other words I try to avoid “speculation” when it comes to spiritual issues.

There are many Threads on this Forum that have generated great controversy which I have either avoided totally, or have had very little to say about.

I avoided the issue of the “Creation debate” (“Gap” or no “Gap”) totally. I try to avoid the “unanswerable”, i.e. WHO was Noah’s wife (from WHAT “bloodline” did she come)? WHO were Shem’s, Ham’s, and Japheth’s wives (from WHAT “bloodline” did they come from)? WHO KNOWS? The Bible doesn’t tell us – so WHY SPECULATE?

You will notice that I avoided the “Sons of God” controversy also. WHY? Because there is NOT enough Scripture to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt WHAT I personally believe, so I AVOID the issue! That is WHY I almost always AVOID “prophetic” controversies also. If a Scriptural issue involves “SPECULATION on my part I try (real hard) to avoid “discussing” it. WHAT for? WHERE is the EDIFICATION? Hmmm? WHERE is the PROFIT? I may have a “personal opinion” on a matter, but WHAT is that worth? :confused:

If I claim that I want to know what God has to “SAY” about a matter and NOT what some other man “thinks” what God may “MEAN” – WHY would I offer my personal OPINION or worse yet SPECULATE about spiritual issues? I would be a HYPOCRITE if I operated in that manner!

I may hold a “personal conviction” about a Biblical issue such as the “Rapture”, but there are so few Scriptures regarding the “translation” of the body of Christ (it’s a MYSTERY!), that I am NOT going to “bicker” and “argue” about it – not for very long! Many of the things that the brethren choose to “fight” over just aren’t worth “fighting over” (i.e. length of hair, head covering, men’s apparel/women’s apparel, diet, etc., etc.), and so I CHOOSE NOT to engage in many of those “debates”. When I comment on this Forum I try to CHOOSE those issues that I believe to be the “WEIGHTIER MATTERS” [Mathew 23:23], and when I do comment I try real hard to present what God has to “SAY” about an issue, and NOT what I “think” He “MEANS”! :(

The purpose of the Bible is for us to know WHO GOD IS and for us to know WHAT HIS WILL is for us. WHY should I try to INSERT my “private opinions” or “personal speculations” alongside of His Holy words? This is one of the things that “gets me” about modern day Christians! Look at all of the people on this Forum who are constantly “recommending” this man or that man; or some man’s books, or videos, or audio tapes and CD’s, or periodicals, papers, and essays! And look how they always WARN people to be “careful”, because the man that they are personallyrecommending” MAY NOT be doctrinally sound on some spiritual issues, or he may CORRECT the Holy Bible here and there in his writings, but other than that he’s OK! :confused:

WHY? WHY is it necessary to study some man’s writings, if he is known to CORRECT (CHANGE) the Holy words of God? WHY not just study the Holy Scriptures? The emphasis on men today goes along with our cultural emphasis on CELEBRITY! WHAT is it that these men know about the “Which Bible Issue”, that Will Kinney, Bible Protector, Steven Avery, and others here on the Forum don’t know? Hmmm? What’s the difference? CELEBRITY! It’s NOT that the Bible says there is no need for teachers of the Holy word of God, it’s that modern day Christians have ELEVATED these men to the point where they “think” that these Bible teachers have REPLACED the Holy Spirit when it comes to true spiritual “discernment”, “understanding” and “wisdom”! :eek:

I can teach facts about the Bible. I can teach “doctrine”. But, what I CAN NOT DO is teach true spiritual DISCERNMENT, UNDERSTANDING, and WISDOM! Only God (the Holy Spirit) can teach these things [1Corinthians 2:1-16]. This is WHY the modern day “Christian” Bible School model is FAILING! :( “Facts” about the Bible and denominational “doctrine” is being taught to a bunch of young men who think that “knowledge” about Biblical issues is a “SUBSTITUTE” for genuine spiritual discernment, understanding, and wisdom! :tsk:

Modern day Christian churches and institutions have EMULATED the “world’s educational institutions” (accreditation, degrees, and certification), with the attendant result that the “ministry” has turned into a PROFESSION”, just like any other “Profession” (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.).

My “ministry” has centered on three things: trying to edify the brethren (wherever they may be, and whoever they may be); honoring the Holy words of God; and Glorifying my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I try to keep “focused” on the two main things that I believe the apostle Paul emphasized all during his ministry: SOUND DOCTRINE (the “whole counsel of God” – NOT just one or two particular issues) and a BELIEVER’S CONDUCT! “Hamites”, “Canaanites”, “Race”, and just WHO were the wives of Noah’s sons do NOT fall under the category of what I believe to be “the weightier matters”, and so I AVOID commenting.

A while back you posted a Thread on water baptism - Thread: AV1611 Bible Forums > Doctrine > Is water baptism for today?) After brother Tony’s short reply you, inquired of brother tonybones about his belief concerning water baptism:

Brother Tim's Post #14:
Quote:

I would hope that any (one at this moment-Tony) would expound on the reason why we today should not be baptized.”
Do you remember my comment after your Post?

George’s Post #16:
Quote:

“I personally don't want to see a "debate" over water baptism; we all know what he believes - what will such a debate accomplish? Who will be "edified"? Is the purpose going to be to "isolate" a fellow brother in Christ and possibly drive him away? I want no part in this.”
I already knew that a “discussion” on the issue of water baptism would not “edify” anyone and would be of NOprofit” to the brethren, but you proceeded any way! I tried to stay out of the debate, but your comments (and other people’s) about Dispensationalism required a reply in defense of “moderate” Dispensationalism from me.

You see, I have been fairly “consistent” in trying to AVOID getting involved in controversial issues that are of little or no benefit to the brethren – UNLESS it involves ADDING, SUBTRACTING, CHANGING or DENIGRATING the King James Bible; or out and out clear and unequivocal HERESY; or a "stranger's" MISCONDUCT (disrespect, name calling, etc.) on the Forum, I generally stay out of most of the "controversies" that arise on the Forum.

Have I answered your “question” to your "satisfaction"? If I haven't, I will be happy to "expound" some more. :rolleyes:

And now I have a QUESTION for you:


Quote:

Can you explain to me WHY - “Christians”, who have received a “formal education (“Christian”College, University, Seminary, or “Bible” School), are much more willing to TOLERATE LEAVEN”, than those of us who have NOT received a “formal education”? :confused:

Bro. Parrish 07-05-2009 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 23281)
[FONT=Verdana]I don’t know what prompted you to “single me out” of ALL of those who Post on the AV1611 Bible Forums, but I am highly disappointed that you have! Is this HOW Christian brethren are to “frame” questions – with sly “insinuations” and “inferences”, rather than PLAIN SPEECH? Is this the result of a “Formal Education” (i.e. SCHOOLING), that instead of coming out and voicing your “displeasure” or “disapproval” of someone (or something they may have said), that you instead, take an “offhand” swipe at them in forming your question? Hmmm?

Well, isn't it obvious brother?
I think Bro. Tim "called you out" because you are obviously seen by some as a leader here. Not me, (I wrote you off as a leader a long time ago because of the way you always seem to end up yelling and screaming at people for no reason) but certainly you seem to have a "following" here, wouldn't you agree, hmmm?

Or maybe it would be better described as a "keyboard clique." :rolleyes:

Personally, since you don't want to discuss the topic, I don't know why you don't just stop bellowing like a BULL FROG and buzz off. Unless maybe you are just protecting your little "buddy" Chette again. After all, we have seen you freak out and jabber on for hours about far more stupid things than this topic. :eek: :eek: :eek:

George 07-05-2009 03:31 PM

Re: "Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 23285)
Well, isn't it obvious brother?
I think Bro. Tim "called you out" because you are obviously seen by some as a leader here. Not me, (I wrote you off as a leader a long time ago because of the way you always seem to end up yelling and screaming at people for no reason) but certainly you seem to have a "following" here, wouldn't you agree, hmmm?

Or maybe it would be better described as a "keyboard clique." :rolleyes:

Personally, since you don't want to discuss the topic, I don't know why you don't just stop bellowing like a BULL FROG and buzz off. Unless maybe you are just protecting your little "buddy" Chette again. After all, we have seen you freak out and jabber on for hours about far more stupid things than this topic. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Parish,

Thanks so much for the refreshing and most edifying response! :rolleyes: However, since I wasn't addressing you - WHY have you chosen to BUTT in on something that is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! :confused: As they would say in Hawaii "WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM BRO"?

I can "feel" the "love" and the "goodwill" oozing out from every pour of your body brother. Do keep it up, and soon every one will know just what kind of a "Christian" you really are! :)

Proverbs 15:12 A scorner loveth not one that reproveth him: neither will he go unto the wise.

custer 07-05-2009 03:59 PM

I thought Bro. Parrish's last post was SERIOUSLY "refreshing" and "edifying!" (I laughed for the better part of an hour after reading it!)

Really, George, I feel very sorry for you...you are the only one who can't see that it's YOU that has the "problem." And, why do you always say that things on here are none of other people's business??? This is an open forum; threads that are open for all members to read ARE NOT private exchanges between just two people!

Like I said, everybody (except YOU) can "feel" all the "love" and "goodwill" from every one of your caustic responses!

And besides, Tim said that you "examine the exactness of God's words..." THAT is a great compliment!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

Bro. Parrish 07-05-2009 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 23292)
Parish,
As they would say in Hawaii "WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM BRO"?

Well I don't know, let me aim that back at you...

WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM BRO?

George, I'm not angry at you brother, but I have already warned you about your overreactions and incessant hacking of Christians on this forum, it is nauseating and I'm sorry but it is what it is. I have seen you do this to Winman and many others simply because they got on your "bad side," and you can howl at the moon and eat green cheese, but somebody has to tell you brother. If you can't take it, THEN DON'T DISH IT OUT. :cool:

Now you can puff up like a blowfish and blast Bro. Tim if you want, but I happen to like the guy, I think he is one of the nicest people on this forum, far nicer than your little buddy Chette who is CONSTANTLY making cheap shots at others here, and DON'T TELL ME he doesn't because I have seen it going on for months. Like I said before, I happen to think all of you bring something good to the forum, I love ALL OF YOU (yes including you Chette) and I have defended ALL OF YOU at one time or another, but I cannot sit by and remain silent while we bash, scream and yell at each other in the name of Christ, IT SICKENS ME, and who knows how unbelievers feel when they visit here and see it? :(

Again, I'm not angry at you brother, and you can scream at me and post up all the Bible verses you want until you are blue in the face, but I WILL stand up to you or anyone else who makes a habit out of this, because people like you don't intimidate me George, and they never have. :)

peopleoftheway 07-05-2009 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by custer (Post 23295)
I thought Bro. Parrish's last post was SERIOUSLY "refreshing" and "edifying!" (I laughed for the better part of an hour after reading it!)

Really, George, I feel very sorry for you...you are the only one who can't see that it's YOU that has the "problem." And, why do you always say that things on here are none of other people's business??? This is an open forum; threads that are open for all members to read ARE NOT private exchanges between just two people!

Like I said, everybody (except YOU) can "feel" all the "love" and "goodwill" from every one of your caustic responses!

And besides, Tim said that you "examine the exactness of God's words..." THAT is a great compliment!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com


How on earth can you find a post like that "refreshing" or "edifying" and then openly laugh for an hour over it?
Because you have had run ins with George?
Your a Hypocrite, you both are, complaining about what Brother George has said or done or as it was put his "caustic" responses, then on the other face turn right round and scorn the man in a worse manner.
As for the keyboard cliche Brother Parrish in this war that we as Christians are in the midst of against the enemy the devil himself, I count George as a Brother I would stand beside and He and his family have blessed me in so many ways I cant even begin to explain. So if in turn that makes me part of the "Clique" so be it.
It really is disgraceful how you can both complain about Georges behaviour, his words or his posts and then behave in a worse manner than your complaining about.


Proverbs 15:18 A wrathful man stirreth up strife: but he that is slow to anger appeaseth strife.

George 07-05-2009 05:17 PM

Re: " Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 23298)
Well I don't know, let me aim that back at you...

WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM BRO?

George, I'm not angry at you brother, but I have already warned you about your overreactions and incessant hacking of Christians on this forum, it is nauseating and I'm sorry but it is what it is. I have seen you do this to Winman and many others simply because they got on your "bad side," and you can howl at the moon and eat green cheese, but somebody has to tell you brother. If you can't take it, THEN DON'T DISH IT OUT. :cool:

Now you can puff up like a blowfish and blast Bro. Tim if you want, but I happen to like the guy, I think he is one of the nicest people on this forum, far nicer than your little buddy Chette who is CONSTANTLY making cheap shots at others here, and DON'T TELL ME he doesn't because I have seen it going on for months. Like I said before, I happen to think all of you bring something good to the forum, I love ALL OF YOU (yes including you Chette) and I have defended ALL OF YOU at one time or another, but I cannot sit by and remain silent while we bash, scream and yell at each other in the name of Christ, IT SICKENS ME, and who knows how unbelievers feel when they visit here and see it? :(

Again, I'm not angry at you brother, and you can scream at me and post up all the Bible verses you want until you are blue in the face, but I WILL stand up to you or anyone else who makes a habit out of this, because people like you don't intimidate me George, and they never have. :)


Parrish,

You are the one that engages in PERSONAL ATTACKS. I deal in facts and issues, and when you have NO Scriptural answers, or are unable to "judge" a matter according to the truth, you retreat into your PERSONAL ATTACK MODE, since you can not deal with issues.

If you don't like my "TONE", that's TOUGH! I grow weary of these sly, effeminate, slights. I'd much rather have someone say something straight up and to my face - but it would be nice if they could deal with the "ISSUES", instead of calling me names (like you do) or "insinuate" like brother Tim does.

There was NO "CALL" for Tim to "single me out" for criticism for NOT commenting on a Thread, just like there was NO "CALL" for you to "single me out" when I didn't want to comment on the "water baptism" Thread!

I'll comment on what I want to comment on, and no amount of "pushing" or "shoving", or "goading" from you or Tim is going to change that! It's my business as to what I comment on, and NOBODY ELSE'S!

Your conduct here almost convinces me that there might actually be something to "Psychiatry" (paranoia?), but NOT QUITE! :rolleyes: NO, your not "paranoid" - your just a simple "scorner", who hasn't learned to mind his own business, or keep his mouth shut! :mad:

Proverbs 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Brother Presswood 07-05-2009 06:04 PM

I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.

Bro. Parrish 07-05-2009 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23305)
I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.

I apologize you had to hear it Bro. Presswood, but this has been brewing for a while. George has taken it upon himself to be the "growling grandaddy" of the forum, and as you can see he will now begin to attack me just a viciously as he has many others. This sets an example for others to follow. It's an ugly pattern, but someone eventually has to draw a line and stand up to internet bullies. :(

chette777 07-05-2009 06:57 PM

BroPresswood,

This is a good site.

but we have those who are immature spiritually and often Proverbs 12:18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.

George,

I am sorry for the actions of some of the brethren.

I understand Presswood's concern as some members are constantly on the attack and negative to anything said.

I think Tim thought you might be able to clear up the mess a little with some timely wisdom. and you did. this issue is not worth losing fellowship over. I was quite taken at their quick attack over what I believed and then they post that is is wrong to attack someone for what they believe.

Anyway, I tried to keep civil as I know you try to.

I gave those two Romans 15:1 as a reference in another thread when they started a heated debate and personal attacks. what did I get? attacked and accused and other things. I give up on the one and pray.

Brother Presswood, don't let a few bad apple ruin your bushel of hope here.

AND BROPARRISH,

OH MY FLESH IS RILED AT THIS MOMENT FOR WHAT YOU JUST POSTED ABOUT BROTHER GEORGE. I WILL LOG OUT TO GO BE WITH THE LORD UNTIL THIS PASSES

Renee 07-05-2009 07:25 PM

Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.

Proverbs 27:15 A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike.


Shall we get back to Noah and Ham ---Noah's Curse?

George 07-05-2009 07:51 PM

Re: " Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23305)
I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.


Aloha brother Presswood,

I too want to apologize for these "happenings", but this has been brewing for some time, and the only thing I ask is that you examine the Posts and "judge righteous judgment" in this matter.

Brother Parrish says he's NOT "angry" at me - then WHY did he go off on a "RANT" on me and start calling me names, over a Post that I made to brother Tim? And WHY did he "DRAG" brother Chette Nichols name in on his "RANT", and denigrate brother Chette - when he wasn't even mentioned in my Post?

For some time brother Parrish has been "ragging" on a few of us on the AV1611 Bible Forums (brother tonybones; brother Chette Nichols; and myself). When he no longer can defend his beliefs with Scripture, he starts to get "personal", and begins to make "unfounded accusations", and ends up "calling people names".

If you check brother Parrish's personal "profile" on the AV1611 Bible Forums, you will see that, although he has only been a member of the Forum (joined (since 10/25/08) for about half of the time that I have been a member (joined 03/07/08), he has Posted 937 Posts (3.70 Posts per day) to my 860 Posts (1.77 Posts per day), or in other words brother Parrish is posting more than TWICE AS MANY Posts per day than I am, and if you examine many of those Posts they are filled with "personal attacks"; "slander"; "name calling"; and "personal invective" against a few of the brethren who have been active on the Forum. This latest "RANT" is quite typical of those "personal attacks".

It is my hope that you will stick around and examine our Threads and Posts to see if what I say is true. I have read some of your Posts, and I believe that you would be a welcome addition to the Forum.

chette777 07-05-2009 10:22 PM

Parish,

Parish, you have led threads off topic and have attacked peoples character, cursed and blessed in the same sentence, and have shown you are unrepentant of your childish antics.

I will not share with you what was going on in my heart an hour ago, for it is a shame that you would provoke such feelings in people and you should be the one who is ashamed of your conduct over the last few months on this forum. but you seem to glory in your immaturity, slander and false accusations.

Parish And Custer,

Apparently neither of you can judge with righteous judgement when reading any mans words. And as you have taken offense of George's word's when in fact no offense should have been taken by either of you.

Not just once but on many occasions because you read into someone's post without considering the fact that you don't have their intonation, eye contact, body language or emotions to help you make the right mental judgement as to the person's attitude or tone.

i.e. I quote my words from thread "Kent Hovind update" . . . "be careful of man worship" to which Parish replied that I accused him of worshipping men. when in fact it was a warning, not an accusation. there are plenty more examples for any that would like to search and see on many of the places Parish has posted.

George has been civil in every response including those where his rile shows through. and any man with any spiritual fortitude and knowledge would and should be able to see that.

George has studied his Bible for many years and quite possibly a lot more many hours than either of you two ingrates have spent in twice your life times put together.

And anyone who would laugh for over an hour at anything that was posted shows his true spiritual worth to be childish and immature.

I suggest the two of you grow up in the Lord.

Brother Presswood,

I agree with George stick around you can be a benefit and a blessing to us here who are mature enough to desire daily growth and identity in Christ.

Diligent 07-06-2009 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23305)
I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.

If you've gone through lots of forums, I'm sure you've noted that without a very heavy hand of a moderator, most forum activity is driven by disagreement.

The rest of this post is to the plural "you," not specifically Bro. Presswood.

I, too, am less than pleased with the amount of vitriol present in many posts here, but I learned a long time ago that merely settling on the KJV as one's final authority doesn't automatically fix men up.

However, I do think that the most hard-edge posting tends to be limited to a few contentious threads, like this one, where people are being forced to examine how much of their own bigotry they have read into Scripture. (A side note: if the preceding sentence immediately makes you want to defend yourself, you are too sensitive. I am not singling anyone out.)

There is an option -- someone who routinely dislikes posts from a particular individual can easily ignore them by viewing their profile and clicking "add to your ignore list."

I'm trying to walk a fine line here. I don't want to ban people just because I disagree with them (I'd be the only one left here if I did) or because they post in a certain "tone" I don't like. I also don't want a "free for all" forum.

I have seriously considered, several times, taking the whole forum off-line because I am concerned that it doesn't do anything to help the purpose of av1611.com. And then I get a new post from brother Will or brother Forrest that reminds me why I started the forum in the first place.

I suppose the bottom line is that the benefits are outweighing the drawbacks, and I really don't have the time to be a forum nanny anyway. I know some people will not find it enjoyable to participate here if I am not acting as a referee between certain folks, but I don't have the time or inclination to do that, and the only other option is to close the board, which I don't want to do.

Forrest 07-06-2009 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23305)
I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.

Greetings brother...I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but I do wish to put you in remembrance of these things.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We are not ignorant of the devils devices. He always seeks to destroy, conquer, and divide. You've got the Spirit and therefore can discern the truth. I hope you choose to stick around.

greenbear 07-06-2009 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Presswood (Post 23305)
I'll be honest with you good people; I think I may have made an incorrect assumption about this forum. I thought surely, absent the attacks and criticism of the anti-KJV crowd, we could have some wonderful fellowship and edifying discussions. I see that you are busy here attacking one another and not the issues at all. If I wanted to fight, I could have that on the other forums.

Pastor Bob,

I think your first impression that caused you to register on this forum was the right one. I believe you caught us having a bad day. I have been helped tremendously by this board in getting back on track in my Christian walk. There is fellowship and edifying discussion to be found here. Generally, I have found the active members to have love one for another. I know I have experienced the love of Christ here. I've noticed there are a lot of drive by posters who come here for the sole purpose of causing disruptions and bashing the KJBO position so it's not always peaceful. I guess there's no solution to that since it is a public forum. I can see you have a lot to bring to this forum and I sincerely hope you return.

Jen

greenbear 07-06-2009 06:03 PM

And not only that, not to be judgemental, but has anybody visited the originator of this thread, Mary's website?

We need to smarten up, I think.

http://www.amwalkerleather.com/catalog361215.html

custer 07-06-2009 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 23317)

And anyone who would laugh for over an hour at anything that was posted shows his true spiritual worth to be childish and immature.

Well, there's something else that's laughable - that YOU think YOU are qualified/capable of judging my "spiritual worth!"

Apparently, this warrants a lesson in what even a toddler knows to be true - that laughter comes from JOY and/or MERRIMENT!

The very first thoughts that I had when you (Chette) and peopleoftheway were surprised at my laughter were:
1. It's called PEACE and JOY which are characteristic of the kingdom of God (Romans 14:17) and are part of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22.)
2. It's called being MERRY, and surely you've heard that "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine" (Prov. 17:22) or that "A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance" (Prov. 15:13.)
3. It's a characteristic of charity..."REJOICETH in the TRUTH" (I Cor. 13:4-6 all-caps mine.)

For those reasons, I was/am puzzled that you fussed on me for laughing...especially number three above. You see, I know NOTHING of whatever has been "brewing" between some of you; all I know about is my own experience with George...and from that experience I KNOW that BroParrish's post was RIGHT ON TARGET! So, DUH, my heart rejoiced when someone proclaimed the truth! Why is that surprising?

Also, you are mistaken in assuming that I have "taken offense" at George's words. I have no reason to be offended over paragraph after paragraph of false accusation; it's no "skin off my teeth" - George is the one who will answer for it! The only thing I have felt is DISGUST for all the time wasted trying to get him to discuss scripture (which he WILL NOT DO when it disagrees with his position - see his Biblical Marriage thread for the proof.)

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

chette777 07-06-2009 11:03 PM

Pam,

It is very easy to judge righteously from the very words that were posted. Unless you worded it wrong and meant something other than what you stated which seemed very clear to us.

But anyone who is finds refreshment, edification, peace, joy and rejoicing over corrupt communication, clamour, evil-speaking, bitterness and malice all of which is posted in Post 54 and other posts show us well what type of spirit they may well be. For that you are happy? you find joy in another's hurt? you are edified by someones sinfulness? the fact that Parish butted into a post written to Tim was wrong on his part in the first place.

I will give you a chance to clarify yourself, if I and Peoples misunderstood your post. We will apologize directly if this was the case. But the simple take without adding to it our interpretation or feelings was you enjoyed every word that came out of Parish's post, and what he said was corrupt, malicious, slanderous and what is known Biblically as evil speaking. of which we are to do our best to avoid.

Now, if you are rejoicing at the fact, which seemed to us you were, that Parish called George on some of his remarks. please remember as I posted earlier you and Parish have ability to read into another's post their complete and whole emotional state without having eye contact, body language, intonation and immediate emotional state. And I guarantee neither of your are gifted with the ability to read another persons mind.

that is why we judge righteously and check our own heart to be sure we understood properly what was communicated in a post.

if we are wrong we will be the first to admit it. but if we are right?

I took a peek at your web page. nice family you got there. the all natural and down to earth things you are a blessing in deed. I have a good friend living in Virginia (that's where I call home when in the States. I carry my VA divers license and all my State taxes are paid there). anyway, he is in to the all natural way, and into preserving fruits and vegetables for winter, making butter, goats cheese and like you soap.

Brother Tim 07-07-2009 08:41 AM

Folks, I have been gone for a long week-end with some of my family, and away from the internet, phone, radio, and TV. The latter three don't matter much as far as my keeping up with them, but this forum does. I have a lot of backlog at work so I have not been able to read carefully the last four or five pages on the thread. I did skim enough to understand that I made a serious mistake in my early post. I should not have used George's name in that sentence. As I look back now, it was completely unnecessary, and I truly apologize to George, Brandon, and the members of this forum for that. This issue is very raw with me for reasons that I cannot go into, and George in another thread had recently been very specific about the exactness of God's words, what they SAY and not what one thinks they mean. I connected the two together and was very wrong in doing so. Again, George, I am very sorry, and ask your forgiveness. I will attempt to answer your question to me later as I make time to re-read all of the posts in detail.

Bro. Parrish, I appreciate that you attempted to "stick up" for me. I do not appreciate the way in which you did. I would have privately discussed this with you, but you publicly connected me with your disagreement with and dislike for George. I cannot therefore keep quiet.

Chette, we are not finished here. I still have a great deal of disagreement with your position, but I have not labeled you personally as a bigot or a racist. The ideas that you encourage by your misuse of Scripture are the same as those who are in fact racists. I believe that you are doing so out of ignorance of the facts, and not out of an unclean heart.

Other members, I need time to process the meat of the discussion, but cannot until this evening, the LORD willing.

custer 07-07-2009 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish (Post 23285)
Well, isn't it obvious brother?
I think Bro. Tim "called you out" because you are obviously seen by some as a leader here. Not me, (I wrote you off as a leader a long time ago because of the way you always seem to end up yelling and screaming at people for no reason) but certainly you seem to have a "following" here, wouldn't you agree, hmmm?

Or maybe it would be better described as a "keyboard clique." :rolleyes:

Personally, since you don't want to discuss the topic, I don't know why you don't just stop bellowing like a BULL FROG and buzz off. Unless maybe you are just protecting your little "buddy" Chette again. After all, we have seen you freak out and jabber on for hours about far more stupid things than this topic. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Chette, I wanted to quote BroParrish again, just so we know exactly what we're dealing with.

First, let me say that it is apparent from your post that your tone IS of a good spirit...you are disagreeing with me and even reproving me (because you believe I am wrong) but I don't detect any malice. You are SO right about not being able to read a person's intent into their posts, so we should be even more careful about how we post! Thank you for that and for the kind comments about our family and lifestyle...the Lord has indeed blessed us beyond measure!

Now, as for BroParrish, I tried to make it clear that I don't know anything about what has transpired between him and any other members...for that reason, I cannot judge the spirit behind this post above. I am only going on the WORDS THEMSELVES just like we do when we read the Bible. (OK, I could have 'cross-referenced' all of BroParrish's posts, but who has the time?!) So, as for the exact words:

George IS "seen by some as a leader here." TRUTH

I am SURE that BroParrish and I are not the only ones who have noticed that George "always seem[s] to end up yelling and screaming at people for no reason." TRUTH (Like I said, I am just comparing this to MY experience with George, although I will admit that he had a sort of 'reason' in my case - I've already stated that his 'reason' for railing on ME was that he COULD NOT reconcile the scripture that I gave with his own position, nor could he refute that I proved his practical examples wrong...and he certainly wasn't about to admit that HE was wrong!) So, maybe BroParrish should have stipulated "no [GOOD/LEGITIMATE] reason!"

"certainly [George] seem[s] to have a 'following' here" TRUTH

"keyboard clique" Lighten up...that's FUNNY!!!

Was George "bellowing like a BULL FROG?" YES

Should he just "buzz off" if he doesn't want to "discuss the topic?" YES (The fact that he went off on BroParrish for answering his question is THE WHOLE REASON we are having THIS discourse!)

Like I"ve already said, I don't know anything about "protecting your little 'buddy' Chette again."

"we have seen [George] freak out and jabber on for hours about far more stupid things than this topic" TRUTH ( My case in point is that instead of discussing scripture with me [because he couldn't,] he DID rattle on about "far more stupid things than this topic - what kind of a woman HE THINKS I am and what "methodologies" HE THINKS I have been trained in! As an aside, he is WRONG on both counts which is why I have continued to assert that he has slandered me!)

So what part of the post was what you call "corrupt" and "slanderous?" What part do you classify as "evil speaking?" (I am NOT being sarcastic; those are sincere questions!) The only thing (besides possibly the mention of your name) that could be construed as a problem with the post is the fact that BroParrish was answering a question that was posed to Brother Tim; but, like I've pointed out, this is a forum discussion where everything is open to input from all the members...why the big deal about receiving someone else's insight into the situation? Since we have all had "run-ins" with George, our input is completely relevant and helps others to get a complete picture!

And you asked me if I "find joy in another's hurt," to which I respond - What part of that post was hurtful? I have shown that from my own experience with George, BroParrish's post was full of TRUTH...How could THAT be hurtful? ("Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" Gal. 4:16) George should be "hurt" by the bitter spewing that proceeds from his own keyboard!

I sincerely hope that this post gives you a better understanding of my previous ones; I have tried to provide plenty of clarification...let me know if I have failed!) Thank you again for your kind comments and for endeavoring to maintain civility in the discussion...with a little common courtesy, we may actually 'get somewhere!'

{I have used some weird punctuation, so if this post contains some strange smiley guys, they are unintentional...I have added NONE!}

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

Bro. Parrish 07-07-2009 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 23399)
Folks, I have been gone for a long week-end with some of my family, and away from the internet, phone, radio, and TV. The latter three don't matter much as far as my keeping up with them, but this forum does. I have a lot of backlog at work so I have not been able to read carefully the last four or five pages on the thread.....

Bro. Parrish, I appreciate that you attempted to "stick up" for me. I do not appreciate the way in which you did. I would have privately discussed this with you, but you publicly connected me with your disagreement with and dislike for George. I cannot therefore keep quiet.

Bro Tim, welcome back.
I don't recall saying I DISLIKE the man, but I do have a problem with his attacks on others. If you choose to ignore that habit, then that's your business. Nevertheless, since you haven't read the entire thread yet, let me direct you to post no. 57. Like I said before, I happen to think all of you bring something good to the forum, I love ALL OF YOU (yes including George) and I have defended ALL OF YOU at one time or another, but I cannot sit by and remain silent while we bash, scream and yell at each other in the name of Christ. 95% of the time it's an overreaction, and uncalled for. I retract nothing from my position on that, sorry but that goes for anyone. I suggest we all get back to topic and avoid the bickering... yeah, like that's gonna happen... :rolleyes:

George 07-07-2009 12:56 PM

Re: "Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 23399)
Folks, I have been gone for a long week-end with some of my family, and away from the internet, phone, radio, and TV. The latter three don't matter much as far as my keeping up with them, but this forum does. I have a lot of backlog at work so I have not been able to read carefully the last four or five pages on the thread. I did skim enough to understand that I made a serious mistake in my early post. I should not have used George's name in that sentence. As I look back now, it was completely unnecessary, and I truly apologize to George, Brandon, and the members of this forum for that. This issue is very raw with me for reasons that I cannot go into, and George in another thread had recently been very specific about the exactness of God's words, what they SAY and not what one thinks they mean. I connected the two together and was very wrong in doing so. Again, George, I am very sorry, and ask your forgiveness. I will attempt to answer your question to me later as I make time to re-read all of the posts in detail.

Bro. Parrish, I appreciate that you attempted to "stick up" for me. I do not appreciate the way in which you did. I would have privately discussed this with you, but you publicly connected me with your disagreement with and dislike for George. I cannot therefore keep quiet.

Chette, we are not finished here. I still have a great deal of disagreement with your position, but I have not labeled you personally as a bigot or a racist. The ideas that you encourage by your misuse of Scripture are the same as those who are in fact racists. I believe that you are doing so out of ignorance of the facts, and not out of an unclean heart.

Other members, I need time to process the meat of the discussion, but cannot until this evening, the LORD willing.


Aloha Brother Tim,

I accept your gracious apology. You and I have had a few "clashes" in the past (most of which weren't worth fighting over), but we have always managed to apologize to each other and continue our fellowship in the Lord Jesus Christ and around His precious word.

I must admit that I was offended (perhaps I am too easily offended? :(), but my "bark" is worse than my "bite", and I can truthfully say that I will not hold anything you said against you. I believe in "forgive and forget". :)

Even though you and I may disagree on certain spiritual issues, I have always counted you as a brother in Christ, and believe it or not, I have learned from your conduct on this Forum (although it may not always show ;)). I guess that it why I was disappointed when you singled me out.

Anyway - that's all in the past! Let's "shake" and see if we can continue being of some profit to the brethren, for I believe the time is short!

May God bless you brother, you have been I fine example of how we Christians should conduct ourselves in adversity. :)

peopleoftheway 07-07-2009 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George (Post 23412)
Aloha Brother Tim,

I accept your gracious apology. You and I have had a few "clashes" in the past (most of which weren't worth fighting over), but we have always managed to apologize to each other and continue our fellowship in the Lord Jesus Christ and around His precious word.

I must admit that I was offended (perhaps I am too easily offended? :(), but my "bark" is worse than my "bite", and I can truthfully say that I will not hold anything you said against you. I believe in "forgive and forget". :)

Even though you and I may disagree on certain spiritual issues, I have always counted you as a brother in Christ, and believe it or not, I have learned from your conduct on this Forum (although it may not always show ;)). I guess that it why I was disappointed when you singled me out.

Anyway - that's all in the past! Let's "shake" and see if we can continue being of some profit to the brethren, for I believe the time is short!

May God bless you brother, you have been I fine example of how we Christians should conduct ourselves in adversity. :)

I agree with all you have written above about Brother Tim, I too have some things that we have disagreed with, nothing major and I greatly admire his spirit of reconcilliation.

Winman 07-07-2009 06:03 PM

Here is a fascinating article about Noah and his three sons. Not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it is very interesting indeed.

http://custance.org/old/noah/index.html#anchor33261

chette777 07-07-2009 06:15 PM

Pam,

Sorry if I misunderstood your original Post. I never seen George as a leader of the forum nor has he ever given me that impression. He seems only to respond if he sees some error or unnecessary remarks. especially from those who who change the KJV.

I see what you are referring to but still it is objective to our personality and how we accept what we READ.

for example Brandon made a remark something like, "it forces people to look at their Bigotry". Now I could have been offended and called him on it. seeing my belief is not bigoted as to any type of nation. Bigotry is a word we often feel refers to race. However Bigotry could also be used to mean view of scripture or shoe color.

So I was not quick to read into it but to think about what he says.

Anyway it is good to see everyone has cooled down a bit.

Listen can you forward to me a soap recipe I was thinking we could add that to our church livelihood program. they can make and sell their own soap.

custer 07-07-2009 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 23429)
Pam,

Sorry if I misunderstood your original Post. I never seen George as a leader of the forum nor has he ever given me that impression. He seems only to respond if he sees some error or unnecessary remarks. especially from those who who change the KJV.

Listen can you forward to me a soap recipe I was thinking we could add that to our church livelihood program. they can make and sell their own soap.

This is one of the things that griped me so bad about George...he did not respond to me because of error on my part. On the contrary, I proved scripturally and practically that HE was in error (on his Biblical Marriage thread) but all he did was to throw a tantrum. When that didn't make me and my verses go away, he took his ball and bat and went home!!!

And yes, I'll send you a soap recipe...water-based, milk-based, or both?

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

chette777 07-07-2009 06:56 PM

Ok, I misjudged peoples thought action including yours. could you perhaps have done the same in understanding Bro George's statement? you will have to have more grace than normal in reading posts and just don't read to much into it. Just take the words consider if you disagree that is ok. I could not see that he threw a tantrum in his response to you.

both would be fine.

I think we can all safely move back to the original topic of the thread.


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