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-   -   I know Jack Hyles isn't the most sound, but what is this? (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122)

Luke 03-29-2009 06:11 PM

I know Jack Hyles isn't the most sound, but what is this?
 
Let me ask you a question, ladies and gentlemen: Do you think Balaam was a great Christian because he could say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that it may be that one cause for Balaam's greatness was his willingness to say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that Saul became a great man because he could say, "I have sinned"? One of the reasons Job was a mature and upright man, perhaps, was that he was willing to say, "I have sinned."

This is from his sermon "I have sinned" which is quite touching in many ways, but I read this and thought..

1) Baalam wasn't a Christian, and neither was anyone else in the OT.
2) Baalam was a lost man and so was Saul??

kevinvw 03-29-2009 06:52 PM

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Yeah, neither were Christians, and both were lost. Saul lost the Holy Spirit for being a wicked and evil king and Balaam was a baal worshipper and a fool. I wouldn't say either is a good example for a Christian, or anybody, unless you want to wind up in hell. The fact that they could admit that they sinned is good, but they were obviously lacking in the parts that really matter.

chette777 03-29-2009 08:23 PM

Quote:

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
this is an interesting scripture describing Israel int he last day.
1) they have become a murder of their brother (brethren)
2) they have become sexual immoral and mixed their blood
3) they have become ones who seek after positions of Authority both religious and civil.

sorry I didn't mean to hijack your post.

Luke 03-29-2009 08:39 PM

Hijack it all you want.. I have noticed a few IFB's doing this.. calling OT saints "Christians". One of them even goes as far as saying the first Christian family was Adam and Eve.. (I think that was Jack Hyles too...)

peopleoftheway 03-30-2009 05:25 AM

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;

How strikingly similar is the story of Saul going to seek a "familiar" spirit because the Lord had not spoken to him, to that of many professed Christians today who, because they dont "feel" the presence of God they seek to "feel" through "familiar spirits" Charismatics, Pentecostal worship (sensual music, singing, lyrics) and the like and commit transgressions against the word of the Lord by adding and taking away from the Glorious Book (Modern versions, Social Gospel). Now I am not saying that pentecostals or the like are not saved I cannot judge ANYONE'S salvation, but the story is an indication of how grievous the error of seeking a familiar spirit is.


Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.


(I know that Jude is comparing to Sodom and Gomorrahs transgressions)
How similar is this verse to todays so called pastors and evangelists who twist the word of God and preach a false Gospel for the sake of a few dollars, I could list many but sadly it would make this post way too long.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Definitely no Christians in the Old testament, saints but not Christians.

chette777 03-30-2009 05:34 AM

Jack would have been on medications to have made such a blooper as to call Adam and Eve the first Christians family. however it goes well with the theology that those in the OT were looking FORWARD to the cross.

Just_A_Thought 03-30-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 17546)
Hijack it all you want.. I have noticed a few IFB's doing this.. calling OT saints "Christians". One of them even goes as far as saying the first Christian family was Adam and Eve.. (I think that was Jack Hyles too...)

I find fault with some of Bro Hyles teachings but he is probably more right on than most...

Why sit there and insult a man that served God with his life. He may not have been perfect but neither is anyone else on this forum including myself.

peopleoftheway 03-30-2009 01:22 PM

Where exactly did Brother Luke insult him? In fact he said no more about it than you, that he knew some of his teachings werent sound:mad:

Just_A_Thought 03-30-2009 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway (Post 17575)
Where exactly did Brother Luke insult him? In fact he said no more about it than you, that he knew some of his teachings werent sound:mad:

When he said " I know Jack Hyles isn't the most sound, but what is this? " It is his title. The title is rather rude.

Luke 03-30-2009 01:41 PM

Well, I've done the same with John MacArthur and Ruckman, so I can hardly be called a respecter of persons in regards to a mans ministry.

Hyles is dead. I am not trying to stomp on his grave. I was just wondering if this was error, or if Saul and Baalam were saved men. It seemed like Hyles had twisted the truth (or ignored the latter half of Saul and Balaam's life) in order to preach a good message. The message preaches well. It's convicting. It's heartfelt. It helped me to see a few things I hadn't before, but I was just comparing it to scripture.

If Eternal Security was true in the OT, then Balaam and Saul would both be saved right now. If it's not, then they aren't.

Which leads me to another question

1) Is Solomon saved? There is no record of solomon humbling himself before God (that I know of).
2) Is Ahab saved? In 1 Kings, he humbles himself before God shortly before he dies, and God stays off the wickedness upon Israel until after Ahab dies. God commends his humility to Elijah.

Just_A_Thought 03-30-2009 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 17578)
Well, I've done the same with John MacArthur and Ruckman, so I can hardly be called a respecter of persons in regards to a mans ministry.

Hyles is dead. I am not trying to stomp on his grave. I was just wondering if this was error, or if Saul and Baalam were saved men. It seemed like Hyles had twisted the truth (or ignored the latter half of Saul and Balaam's life) in order to preach a good message. The message preaches well. It's convicting. It's heartfelt. It helped me to see a few things I hadn't before, but I was just comparing it to scripture.

If Eternal Security was true in the OT, then Balaam and Saul would both be saved right now. If it's not, then they aren't.

Which leads me to another question

1) Is Solomon saved? There is no record of solomon humbling himself before God (that I know of).
2) Is Ahab saved? In 1 Kings, he humbles himself before God shortly before he dies, and God stays off the wickedness upon Israel until after Ahab dies. God commends his humility to Elijah.

I appologize. I felt that the cooment was met rudely. I think I read into in wrong. Again, I appologize it is my fault.

tonybones2112 03-30-2009 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 17542)
Let me ask you a question, ladies and gentlemen: Do you think Balaam was a great Christian because he could say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that it may be that one cause for Balaam's greatness was his willingness to say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that Saul became a great man because he could say, "I have sinned"? One of the reasons Job was a mature and upright man, perhaps, was that he was willing to say, "I have sinned."

This is from his sermon "I have sinned" which is quite touching in many ways, but I read this and thought..

1) Baalam wasn't a Christian, and neither was anyone else in the OT.
2) Baalam was a lost man and so was Saul??

Matt 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

1Ti 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men‘s sins: keep thyself pure.

1Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

Nu 32:21 And will go all of you armed over Jordan before the LORD, until he hath driven out his enemies from before him,
22 And the land be subdued before the LORD: then afterward ye shall return, and be guiltless before the LORD, and before Israel; and this land shall be your possession before the LORD.
23 But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

Luke, the sermon Dr. Hyles preached is one of many he preached in self defense of the fact he was accused, on very good evidence, of the grossest sexual misconduct and various other acts unbecoming a man of his position. Hyles had and still does have a fanatical following as does Ruckman, and some men in high profiles do.

Brother Luke, I hope you and I are lifelong friends and Christian brothers, I want you always to remember though, I am just a man. Nothing more. I've dealt with many of Hyle's clones who swear he should have been one of the 12 Apostles. When you defend a man and don't know his guilt or innocence, or if you know one or the other, if he is guilty you become a knowing or unknowing partaker of his sins as the verse in I Tim. above points out.
The OT has many examples of living. Dr. Hyles, in my opionion, failed to drive out some of the works of the flesh found in Galatians 5, and his sins found him out as pointed out in Numbers above. If Hyles won a million to Christ he could have won 10 million had he crucified his flesh. 20 years have passed since these accusations came to light and the IFB is split right down the middle in many camps. Hyle's accusers made the silly and irrelevant mistake of accusing him among other things of "...having the Ruckman position on the KJV." Dr. Ruckman defends him because Hyle's accusers are "Alexandrians". A man's position on the version issue is not relevant to his moral standing when he has the profile Hyles did and when the alleged misdeeds are this deep. Some allegations were silly(that he prayed to his deceased mother's photo). You have to sift the wheat from the chaff in any accusation.

The information on the allegations are here:

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/

Be fully pursuaded in your own mind.

John R. Rice was the most vocal of the teachers who taught, "Abraham was a fine, Old Testament Christian...". The teaching is they "looked forward to the cross" while we "look backward". He was half right.

Judas "repented" of course, after he said, oops. Had he gone to the cross he would have been forgiven, but he has a job: He's the Anti-Christ. We can whip ourselves with chains over our sins and just get into hell with stripes on our backs. The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation, the OT saints did not have this gospel. Your and my sins are washed in the blood NOW, Israel's sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing are come according to Peter in Acts 3.

As a young Christian I was a respector of persons Luke. I didn't know any better. Hyles caused a great deal of division, but unless a call divides it is not alive, but dead.

I hope you are well.

Grace and peace

Tony

Bro. Parrish 03-30-2009 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 17578)
Which leads me to another question

1) Is Solomon saved? There is no record of solomon humbling himself before God (that I know of).
2) Is Ahab saved? In 1 Kings, he humbles himself before God shortly before he dies, and God stays off the wickedness upon Israel until after Ahab dies. God commends his humility to Elijah.

Luke, this may seem out of place, but looking over your other recent thread I am asking out of concern...
did you ever figure out if YOU are saved? :confused:

Luke 03-30-2009 11:24 PM

It's a good question

1) What can I do to be saved other than believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Nothing...

2) At the moment, I am struggling with the question "Is my belief real". I don't know how to answer that question.

3) I know the gospel and I believe it as best I can. If I am not saved, then I trust God will let me know for sure and save me. If I am saved, then I trust God will let me know, and give me peace.

4) The short answer is yes, I believe I am saved, but struggling due to emotional baggage, sin baggage and religious baggage.

chette777 03-30-2009 11:46 PM

you know Luke I think we all have to admit that only God's word gives us our assurance and in our flesh we will all wonder "is it real".

as we see God answer prayers it is the only physical proof he is real. However our enemy can answer prayers too.

So the word of God is what we in the end need to rely upon. not our feelings.

Jesus said it is finished. you trusted in him and he is faithful to finish the work he began in you. you are just as saved today as yesterday and just as saved today as tomorrow.

spiritual growth in your personal areas of sin is also proof you are saved. But non so solid as His word

Brother Tim 03-31-2009 08:31 AM

Quote:

struggling due to emotional baggage, sin baggage and religious baggage
Sadly, this phrase fits most of us.

tonybones2112 03-31-2009 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 17609)
Sadly, this phrase fits most of us.

When I get to heaven most likely Paul and I will have a fist fight over who is chief of sinners, he or me. Brother Luke is not alone, but Luke needs to realize God is not a respector of persons and we are all equally saved as the next person. But I say, at the end of this passage by Paul, the same as he did: I thank my God through Jesus Christ our Lord, oh wretched man that I am...

Hang in there Luke.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Grace and peace

Tony

Winman 03-31-2009 05:12 PM

Luke said

Quote:


It's a good question

1) What can I do to be saved other than believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? Nothing...

2) At the moment, I am struggling with the question "Is my belief real". I don't know how to answer that question.

3) I know the gospel and I believe it as best I can. If I am not saved, then I trust God will let me know for sure and save me. If I am saved, then I trust God will let me know, and give me peace.

4) The short answer is yes, I believe I am saved, but struggling due to emotional baggage, sin baggage and religious

Luke, pardon me for jumping in, but I think I know your problem. It is very common, and I experienced it myself many years ago. So, I consider myself an authority of sorts.

You are looking the wrong direction. You are looking at yourself instead of Christ. You see, believeing is something you can know for a certainty. It is not a feeling. It is a decision. Everyone can believe. God would not give you something to do for salvation that might be impossible for you. It is not only possible, it is absolutely your choice and within your complete control. And you can KNOW that you have believed.

Here's an example. You are in a burning building 3 floors up. You are trapped in the window. Below you is the fire department. They are holding a big net and calling for you to jump to safety. They are assuring you that if you jump they will catch you.

OK, do you ask yourself "Do I believe the fire department?? Do I have faith in the fire department? If I fail to believe will they miss me?

Of course not. You would look at the large net. You would look at the strong fireman who are calling for you to jump. In reality, you would be asking questions like, "Is that net big enough, or strong enough to catch me? Will the firemen miss me if I jump? You would be questioning the firemen, not yourself.

Now that is a silly example, but that is what you are doing. You are asking yourself, "Do I have faith? Is my faith real? Do I have enough faith? Why do I doubt?" But you would not be questioning yourself in a fire, you would be questioning the firemen and their equipment.

You are looking the wrong direction. Look at Jesus and ask, "Does Jesus lie? Will Jesus trick me? Is Jesus able to save me? Now you are asking the right questions. And I bet you know the answer to these questions without a doubt.

Now, back to the fire. You see the firemen and the net below. You are scared plenty. You are indeed afraid they might miss you. But you consider the alternative and decide the only choice is to jump and place your life in their hands.

So, you jump.

Do you see what you did there? You made a choice. You just entrusted your life to those firemen, regardless of how you felt emotionally. And it is not something mysterious experience you cannot figure out. I mean, you jumped. You put your life in their hands. This is not a maybe thing, you know for certain.

And it is the same with Jesus. To believe on Jesus simply means to place your eternal soul in His hands. It is a decision. Jesus has already promised to save you if you come to him, just as the firemen promised to catch you if you jumped. It is exactly the same.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Do you see what Jesus did here? He placed his spirit into his Father's hands. That is what believeing means. It means to trust, to lean upon, to look to, to rely upon, to commit one's self to, to depend upon, to RISK yourself to.

Lots of people get it all backwards. They say you have to perservere, or hold on to the end, and never doubt. WRONG.

To believe means to completely LET GO. It means to quit trying. It means to jump and trust Jesus to catch you. It means to place your soul in Jesus's hands and let it go at that. If Jesus doesn't get you to heaven, then you are a goner.

Just tell Jesus that you give yourself to him, and then let go and depend on Jesus to get you to heaven as he promised.

And you can know for a certainty if it is your will or choice to give yourself to Jesus. You wouldn't be worried about all this if it was not your desire to be saved.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.


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