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-   -   Noah and Ham--Noah's Curse (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1403)

Denny 07-03-2009 04:34 PM

Hi All,

After reading all the posts, I find that Brother Tim is correct. It was Ham's younger son Canaan who did something to his grandfather. To say it was a homosexual act is reading something into the scriptures that isn't there. Whatever it was, it was showing total disrespect for his grandfather. We can see by other scriptures what God's thoughts are on this. Noah, who was a servant of God, whould be inspired th have the same thoughts. I don't know if this curse would still be in
effect today or not.

Denny

Brother Tim 07-03-2009 05:09 PM

"...his grandfather." It was his father. Ham committed the offense, not Canaan.

"I find that Brother Tim is correct." Well, that is once so far this week. :(

JOHN G 07-03-2009 05:37 PM

Howdy.......
 
Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

Ham "saw the nakedness of his father".
Shem and Japheth
1. took a garment
2. laid it on both their shoulders
3. went backwards
4. covered the nakedness of their father
5. and their faces were backward

Did they (Shem and Japheth) do all this not to have homosexual sex with their father or not to see his nakedness? I sumbit it is the latter.


BTW Chette, We all have decended from Noah and his wife. Every person on this earth is your cousin; white, black, red, yellow, or green.

greenbear 07-03-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Tim (Post 23198)
"...his grandfather." It was his father. Ham committed the offense, not Canaan.

"I find that Brother Tim is correct." Well, that is once so far this week. :(

Brother Tim,

greenbear quote from post # 17
Quote:

I'm glad Brother Tim called us on it. He and Brandon and Tony are right and I agree.
That would make it at least twice in one day and it's only Friday night. :)

chette777 07-03-2009 06:36 PM

I apologize to those of you who were offended.

I am in no ways a Bigot or a racist. My wife is part Hamite and part Shemite. I am Jehephite and there is Hamite as it seems in my own family line. if that will ease anyone's pain. the nations did come form these three sons of Noah and it does not take a PhD to figure where those sons were scattered to and the Nations that they produced. nations does not mean just where someone is born but to whom someone is born.

All I did was ask a question of King and he answered positive and I made further reference that slavery (servant of servants) and Jhephite's in the tents of Shem of whom he would serve. Jhephite's did indeed capture the tenting ground of the American Shemite nations, who were said to be red skinned. you all know that even science labels men by their color there are five yellow, red, brown, black and white. they are now all innermixed to create variety but those five basic tones are there.

Tim Quoted here: "Conjecture itself may not be wrong, but basing one's belief or view of life on conjecture is wrong. Using one's imagination to fill in the scenes of the Bible may not be not erroneous in itself, but creating a doctrine or Bible interpretation on such is fallacy."

I in no way bashed anyone's belief or view of life on conjecture or their race (nation). We can stretch scripture but we must always remember God is correct.

When I fill our applications here with the Government there are two questions you will only find one in the US. 1) what is your Citizenship. and 2) what is your Nationality? My citizenship is US. I would often ask what do you mean by this and some would say what country were you born. So my nationality if American. But on occasion some would respond what is your Race. Which generally is Caucasian or White.

Gen9:24 knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Ge 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Ge 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Ge 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Ge 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, [said she], hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

In every instance of the use of the word knew with nakedness and that that goes on when a couple is naked shows that Noah Knew that his son Ham had done something that was sexual in nature. that according to the use of God's words of which we are to study.

We don't have to know exactly what the act was but we know by the word knew it was sexual it wasn't just looking on. all the instances where God talks about looking upon or look upon in the Levitical laws concerning sexual conduct all refer to sex.

greenbear 07-03-2009 06:46 PM

Brother Presswood,

Thanks for posting your study of Noah's curse. It's a great study.

I think your statement
Quote:

Proper respect will seek to cover failure rather than to expose it.
is a profound truth that I know I, for one, need to reminded of.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Proverbs 17:9 He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.

Jennifer

Brother Presswood 07-03-2009 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777 (Post 23202)
Do any of you know what mark God placed on Cain?

Ge 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.


Some have argued that black races are descendants of Cain. They rightfully claim that after Cain killed Abel, God cursed him, made him a fugitive and a vagabond, and “set a mark” upon him. But then the biblical segregationist erroneously maintains that the “mark” is the black skin and the divine curse justifies discrimination against his descendants – the black race. This assertion is ridiculously easy to disprove. First, the text does not state or even imply that the “mark” set on Cain was black skin. We do know that the other “marks” in the Word of God were just that, literal marks.

The mark of the beast is a literal mark in Revelation 13:16, And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: The mark put on the 144,000 tribulation witnesses is a literal mark in Ezekiel 9 and again in Revelation 7:2-3, And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. To say that the mark is one thing in one passage and a completely different thing in another passage is not being consistent. It amounts to misusing the Bible to fit your own agenda.

Second, black people cannot be descendants of Cain for the simple fact that all of Cain’s descendants died in the Flood. The only people saved in the Flood were Noah’s family which descended from Seth and not Cain. If Cain’s blood were in one of Noah’s sons, it would be in all of them.

chette777 07-03-2009 07:16 PM

the Jhephite nations did capture the Shemite nations tenting grounds and did in fact have slaves that came from the Line of Ham (whether some of you want to believe it or not) according to the scattering that the LORD did at the tower of Babel.

I asked a question of King he answered affirmative I then made a remark that blacks (Hamites) are now wanting the white's American via their representative in office to Apologize for the slavery (which was legal at that time) and give them money for coming from the line of a slave over 100 years ago.

it wasn't bigotry nor racism that spawned my conversation but truth as to what was happening today. my ancestors came here as indentured servants (volunteer slaves) so they could be in The New World.

Do you feel that is what we as a nation need to do? make apologies for people we did not know to people we did not know and then pay their descendants money which would amount to 100,000 of individuals if not millions, all getting money for nothing other than being black?

chette777 07-03-2009 07:24 PM

Press,

first what mark would God place on a man that if any man saw it they would know it was Cain lets say from 200 feet?
The mark of the beast does not need to be seen from a distance but up close. that is the difference between these two marks. I am not saying the mark was blackness. and to avoid that I removed those remarks from my previous post and this conversation can be carried on in another post.

How do you know they all died in the flood?

could not they have intermixed with Adams grand sons and daughter's or even Noah's sons?

Remember Cain built cities, made metallurgic tools and musical instruments. do you think the herdsman farmers of Adams Sons did not intermix with these city folk? intermix meaning they did not have dealing with these people? if they had dealings would not it be safe to assume they gave their sons and daughters to marry which was a common practice.

you would be wrong in thinking that. I am not saying anything of the nature of sons of God saw the daughter of men. for those were Angelic beings not Cain's descendants. but if you think that Cains whole race died in the flood and in no way had husband or mixed via one of Noah's sons or the wives of Noah's sons you would be wrong even our current nature shows nation mixing to be prevalent. as in the days of Noah so shall it be in the coming of the Son of man.

you see how Cain did everything in his power to negate the curse placed on him by God. Built cities, no vagabond lived in a city. Where did Cain's sons learn how to do metallurgical arts?

chette777 07-03-2009 07:45 PM

you know what caught my attention was we used the term Hamite and everyone of you et al all recognized it as our meaning black people? And then went on to say we have no idea where the black race came from and that we can't say without any conjecture as to the fact they came from Ham. If you don't know where the black people came from then why did you all jump us and call us racist and bigoted? we could have been talking about the thousands of white slaves from Europe, the 2,000,000 Chinese slaves that were sold in the US. Or maybe we were talking the 100,000 Filipino's slaves that was sold in Hawaii to the Mormon owned pineapple and Sugar plantations. Hypocrisy is subtle isn't it.:tsk:

Many of the African slaves sold to the US market were done so by their enemies to whom they lost a war. this was common practice of the victor clear up to today and many were sold by Muslims to the US (Muslims still practice it today where are the bleeding hearts and the Amnesty Intl and human rights groups confronting the Muslim?).

Why don't the black slaves seek to get appropriation from the Muslims in Morroco, Chad, Nigeir and Egypt to pay them. OH yeah there are none alive today. Why then do their descendants asking only the white America to apologize and pay them money?

The whole point of the apologetic event for slavery in America is mute and it should not be done.


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