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Lively Stone 02-01-2008 09:43 PM

Who is the God of this world?
 
Thought we should get this thread going.

This is a doctrine that most will say is Satan. Even the modern Bible versions have taken the liberty to clarify that Satan is the god of thls world.

What say ye?

Danny

Graceismine 02-01-2008 10:23 PM

I was reading these very chapters this morning. It doesn't say who the "god of this world" is. Looking back to chapter three, Moses put the vail over his face and the minds of the Israelites were blinded.

Is there a connection do you suppose? I would like to know who you think "the god of this world" is.

Grace.......http://www.praize.com/members/Commun...0226986538.gif

Diligent 02-01-2008 11:55 PM

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The KJV clearly has lower-case god, and so the phrase should be understood not to refer to God.

Also see Matthew 4:8-9 where Satan tempts the Lord. I don't think the offer can be considered disingenuous.

John1717 02-02-2008 12:14 AM

Who smote Job?

Most would say Satan, but that isn't so.
In this verse,

Job 2:3 and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

thou - - - Satan

movedst me - - - God

against him - - - Job

What can Satan do that God dos not permit? NOTHING Job 2:6...but save his life. < - - - Satan does as commanded

Thus GOD is the ONLY SOVEREIGN in all HIS universe

Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Diligent 02-02-2008 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1717 (Post 35)
Thus GOD is the ONLY SOVEREIGN in all HIS universe



Our understanding of God's sovereignty must be informed by the entirety of Scripture. Some insist that everything that happens is God's will, and yet the Lord said these words:
Jeremiah 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
It's clear to me that the acts spoken of here aren't God's will. How could God claim that he didn't command it and that it didn't even come into his mind, if it was his will?

So, while God is sovereign, his will includes his creation having free will, unless we are to throw out verses such as the above, or take as empty the implication that Satan actually could offer Kingdoms to Jesus Christ.

John1717 02-02-2008 12:44 AM

Satan's offer was empty to Christ who OWNS all things, his offer is NOT empty to men.

The acts referred to in Jeremiah weren't His will, He had NOT commanded them, but He was NOT unaware of them, if something occurs it is because
He allows it to occur

He didn't 'command' Adam to disobey, but He wasn't unware that it would happen, and He did allow it to happen. In HIS sovereignty.

Diligent 02-02-2008 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1717 (Post 37)
Satan's offer was empty to Christ who OWNS all things, his offer is NOT empty to men.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
I don't really see the problem in acknowledging that Satan is the "god of this world," since it is said in the Bible, and Christ himself said his kingdom was not of this world. Also, by claiming Satan's temptation was empty, isn't that saying it wasn't a temptation?

Just looking around me, it would seem that prophecy of Christ's kingdom on earth is not yet fulfilled.

John1717 02-02-2008 01:15 AM

I'm sorry, I DO acknowledge that Satan is the little g of this world, BUT the little g can do nothing the big G does not allow.

Can't find it right now, but to paraphrase, God can not look upon sin. But there is no sin He is unaware of.

God can not be tempted.

That doesn't mean that Satan wasn't tempting Him

God doesn't make deals, but that doesn't mean millions of people don't try to make deals with God, does it?

Graceismine 02-02-2008 01:43 AM

It has always been my opinion that Satan is the god of this world. I would just like to know what Lively Stone is getting at.

Satan is also the "prince of this world" indicating that he is a ruler.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Satan is an angel. He rebelled against God in Heaven and was cast down into the air with access to the earth. When he rebelled God could not kill him because he is an immortal being. I believe that God has allowed Satan to have power on earth until the time comes when his works are destroyed.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

God is righteous and cannot go against His own integrity. Jesus will destroy the works of Satan and I believe He is doing it by forming a "New Creation". We defeat Satan's works every time we have victory over him. That final victory will be death and Satan's power and rebellion against God will be dealt with once and for all.

..................:)....Grace

John1717 02-02-2008 05:26 AM

Quote:

forming a "New Creation"
Where?

When?

jerry 02-02-2008 07:22 AM

The Bible teaches that Adam and Eve lost their authority over this earth when they sinned against God. Psalms 8 and Hebrews 2 teaches that authority is restored in Christ, through His atonement for our sin and victory over death and Hell.

I believe that Satan's temptation to Jesus was real - the kingdoms of the world were Satan's to offer. Study out Revelation 5. There we see the title deed to the earth being presented, and no one able to open it - until Jesus takes it.

Revelation 5:1-9 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Denny 02-02-2008 07:46 AM

I believe what Grace is refering to is in 2Cor.5:17
"Tharefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away;behold,all things are become new.

Denny

Graceismine 02-02-2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1717 (Post 45)
Where?

When?

Here!

Now!

I am part of that "New Creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Grace.....:)

Graceismine 02-02-2008 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny (Post 56)
I believe what Grace is refering to is in 2Cor.5:17
"Tharefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away;behold,all things are become new.

Denny

Thanks Denny, I didn't see your post before I made mine.

Grace........http://www.praize.com/members/Commun...0231985608.gif

Lively Stone 02-02-2008 02:57 PM

I appoologize for multiple post. Please read in it's entirety before forming an opinion. Thanks for all the comments. Yours in Jesus Christ. Bro. Danny.

THE GOD OF THIS WORLD By Danny Laird

An argument against a longstanding false doctrine.
The purpose of this treatise is to argue and present irrefutable Biblical and historical evidence of an error in doctrine. (FALSE DOCTRINE) The doctrine in question begins with the scripture (II Corinthians 4:4.)

2Co 4:4 In1722 whom3739 the3588 god2316 of this5127 world165 hath blinded5186 the3588 minds3540 of them which believe not,571 lest3361 the3588 light5462 of the3588 glorious1391 gospel2098 of Christ,5547 who3739 is2076 the image1504 of God,2316 should shine826 unto them.846 KJV (Strong's numbers reluctantly inserted for comparison to alleged Greek lexicon word translations)
False doctrine: Many pastors and teachers have taught this doctrine and will not agree with this treatise. I call this teaching false because as you will see, works attributed Satan are actually the work of God and to give Satan credit for the work of God is a sin and an assault against the holy word of God. I say this with all due respect to pastors and teachers. We humans make errors. Only God does not make mistakes. Let us correct our error in humility and without pride in Jesus name.
The doctrinal error being taught in this scripture II Corinthians 4:4 is Satan is the "god of this world" and "hath blinded the minds of them which believe not” lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them.

In reference to the above quoted scripture the following questions will be answered:
1. Who controls such powers as evil, lying spirits and all other entities and powers that could produce the effect of keeping people from believing (or blinding their minds) keeping them from believing the light of the glorious gospel?
2. Who “blinds the minds of them which believe not?”
3. Why should the little “g” god in this scripture be a capital “G” God?
4. What do the scriptures say on this topic?
5. What happened historically to cause this false doctrine to be perpetrated on the Church?

Point #1 God created everything including evil in the book of Genesis.

Gen 2:9 and out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as
gods, knowing good and evil.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now,
lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

(The Bible scriptures are clear who created evil and mans disobedience to God caused him to know the
difference between good and evil. Eve was beguiled of the serpent but clearly she and Adam made their own
choice to disobey God.)

I have heard it taught that when Adam and Eve fell in the garden of Eden, Satan gained dominion over the
Earth. I find no Biblical basis for the theory that God gave up His sovereignty and gave Satan dominion.


The following scriptures clearly show that God is in control of evil.

Deu 7:15 “will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee;”
(Clearly the Lord will put evil plagues and sickness on those with whom He is displeased or for other punitive
reasons.)

Deu 30:15 “See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
(This is a clear choice we make.)

Jos 23:15 “ so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things,”
(Walk in the Lords ways or clearly he will set evil upon us. Again a free choice we
make.)

Below are clear pertinent scriptures showing that it is the Lord God who created evil and who can and will send
evil upon man and also has control of evil spirits as well as lying spirits.

1Sa 16:14 “But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.”

1Sa 16:15 “ And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.”

1Sa 16:16 “the evil spirit from God is upon thee,”

2Sa 12:11 “Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee”

2Sa 17:14 “ For the LORD had appointed to defeat the good counsel of Ahithophel, to the intent that the LORD
might bring evil upon Absalom “

2Sa 24:16 “And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it the LORD repented him
of the evil,”

1Ki 9:9 “ therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.”

1Ki 14:10 “ Therefore, behold, I will bring evil upon the house of Jeroboam”

Ki 22:23 “ the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets,”

Ki 6:33 “ this evil is of the LORD; “

Amo 3:6 “ shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”

There are many scriptures that can be quoted on this subject that it simply is not practical to do so. I believe
the doctrinal point has been made that the Lord created evil and is in control of good and evil and controls
even the lying spirits for his own sovereign purposes including controlling any works of Satan.

Do not misunderstand. God is not evil. He is loving, merciful and just. He simply is in control of His children
and owns everything that he has created, as we will prove. Everything created by God was created for Him and
remains under His dominion. Many times God has used Evil for punitive purposes upon those who do not
follow His word. He will even turn one over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh. 1Co 5:5 To deliver such
an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

The scriptures below show how the theme works with that which God has created.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

In the book of Job Satan needed Gods permission to lay claim to and do evil to Job. This is a clear Biblical example of the God of this world being in control of all evil including Satan (another of His creation) who will answer to God and in the end will receive his just reward for his rebellion against God, as will all of Gods created beings.

Moving on to point #2. Who " blinds the minds of those who believe not?" The following scripture’s should put this issue into proper context.

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

It is plain to see who does the blinding. If one takes II Corinthians chapter 3 in context with chapter 4,
considering that until the 1599 Geneva Bible was printed there were no chapter or verse separations in the English Bible. Taking this into consideration then II Corinthians 3:13 through 3:16 above would flow with II Corinthians 4:4 and would not be out of context as is being taught today.

Moving on to point #3. We shall prove that the little "g" god should be a capital "G" God in this scripture. As stated earlier when I quoted the scripture II Cor. 4:4, I left the Strong's Concordance numbers in the quote.

If you look at the word in Greek for the little (g) "god" in this scripture you will see that it comes from the Strong's Concordance word number 2316 which is "theos”. A little further in this scripture a capital (G) "God" is used and you will notice that it also comes from 2316 in the Strong's Concordance or “theos”.

If you look at all other New Testament usages of this word “theos” (2316) in the Strong's Concordance, you will see that II Corinth. 4:4 is the only passage that has made usage of a little "g" when referring to “theos”. My Strong's Concordance does not list the part of II Cor. 4:4 that has the little "g" (god), but does list the capital (G) God of the second part of the scripture. The little "g" god quote is missing because it should read as a capital "G" God. We will cover this point in more detail later.

The scriptures already quoted have clearly and concisely made point #4. Please re-read them and you will plainly see who has blinded the unbelievers.

Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Moving on to point #5 and proving that the little "g “ god in this passage is an error and should be a capital “G” God, using older vernacular Bibles and manuscripts.

Below you will note II Corinthians 4:4 quoted from English Bibles and Greek manuscripts previously in print prior to the King James version and one or two later versions that got it right. Note the RNKJV use of the word elohim.

Geneva Bible 1587:
In whom the God of this world hath blinded the mindes, that is, of the infidels, that the light of the glorious Gospell of Christ, which is the image of God, should not shine vnto them.

Coverdale Bible 1535:
amonge whom the God of this worlde hath blynded ye myndes of them which beleue not, that ye lighte of the Gospell of the glory of Christ ( which is the ymage of God) shulde not shyne vnto them.

Tyndale Bible 1534:
If our gospel be yet hid, it is hid among them that are lost, in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest should shine unto them the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,

Wycliffe Bible 1395:
in which God hath blent the soulis of vnfeithful men of this world, that the liytnyng of the gospel of the glorie of Crist, which is the ymage of God, schyne not.

Let us compare today's King James Version with the original 1611 King James version. They are side by side in this illustration. There can be no doubt what the original intent of this scripture was. (Note: the capital "G" in the original 1611 KJV.)

Today's KJV Bible: 1611 KJV Bible::
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 4 In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which beleeue not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine vnto them.
(Note underline and bold text on word "God"added by author.)


4 bei welchen der Gott dieser Welt der Ungläubigen Sinn verblendet hat, daß sie nicht sehen das helle Licht des Evangeliums von der Klarheit Christi, welcher ist das Ebenbild Gottes.
German 1545 Unrevidierte Luther. Capital Gott, German for God.

4 bei welchen der Gott dieser Welt der Ungläubigen Sinn verblendet hat, daß sie nicht sehen das helle Licht des Evangeliums von der Klarheit Christi, welcher ist das Ebenbild Gottes
German Luther Bibel. Capital Gott, German for God
(Ger Lut)

4 to them whose minds the God of this world hath blinded, in order that they might not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of the Messiah (who is the likeness of God) should dawn upon them.
James Murdock translation of Syriac Peshitta. Capital God

There is also a capital “G” God in 2 Corinthians 4:4 in the Llamsa translation of the Syriac Peshitta.

Restored Name King James Version
The RNKJV uses the KJV but restores the names of God to their original forms. For example, where the KJV renders yod-he-vav-he (YWHW) "the LORD", the RNKJV renders it "Yahweh". (NB: Actually it renders it yod-he-vav-he now.) Similarly, other Hebrew names like "Elohim" (God/Mighty One(s)) are left in their Hebrew form. The Greek work "Iesous" (Jesus) is also restored to its Hebrew/Aramaic form: "Yahushua".

Note: the use of the word elohim a name used for God throughout the Old Testament.
4 In whom the elohim of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious evangel of the Messiah, who is the image of יהוה, should shine unto them.

Erasmus in his Greek Text of the New Testament used the word “qeou” 1,174 times. He used this word for God. Making this word a little “g:” god instead of “God” would be completely subjective and not in character or context with his other usages throughout his text.

Erasmus also used the word “satanas” Satanas 33 times in his Greek text. Why would anyone think that Erasmus had intended for this word God in II Corinthians 4:4 to mean Satan? Would he not have used the word that meant Satan? This is simple logic from a simple man.

It should be apparent at this point that many previous versions of the English Bible and other important text had a capital "G" God and not a little "g" in this passage of scripture as did the original 1611 King James version of the Bible.

Lively Stone 02-02-2008 02:58 PM

The evidence is overwhelming and irrefutable. The Bible is its own best commentary. There can be no doubt that God is the only one who blinds the minds of men. There can be no doubt that Satan is not the ("god of this world"). There can be no doubt that the present day King James Bible should have a capital "G" God in this passage of scripture, as did many previous English translations and the original 1611 King James Bible.

This is an attempt of Satan and New Age philosophers to add into Gods Holy writ another name for him. This is how Satan operates; always concealing his true identity with another symbol or name, and thereby gain legitimacy. Because he has deceived many Christians, he has become the “god” of this world. This Bible scripture simply does not say this in II Corinthians 4:4. It is completely out of context with chapter 3 of II Corinthians.

The Bible says you can make your belly your God. (Note the capital “G” God.) Making a little “g” God from “theos” again would be completely subjective and would be out of context. It is for certain that a belly is not a God. You can make it your God, but it is still a belly. You could make Satan your God, but he is still just a fallen angel thrown out of heaven for lusting to exalt himself above the real and true God.

Phi 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind
earthly things.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,Ye are gods?
Jesus was quoting from Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34: defines itself with the King James Versions built in dictionary. Psalms 82:6 “Ye are gods” means we are the children of the most High.

The Bible is very clear that the kingdoms of this world do not belong to Satan. Yes, Satan offered the kingdoms of the world to Jesus, however Satan is a liar and the kingdoms were not his to give. He is and always has been a pretender to the throne of God. The book of Daniel makes it very clear to whom the kingdoms of the earth belong and how it is that these kingdoms are put in place.

Dan 4:17 “ the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.”

Dan 4:25 “ till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.”

Dan 4:32 “ they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over Thee, until thou know
that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.”
Dan 4:33 “ till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws. seven times shall pass
over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever
he will.

Dan 4:34 whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in
the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him,
what doest thou?

Psa 145:13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.

Respectfully, I would offer the following to anyone, who would read and challenge this argument and would
not agree with it. Please present your challenge in writing so there will not be disparity on what the exact points of controversy are. It will be greatly appreciated.

Challenge:

1. Prove using scriptures from the King James Bible, A.V., using no Greek lexicons, manuscripts or commentary’s, that Satan has been given the kingdoms of the world for his control.

2. Prove using scriptures from the King James Bible, A.V., using no Greek lexicons, manuscripts or commentary’s that Satan has the power to blind anyone without the permission of God.

3. (Use only King James Bible scriptures comparing spiritual things with spiritual.) i.e. scripture with scripture.

Psa 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.

1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be
given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

This is the same lust that got Lucifer thrown out of heaven. He lusted to be equal with God. He
lusted to be worshiped as God. He even lusted for Jesus to bow down and worship him. Satan (father of lies)
lied and offered Jesus kingdoms that were not his to give. This same fleshly lust in man is what draws and entices people to not follow Gods’ word. Temptation and lust not overcome, make people blind to their sin.

Much assumption and conjecture have been passed down through time denying that God is in charge of
the affairs of man and the kingdoms of the earth. The following scriptures prove this to be incorrect thinking.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

As for me and my house, I do not want any of this damnation on us. I do not want God to get our attention and
make us go into the field and eat grass like King Nebuchadnezzar in the book of Daniel, because we don’t know
who has the power and who rules in the kingdom of men.

The only proper and truthful course of action is to correct this teaching and give God the glory instead of Satan for things that are clearly governed by the real God of this world.

The little “g” needs to be changed to capital “G” and eliminate the confusion. We all know who is the author of confusion.

This thesis is a good example of why we must be ever vigilant against the changing of words and letters in the
Holy Bible, the 1611 Kings James Version. Even an error in capitalization can cause a revolution of doctrine.
Doctrine so expounded upon cannot possibly be sound doctrine.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they
heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Today, so-called English bible language scholars and higher critics are churning out revision upon revision of the word of God until it has become a doctrinal nightmare of deception and folly, clearly an abomination to the Lord God.

Why don’t these men let the word of God correct them, instead of them correcting the word of God? They have their reasons, million$ of them.

These blaspheming heretics care nothing for truth as they deceive all who will believe in their corrupted perverted manuscripts, as they change the Holy Word of God to fit their liberal new age Satanic beliefs and agenda. They deceive and help usher in the one world bible for the followers of the one world church government of which the man 666 will be in charge. Let him who has ears to hear, “(hear).”

These new age liberals ignore the 5,300 plus extant received text manuscripts and the vernacular versions of Bibles that agree with the King James Bible that can be traced to before 360 A.D. Instead they use the rather recently discovered 44 corrupt minority Greek manuscripts found in a trashcan at a Catholic monastery at Mt. Sinai in Egypt to bring you the latest word of God. These manuscripts do not agree with the majority text or Bibles in other languages dating back almost 2,000 years. These unscholarly manuscripts are less than 1% (.008%) of the extant manuscripts in existence. They were in a trashcan where they belonged. These manuscripts fit perfectly into the plan of those seeking to usher in the anti-christ church through the new age Luciferian movement by changing of the Holy words of God to include their symbols, words, doctrine, neo-platonic philosophy and Anglo-Catholic counter reformation of Unitarianism and Universalism. .

As I write, publishers are changing the King James Version of the Bible to suit their new age agenda. There is nothing illegal about this, as the KJV Bible does not have a copyright law on the original text. "caveat emptor" Let the buyer beware! These men energized by seducing spirits will do anything for filthy lucre and may or may not realize they are assisting the anti-christ, through corruption of the word of God. Be careful what Bible you purchase. These men’s lust for profit is blinding them and all who follow their corrupted manuscripts and teachings.

I guarantee if this thesis were evidence in a murder trial in a state that had the death penalty, this false doctrinal teaching would be hung by the neck until dead. It needs to be brought into the light and corrected by those that have the authority and power in the churches to do so.

A great hole has been punched into the protective Armour of today’s Christian Church. Through perverted Bible translations many errors are being created in doctrine. People are getting spiritual aids from NIV (HIV) and other infected so-called Bibles.

Is the doctrine that I’ve written about a soul damning doctrine that needs urgent correction by God fearing men? I believe so for the following reasons.

#I
THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND THE SPIRIT OF ERROR!

God created man and made for him two spirits, that he might walk by them until the appointed time. They are the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. In the abode of light are the origins of truth and from the source of darkness are the origins of error.

The spirits of truth and error struggle in the heart of a man; they walk in wisdom and folly, and according to each mans inheritance in truth he does right, and so he hates error; but accordingly to his possession in the lot of error he does wickedly in it, and so he abhors truth.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in
them.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak
of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

#II
SCRIPTUALLY MANDATED TO TEST TEACHINGS!
(Search, Study, Prove, Beware!!!)

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing
the word of truth.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the
rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
#III
SUCCUMBING TO SEDUCING SPIRITS AND DOCTINES OF DEVIL’S!

Only God can judge the hearts of men and we must leave that to Him. However it is every Christian’s responsibility to judge the teachings and the fruit of those teachings and accept and follow that which is clearly according to the word of God. We must not allow ourselves to succumb to the very deception warned against in the following scripture.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving
heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The well instructed Pastor or teacher must know the origin of false teaching to deal with it adequately.
Therefore the Holy Spirit speaks plainly on this point. He declares unequivocally that error is instigated not
primarily by the false teacher but by the evil spirit or devils energizing the false teacher. This truth is
enunciated by the fact that when some depart from the faith, they are said to give heed or (take up with)
seducing spirits rather than the false teachers. The result is doctrines of devils (not teachings about
devils-Satanism) but have accepted errors originated by devil powers. These teachers, teaching
falsehoods in hypocrisy, are mere insincere actors or pretenders, whose conscience is cauterized into
insensitivity to differentiate, good from evil, error from truth.

Lively Stone 02-02-2008 03:00 PM

1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

In the hour we are in we can expect to see more deceiving spirits spewing forth lies, false doctrine, false
Bibles and doctrines of seducing devil powers. As a Private Investigator, I was trained to follow the money
trail. The love of money is the root of all evil.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from
the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

If you don’t believe this go on the internet and try to find a searchable New King James Bible without paying
for it. This and other new age bibles must have their pound of flesh before revealing their alleged truth of God.
Not so with the King James Version that gives the word of God freely.

Who is making the money you ask? Those who write and copyright all these false bibles and their publishers
make huge profits of filthy lucre at the expense of the actual meaning and truth of the word of God. Do you
think they do it because they love the word of God? They have pierced themselves with many sorrows and
unfortunately those who believe their lies.
# IV
GOD SAID IT, THERFORE IT IS TRUE!

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from
the law, till all be fulfilled.

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that
ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached
unto you.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take
away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

#V

FRUIT OF FALSELY EXALTING SATAN!

Here are some of the results of this teaching being expounded upon by some of the so-called Bibles. One must wonder what is next in the perversion of Gods Holy Word!

Ask yourself, from what manuscripts did these scriptures come from? How bold they are that take pen in hand
and hack away at the Holy writ without fear of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 (The Message)The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
3-4 If our Message is obscure to anyone, it's not because we're holding back in any way. No, it's because these other people are looking or going the wrong way and refuse to give it serious attention. All they have eyes for is the fashionable god of darkness. They think he can give them what they want, and that they won't have to bother believing a Truth they can't see. They're stone-blind to the dayspring brightness of the Message that shines with Christ, who gives us the best picture of God we'll ever get.
2 Corinthians 4:4 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
4Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don't understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 (New Life Version)
New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
4 The eyes of those who do not believe are made blind by Satan who is the god of this world. He does not want the light of the Good News to shine in their hearts. This Good News shines as the shining-greatness of Christ. Christ is as God is.
2 Corinthians 4:4 (Wycliffe New Testament)
Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)
2001 by Terrence P. Noble,
4 in which [the] god of this world, that is, the devil, hath blinded the souls of unfaithful men, that the lightening of the gospel of the glory of Christ, which is the image of God, shine not. [a]
Footnotes:
a. 2 Corinthians 4:4 in which the god of this world, that is, the devil, or pride, hath blinded the souls of men out of belief, or unfaithful men, that the lighting of the gospel of the glory of Christ, that is the image of God, shine not.
When was King James resurrected from the dead in order to authorize all the New King James Bibles. Do you think calling it a King James Bible might be deceptive or an outright lie?
If one looks at the New King James Version it becomes apparent how this false doctrine of Satan being the “god of this world” gets reinforcement from incorrect corrupt Bible data, from this and other corrupted Bibles. Compare the following verses of scripture.
1 John 5:19 King James Version “whole world lieth in wickedness”. New King James Version “whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one”.
Luke 11:4 King James Version “deliver us from evil”. New King James Version “deliver us from the evil one”.
Matthew 5:3 King James Version “of evil”. New King James Version “the evil one”.
Bible critics, alleged scholars, teachers and preachers have the unmitigated gall to say that these Bibles are the same, “just easier to understand omitting the thee’s and thou’s” and archaic words like God, Jesus, Holy, Blood, heaven, repent, hell, Lord, damnation, devils, Jehovah, New Testament, superstition, bewitched, heretic, heathen, heresy, fornication, comforter, lust, sodomite, effeminate and hundreds of other changes affecting the word definition and doctrine of God. The fact is these bibles are easier to misunderstand.
The New King James Bible is not the same as the Authorized King James Bible. If they said the same thing there would be no need of another translation. Things that are different cannot possibly be the same. Satan has flooded the English-speaking people with hundreds of translated Bibles, of opposing words and doctrines of devils.
It does not take a rocket scientist to see what Satan has done. He has exalted himself through the changing of a capital word God to a little “g” god. This false doctrine has been fully entrenched in the Christian Churches for generations and is being taught by new age liberal teachers in the seminaries and churches that turn out deceived teachers and preachers, being energized by seducing spirits using false Bibles. I am positive there will be many other similar Bible translations in the future to add incorrect conjured words to the collection of so called English Bibles. These corrupt bibles cause most of Christendom to doubt that God could and would preserve his word for all generations, as he said he would.
It is a sin to exalt and attribute things that are of God, as powers of Satan. Once enlightened to the truth of such a doctrine I believe it would be soul damning not to repent and denounce and teach the correct doctrine.
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for
darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that
ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

We are living in an era of increased knowledge as God said it would be.

God said: Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:
many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

God charges us to sound the alarm.

Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not
warned; the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his
blood will I require at the hand of the watchman.

Brothers and Sisters: Allowing men of questionable character and motives to tamper with and roll the dice with
corrupt words using Greek lexicons, altered new age bibles and corrupt Greek manuscripts that infect the Word of GOD like a cancer spreading across the globe is not acceptable.

Pro 22:12 The eyes of the LORD preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor.
Let us begin now to preserve knowledge, and “overthroweth the words of the transgressor.”

I leave you with these final scriptures of irrefutable Biblical proof that God is, “God of this world.”

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and
for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in
all things he might have the preeminence.

The above scripture’s includes the throne, dominion, principality or powers of Satan. If Satan had the power to
blind minds then who would believe and be converted to salvation?

We will not bow before the judgment seat of Jesus Christ and say “the devil made me do it.”

The martyr’s went to their gruesome deaths never denying or giving in to torture to save themselves. They spoke the truth reprimanding the devils that would challenge the pure and tried in the fire Word of God. They will have given their lives in vain, if men who believe the word of God is not infallible, is ever changing, open to criticism, are allowed to be the unspiritual interpreters, not comparing spiritual with spiritual as the Bible says they should.

What blood has been shed by these higher critics, scholars, and corruptors of the word? These new Bible versions of corruption are leading the Churches of God to seek a new path, a new god, a new Jesus, a new morality and a new world church. Would they be willing to be martyred for their corrupt bibles? I doubt it.

Many churches, allow their sheep to be deceived by allowing any Bible to be used. Teachers and preachers in various learning environments have asked me, “what does your Bible say?” My answer is always another question. Is there more than one Bible, and if so which one can I believe is God breathed, and infallible?

I pray that men and women of the Christian faith of integrity, honor, lovers of truth, lovers of the word of God to please come to your senses and realize “an enemy hath done this!” The gauntlet has been dropped and we are at war for the preservation of the pure word and doctrine of God. All God fearing Christians are compelled to join the battle, and uphold Gods holy word.

God’s word is infallible, never changing, and is not subject to criticism from anyone who fears God. God’s word is not of any private interpretation. Spiritual words should be compared with spiritual words; meaning scriptures should be compared with other scriptures to understand the spiritual meaning. Greek lexicons, bible notes, commentary’s and bibles from the minority Greek manuscripts that agree with the New Age god promoters, Catholic Church, Jehovah’s Witness’s, Masonry, Mormonism, and seducing spirits promoting the doctrine of devils are paving the road for the Anti-Christ. Let us not give aid and comfort to the enemies of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.

Diligent 02-02-2008 03:33 PM

Quote:

1. Prove using scriptures from the King James Bible, A.V., using no Greek lexicons, manuscripts or commentary’s, that Satan has been given the kingdoms of the world for his control.

2. Prove using scriptures from the King James Bible, A.V., using no Greek lexicons, manuscripts or commentary’s that Satan has the power to blind anyone without the permission of God.

3. (Use only King James Bible scriptures comparing spiritual things with spiritual.) i.e. scripture with scripture.
I note you took the liberty of "using the Greek" in your own discussion, but I don't see the necessity.

Point 2 is a red herring, since you provide the qualification already accepted: yes, God allows it. That doesn't change the fact that God has, for a time, allowed Satan to have dominion over "this world" (which I understand to mean this age).



Who is the "prince of the power of the air?"
Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Convincing me that this isn't a reference to our adversary (Satan) is going to take some doing!
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
And what was Christ referring to when he said:
Matthew 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
How can we say Satan has no kingdom when Christ said he did?

Who did Christ mean when he said:
John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Why would the "god of this world" call the wisdom of this world foolish?
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
And what of this?
1 Corinthians 2:6-8 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Finally, if the Kingdoms of this world are already Christ's, what of this?
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
This hasn't happened yet. The "god of this world" is Satan, whom God has appointed to that position for this age.

jerry 02-02-2008 03:34 PM

1) The word used for world in that verse means course or age - ie. this world system - not this planet.

2) There is also this verse that refers to Satan:

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Besides, how does attributing things to Satan - such as what he was allowed to do in Job 1-2 - slander or misrepresent God? It is quite clear what happened to Job WAS caused by Satan, so where is the dispute?

Quote:

1. Who controls such powers as evil, lying spirits and all other entities and powers that could produce the effect of keeping people from believing (or blinding their minds) keeping them from believing the light of the glorious gospel?
2. Who “blinds the minds of them which believe not?”
3. Why should the little “g” god in this scripture be a capital “G” God?
1. God is sovereignly in control - that does not mean He caused something. He did not create sin or moral evil. He created evil in the sense of calamities, trials, afflictions - ie. natural evil, such as tornados, storms, etc.

2. Depending upon the context, both God and Satan/devils.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Comparing this with Revelation 12-13, God sends the delusion as a judgment of their rejection of the truth and the Saviour. Allowed by God, sent by Satan.

3. Last I checked in my King James Bible, the word "god" had a little "g". I don't believe in correcting my Bible, do you? Crossreferenced with John 12:31, I firmly believe Satan is in view in that verse.

Diligent 02-02-2008 03:53 PM

Quote:

(Note: the capital "G" in the original 1611 KJV.)
By the way, I don't think this line of argumentation supports your case. This is not the only verse where an upper-case G in the 1611 edition was changed to lower-case g in subsequent editions. Another example is here:
Psalms 16:4 Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.
In the 1611 edition it reads "another God."
Psalms 44:20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;
1611 edition reads "strange God."

Also in Ps 81:9; Isa 43:12; Isa 44:10, 15; Dan 3:28; 4:8; lots of others -- I stopped counting here!

Here's another:
Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
1611 edition reads "your God Remphan." Should we also change that back?

The fact is that our current KJV represents a purification of previous editions (as the KJV itself was a purification of previous translation). When cross-referencing "god of this world" with "prince of the powers of the air," etc, clearly shows us that Satan is to whom this refers, it doesn't seem like a good idea to advocate that we revert this one lower-case g to upper-case because of previous editions.

Lively Stone 02-02-2008 04:26 PM

Bro. Brandon

If you won't believe God. If you will not accept historical facts then I have nothing more to say. Any further discussion on my part would not be convenient. I have shown you the facts of what God said in the KJB. You make puny referances now with a couple of loose scriptures to make a point that I gave you dozens of scripture to make my point. So you say the Bible does not mean what it says. The word means age. That is reinterpreting. You are simply not qualified in any manner to do that.

It is like you said Bro. Brandon. If you don't like the message, kill the messanger. I have to prepare, for tommorrow is Sunday. I regret that I do not have the time nor the will to engage in endless diatribe about the Word of God. It is your ball run with it and may God bless you in your endeaver.

Bro. Danny

Diligent 02-02-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lively Stone (Post 117)
If you won't believe God.

:rolleyes:

The "god of this world" easily cross-references with Ephesians 2, which I have already quoted. To say that the "god of this world" is the One True God is to say that God's spirit is "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

I believe God when Christ preached in John 14:30, which I have already quoted.

Quote:

The word means age. That is reinterpreting.
How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.



Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
You should not accuse me of not believing God. Jesus preached that the devil uses this power. How can I be accused of not believing God by taking this at face value?

Is a discussion of how Satan is given this power warranted? Indeed so, but it is established clearly in Scripture that the power is there.

Another poster already showed how this comes about:
(2Th 2) "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Lively Stone 02-04-2008 03:01 PM

Bro. Brandon:

Quote:

this age(which I understand to mean ).
Lean not unto your own understanding for the translators who had access to material we never dreamed of decided this should be world and not age.

This is an attempt of Satan and New Age philosophers to add into Gods Holy writ another name for him. This is how Satan operates; always concealing his true identity with another symbol or name, and thereby gain legitimacy. Because he has deceived many Christians, he has become the “god” of this world. This Bible scripture simply does not say this in II Corinthians 4:4. It is completely out of context with chapter 3 of II Corinthians.

You seem to want to change the thesis I wrote to another argument. I can understand that a seminary trained denominational pastor would have to defend their position even it it were wrong. It is hard to admit that one has been glorifying Satan and giving him glory the Bible simply does not give him.
A few pastors have repented of this heresy but not many because they would face the wrath of their denomination and lose their credentials. It is hard to repent for teaching error after all your a pastor. My experience of 62 years is pastors don't repent unless they get caught.

Quote:

The "god of this world" easily cross-references with Ephesians 2, which I have already quoted. To say that the "god of this world" is the One True God is to say that God's spirit is "the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."
Now you are simply making up nonsense. How does prince of the power of the air equate with being a god. A prince is not even a King. You have tried to be deceptive and mislead the readers.

Quote:

The word means age. That is reinterpreting.
How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.

Really off the subject. You claim to be the champion of the perfect word of God and then try to reinterpretet it and change the words. Simply not being honest with what you claim you believe.

Quote:

you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.
Yes that is exactly what I am doing and like you said in your own comment, your comment is beside the point and misleading to the readers.

Quote:

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Wonderful scripture and very true but has nothing to do with the argument. Are you straining at a knat? The thesis is not about whether or not Satan has power. My thesis proves he does if God says he does. Did you read the entire thesis or did you just start attacking it to kill the messinger. Please stick to the argument.

Quote:

You should not accuse me of not believing God. Jesus preached that the devil uses this power. How can I be accused of not believing God by taking this at face value
Because the issue presented is not about the power of Satan. Again did you read it in it's entirety? You are willing to change word in the Bible when it is conenient to your argument. Is that living up to what you claim your site is about and believing God?

You go on rambling about the power of Satan in a gleeful manner further and distort the whole basis of my thesis. Exalt him some more.

There is life and death in the power of the toungue and you have made Satan a god. Wow and no where in the Bible does it say this. That is quite a pronoucement upon the people you shepard. Better to teach about the power of the name of Jesus Christ.Another poster already showed how this comes about:

Quote:

(2Th 2) "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
Thats a coincidence I quoted that scripture in my thesis. Don't you have anything to disprove my thesis instead of changing the subject and quoting scriptures I already quoted? Come on you are not disproving my thesis but simple playing at kill the messenger. I don't believe you would repent even if read the thesis and agreed. I simply do not believe you have given my thesis adequate reading.

Quote:

(Note: the capital "G" in the original 1611 KJV.)

By the way, I don't think this line of argumentation supports your case. This is not the only verse where an upper-case G in the 1611 edition was changed to lower-case g in subsequent editions. Another example is here:
So what? If you had read my thesis I showed you some Bibles including the KJB and some previous versions in English and German and Aramaic. Someone made a mistake making that a little "g" to cause much confusion. Why would previous versions have a capital G and not now. You are wrong again.

Quote:

The fact is that our current KJV represents a purification of previous editions (as the KJV itself was a purification of previous translation). When cross-referencing "god of this world" with "prince of the powers of the air," etc, clearly shows us that Satan is to whom this refers, it doesn't seem like a good idea to advocate that we revert this one lower-case g to upper-case because of previous editions.
Then why in this scripture is the purified version have a capital G. A belly is not a big G God.

Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Your argument is just plain silly.

Quote:

3. Last I checked in my King James Bible, the word "god" had a little "g". I don't believe in correcting my Bible, do you? Crossreferenced with John 12:31, I firmly believe Satan is in view in that verse.
Do your homework. The KJB has had hundreds of thousands of spelling and grammar corrections. At what point do think there were no more spelling and grammatical errors?

Quote:

Convincing me that this isn't a reference to our adversary (Satan) is going to take some doing!
Never said that. Again you are throwing dust in the air because you have neither read nor understood my thesis. You take many liberties with the truth.

My impression you will say anything to try to make points with your readers so you won't be wrong. The fact is however you have raised many questions and quoted many scriptures, none of which have anything at all to do with my thesis that Satan is not the God of this world or any other place. You want to glorify him to god status. The Bible never, never calls him that. If you read my thesis, I show some of the perverted bibles that now use the word satan as part of their quote because you preachers have made up this stupidity for so many years it is now considered matter of fact by attrition.

Bro. Danny

jerry 02-04-2008 03:19 PM

Danny, you might want to back off from calling the Administrator of these message boards a heretic and someone blinded to what the Bible actually says - you certainly are not going to fit in here too well then!!

Quote:

How is the word "world" used in 2Pe 3:6? If the "world that then was" doesn't mean a time passed, what does it mean? We see from the Bible's own use of the word that it can mean a period of time (age). This is somewhat beside the point, though -- you are arguing that "the god of this world" in 2Co 4:4 is not Satan but the One True God.
If you are going to rant and rave, you might want to be a little more careful in your quoting of previous posts. The way you have things blockquoted in your response above actually makes this look like your statement - and therefore confuses your readers and makes them think you are off your rocker (ie. because it looks like you are flipping your position around).

Diligent 02-04-2008 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lively Stone (Post 158)
I can understand that a seminary trained denominational pastor would have to defend their position even it it were wrong.

Never been to seminary, am not a pastor. Just a Bible student interested in understanding God's word. I've got no problem with reading your position and even discussing it with you, but you seem quick to turn things personal. You're quick to assume I have some ulterior motive in my responses other than an honest exchange.

The fact is, the idea that Satan is the "god of this world" is nothing novel and certainly not an invention of mine. You really need to ease up a bit in the "you don't believe God" nonsense. It's just not warranted.

I'll be considering your viewpoint carefully in my future study. I don't know that there is anything else to say about it than that.

As for your other points -- you brought up more than just this one verse in your posts, including who has the power to blind mens' eyes, etc -- and so I responded to what I thought was the totality of your arguments, not just the one specific issue in the thread topic. I'm not trying to confuse things at all. You ought not be so suspicious.

Diligent 02-04-2008 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry (Post 159)
Danny, you might want to back off from calling the Administrator of these message boards a heretic and someone blinded to what the Bible actually says - you certainly are not going to fit in here too well then!!

I would like Danny to treat me like he would anyone else. I've been running the KJBP since 1995 and Danny's comments against me are pretty mild next to some of the emails I routinely get.

However, it would seem meet for any of us to give others who claim to hold to the final authority of God's word in the AV the benefit of the doubt, and not so carelessly throw about accusations of disbelieving God simply because one disagrees with a theological position.

jerry 02-04-2008 04:07 PM

Thanks Brandon. I just get tired of someone coming on to someone else's boards, posting different theology - then calling the Mods or Admins (or regular members of the boards that hold the same general positions) heretics, etc. because they don't believe whatever novel theology the other person is bringing in. If it lines up with the Bible, they need to show that - and not just call every one a compromiser, etc. just because they don't automatically accept what is being presented. I know I am new to these boards here - but I have been a Mod or Admin of various boards the last 6 or 7 years and I have seen a lot of it. To me, it seems better to head it off at the pass, but I realize I am a newcomer here too. God bless.

Lively Stone 02-04-2008 07:49 PM

Bro. Brandon:

Quote:

I would like Danny to treat me like he would anyone else. I've been running the KJBP since 1995 and Danny's comments against me are pretty mild next to some of the emails I routinely get.
Well Bro. Brandon I have treated you better than I would most people who would start attacking a thesis which represents years of study on a matter of sound doctrine. By your own admission you have not considered nor studied the matter but will at some future date. Is it fair to me and the readers that I should bear the brunt of arguring about doctrine that is not in my thesis. You tried to hijack the discussion and take it where you wanted it without due consideration. Do I respect that. No, but because of something you said that did touch me in my heart and convict me that you are truly a Godly man and are seeking the truth I am not going to take it to heart toward you. I will quote you from my thesis if that is alright.

"God created man and made for him two spirits, that he might walk by them until the appointed time. They are the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. In the abode of light are the origins of truth and from the source of darkness are the origins of error.

The spirits of truth and error struggle in the heart of a man; they walk in wisdom and folly, and according to each mans inheritance in truth he does right, and so he hates error; but accordingly to his possession in the lot of error he does wickedly in it, and so he abhors truth." These are my words. There are scriptures quoted in my thesis to confirm this.

I quote this to you Bro. Brandon in Christian love. The search for the truth is a lifetime endeavor. I don't have it all nor does anyone else. So, please don't summarily dismiss what I consider to be a great pearl that I am laying at your feet. Truth is found here a little there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept. Read the thesis and pray about it. Don't be dilligent like the new perverted bibles say but Study.

This is a little off topic but either you or Bro. Jerry tryed to equate something about Christ kingdom at some future date according to Revelations. I agree with the rapture, the second coming of Jesus and His millenial reign where he will straighten out this evil and corrupt world and establish His reign here on the earth and kick out the pretender Satan.

But remember Jesus said:

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If the Kingdom of God is within you that is not a future event. Jesus is God. John 1:1 So you see His Kingdom is already here on the earth. So you see the thesis is not about the millenial reign or any of the other diversions that were interjected into the attack upon my thesis. Fair is Fair. Don't do that.

On the subject of respect. I was taught my Christian brothers and sisters should be addressed as such. That is why I always refer to them in such a respectful manor as either brother or sister. Neither you nor Jerry should disrespect an elder of the church in that mannor. I mean that literally and figuratively.

Bro. Jerry.
Quote:

To me, it seems better to head it off at the pass, but I realize I am a newcomer here too. God bless
Your threats fall on deaf ears. I teach and preach the way I want. If the fire is too hot get out of the kitchen. Read the thesis before you start whining and slinging mud. The only one I will answer to is God almighty. Do some study before you answer your elders and make threats. There are scripture about that you may want to read. You seem to like to want me removed from the board instead of presenting anything of a nature of true rebuttal to what I originally presented. Just chasing rabbits. Maybe in time you will mature to be able to engage in such challenging debate. To do so means to Study what has been said and then respond on point. Not to offer some off the wall comment or scripture not on topic. Sometimes people get offended. Go almost anywhere and quote scripture to a stranger and most of the time it will not be welcome. Presenting the correction of a falsely taught doctrine is recieved the same way. Maybe seducing spirits, maybe lack of caring, satified with status quo, think they already know the answer because they have locked a sovereign God in a box to where Satan is big and God who created him is little. Whatever the case there are no powers, principalities, or anything else that God is not in control of. If you do not believe that then one might as well become a lucerferian devil worshipper.

Bro. Danny

jerry 02-04-2008 09:06 PM

Quote:

"God created man and made for him two spirits, that he might walk by them until the appointed time. They are the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. In the abode of light are the origins of truth and from the source of darkness are the origins of error.
Brandon, have fun, looks like you got a live one on your hands... Someone who has departed the realm of Bible doctrine and wandered into fantasy.

Diligent 02-04-2008 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lively Stone (Post 165)
Well Bro. Brandon I have treated you better than I would most people who would start attacking a thesis

Perhaps that was your first problem -- you viewed me as attacking your work, when I was doing nothing of the sort.

Quote:

By your own admission you have not considered nor studied the matter but will at some future date.
You've misunderstood me. I certainly have studied the issue of who "the god of this world" is. What I said is that as I approach this topic in my study in the future (meaning tomorrow, or even in a few hours, etc) I will keep your position in mind.

Quote:

Read the thesis and pray about it. Don't be dilligent like the new perverted bibles say but Study.
You seem to make statements designed specifically to put me on the defensive. Here you've alluded to my forum handle (Diligent) and then imply it has something to do with modern versions. I know the verse and the modern corruption of it to which you refer, but my KJV has the word "diligent" in 14 verses.

By all means, encourage study. Study is a Christian man's duty. But don't lace your encouragement with such vitriol.

Lively Stone 02-04-2008 10:38 PM

Bro. Brandon


Quote:

You seem to make statements designed specifically to put me on the defensive. Here you've alluded to my forum handle (Diligent) and then imply it has something to do with modern versions. I know the verse and the modern corruption of it to which you refer, but my KJV has the word "diligent" in 14 verses.

Excuse me. Are we getting paranoid now? I really like to use proper names when addressing a brother or sister in the Lord.
When did I ever call you Dilligent. I always called you respectfully Bro. Brandon. Now I can't use dictionary words without repercussion. I didn't know that you would be so sensitive and defensive about every word I say.

Quote:

Perhaps that was your first problem -- you viewed me as attacking your work, when I was doing nothing of the sort.
Well lets see now. You didn't read the material and see it in its proper context and started making statements and quotes that had nothing to do with my thesis or what I said. I believe any rational person would call that an attack whether deliberate or otherwise. Sorry, brother if I say things that bother you but I will defend myself and my position.

Quote:

But don't lace your encouragement with such vitriol.
I don't believe that what I said at all rises to the occasion of your statement that you accuse me of. Pehaps you are being a jackpudding about this whole matter.

Bro. Danny

Diligent 02-04-2008 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lively Stone (Post 181)
Now I can't use dictionary words without repercussion. I didn't know that you would be so sensitive and defensive about every word I say.

My mistake then, I read something you didn't put there.

Quote:

Well lets see now. You didn't read the material and see it in its proper context and started making statements and quotes that had nothing to do with my thesis or what I said. I believe any rational person would call that an attack whether deliberate or otherwise. Sorry, brother if I say things that bother you but I will defend myself and my position.
If I was "bothered" I'd have stopped responding a dozen posts back.

I believe the verses I have quoted directly apply to understanding what is meant by the "god of this world." That's why I quoted them. If I may add something without rehashing what has already been said: Your argument about who the "god of this world" is appears to be based on who you think has certain powers -- at least I thought that is why you asked me to show you with scripture who can blind eyes besides God. My position is simply that we can know who is spoken of in 2Co 4:4 by looking at other verses that teach the same precept about those who reject the truth, such as Eph 2:2,3; Lu 8:12; Mt 13:19, etc -- these verses are teaching the same precept, and therefor shed light on who is meant by "god of this world." I did not raise those verses up as a distraction. For me they shed abundant light on the matter.

And I have nothing else to say on the subject. Any reply you make will be the last word.

Quote:

jackpudding
Heh -- I had to look that one up.

Lively Stone 02-04-2008 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diligent (Post 183)
My mistake then, I read something you didn't put there.



If I was "bothered" I'd have stopped responding a dozen posts back.

I believe the verses I have quoted directly apply to understanding what is meant by the "god of this world." That's why I quoted them. If I may add something without rehashing what has already been said: Your argument about who the "god of this world" is appears to be based on who you think has certain powers -- at least I thought that is why you asked me to show you with scripture who can blind eyes besides God. My position is simply that we can know who is spoken of in 2Co 4:4 by looking at other verses that teach the same precept about those who reject the truth, such as Eph 2:2,3; Lu 8:12; Mt 13:19, etc -- these verses are teaching the same precept, and therefor shed light on who is meant by "god of this world." I did not raise those verses up as a distraction. For me they shed abundant light on the matter.

And I have nothing else to say on the subject. Any reply you make will be the last word.



Heh -- I had to look that one up.


Bro. Brandon:

I would really appreciate if you would read the thesis. Pray and analyze what was reseached dilligently (no disrespect implied or intended) by myself and others. At one point in the last 12 years I consulted a college Koine Greek professor for an opinion on certain words. I did not just throw this thesis together on the spare of the moment. You are really quite a likeable brother and I can see that you have done you homework by studying Gods Word. Also I am a King James only Christian except I will accept some previous translantions prior to the KJV otherwise God would not have preserved His word, and God cannot lie. I believe that the KJB is the only Bible we can trust. My thesis is based on a man made mistake that was not in the original 1611 version. What I would like to do Bro. Brandon if you are agreeable is for us to have a private discussion by private e-mail, even perhaps by phone on occasion. I have a feeling we will become great friends even if you never agree with my thesis. God occasionally will impart knowlege to an individual and it may not be recieved. That is why their is such division in the church and a church on every corner.

I repent right now in the name of Jesus if I have offended or caused you undo grief. That was not my intent. I don't think I did because you seem to be a very mature Christian brother. My intent was to share a great pearl of Gods wisdom. I would hope that you will be agreeable to such a discussion to be conducted with the utmost of Christian love and respect.

Yes jackpudding is a rare word. I was just showing off. God forgive me.

Thank you for giving me the last word. You are a gentleman.

I love you in the Lord.

Bro. Danny

conwaytim 02-11-2008 06:01 PM

Bro. Brandon,
Thanks so much for your work here. Thanks for standing for the truth!
Tim

Beth 02-13-2008 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diligent (Post 39)
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
I don't really see the problem in acknowledging that Satan is the "god of this world," since it is said in the Bible, and Christ himself said his kingdom was not of this world. Also, by claiming Satan's temptation was empty, isn't that saying it wasn't a temptation?

Just looking around me, it would seem that prophecy of Christ's kingdom on earth is not yet fulfilled.

Amen. Praise the Lord, Satan's time is short!

Quote:

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

LIVNBYFAITH 02-16-2008 04:07 PM

I just have one question after reading all the replies to the original question. Can you not look around the world today,and see who is truly the god of this world? I believe God is the God of all things, and is truly the ruler of all, but NOW is the time of free will, and Grace. God still rules over all, and allows things to take place, but with all that is going on today is NOT of God. ie, murder,adultry,child moelesters, these things are not the will of God, satan is the god of this world, the world is of the flesh, and satan plays on this. So back to my question, can you not look around and tell?? or is this just me?

LIVNBYFAITH 02-16-2008 04:10 PM

After reading my post I would like to clear up that, "world is of the flesh" as meaning the world is just offering things pleasing to the flesh. Not pleasing to God.:)


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