God hates the sinner or just the sin?
 

It seems that there are passages in the Bible that teach that God hates sinners. I don't like that idea, but it appears to be Biblical. My whole life I had heard that "God hates the sin, not the sinner" but somewhere in Psalms it says that God hates sinners. What is the truth on this matter?

I've never really thought about that. God "hates" the sinner?

Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Interesting. Reconciling the wrath, anger, and hatred of God; with His love, kindness, mercy, and grace.

A just, holy, righteous God cannot stand sin in His presence; a sinner is someone who is covered in sin, and actively rejecting the ultimate sacrifice of His only Son, Jesus Christ. How could anyone love a person that refused to accept your sacrifice of a child?

This all ties in with the classic nonsense "God doesn't change anything." It's abundantly clear that God does change His mind, among other things, though His character and qualities are always the same. In essence, God is planning on putting a detestable sinner in Hell because He is righteous and cannot abide sin, and the sinner is actively refusing His incredible gift. However, when that person accepts Christ as His Saviour, He changes His mind from putting that person in Hell, to accepting Him in the beloved.

God is not like us; the only human that ever hated someone without sinning was David (Ps. 139:22). Jesus clearly said that if we hate someone, we're guilty of murder already. Therefore it is not our job to hate anyone, but God can do that and still be righteous and just and Holy.

I am sorry, can you clarify what you mean by David being the only human who ever hated without sin was David....I am not passing a verdict on whether you are right or wrong, I would like to see where you are coming from with that......Blessings.

Personally, I think this topic is as stupid as calvinism (sorry TA).

There are two OT verses which say God hates those that do iniquity, and those who loveth violence.

Why is it that we start applying these two OT verses to the age of Grace?

Incidentally, BEFORE Calvary, God still loved us enough, when we were yet sinners, that He died for us. God showed His love for us on the cross, and He still shows it everyday in His long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

To take two verse from the Psalms

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

And say "God hates sinners" is to be guilty of prooftexting.

The only one that says specifically that God hates sinners is Psalm 5:5 - and Psalm 5:4 says that wickedness shall not dwell with Him, And here in verse five, it says the foolish shall not stand in thy sight. Verse 6 says He shall destroy them. Now, to me, this is speaking of a great day of judgment, where sinners stand before God - in that Day, God's righteous anger and hatred will condemn those wicked fools who rejected Christ and did not have his imputed righteousness to everlasting flame.


Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Those last verses should settle it for us. They are clear - they are all referring to what God did on the cross in demonstrating His love (Romans 5:8 is another I think I left out). This was while we were yet sinners - God showed his love toward us NOW, while we were yet sinners living in sin.

Sorry AM, I don't mean to make this reply in order to upset you, but I have seen it a lot recently, so it's really a reply to everyone. Like Holiness/Pentecostal want to make sure everybody knows they can lose their salvation, it seems some IFB's want everyone to know God hates them.

Luke,


This is a very good post my friend. I'm glad God loved me when I was a sinner and saved my soul from hell. If you are saved you are saved because God loves you and gave his son for you. This is real love. Then he sent the holy ghost to convict you of your sin and impress you to accept salvation. With out God's love for sinners no one would ever get saved. This is why he sent his son was to die for and save sinners.

When it all comes down to the real deal it's very simple. Without God's love we would all go to hell. He loved us, died for us and saved our unworthy souls from hell. I find the question dose God hate sinners a very foolish question.

The real question should be. Dose God love sinners? Yes he dose, I know, I'm a very unworthy saved sinner. I'm unworthy of his love, death, and salvation. Yet he gave me this free gift because of his perfect love for me. For this I am very grateful.


Atlas

Something tricky to watch for is verb tenses and indirect objects.

"For God so loved the world..."

First, that's past tense. It doesn't say "loves." At a point in history, God loved the...

Secondly, that's "the world," not "everyone in the world" or "all the people in the world." "World" is a collective noun, not a specific noun. God saw His creation steeped in sin and headed for Hell, and His infinite love (balanced by His perfect wrath) made a way for His creation to be saved.

About David: from what I've been able to tell from Scripture (and talking to certain people who I respect for their Biblical knowledge), David is the only person in the Bible who appears to have been capable of righteous hatred. He said that he hated people, whereas we cannot do so without being guilty of murder. The fact that he is called "a man after God's own heart" is likely the cause: he was so close to God that he was capable of righteous hatred, without becoming a murderer in his heart.

Brother Luke, I agree. There is absolutely no doubt our Heavenly Father loved us first. He gave and He provided a gift that is totally undeserved and unmerited.

It seems to me, however, as we read Psalm 5 very carefully, we can conclude that God still "hatest all workers of iniquity". The question is who are the wicked, evil, foolish workers of iniquity? They are haters who despise and reject God.

Specifically, these are the ones God is said to hate. I think the emphasis in these two verses clarifies that "evil will not dwell with God" and "the foolish will not stand in God's sight" and He hates the workers of iniquity.

They will not "dwell" with God or "stand in His sight" and be "hated as workers of iniquity" by God, because they rejected Him. This holds true for all men. The good news, as you pointed out, we have no fear of God's wrath because we have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Psalms 5:4-5 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Vince, you have a problem with that line of reasoning.

You are saying God loved, as in past tense, prior to the cross, and his love was demonstrated by the cross. So you are saying God loved the world (before the cross) so he sent his begotten son (to the cross).

But Psalm 5:5 is pre-calvary, and it's the only verse in the Bible that says God hates sinners.

So before the cross - on the one hand you have God hating sinners, and on the other hand, you have God loving the world (the world means the whole world - don't redefine it brother - it doesn't mean, some people of the world - there are none righteous and God is no respecter of persons). So which is it?

If Psalm 5:5 applies to the day of judgment when the wicked stand before that great throne, and God casts all sin away from Him and no sin dwells in His presence, then there is no problem with these verses.

Luke, I didn't redefine anything; I simply said that "world" is collective, as in God's whole human creation. Basically everyone, but in a more general sense. You'll see Paul speaking of God loving "us," but taken in context, that's the Church as a whole, the body of Christ (I personally believe).

I believe that God poured out His love for the entire human race on Calvary, even as He was pouring out His wrath on His Son. I believe that, at that moment, and even before Bethlehem, God loved Aussiemama and Vendetta and Atlas and Luke; and that He also loved Osama and Hitler and Ted Bundy and the atheists who sneer at Him. Were it not for that love, none of us would be saved.

Since Calvary, I believe that God does indeed hate sinners, or at least some sinners; His word says so. If you consider the magnitude of what He did at Calvary, it's obvious that He has nothing left to prove, and He owes the people who reject His Son nothing but Hell.

I believe in the "past tense" idea: God so loved the world. But, in John 17, Jesus even refused to pray for the world. I do not believe that God loves the people, in 2008, who reject and revile His Son.

And that's all I'm gonna say at this time. I know this is a subject that troubles Brother Atlas, and I do not care to grieve his spirit, or anyone else's, simply for the sake of expounding my own tiny understanding.

This matter can be, and has been, the source of much contention, and I do not wish to add to it for the umpteenth time.

God loved everybody that we will ever come in contact with. That should be enough to motivate us to take His word to them.

VR,


If Adolf Hitler would have turned to the Lord and been drawn by the Holy Ghost and turned to God and ask God to save him. God would have saved him from his sin and Hitler would be in heaven right now as we speak.



This is how much God's loves sinners. As evil as Hitler was, Jesus even died for him and it was God's perfect will for Adolf Hitler to get saved.


Atlas

Atlas, I haven't seen anyone say that God wouldn't save anyone. He simply, according to the Scriptures, doesn't love those people until they are "accepted in the beloved." If you have specific Scripture that says God loves sinners (present tense), then share it by all means. However, I have Bible verses that speak of God explicitly hating people in the present and past (perfect) tenses.

I just find it hard to believe, number one, that a holy, righteous God could love a wretched, Christ-rejecting sinner, and number two, that a God who did love them, could put them in Hell. If He's too holy to take them to Heaven without repentance, then how is He not too holy to love them without repentance?

Here Am I hit the nail on the head. Folks, I still have trouble in the area of spite, and God has been working on me. I started this topic to "get at" someone who I know had the potential to get very upset on this topic. I know what happened on the other site with this issue. I did want to pick a fight. Right AFTER I posted, when it was too late, I remembered that there is a verse in the Bible (several of them in Proverbs actually) that say something like that only by pride cometh strife and contention. Wish I had remembered that BEFORE I posted.

I apologize for trying to pick a fight. I guess not all of us are "mature" enough yet. *Hangs head in shame*. Please forgive me guys, especially Bro Jamie as it is him I meant to hurt with this.

Pray that God helps me overcome in this area!

aussiemama,


This is not a big deal. Every person on earth has done something for spite before, I know I have. You said you were sorry. That's all you can do. I said it was ok. No need to apologize again. I can only forgive you one time per issue. I'm also not the nicest guy in the world either. Trust me I understand how you are, I'm the same way. This is why we but heads at times. We are to much alike.

If you always dwell on some small mistake you made you will never get past petty mistakes and do something good for the Lord.

It's ok and you are a nice lady most of the time.

:D

Atlas

Brother, you simply must not confuse my thoughts on this matter with the damnable, Hell-spawned notion of "limited atonement." I know that Hitler could have been saved. I know that it's God's will for everyone to be saved.

I never said or implied otherwise.

Mama, all flesh is grass. You have your problems, and I have mine. (Mine are worse.) I appreciate your remarks, and think they reflect considerable growth in grace.

God bless you!

I posted this over on the other thread,
for others who may stumble on this in the future...

I have not commented on this thread until now, but I do feel it is important for the child of God to understand these difficult passages about hate, and I want to post something here that may help you understand. This is from my archives, I wrote it long ago. I don't care to argue about it, I taught this in adult Sunday School for many years and I came to this conclusion after study and prayer, and this is what God laid on my heart. If you don't agree with it, that's fine and I have no problem with you and I respect your views. I hope this helps anyone who may be struggling with this issue...

I believe it could be construed that God
has a love/hate relationship with sinners.

Yes, that's right---I think God both loves AND hates sinners.
Sometimes I feel that way about computers, LOL.
Why do I say this? Because that is exactly what I see in the Bible!

I guess the Fred Phelps family would have their own spin on this, but without taking it to those terrible extremes—it could be construed that God has a love/hate relationship with sinners.
The child of God does not have to agree or align himself with fanatics or offensive fringe groups to understand God's Bible. That said, It is important for us to understand this issue, so we can help others understand.

It is important to remember, that POSITIONALLY there is a different standing for the redeemed as opposed to unbelievers. Unbelievers are like a building destined for destruction—they are condemned already due to their unbelief (John 3:18). The unbeliever who is actively rejecting God's love is in a position of sin—he is the ENEMY OF GOD. "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Romans 5:10

It could probably be argued that the unbeliever is not only a sinner—but positionally
HE IS SIN.
We often hear "God hates the sin," well,—there you are.
Look carefully at the KJV text in this verse:
"For he hath MADE HIM TO BE SIN for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Corinthians 5:21

The unbeliever is not only is sinning, he is positionally titled "SINNER,"—he was made that way by Adam's sin.
"For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE SINNERS, so by the obedience of one shall many be MADE RIGHTEOUS." Romans 5:19

Watch this now...
The unbeliever has the opportunity to avoid God's hatred—because of God's love.
I say again—it seems that God has a love/hate relationship with sinners.

The Scripture is clear, look at these two verses:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

"The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that
loveth violence his soul hateth." Psa. 11:5

How can this God of the Hebrews both hate and love at the same time?
Well the verses are pretty clear—God is love (1 John 4:8), but He is also a man of war. (Exodus 15:3)

The same brilliant sunlight which nourishes one plant, can easily destroy another.
The soul that is not clothed in God's righteousness (Jesus)—will feel God's hatred.

When a believer sins, (as we all have done) they are CHASTISED as opposed to being hated. Why? Because of adoption. Despite the humanists claims—the inhabitants of earth are not all the children of God. The believer on the hand, has the spirit of adoption—he is a true child of God.

So in conclusion, I believe the Bible teaches that God both loves AND hates sinners.
God loved every sinner (the world) enough to pay for their sins, there is no greater love on earth. But until they repent, His hatred for those who defy Him and His hatred for their sin is not reduced. (Psalm 5:5; Psalm 11:5 Lev. 20:23; Prov. 6:16-19; Hos. 9:15, Gal. 6:7, Rev. 20:15).

Brother Parrish. That sums it up for me. I agree.

Thank you brother, and I hope it helps others with these difficult concepts,
God bless...

That sums it up for me, too.

I think the word "unrepentant" makes a difference.

God hates unrepentant sinners. They're the ones who'll face His wrath in judgment.

Yes, that sums it up pretty neatly. I never said, or thought, that God hated people in the wilds of Borneo who have never heard the Gospel.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God loved us while we were sinners...plain and simple. :)

Nope. God commendeth His love toward us...Christ died for us.

God's display of His love was the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That verse does not say that God loves sinners. Period. :)

Genesis + Romans
 

G'Day aussiemama.

To answer your question: There is NO such verse as that! It is often mentioned and tossed about---usually by evangelists or preachers who are trying to get folks to "Make a decision or a profession" to believe in Jesus Christ,,,BUT without the need for repentance.... { in other words: It is trying to tell folks that Jesus is their good friend and wants to be your pal/buddy/"mate"... versus the Biblical message which is that: All haved sinned--- But there is a Hope, a Remedy, A Saviour---> Christ Jesus died for sinners. He is NOT "our good buddy in the sky". Wrong views of The Lord often (always!) lead to wrong thinking about sin and salvation, and the need of a Saviour.

Another one that often is heard/said/told is: "God helps them that help themselves." :eek: That is not Bible, but is rather from the writings of one of America's Founding Fathers-- Benjamin Franklin. A smart man in many areas, but not a Theologian.

Another that is used quite often by some Christians is not a Bible verse, but is actually a line from a Campus Crusade Tract: "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life." { Which is almost like the title of a book that the J.W.'s ( The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society) pass out/sell....:rolleyes:}.

The easiest way to check out whether something is actually in The Book is to open up a Concordance and look for one or more words of the sentence/verse that you recall hearing or reading and start looking/comparing.

... :) I did this many moons ago when I went to a Pastor at a Church I had been invited to ( He had preached a sermon about believers having Faith) and I went up to him after the service and told him: "I can't find it right now (using the Index of my Collins Bible) , but I'm sure that [I gave the Ben Franklin quote] is in the Bible". He graciously smiled at me and challenged me to go home and "keep looking for it"... Well, 30 some years later and 2 Concordances and nearly 6 Bibles,,, still haven't found that "verse"---;)

Aussiemama--- I don't know if you are a baby Christian, or a Child/Teen/Adult/Senior in your Christian walk... Not meant to be insulting, I just don't know. Therefore please accept this advice (No charge/No Tip) as I think it will help you understand the "Basic Plan" for all humans... by The Lord God Almighty. If more Christians would read the book from cover to cover, they would see "The Big Picture". Too often people read a "Devotional Verse" for the day... without ever reading the whole context of the chapter, and the section of the Scripture that the one verse came from.

If you want to know what God our Creator says about Sin and sinners, I would urge you to start with Genesis 1:1 , and go to the end of Exodus. Then turn over to the Epistle to the Romans in the New Testament and start with chapter 1 verse 1, and read to the end of Romans.

...I'll give you a hint: Adam and Eve got us in Big Trouble with a Holy, Just, and Righteous God... but that very same God is all-knowing and ... Now you'll have to read the rest to see "The Plan"... Then let us know what you find as you travel Canaan, and the Sinai campgrounds, then over to the big city on the Italian "boot", and think back to the early Christians who were trying to live in a ungodly city. "Take up and Read!" Bye-for-now.

I'm 23 and grew up in Church (all different kinds) and just got saved earlier this year. I am currently reading through the Bible. I don't get anything out of reading just a verse or two really.

Aussiemama, as a young Christian, you have just begun your walk with Christ and you’ll have many questions along life’s journey. Some, I might add, may never be answered. I’ve been a Christian now for nearly 30 years and have a lot of questions that I still do not have answers for. Brother George, (who also participates in this Forum) has been saved for 50 years and he still has questions about certain passages.

Above all else, I want to encourage you to purpose and resolve in your heart to know and love Jesus Christ. Do not “leave” your first love. It is the will of God the Father, that Jesus Christ [God the Son] be first in all things. That He has the preeminence in all things and that all fullness dwells in Him. Whatever you do in the Christian life, little sister, do this one thing—love and know Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:18-19 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

You have asked a difficult question. As you see, there are different answers provided by true fellow believers who love Jesus Christ. You’ll get that your entire Christian life. Although we should seek, and value, the counsel and instruction of others, ultimately, we must understand we are just as capable of understanding God’s word, because we also have the Holy Spirit abiding in us. So I want to encourage you to always remain humble, teachable, and trust God to open your eyes of spiritual understanding through His word.

Regarding your question, our human mind and human reasoning will prevent us from reconciling the “hatred” of God with the “love” of God. This is a doctrine that we must believe and accept because the word of God teaches both aspects of God’s nature. In other words, I encourage you to live the Christian life the same way you entered the Christian life—by grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

As born again believers, we have received the forgiveness of sin and the tender mercies of God, we have been delivered from the condemnation and wrath of God, we were once the enemies of God, but have been reconciled with Him by grace through faith in Christ. Because of these undeserved blessings and gifts of God, it is very difficult for us to believe that the Holy Scriptures clearly teach God hates the workers of iniquity, the wicked, and him that loveth violence. But they do.

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Scripture also clearly teaches us that God loves “sinners” and has a wonderful plan for their life. I actually trusted the Lord Jesus Christ in college in 1979, through the ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. Who taught that God loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. What love and what a plan for my life!

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. What love and what a plan for my life!

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. What love and what a plan for my life!

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. What love and what a plan for my life!

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. What love and what a plan for my life!

So in scripture we see both God’s righteous hate, and God’s righteous love. (Brother Parrish did a good job explaining this.)

Hi every one I am new here and din,t know how to introduce myself but found a subject that has been close to my heart. This phrase God loves the sinner but hates the sinnner in my veiw is unbiblical and came about of a feel good statment that really didn,t say anything. For what is in a sinner but sin (Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;). or Ps 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Note it doesn,t say God is angry with "wickedness" as in the cliche but wicked! every day. I hope this help to bring us back to God rightfull thinking
Regards s.o.e

Welcome. :) If you have not done so, you may want to carefully read all of the comments on this particular thread for the Biblical support of both God's love and hate for a sinner..

What about...

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Welcome to the forum, Soe! (I can't bring myself to call you either "Spirit" or "Elijah," no offense!) I agree with what you wrote, but I'd welcome you even if I didn't. Just jump in with both feet and start posting! I hope that your presence here will be mutually edifying - - - and it's a great place for prayer requests, too!

Not Spirit, not Elijah...how about addressing him as "Of" then? :p

Welcome and enjoy!

Hello Brother. Tell me why you agree with:

Do these verses teach that God loves the sinner?

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Can we conclude that it was God's love that provides reason He would send His only begotten Son to die for a man, who happens to be a sinner? Does God love the sinner based on the written word?

Do these verses teach that God hates the sinner?

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Can we conclude that God's hates the man, who is a worker of iniquity, is wicked, and the one who loves violence? Does God hate the sinner based on the written word?

Praise Him, I once was His enemy, but through Christ, I've been reconciled to God! :)

I believe he was trying to say "Loves the sinner but hates the sin."

Romans 5:8 simply says that, speaking of the saved individuals in the church, God proved His love by giving His Son to die for us. This is along the same lines of John 3:16: past tense, and applying generically to His entire human creation, not specific sinners. I love my family, but there are people I seriously can't stand (not so far as hate, as per 1 Jm. 3:15).

However I am not necessarily opposed to a simultaneous Love/Hate stance; God is God, and He can do whatever the heck He wants to. If that includes loving and hating the same person at the same time, then who am I to question Him?

Hello Vince. You wrote:

He did prove His love. But He proved or demonstrated His love by giving His Son for sinners. God loved me when I was a sinner!

"Of" Is great:cool::p:):rolleyes:;)
Thx

This is stupid

One one side we have the people who are up in arms about:

"Loves the sinner but hates the sin" isn't biblical and preachers only use it to get quick decisions and let people live in sin because God loves the sinner etcetc.

On the other hand we have the people who are saying

"God loved me while I was a sinner, and he loves me now".

The only verses you can find to show God hates sinners are PRE CALVARY. Which is also what Romans 5:8 is.

So you are both right. Let God be sovereign in this issue. He hates the wicked. Yet He loves the wicked at that same time. God is perfect. Can He not do these two things and still not be perfect?

Seeing christians argue over whether God loves or hates sinners (who He died for) is childish.

Furthermore, it is really hurting me to see it (not that I matter, but I am quite weak in the faith, and this topic is not edifying - I know I have the choice to read it or not, but it shouldn't even be brought up).

God loves sinners. He died for them. He didn't suddenly start hating them after Calvary. And I wasn't even born when He died for me, and He still loved me then. Yes, God hates sin. And God hates those that do sin. But you can't just form your own opinions based on some false doctrine someone preached one time. Just because someone was convinced that they could go on in sin doesn't make the whole teaching wrong.

This topic makes me sick.

Luke,



AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Atlas

• THE ANSWERS ON THIS THREAD ARE RELEVANT BECAUSE:

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

• GOD HATES THE SINNER:

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth

• GOD LOVES THE SINNER:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

:confused: Personally, I do not sense any arguing going on. Simply some discussion of Bible verses resulting in different views and answers. If the WORD of GOD above, which answers the opening question of this thread is "stupid," "childish," and makes you "sick," brethren Luke and Atlas, I exhort you to not read it. If, on the other hand, the WORD of GOD is fine, but it's the comments of fallible man that make you sick, I understand. I don't read the "threads" that make me sick. But to me, and perhaps others, this particular subject is not stupid, childish, or sickening. It's your choice, brethren. Very unchristian to pounce, Luke. NOT :cool:

But what you said I am in agreement with. The Bible says God lives sinners and it says He hates sinners. I said let God be sovereign in this issue. It is not out of His power to do both and still be God.

It seems to me that there are two camps arguing, and neither is willing to admit the other is right, when they are both right.

I have no problem with any of the verses you wrote. My only problem is with the two camps - one arguing that God hates sinners, no exceptions, and the other saying that God loves sinners, no exceptions.

The truth is as you said. God hates sinners and God loves sinners.