Musical Instruments in church service
 

Hello All,

I noticed that Primitive or "Hardshell" Baptists are not only hyper-Calvinists, but do not believe musical instruments belong as part of New Testament worship. They say that the only method of prasing and worshipping the Lord musically is singing, as it says in Eph 5:19. Isn't this what Church of Christ also believe about instruments? They say that the Old Testament use of musical instruments are for the OT only, and you are "adding" to NT worship services something that doesn't belong by using musical instruments. They actually call pianos, and stringed instruments "noise boxes", and they point to people like Spurgeon and others during and before his time and what they say about organs, pianos etc. I play a musical instrument in my church during offering. These guys make it seem like a sin to have instruments as part of the service. What is your take? Thanks

2Sa 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.
1Ch 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren [to be] the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.
2Ch 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers [were] as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up [their] voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, [saying], For [he is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever: that [then] the house was filled with a cloud, [even] the house of the LORD;
2Ch 7:6 And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of musick of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy [endureth] for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.
2Ch 23:13 And she looked, and, behold, the king stood at his pillar at the entering in, and the princes and the trumpets by the king: and all the people of the land rejoiced, and sounded with trumpets, also the singers with instruments of musick, and such as taught to sing praise. Then Athaliah rent her clothes, and said, Treason, Treason.
Am 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol, [and] invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David; this last verse shows a perversion of worship in Israel.

now in the NT we only read of they sang a hynm, speaking of Jesus and the apostles. or as it was pointed out singing melody in your hearts, but that would be stretching it seeing this singing is in the heart not out loud.

the use of musical instruments would be at best historical tradition in prasing the Lord as the Pslamist used.

it would be presonal preference if people want to or don't want to use instruments.

as long as it is done skillfuly and without drawing attention to the members of the orchestra or worship band. it would be accepted. even Paul said, How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm,....

so singing was part of the NT church Psalms were sung to worship, glorify and thank God. if someone had an instrument they may have played for them.

We are admonished not to argue over doubtful things. this would be one of them. and if someone causes division with it mark them and keep not company with them.

I think personally when it becomes "electrified" & beat driven in Church is when it becomes dangerous ground. In My backslidden days I produced beat driven, bass driven music (Trance) and the spirit that this kind of Beat and undertone raises is certainly not HOLY its verging on Shamanistic, while the words may be Christ orientated and centered spiritually the Beat almost certainly isn't. Melodic Instrumentation is my opinion is fine as long as the Melody dosent cross over to the point when it creates more emotion than devotion. The emotional conviction is the Job of the Holy Spirit not the Music.

"Can two walk together, except they be AGREED?" Amos 3:3

remember in Ezekiel Satan is portrayed as an Instrument of Music

28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Believe me in this world he uses Music to enslave I personally know this because I was a slave to it until the Grace of our LORD and Saviour set me free.

Posted In the Name of The Almighty the LORD Jesus Christ

Yeah, I think the instruments in worship is a Romans 14 issue. Personally I come from a background that never sang hymns (I think you baptists call us the 7-11 crowd), but since I've been in fellowship with very conservative Mennonite I've learned to appreciate traditional hymns. Hymns are amazing, but it is taking time for me to love them like I do the worship I grew up with. I also listen to a lot of dub reggae (reggae without words for the most part) as well as gospel reggae, and I love to just sing out random words (most of the time scripture) that fit the melody. Truth be told, it is so amazing to worship without singing from a hymn or reading from a projector. The Word just comes out and I find all those Scriptures I've been learning just flow so nicely as I sing and dance to the melody. God is so good, and truly He is worthy of all our praise.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

be careful I listened to reggai as an unsaved person the Marijauna music of the Jamaican drug cartels.

it has a spirit about it that even masking it in Christian lyrics cannot hide what effects it has on ones own spirit. this is the issue of the whole rock culture in Christian worship. that is why I call most of the so called worship concert music put out by Hillsong, Maranatha and others (Don Moen etc) as Christian ENTERTAINMENT not worship.

I use both hymns and modern songs for worship. but the musical instruments are accoustic and low in volume as not to affect the body with endorphenes and or adreneline. and our song portionof worship is kept to no more than 45 minutes on the average it is 30min. and 45 miniutes to an hour in Bibe Study.

I also would like to point out that the Reggai culture uses a Bible as its foundation that Marajauna use is biblical for spritual development. their version of the Bible has the listing of LORD IN the OT translated JAH. this is the term they use in JAH IREI Man! Reggai is more than just music it is par of the cultural religion of the Jamaicans. Jesus did not redeem cultures just men. so just listening to it is to promote something that is of Satan.

sorry to burst your Bubble Stephanos. but the Jamaican Reggai crowd never learned to rightly divide either.

*sigh* Man I so wish you would get over your own understanding. The fruit always reveals the root Chette. You cannot judge all reggae music based on what those with bad fruit have done.

"Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him." Psalms 68:4 King James Bible

Stephen

Man, you need to judge things rightly. the root of reggai is demonic and just becuse you don't know the history of that vodoo psedu-christian cross blend of religions known as Reggai practiced in the Ehiopian Zion Coptic Church. Puts you in the same class as some chariasmatics when it comes to music and dance.

you cannot separate it Reggai from it's roots. Demonic roots for the music. You just want to justify your wanting to listen to reggai. it ok go for it. But all things may be lawful but not all things are expedient.

for those like me who know its back ground and the demonic actiivite that musical style promotes. you would be a offence to weak and immature Christians. Woe to him through whom offences come.

sing all you want unto the Lord, make a joyful noise, shout unto the Lord. but do so without representing the ememy. for Satan doesn't care if you use all the modern reggai beats to worship God. He was the chief worship leader for the angels. surely any style of music is ok if the cheif Angel behind it uses it. all the worship in the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Chruch (reggai religion) uses reggai misic to worship JAH. so go ahead worship them like the infedels do. go for it dude.

but beware of your rewards and crowns that may be forfitted or lost because you liked something that the Devil made available to worship the Lord. many Charismatics are in the same boat.

What should it matter to you your already going against Gods word to rightly divide it so what more can you do to be outside the perfect will of God in your life.

your revealing more of yourself to us than you think.

I judge rigthly and I have the Holy Ghost to hlep me do so. I judge spiritual things by spiritual. not by my feeling or desires for that would be judging things by the flesh. there is a right way to worship and following the ways of a bunch of Devil possessed drug addicts in their style of worship its pure NUTS!

are you done yet?

Proverbs 28:23 He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

seems like someone can't handle a little rebuke about reggai music and its devilish roots.

My understanding comes from knowing the word of God and following that word even to my own hurt. which means I would deny myself personal pleasure and interests in order to please God in my Life. and not using types of music for worship would fall under that.

Time to grow now that you know the truth about reggai. or will you continue to rebel?

Or Better yet!

why not start using rap and hip hop to worship the Lord. I know a man here who has built a whole ministry on it. When I shared with him his lead dancers were not even saved and still using drugs he admitted it. he didn't care. these hip hop supposed ex gang memebers are bringing him tons of money in support from Europe and the States. getting them saved was not in his plan only reaping the harvest of blessings (money).

how about using a little Bump and Grind Rythym and Blues to worship the Lord. or Roudy Red neck country like ol Charley Daniels used to sing. How about using hymns like "A mighty fortress is our God" to march to war like the Kaizars did in WWI.

I mean we can take it to the extremes for you if you want and show you the history to all roots of music. God didn't seem to care to much for those who were using all sorts of music to worship him because their hearts weren't right with him nor were they in His will to begin with. Look in this verse and you judge.

Amos 6:1-6 Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came! Pass ye unto Calneh, and see; and from thence go ye to Hamath the great: then go down to Gath of the Philistines: be they better than these kingdoms? or their border greater than your border? Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near; That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat the lambs out of the flock, and the calves out of the midst of the stall; That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David; That drink wine in bowls, and anoint themselves with the chief ointments: but they are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph.

go ahead invent to yourselves ways to worship but know that the Lord is not with all your ways because you are not in all His. Just as Israel was. this age will end in a great Apostasy and not to long from now we will see it end.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Roman 8:28

All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 1 Corinthians 6:12

To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 1 Corinthians 9:22

A little balance here

:)

Bro. Chette, I never thought you've got some "standards" in music,too!

I was raised "conservative", and questioned it; but I realized I can't get too "contemporary" either. So I decided that while "all things are lawful", not "all things are expedient". Now, I'm conservative by choice, which I deem more safe than going all the way, any way.

Thank you Scott. I just get a bit frustrated by caustic types like Chette that presume to know things when they don't. He actually should do a deeper study of reggae music and he'd find that reggae comes from ska, which has nothing to do with Satan or the rastas. There really is so much I would like to share with Chette, but I know that it isn't the wise course of action. He will continue to drive people away with his antagonistic attitude about things (including myself), while others (I hope and pray, myself) will work in humility, and love, teaching people to put their faith in the redemptive work of Christ Jesus, and not on the traditions/doctrines of men. I have no qualms with the fact Chette thinks it is ok ONLY to listen to the music he likes, but I have issues when he judges me because I like to worship God in a different way. Personally, I'll let Jehovah God be the judge of my life, and will put no faith in the gospel according to Chette.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

That's cool there a lot that all of us don't know, that is why people come off righteous in there own conceits, and all of us have done it, I am sure the Chete777 does not mean to be that antagonistic, but that is why we call it a forum.

Scott, Stephanos and Biblestudent here is some more info

Actually Ska is a more recent name given a to a form of Caribbean and Calypso styled street music that Modern Reggae gets it's sounds. I know all that and just because i don't post it doesn't mean I am ignorant. Now lets learn the background to all Caribbean and Calypso music it was first used in Voodoo rituals for its melodic beat and hypnotic rythym and popularized by Clement Dodd, Duke Reid and others. After WWII it became popular becuase so many Amreicans were exposed to it while posted in Jamaica.

the musical roots of Reggae go back to the mid 1800's when is was not yet even known as SKA. during the 60's it came out of it's demonic closet as entertainment and developed further into what you know as Reggae in the 70's. but musical history does not change it's demonic roots.

VOODOO witch doctors would use what later would be called Ska music during their rituals (it was used in th Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church since it's original founding in the late 1800's) when they would raise a Zombie (a person usually before hand would be dosed with a nerve conditioning drug made from plants that puts them into a near death coma. Docotrs will often declare the person dead)then the night of the Burial the witch doctor would dig up the body and assemble all sort of people to an area in the churches graveyard between midnitght and 3AM.

they would play the hypnotic music, chant and dance. then the witch doctor would revive the person by giving them an antidote to the chemicals used and the person would wake up. the doctor will tell them they had died and that the witch had raised them so they now belong to the witch if they want to remain alive. (this knowledge of the use of certain plants to put a person in a coma like state came from Africa)

Jamica's original inhabitants died off due to the diseases brought in by the Spanish, and escaped slaves from America who were trying to get back to Africa. they brought their witchcraft and Roman Catholisim with them and blended it and created their own religion known as voodoo and thier official church is the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church.

Many watch enjoyed the music and rituals that were sometimes very elaborate they would then fear the witch doctor and pay money to keep themselves free from the evil powers. Marajauna was used as incence in the 1800's (and even today) in the church services the pot smoke filled area would cause the peopel attending to became high and have mystical and spiritual revelation. then during Church services at the Ethiopina Zion Coptic Church they would be asked to share what JAH had revealed.

Now knowing all that I have shared would you use Pagan Roman music that was used to worship Jupiter or Pagan Greek Muscic that was used to worship Zues, or Pagan Babylonian music that was used to worship Marduke to worship Jesus Christ? why would you want to use Pagan Jamaican Music that was used to worship JAH and used in devilish rituals to worship Jesus Christ?

the whole thing about reggae is just that it comes from a perverse religion of Demonic possessed people. and Like I said before Jesus Did not die to redeem cultures, music or anyother thing. he died only for man. Not for what man enjoys.

look at this verse the Lord tells the Israelites.

Leviticus 18:2-4 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God. After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God. also in Lev 22:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
similarly we are not to worship the Lord in the way of the world from which we were saved from. to worship with reggae, Rap, and Rock and Roll would go against what the Lord would like for us.

I am not trying to be Antagonistic or self righteous. but Worship is one thing and Entertainment is another. in Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: I just gave a little reproof that all.

And Stephanos Chette's Gospel is the same as Paul's Gospel faith in the finished work of Christ's cross.

The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Churches of America all started with the one church in Jamaica.

Here is a little more modern look at the ethiopian Zion Coptic Church Today. what I had learned about them in the 70's has changed alot since then and this founder of the american churches has elaborated many new ideas since the 70's. but you will see the roots never the less. You will notice that Jamaica and Rastafari are all part of the roots to the Reggae music. check out more just enter Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church into any search engine online and see that drug use in promoted in the ranks.

HISTORY OF THE ETHIOPIAN ZION COPTIC CHURCH
By Walter Wells, Spiritual Leader, Servant of Goud
"When the strong oppress the weak, and men sell, or condone the selling of, their brother's liberty, to achieve fading gold SLAVERY, OPPRESSION, HATRED and CRIME, will be the order of the day. Man must examine his conscience to see if what he pours out, is what he would readily receive" -- The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church.
It has been said by modern historians, that the scarcity of written records has enshrouded the history of Africa in mystery and ignorance: this is not so. The first recorded history is man, and so history could not be that written piece of paper, but the experience of an individual or people written on the tablets of man's heart. The history therefore of any Nation belongs only to its people, and so the history of we Ethiopians has been told from generation to generation even until this day.
It is for this reason that, although the forces of evil conspire against us, we of the Coptic Faith know that the leopard cannot change its spots, neither can we alter the commandments and precepts handed down by our fathers; from generation to generation, as a guiding light to lighten all Nations, even the Gentiles, and for the glorification of his people Israel.
THE COPTIC DEITY.
The Deity of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church may be unknown to the billions of Gentiles scattered over the earth, with the exception of the faithful few who are fighting bravely to guide their Nation's life. However it is not new to the millions of blackman scattered over the earth like sand on the sea shore, even those in America and elsewhere. It is an inward spirit that once guided Israel along the troubled waters of the past; which he lost because of his disobedience to his teacher and creator, and received the punishment of slavery as a curse; under seven different world powers starting with Egypt, to the British American world power of today.
Punishment by slavery, because blackman had in ages before, and even today, stooped as a scum upon the earth, inferior to the entire race of human beings, and has sold his brother into slavery to be used and tormented by his enemies as a mockery upon our creative heritage that even today, had not their been a righteous branch among us, we also would be like Sodom and Gommorrah. This dastardly act was contrary to Goud's declaration of individual freedom for every man on earth. Slavery among Israel came about because we failed to respect each other and in time we became covetous and rebellious against each other. There was no brotherly louv or trust among brethren of the different tribes and so the strong preyed upon the weak, and sold his own brother into slavery for the sake of money (caesar), which Europeans taught us was the savior from our miseries. Before this, when we walked in obedience to Goud, we were taught to keep the commandments and walk in christian principles. Charity, justice, equality, manliness and respect were also taught.
That spirit of unity, that existed in Israel before they
transgressed and were placed into captivity, is still burning and will one day ignite into an eternal flame of desire; the desire to free themselves once and for all from the political slavery brought upon them through their own foolish imaginations, which caused them to be disobedient to Goud. The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church is now in the process of igniting this flame, and very soon we will see billions of blackman worldwide and the strangers within their gates uniting and giving acclaim to RASTAFARI, KING, CREATOR; who with blessings has returned to reign, reign over HIS PEOPLE; - ISRAEL.
HISTORY OF A PEOPLE.
From Egypt to Rome.
The history of Israel's suffering under slavery during the time of the first six world powers, Egypt, Assyria, Great Babylon, Meda-Persia, Greece and Rome, is well recorded in the Holy Bible, the guidebook of every Nation to resurrect the spirit of moral consciousness, for a moral and spiritual rearmament - man in relationship with his Creator.
What is unknown to the millions who have been lost in vanity fair, including the millions of blackman around the world, whose heritage and dynasty the Coptic Church now declare, is THE HISTORY OF THE BLACKMAN TODAY, FROM THE PERIOD OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. Let us now continue the history of their sufferings, from the latter part of the Roman Empire until today, the day upon which you read this epistle.
From Rome to the British American world power.
During the latter days of the Roman Empire, the church of Rome, or the Catholic Church as we know it today, was the only recognized church worldwide. It was not until the period of revolution both in England and on the continent, that the church of England, or Anglican church, was formed, then the Quakers, etc. The Pope of Rome, who was the head of the church, was regarded as the most powerful man in the earth, and received obeisance from kings, princes, cardinals, bishops, abbots and priests.
There were many Nations which were oppressed by the Roman Empire such as Britain, Spain, Portugal and France. All the great trades were carried out by the merchants of Venice. As a result, other Nations made their own routes of trade by sailing along the coasts of Africa. The first to make contact with the natives were the Portuguese during the sixteenth century. They bought blackman as slaves from the Arabs who had earlier bought them from our own black brothers who had grown to be covetous and rebellious to Goud, as shown earlier in this article. (See Coptic Deity, 2)
Blackman Deceived.
In the sixteenth century when the Portuguese and Spanish adventurers and oppressors started commerce on the continent of Africa, America and the Far East, they were accompanied by the Roman Catholic Church, who under the disguise of missionary priests were used as the agents of pagan religion to spread propaganda and subvert the Goud given Culture and beliefs of the people who they found living in the lands wherein they traded and settled. Because we warred among each other, we were classified as barbarians, wild animals who needed to be civilised.
Their first deception would be to use their gifts of enchantments to capture the moral spirit of the people. When they had won the hospitality of the people, they would indoctrinate them with their pagan Roman religion of a sky god called Geysus, hoping they could persuade the natives to give their praise and anthem to their Pope in Rome. This they did under the pretense of civilisation.
So flourishing and financially successful was the selling of blackman into slavery, that wars broke out among the traders for supremacy and full control of the trade. Britain finally won supremacy in the eighteenth century.
PUNISHMENT UNDER THE LAST PLAGUE.
The seventh and last plague; British/American world power.
The history of every country today gives a clear picture of the early stages of slavery under the British American world power. History shows that of over twenty to twenty-four million Blackman enslaved from Africa only fifteen to twenty million survived the horrors meted out to them during their trips to the Americas. The Coptic Church today holds the British Imperial government responsible for the blood of over four to nine million Black Israel massacred under a bandulu government during the period of the slave trade.
Our suffering, even to the period of emancipation in 1838, is well known and would not be wise to deal with in detail. Let me bring you closer, however, to the present situation, as it affects us today; and so I start with the period 1765. This was the period Brother Editor, when you the suffering people of America, pressured by your colonial masters to the point of extinction, placed your shoulders to the wheel in a united effort, to once and for all remove the shackles of British supremacy and corrupt oppressive administration on your colonies.
You stood up not because you were British subjects on British soil, yet because you had a moral conscience in the equality and rights of every man to live upon the earth as a free man; without enslavement from his brother. We as a people admired your courage for the steps you took in those times. However, one-hundred years after, when we, who were considered by your colonial masters as barbarians of an inferior race, could no longer bear the pressures of oppression and human destruction laid upon us, and having had our long years of grievances fall upon deaf ears, our race, under the able leadership of Paul Bogle, National Hero and Servant of Goud, rose to the challenge. Yet because we were divided among ourselves, we failed and Bogle was executed by his oppressors.
As the years rolled on, the British world power by itself became weakened, as many of her colonies gained independence. As a result, she had to share her power with her younger sister America. The centre of power was removed from Britain and vested in a mixed worldwide international political organisation, the League of Nations, now called the United Nations, a cage of hateful and unclean, corrupt political birds.
PUNISHMENT UNDER UNITED NATIONS WORLD POLITICS.
Rise of a Prophet.
Fifty years after the execution of Bogle, and around the same time, when the British Empire fell and they conspired in setting up the United Nations, Goud rose up the Prophet Marcus Garvey in Jamaica, the headquarters of the slave trade in the West Indies, the now head of attraction and Biblical lisle of Patmos, where the head of civilisation is. His message was the same as that of Bogle, only that as a son he was wiser and did not believe in the use of guns and bayonets. His mission was as a forerunner to Louv Williams, a faithful disciple of Marcus and upon whose shoulder the mantle of leadership fell, so that we, both Jews and Gentiles, can partake of this great spiritual resurrection. Marcus had started the preparation for the spiritual resurrection of the world at large. However, because of the animosity and division between black and white, and the scar of slavery and demolition of his people, he had to set about to rebuild the moral conscience of black man, who is the most precious gem, the chosen race of Goud.
It is the same United Nations of today who fought against the Deity of Marcus and persecuted him, even as the American government, an agent of the United Nations, is today persecuting the Coptic Church. Every nation fights against Herb, the Sacrifice of the Black Goud. They claim they fight against it because it is a United Nations agreement. Let the world know that this United Nations is only a worldwide political conspiracy of 1914 when the British world power failed; and when blackman should have been redeemed to his home land, they conspired and set up Politics and thus divided the black suffering masses under the bogus agency called the United Nations, who in its effort to keep the people divided, and thus weak, made their Sacrament to their Goud, the Herb, illegal by their illegal councils.
During the period of Marcus Garvey, a new spirit of unity had awakened in the people, both in Jamaica and America, as it is today through the teachings of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church. As a result, the political leaders of the time conspired against him and imprisoned him, at the same time spreading propaganda that he was dead. By so doing they were able to kill the fire kindled in the hearts of the people, by this great moral teacher.
Early days of Tribulation.
After the imprisonment of the Prophet Marcus; the lot of the black masses worldwide became unbearable, as they were brutally manipulated by the society of the time. So severely oppressed were they by their colonial masters, that even when in 1937 to 1938, when Bustamante declared himself as an advocate of the people, he was received and looked upon as the Moses who would deliver and return them to the Promised Land, wherein dwells Louv, Peace, Happiness and Prosperity. The promise of deliverance and final peace of mind was promised through our forefather Abraham, and this promise still lives in the hearts of millions worldwide today.
When Bustamante came to Jamaica in the 1930's, he was unknown to the masses. He later started business as a money lender among the poor masses and, by doing so, was able to win the confidence of the people. With the assistance of St. William Grant, one of Garvey's chief lieutenants, he was able to capture the hearts of the people, who thought and looked upon him as the Moses who would deliver them from their perils. However, Bustamante was not a national figure, and so he could not represent the welfare of a national people. His help to the masses was only an opportunity to seek power and riches for himself and to further divide the race against itself.
As the prophecy said, "Smite the Shepherd and the sheep will be scattered." The masses who were left without any moral leader to cater for their welfare, adhered to the leadership of Bustamante. Because he was not ordained as a priest or leader of Goud's people, Bustamante failed to resurrect the moral and ethical principles of the people and to guide them to a land of peace and safety as promised to our forefather Abraham, that Patriarch of old. Instead, he could only organise the people into divided political forces, thus weakening their strength for liberating themselves for instead of the masses on the one hand and the colonial masters on the other, the people were now divided among themselves under the disguise of POLITICS. Trade unions were set up to control the people's labour; and the same oppressors were the ones who negotiated the wages of the suffering people, being ably supported by these political weaklings called Trade unions.
Soon after, the black masses lost the spirit of a moral awakening, kindled in their hearts by that great moral teacher, Marcus Messiah Garvey. Many of his ardent followers like St. William Grant were captured by these political forces, who with the help of the various pagan religious groups, returned to the pagan religious practice of worshipping an imaginary sky god.
THE DAWN OF A NEW MILLENNIUM.
"LOUV" the first fruit of them that slept.
Since the advent of politics upon the black masses in Jamaica, we succumbed to the dark shadows that loomed around us; and many slept in darkness, having no hope of attaining liberty except on the wheels of the political system which was instituted by the "Buckie Massa's" of the time. Yet, while many slept and became dormant in their spirit, there was one disciple of Marcus who was fervent in the spirit of Wisdom, Knowledge and Understanding, who took the mantle of Faith, Hope and Charity, to lighten the pathway of us, the masses, in this present generation, so that we could not in this time be deceived, as in the time of our fathers.
I speak of Louv Williams, the first fruit of us who are in darkness within this dispensation. Louv Williams' charge was for the spiritual awakening of his people from the bonds of moral slavery, serfs and peons, and the inferiority complex which we of the black masses had adopted as our final lot in today's world.
Louv resurrected our moral values and purpose in life, placed us on the right path to individual salvation, as was our custom and culture before we were placed under the awful curse of slavery. The final advent started in the late 1930's when politics was introduced upon the poor masses of Jamaica. Louv Williams, who would not bow to political forces, first started his declaration of Rastafari's Holy Trinity (The Man, The Herb and The Word), the true Deity of Marcus, at Mountain View, Southeastern St. Andrew, Jamaica( home of the first Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church). During this period, there were brethren like Count Ossie, Jah Lloyd and Bongo Blackheart (now of the natty dread faith) among many others attending school at Jerusalem schoolroom, under the distinguished tutorship of Louv Williams.
Because many who came to the knowledge were disobedient and contrary to sound doctrine, they later left the faith and were captured by the princes of the air. They adopted a false culture as taught by Hilton and others who were captivated by the religious political forces of 1938. This false doctrine of Rastafari rose up in the 1950's with its roots in the western section of the corporate area of Kingston, Jamaica, and was formulated by the unprincipled ones in Louv Williams' Camp, who would not live up to the Divine principles of the Holy Bible as taught, and were therefore not allowed to partake in the Sacraments, as they were disorderly. These, not spiritual minded, soon withered away when tribulations started, and so went and invented their own version of Rastafari, touching only their geneology, yet not the Divinity of PERSONAL ACCEPTANCE through the SON.
During the early days of Louv's declaration at Mountain View, we of the masses were unable to own any land of consequent value. As a result, most of our Camp sites were on captured government lands. We were in those times called squatters by our religious and political oppressors and society as a whole. TODAY THE SQUATTERS ARE STILL HERE WAITING ON THEIR JUSTICE. In the early part of 1960, after many attacks upon brethren by a wicked covetous and corrupted Poor Lice (police) force, the Camp was removed to August Town in the hills of St. Andrew, Jamaica. It was first sited on University of the West Indies lands now subdivided into the land settlement called Kintyre. The Camp was sited at Wilpit, across the Hope river, on a portion of land legally owned by one Mammy Louv, but captured and occupied for a long time by a Coptic brother named Son Latuce. This brother later left the Faith, joined the security guard, and was stabbed to death.
During our stay at Wilpit, we were subjected to various political harassment, and even one present day Jamaican Minister of government, Keble-you-Feeble-you-Dunn, who was M.P. for the political constituency where the Camp was located, fought against us, saying the Camp should be removed seven miles from the university, as they could not take the Kuminas that we played. The Camp was then moved to Hall's Delight, further in the hills, on lands owned by a brother named Massa Bouy Brooks. Upon this spot mighty works were performed, the history of which will be recorded for future volumes. It is, however, worthy to note at this stage that during the era of Marcus, and the early advent of Louv, we as black brethren did not know that the white man also would be saved in Goud's eternal kingdom. This feeling came about because of their terrible brutalising of the race and the conflict caused by the RAPE OF ETHIOPIA by these WHITE EUROPEANS.
However, before he transfigured, Brother Louv prophesied the unification of black and white under one Holy Trinity. We witnessed the fulfillment of this prophecy when, in the latter part of the 1960's, we saw the first white man set foot in Camp, and, being individually convinced of the TRUTH of the doctrine, accepted Christ as his Saviour, confessing his SINS, and partaking in the daily worship, equally with the black brethren. Louv also prophesied that we would witness the resurrection of the Eternal Spirit on the third Day, meaning the third and eternal leadership in this final dispensation of time of the Church worldwide, which is today's period (THESE ARE THE GENERATION OF US THAT SEEK THY FACE O JESUS Selah). In 1969, Brother Louv transfigured and ascended to his Brethren.
Coming of the Son: A short work in Righteousness.
History records that, like in the era of Marcus, many brethren who were weak in the Faith, became dis-illusioned on his departure, and so were swallowed up by the various political elements of the world. So it was also in the period after the transfiguration and ascension of Louv. Many brethren who were weak in the Faith, and many who did not lay his great spiritual teachings to heart, were early led into captivity, and many forgot the principles and precepts for which they once stood.
However, there were a few who still kept the zeal burning, and chief among them was one filled with the spirit of Grace and Truth, Humble Mantle of Louv in 1969 gathered together Louv's brethren, who were scattered abroad. It was Brother Ivy who fully opened the doors of Salvation to the white inhabitants of the world within this dispensation, and taught black and white to unite together for one common cause (not for the liberation of the race only, yet), worldwide liberation from SIN and a return to the spirit of oneness in Jes-us our Lord and King Eternal, knowing that there is only one Goud for all races. During his period of leadership, he prophesied the removal of the Church to the western section of the island. His work was a short work in Righteousness, to unite mankind in one common cause. He transfigured and ascended to his brethren in 1970.
FINAL DAYS OF TRIBULATION.
Brother "KEEP" - The shepherd of Brethren.
Those he mark for his own he keepeth them. In 1970, Elder "Keeper of the Flock" Gordon took over the Mantle of leadership, thus, fulfilling the prophecy of Brother Louv of his resurrected Spirit in the third and eternal leadership of the Church worldwide as we now see it today. It was during his early period of divine leadership that the Camp was removed from Hall's Delight in St. Andrew, Jamaica, to the Crown Land, Trelawny, in the western section of the island, thus, fulfilling another prophecy as foretold by Brother Ivy earlier. From this new site many received Salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, and so the Church grew from strength to strength, increasing in numbers daily.
Within this period we were able to plan constructively the proper course on which to sail. We were able to increase our agricultural production on a better planned basis, chiefly because we were on our own lands. Cattle rearing was done extensively, as also poultry, etc. Even upon our own lands we were subjected to political harassment; and one government minister even remarked that because we were teaching the people to be independent, he could not get anyone to work on his banana plantation. During this period, we had our fields destroyed by government army helicopters which landed in our fields, destroying our crops and our house tops. We were falsely locked up, then released without being charged. Our legal properties were seized, and some stolen, under the disguise of law. Our divine services were broken up at random.
The area, however, was mountainous, and very soon there was not enough pastureland for our cattle, and so, after settling in various parishes, such as St. Elizabeth, Manchester and Kingston, we finally settled at Coptic Heights, St. Thomas, once more in the East, for the final battle with modern Pharaoh. With more land space, we were able to expand our resources and make sounder planning. We were able to establish a fully accredited farming institution: - The Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church Farms Eternal Limited, compromising over one thousand acres of land fully cultivated and pastured. On this farm we cultivate, vegetables, ground provisions, fruits, peanuts, escallion, thyme, onions, peas, melons, pumpkins, okras, bananas, sugar cane. There is also over one thousand head of beef and dairy cattle, horses, donkeys, goats, sheep, mules and over two thousand head of poultry. A native lumber industry is also operated by cutting wood from the trees on the farm and sometimes buying from outside supplies. Coal is burned for the trade, and a stone quarry is operated. We were also able to establish a trucking department which, along with the produce of the farm, assists the brethren in their everyday needs. Today, as we look back at our past journey, and of a vast experiment of six thousand years, which are now coming to a close, the achievement that we have made, we now know that these could not be achieved by black alone, or white alone, yet by a united people, fulfilling the Mysteries of Goud in those who fear him and keep his commandments.
COPTIC FOR OUR LIBERATION.
Coptic is the Bible understanding in this present generation. The entire world today is burdened with SIN, from which, up to now, they have refused to be liberated.
(1) Religion has failed to inspire the generation of today, because their doctrine of a sky god is bogus and without foundation, so that even the ministers of pagan religion are within themselves doubtful of its authenticity.
(2) Commerce has failed, because, by their works, the inhabitants can see plainly that they are corrupt in their dealings and selfish in their gains. This institution serves only to disorganise the people and to uphold the class barrier placed upon us by our slave masters, and so in this time we see the falling apart of Caesar's kingdom and the coming of Goud's divine reign on earth.
(3) Politics, which is the third unclean spirit poured out upon the people, has now failed in its bid to inspire the people and lead them to a land of peace and safety. Our political leaders are morally corrupted. They are treacherous to each other, much more the poor people. They are the tools of commerce, to oppress the people so that they will be poorer and divided.
Coptic is the only LIGHT and SOLUTION in these times of troubled waters. The political leaders have left the people at the unknown crossroad; and all these great boasters who were acclaimed as shepherds of the people have now been found to be hirelings indeed.
COPTIC THE SHEPHERD BRETHREN.
"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. Yet he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth; and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd and I know my sheep and I am known of them. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my Life for the Sheep.
And other Sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they will hear my voice; and there will be one fold, and one shepherd."
On the foundation of this Deity, handed down to us from our Father of old, the great Patriarch Abraham, and with the blessings he received from the great High Priest Melchizedek when they met in the plain of Mamre, the promise being from generation to generation, the Coptic Church, the advocate of this great spiritual Deity in these present times, is duty bound to enlighten those who are willing to open their moral equilibrium to the TRUTH as it affects them in these times.

Now if you read that you would be ignorant to say that Reggai Music which in the 70's promoted Rastafari does not promote Rastafari or the Devil. Carrabean, Calypso or Reggai music is the spiritual outlet of all you read above.

Read some more about the Ethiopian Coptic cult drug use and the Bible

www.marijuanalibrary.org/mj-bible.html

Also Dreadlocks which go back over a century was the required hais style of a Prophet of the coptic voodoo church often these prophets were witch doctors.

drug use is known as sorceries in the bible and their music of choice today is REGGAE

Thanks a lot for the info, Brother Chette!

Chette, thank for your meek response, there are thinks that many of us do not understand or only partly see is probably a better quote. But here are a few of my thoughts on the subject.

Music certainly can be worldly and not Godly. However does music have to be worship only?

Music of the populace

Worship music and the populace music is not the same thing. All music affect the body with endorphins and or adrenaline. Volume and beat can infect it but music touches the soul.

Are people saved that receive the Christ of the perverted versions gospels, NIV, NAS, etc….? Or do people only get saved through the King James Bible’s Jesus Christ gospel?


As a Christian, I hear the judgments come from other Christian about music and what is acceptable and what is not. Many books have been written on the subject. You have condemnations coming and going in many different directions.
You really just now hear the regurgitated condemnations that have been propagated by the main stream CINO (Christian in name only) media.

The devil cannot create, he only counterfeits. The devil does not have heart of worship toward God. Men do because God has written his word in there hearts and all creation declare the glory of God even to the unsaved.

The peoples of nations have been repressed by devil with his cohorts, much of the music of the populace is in response to that and a plead to God that they do not know.

Christian Rock and secular; I have even heard that Amazing Grace was criticized as to flashy.
Now I know that music like Marylyn Madsen and many others are demonically propagated. But who are the designer of these designed music to control the minds of the masses? Is it the people themselves? What is the bewitching, the divinations, and sorceries that there music is used for? How does it work?

First before we get high-minded and say that the music in the christian churches is accepted by God. Real Christian worship and music is a sweet incense to God. Many scriptures that deal with the music and worship that God rejected is the music and worship of his own people. The reason really focus on the heart of the of people.
There is the new wave of christian pop, the long standing of christian rock, and christian what ever music; CINO (Christian in name only). We probably all have been in worship services that have gone through the motions of singing praise and worship songs that was programmed and not delivered in spirit and truth. The requirement of worship is to be in truth and spirit. CINO music can be subjective depending on the individual and where there heart is. Many songs have melodies and words that are conducive to the parameters of acceptable music that the CINO crowd and even real Christians.
When music get out the parameters of the perceived acceptable model, there now is condemnation, what spirit is that?

The only music I have seen the word condemn is false worship from his own people.

You are not wise to condemn the music of a lost or misguided people, but wise to see there cry in it and touch the matter of the issue they face, and lead them to there deliver Jesus Christ the Son of God.

I was listening to a 60 minute program (I believe that was it) it was on Gospel singer (Black Gospel) at the end of the program and during the closing question they ask whom they thought was the greatest gospel song writer, whom do you think they said? We probably never seen this one coming, Bob Dylan.

Maybe I can intervene and shed some light on the topic with the Grace of our LORD Jesus Christ.
When I was not right with God I used to DJ and produce Music. To be precise I created dance / trance / electro. Now, in the process of creating I had one thing in mind, the beat and the bass, this was to specifically hold the tune or song up, to give it its "drive" the melody etc always fell into place after the beat and rhythm was laid down. Why the beat was so important is this, it was the factor in the music that reached out to listeners "physically", at a club the bass and kickdrum could actually be felt physically, and cause an "altered" state of consciousness, even without narcotics. The melody and riffs complimented the beats and base from the physical side of the music to the spiritual, the sweeping melody and strings created an emotion in the listener when heard repetitively that again elevated them without narcotics into a somewhat daydream or trance like state. Now tie this together with drugs, soft or hard and the effect is magnified vastly.
This culture is not a generation X thing, it is not a recent thing, this dates back centuries. It is a shamanic culture, mass hysteria through "driven" beats.
Shaman used an incessant drum beat and melody along with psychotropics to direct them into their trances and keep them there so they could communicate with the "spirits", most certainly not any spirit of God, but the spirit of devils.
After I got Myself right with The LORD Jesus Christ I left that world, that life behind, but I started to look for alternative "christian" music to listen to, I listened to some so called christian rock from Red, Tree63,skillet etc, and came to the swift conclusion it was absolutely no different to the WORLD and the beat that the devil uses to control. I moved on to Hillsong and while some of their music is acoustic, most sounds again from a beat and music point of view, like the worlds beat. Strangely I felt that Hillsongs music left me emotionally thirsty, like I had to listen to more and soon to feel close to God and that when I didn't listen to it, I wasn't praising God the way I should be.
After many prayers on the subject I decided not to listen and to forget that kind of worship that leaves me thirsty because JESUS SAID I should never thirst.

John 4:13-14
Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

When all is said and done, regardless of how much we like one type of music, its the beat, its always the beat, you can mask it with lyrics that mention Jesus but it does not cover up the fact that the beat is the noise of war.

"Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light" Ephesians 5:6-8

Stephanos Brother, I am not attacking you here don't even think that, its is merely a testimony from myself on how music enslaved me, take the matter to prayer. If listening leaves an imprint of music in your mind that repeats over in your head because its "catchy" is that spirit good or bad?
Trance, beat driven music , enslaved me, and left me thirsty for more and depressed if i didn't listen to it. I put it behind me where he should be.

"Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" Titus 2:12

May my post be of help to anyone, even one.
In My Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ

Bob Dyan was one of my favorites growing up in the 70' yet I am not sure he is realy saved at best it is just a profession. by the way Bob Dylan is not even his real name his real name is Robert Allen Zimmerman. he is a Jew beleive it or not. he never gives glory to Jesus once that I ever heard of. and here is some highlights he has been maried twice the last divorce in 1992, he was controversal when he revealed his conversion from Judaism to Christianity in three albums. Introduced the Beatles to marijuana after his conversion. not much of a Christian testimony now is there.

Worshipis one thing and entertainment is another as I stated before. my post was more against the worship using worldly means and methods. even Stephenos used the words worship with miinus one Reggae or as he called it DUB reggae.

When our minds have been made perfect along with our bodies and we stand before God we will know how to worship him correctly. until then we need to keep it simple, pure and holy. living in a fear of God more than a looseness that has penitrated many Christian organizations.

Salvation and differnt Bible version. go back through and read the way the NIV and KJV present the gospels and you will see there is a difference.

there is a group here using the NIV English and it's Tagalog versions. the people have been taught a works based Salvation. they were brarfing devils into bags over the last few weeks. Their Regggae, Rock nad Jazz worship time went on for two hours before and 30 minutes after their 15 minutes preaching of the word.

so are these peopel really saved by the same Gospel. things that are different are not the same. Different Bibles version will promote different Gospels.

these people say they love Jesus but they are in disobedience to God word. and while being disobedient week in and week out (some for years) they continue to have great spiritual experiences with what they believe to be Jesus and the Holy Ghost caused by the most part these long loud(9db) musical worship services.

I would rather you fill your hours with Christian lyrics or entertainment than to the lyrics of the world. but leave it to entertainment which is hollywoods profession. when it comes to worship we need to understand we worship a Awsome powerful almighty God and a little respectful fear in holiness is something we should always show when in worship. and that worship needs to be focused on what Christ has done. Not on what i have done, or how I am feeling should be done, or what I am doing at the moment.

By the way I wanted to put together a CD compilation of 101 ways to sing Amazing grace. I have heard t sang many different ways. i have heard the traditional classical style, to Giligans Island theme song, to Raw Hide, to two or three rock renditions both soft and hard Rock, a reggae version, a jazz rendition, a black Gospel rendition.

I am sure someone will come up with a Tecno version and a Rhythym and Blues version and most likely Grunge rock and a Goth version will pop up to.

I am sure you can find it done in tribal music because some missionary used wha they had. I bet you could find it in Carabean and Calypsso style too.

But these are inventions of men, that please mens senses. it may not necesarily please God's Senses.

COOL:)

Here is a little more of Dylan's Gospel. You will notice like a good Roman Catholic he has Mary as a prophet along with the the gospel writers. and you see he has the Lord holding on to the plow. his music reveals his theology now doesn't it.

as a side note I also heard Amazing Grace to Dylans song "House of the rising Sun".

THE GOSPEL PLOW

Mary wore three links of chain
Every link was Jesus name
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on
Oh Lord, Oh Lord, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.

Mary, Mark, Luke and John
All these prophets so good and gone
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on
Oh Lord, Oh Lord, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.

Well, I never been to heaven
But I've been told streets up there
Are lined with gold
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on

Oh Lord, Oh Lord, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
Oh Lord, Oh Lord, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.
Oh Lord, Oh Lord, keep your hand on that plow, hold on.

songs like this one and "I believe in you" which were on his Gospel Tour albums 79-82. never speak of the Gospel nor have I ever heard him sing a Gospel Song. look at the lyrics to his songs and you will see no trace of man who has been transformed by the renwing of his mind by the word of God. or of a true Gospel song. so what Gospel are the ones you quoted saying he was the greatest Gospel singer of? when he never sang a real gospel song in his public life.

www.bobdylan.com/#/songs

Language is an invention of men, not to mention every single instrument of music on earth (unless perhaps we were given them by angels). I think one could say that every form of worship that has come forth from the hands and mouths of men is an invention of men. But do these facts make these things unpleasant before God? Is not our God the God that searches the heart? If my gospel reggae edifies me and brings me closer to God, then how possible can you judge this? I've said many times, the fruit reveals the root. I've heard of so called Christian Metal concerts where the kids get violent and do terrible things, thus one could say the fruit reveals a rotten root. However, when I sing unto my God to a reggae dub track and I have an intimate moment in the knowledge and joy of Jesus Christ, then one could say that the fruit in this case reveals a good root. I don't smoke ganja, nor do I promote or condone it. I don't practice paganism or sorcery of any kind (I do take ibuprofen all the time though), nor does the music I listen to make me want to do those things. My music cultivates a positive attitude about living in Christ, and an attitude where I want to share the light that I have in Christ Jesus with others. So anywho, I'm not trying to defend what I'm doing, just explaining to those that might be lurking and reading this, that they should put more trust in the Word of God, and not in the traditions of men.

I also agree that there should be a difference between our worship of God, and the music that we enjoy throughout the week (although we certainly can enjoy worship music throughout the week as well). The Mennonite I fellowship with are very much so against listening to anything but acapella worship music. I respect them in this, but what I respect most of all is that at least most of them agree that it doesn't have to be this way, but rather it just is this way with them, since they feel safe with these boundaries.

Oh and one last thing, the Scriptures talk of the two fold purpose of spiritual music.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Our worship is for us, and to glorify God. These two things in this case are directly related. As we learn of God and His ways through our psalms, hymns, and songs, we become closer to Him, and this in turn brings glory to Him by the lives we live in this knowledge and wisdom and the outpouring of righteous works we do as a result. I also believe that it simply pleases Him to hear us worship Him for the simply beauty that is found in His absolute righteousness, and His most undeserved mercy.

Anywho, that's all I got (lol).

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Colossians has noting to do with worship as it does with our ministry in your hearts to God and towards one another n teaching and admonishing. spiritual melody in your hearts is not something anyone else can hear.

I did not say you could not entertain yourselves. as I said I would rather you entertain yourselves with Christian Lyrics. but worship is something totally different.

worship is not for us. it is purely something that belongs to God only. when you make worship something that pleases you you have perverted it to self worship becuse you are the one receiving benefit so God get nothig from it. for he will share his glory with no one. When the Israelites worshipped God they were on the faces in their own tents while Moses went into the tabernacle. secondly, only an appointed groups were to sing and play instruments and at certain times. it was DAvid who changed it and modified it. and go back a few posts and you will see where I showed God was not happy with Israels worship because they were disobedient to God Word and comandments. Israel had a real respect and fear of God thatis missing today becuaseof spiriutal pride

now we can't take that and apply it leterally to us today because it would have to be verifies in the NT by the Apostle to the Gentiles, of which Pauls gives no instructins on worship. he does give us lots of instruction in righteousness. Collossians and Ephesian cross reference have nothing to do with worship to make it say so is wrestling the scriptures to your own hurt.

On there faces shows the kind of respect and fear that many do not have today. but what we have in our worship is what has been handed down. but only recently has it became mundain and boring to the newbees, so these ones who are in diobedience to the word are the ones who want to change worship to meet their fancy and feelings.

As I said sing all you want. but do you realy want to be using musical styles that were used in worshiping the enemy of the cross? and at the same time when others hear you and are stumbled or weakened by your liberty is that what you want? though you may not personally promote drug use and sexual immorality but the music you listen to does just that. eventhough your person lyrics do not. The beat goes on.

You judge yourself. we are merely admonishing you and others to beware on how you WORSHIP the Lord. as the Lord said don't do the things (including how they worshipped their gods)of the nations he saved you from reread the previous posts and get the application form Leviticus.

most of the people who promote all sorts of music as worship are generally rebelleous musicians who are already confromed to the world and they dont want to be transformed by the renewing of their minds by the word of God. I and others we are aware and deeply concerned about the trend to use these forms of music for worshipping God in a way that he never prescribes for us to do so. silent areas in scripture can be the most dangerous.

Ecclesiastes 7:5
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

In my Saviour's name, The LORD Jesus Christ.

Language is from God, not men. It's God who created Adam and communicated with him, and who changed mens tongues at Babel.

Book, chapter and verse?

Chette, I do agree with you in general with this reply. I do believe that the worship that takes place in the congregation of the Lord's body should be solely for the glory of God. I also agree in that it should be distinct from the music of the day (this still doesn't get around the fact that even the hymns we sing were modern at one point). I personally love keeping the worship in the Church acapella, without any choirs of any sort (since this trend seems to me more for the people listening than for God). If one looks into Church history, there is no doubt that this was how it was done in the early church.

Concerning my personal worship, I don't have any qualms glorifying God to a reggae beat; none what so ever. I would be worried if I knew I offended one of the brethren by my choices, but I haven't ever experienced this in any effect, and I've been listening to reggae for a while now. I am concerned when people don't realize that the music I listen to is Christian. I don't want to confuse people by what I listen to. So far I have a good gauge, my boss. He will not listen to anything with Christian lyrics and as it stands I never get to pick the music we listen to, lol.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

peopleoftheway, thanks for that man, you said exactly how R&B left me feeling before I was convicted and decided to put it down. I used to be a huge Earth Wind and Fire fan. Like you stated about how the beats and rhythms put you in a state similar to being high, and their music among others, do that very well. The bad line of music goes all the way to Exodus 32, its connected with idolatry (Dan 3:5).

No problem brother, I was just speaking my heart and experience.
When you look at satan being described as having tabrets and pipes in Ezekiel it speaks volumes, he will use music to enslave and he has enslaved generation after generation through rebellious music like rock, reggae, Hip Hop, trance dance etc, anything secular that has young people spending more time and money on an "artist" than they do in the things of God, is simply idolatry.
Notice also in another attempt to disguise the fact that satan is behind the influence of music is that fact that modern translations remove the description of him in Ezekiel as musical (I only just noticed this missing in the NIV translation when I typed in the verse to search in NIV and not KJV in Biblegateway)

Ezekiel 28:13 KJV
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created (tabrets and pipes, musical)

Ezekiel 28:13 NIV
You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [a] turquoise and beryl. [b]
Your settings and mountings [c] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

Seems like another coverup in modern translation of satans tools of influence.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God was the first to speak in Genesis.

Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

So God gave us a language.

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

So God gave us the rest of our languages.

And now men are trying their best to come back to one language (english).
--- and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do

We are returning to the days of Noah:

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Josh, this is for you, feel free to add more.

Renee

I think you should look up the word confound. Besides, the languages we now use are not the languages that were used then. Language is ever changing to suite the needs of the people that use it and the themes they constantly try to express in every day conversation etc.

I guess my point is is that we should make sure our own hands are clean before we start pointing the finger at other people and the music they listen to.

Hallelujah from the heavens
Hallelujah in the heights above the earth
Hallelujah all His angels
Hallelujah for the last will be first
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord..


Hallelujah in the morning
Hallelujah for the beauty of His scars
Hallelujah in the twilight
Hallelujah sun and moon and shining stars
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord..

When the night seems so long (throw your hands to the sky)
You can sing a new song (wipe the tears from your eyes)
When you're weak, He is strong
He can heal your wounded soul
And calm the storm inside

For all your times of laughter
In every hopeful prayer
When the world weighs on your shoulders
Through sorrow and your despair
With everything, with every breath, praise the Lord
Let everything, let every breath praise the Lord

When the night seems so long (throw your hands to the sky)
You can sing a new song (wipe the tears from your eyes)
When you're weak, He is strong
He can heal your wounded soul
And calm the storm inside

for the one worthy of our continual praises,
Stephen

I was suprised at what you noticed, peopleoftheway. That's, too, subtle of the Devil. I'm glad God led you into finding this discovery.

yeap Right on. Satan is the big worship leader. he isn't leading the holy Angels any more, but he has entered into the churches today who will let him.

It just goes to show that if you are looking with the right heart and attitude, then even through what you think is a mistake the Holy Spirit of God will lead you into another truth. And Praise the LORD all I want is truth even if it hurts.

God deserves the praise.
 

Music is always a very touchy subject due to the influences we have had our whole lives. Unfortunatly, even christian music has been corupted to the point it is all about how many records they can sell, and how simular they can sound to the worlds music. We are to be a seperate people. No matter what culture you were raised in God wants us to be different than the world in which we live. Many feel that certain instruments hsould be used or not used for worship. The problem is there is this movement growing that is simular to a McDonalds chain. This Protestant movement that puts the emophasis on reaching young people by using music to make them feel good qwith no attention to scripture. Even the music is driven to bring a reaction in us rather than bringing a reaction in God. God does not automatically show up at worship service because we sing to Him. The service is to be about scripture and the music should be used to edify the preaching.
I do not know of one church that can honestly say that they do not use music to influence people. Even old time hymes can be used to pursuade. How often we gat in church and sing uplifting songs and when the invitation arrives the music is slowed down and the songs beat and words are designed to bring a response in us. Is this bad? I think if our focus is on God. the scripture clearly presented will allow the Holy Spirit to work, the prayers of the saved shoould be asking the Holy Spirit to work in lives, and the music should edify the Lord.
This line in the sand as to what is right or wrong to listen to in our own time is a different issue. Personally I still deal with this. Even with "christian" music. I went to a third day concert and I find a couple of their songs really good. I left with a feeling that i was duped intl liking them. I also appreciate the work done by U2. Third day was nothing more than a copy-cat band of U2. Just putting different words in to the song. They even ended the concert by laying a few of U2's songs. They did a decent job, but This was nothing more than a U2 wanna-be band moving into the christian circle trying to make a few bucks. They do because these po-up churches sing their music with the congregation for worship every sunday. I find it offensive to take something polutted by the world and bring it into church and try using it to worship God. Many dont see the next step in this is usaully the church will then replace the old Bible with a new one to make others more comfortable.

You raise a good point about music being used to draw young people into Church, ecumenical compromise, bring the world into Church using the worlds music and hope that the world follows, where does that line be drawn? Serving beer in the Church canteen to bring in the drinkers? Giant TV's with the latest sports game on to draw in the sport idolators?
The ecumenical Church I was attending was very much focused on "Christian Rock" (Rock is the Devils Music and always will be) drumbeats, electric baselines and guitars, people would be swaying and legs would be twitching and some would even be bobbing up and down on the spot to the beat. I didn't like this, I felt that the music was affecting people "Physically" they were "feeling" it, more time was spent in so called worship than preaching the real deal, The WORD of God. Sure the lyrics are all about Jesus, but if you look very closely at the lyrics of new "contemporary" hymns most are about what "I" feel I can do for Jesus, How "I" feel about Jesus. When worship becomes based on feelings that is dangerous ground.
Read this extract about the "neutrality" of Music

An intensive series of studies carried out by Dorothy Retallack of Denver, Colorado, demonstrated the effects of different kinds of music on a variety of household plants. The experiments were controlled under strict scientific conditions, and the plants were kept within large closed cabinets on wheels in which light, temperature and air were automatically regulated. Three hours a day of acid rock, played through a loudspeaker at the side of the cabinet, was found to stunt and damage squash plants, philodendrons and corn in under four weeks. Mrs Retallack played the music of the two different Denver radio stations to two groups of petunias. The radio stations were KIMN (a rock station) and KLIR (a semiclassical station). The Denver Post reported:

`The petunias listening to KIMN refused to bloom. Those on KLIR developed six beautiful blooms. By the end of the second week, the KIMN petunias were LEANING AWAY from the radio and showing very erratic growth. The petunia blooms hearing KLIR were all leaning TOWARD THE SOUND. Within a month all plants exposed to rock music DIED.

In another experiment, conducted over three weeks, Dorothy Retallack played the music of Led Zeppelin and Vanilla Fudge to one group of beans, squash (marrow), corn, morning glory and coleus; she also played contemporary avant-garde atonal music to a second group; and, as a control, played nothing to a third group. Within ten days, the plants exposed to Led Zeppelin and Vanilla Fudge were all LEANING AWAY FROM THE SPEAKER. After three weeks they were stunted and DYING. The beans exposed to the 'new music' leaned 15 degrees from the speaker and were found to have middle-sized roots. The plants left in silence had the longest roots and grew the highest. Further, it was discovered that plants to which placid, devotional music was played not only grew two inches taller than plants left in silence, but also leaned TOWARDS THE SPEAKER. (Tame, David The Secret Power of Music, p. 142 - 144)

My advice, from my heart, is simply this,
If you have lyrics of a song in your head more of the day than you have the Word of God in your head take heed!

Christian Music is sung to the LORD, it does not belong in the world, nor should it sound like the world.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16

Church of Chirst churches do not believe in musical instruments in worship. There have been some splits and now some off-shoot do. What I heard growing up was that the Christians sang acapella (sp) and we should to. I have to admit, when I was young, the most beautiful (and close to God) moments in worship was when the congregation was singing their souls out to an old time hymn. My favorite is still "There is a God". Gives my goose bumps.

The reason they disliked pianos was becasue they were in bars and saloons in the US for so long and were identified with that segment.

The Church of Christ also believes a whole mess of rediculous things.

From: http://www.biblebelievers.com/david_...ch-christ.html
The religious sect known as the "Church of Christ" has many peculiar and aberrant doctrines that are contrary to the word of God. It is a most deceptive and dangerous cult. Their teaching of baptismal regeneration is an age-old heresy that has damned millions to hell, and is still doing so today. The idea that they are the one, true and restored church of Jesus Christ puts them in the same league with the Mormon and Roman Catholic churches.

If you are a member of this "church" or have been influenced by its teachings, we challenge you to ask your preacher the questions that follow, then get your King James Bible out, open it up, and ask the Holy Spirit to show you the TRUTH (John 16:13). If you have never been saved in the Bible sense, for heaven's sake, do not mistake being "washed in the baptistry of the church" for being washed in the blood of Christ.

If you ask one of these "preachers" any of the questions in this tract, you won't get a straight answer due to their "screwball" theology. You'll have them in "hot water," "swimming in circles," trying to explain their heretical positions. They'll be "hopping all over the pond" because they can't stay too long in one spot without sinking in the mire of their false doctrines.

Don't YOU wind up being baptized in the "Lake of Fire" by accepting a "waterworks" based plan of salvation and rejecting salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ. (Matt. 3:11; Rev. 20:15; Eph. 2:8,9; Rom. 5:9; Rom. 11:6).
Here are Questions for Campbellites

1. According to the history of the "Church of Christ," God used certain men to "restore" the New Testament Church in the early 1800's. Where was the true New Testament church before then? Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church (Matthew 16:18). What happened to the church and where was the truth it was responsible for preaching before God restored it?

2. If a "Church of Christ" elder refuses to baptize me, will I be lost until I can find one who will? Do I need Jesus AND a Campebllite "preacher" in order to be saved? If I do, then Jesus Christ is not the only Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5) and the Holy Spirit is not the only Administrator (1 Cor. 12:13) of salvation - the "Church of Christ" preacher is necessary to salvation for he is performing a saving act on me when he baptizes me! Is this not blasphemy against Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost?

3. If the water pipes broke and the baptistry was bone dry, would my salvation have to wait until the plumber showed up? If I were to die before then, would I go to hell? If obedience to water baptism is the means of forgiveness of sins, then I would.

4. If my past sins are forgiven when I am baptized in water, and it is possible for me to "lose my salvation" and go to hell after being baptized, then wouldn't my best chance of going to heaven be to drown in the baptistry?!! - before I had a chance to sin so as to be lost again? If I wanted to be absolutely sure of heaven, isn't that my best opportunity?

5. If as a Christian I can sin so as to "lose my salvation," just what sin or sins will place me in such danger? Is it possible to know at what point one has committed such a sin, and become lost again? Please be specific and give clear Bible references.

6. If as a Christian I can fall and "lose my salvation," is it possible to regain it? If so, how? If God "takes away" my salvation, doesn't that make Him an "Indian giver"? How could I ever know for sure that I was saved or lost?

7. After becoming a Christian, are there any sins that will put me beyond the "point of no return" so that I cannot regain salvation? What sin or sins will put me in such jeopardy, so that, after becoming a Christian, I would be doomed to hell without any recourse? Please be specific and give me clear Bible references.

8. If I committed some sin -whether in thought, word, or deed, one minute before a fatal car crash - would I go to hell if I did not have time to repent of it? And, please, don't just say that it's up to God without giving me a specific Bible reference.

9. Why does the "Church of Christ" insist that their name is scriptural when it cannot be found anywhere in the Bible? The church is referred to as the "church of God" eight (8) times in the Bible, but never is it called the "church of Christ." The verse they use is Romans 16:16, but it doesn't say "church of Christ." Where does the Bible call the church the "church of Christ"?

10. If the "Church of Christ" claims to worship God only as "authorized" by scripture because they sing only (and do not use instrumental music), then where do they get the "authority" to use hymnals, pitchpipes, pews, and indoor baptistries in their worship services? If the answer is that they are "aids to worship," where does the Bible allow for that? Where is your required authorization? If a pitchpipe can be an "aid to worship" for the song service in the "Church of Christ," then why can't a piano be an "aid to worship" for Baptists who may need more help in singing?

11. The "Church of Christ" teaches that a sinner is forgiven of sin when he is baptized in water by a Campbellite elder. Where does the Bible teach that water baptism is required in order to have one's sins forgiven? Every time the phrase "for the remission of sins" occurs it is speaking of the fact that sins have been forgiven previously! The Bible plainly teaches that the forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon repentance of sin and faith in Christ - never upon water baptism! (Matthew 3:11; Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; Acts 5:31; Acts 10:43; Acts 20:21; Romans 1:16; Romans 4:5; et.al.) Where does the Bible teach that forgiveness of sin is linked with water baptism? When Christ made the statement in Matthew 26:28, "for the remission of sins," it had to be because they had been forgiven all through the Old Testament! Christ shed His blood because God forgave repentant and believing sinners for thousands of years before the Son of God came to "take away" sins and to redeem us and pay the sin-debt with His own precious blood. How can one say that "for the remission of sins" means 'in order to obtain' in light of the fact that God never uses the phrase in that sense? In the Old Testament God forgave sin on the basis of a blood sacrifice (Heb. 9:22) - the Old Testament saints had their sins remitted (i.e., forgiven) but they were not redeemed until Christ came and shed His blood at Calvary. Their sins were covered (Romans 4:7; Psalm 32:1), but the sinner was not cleared of his guilt (Exodus 34:7) until the Cross (Heb.10:4). Before Calvary, the sins of believers were pardoned, but they were not paid for (i.e., redeemed) until the crucifixion (see Romans 3:25 and Heb. 9:12-15). When Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30), all sin - past, present and future - was paid for, and the plan of salvation was completed, so that 'whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins' (Acts 10:43). In Acts 2:38, the people were baptized because their sins were forgiven (at Calvary when Jesus said, "Father, forgive them,") and they received the blessing of forgiveness when they repented of their sin of rejecting Christ and accepted Him as their Saviour and Lord. Friend, heaven or hell depends on what you believe about this.

12. If salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done, and baptism is a work of "righteousness," then how can water baptism be a part of salvation? (Titus 3:5; Matt. 3:16) In the Bible, we are SAVED BY GRACE, and grace does not involve human effort or merit - grace is grace and work is work! (Just read Ephesians 2:8,9 and Romans 11:6.)

13. The "Church of Christ" teaches that "obeying the Gospel" includes being baptized in water in order to be saved. If this is true, then how is it that the converts of Acts 10 were saved by faith before and without water baptism? The Bible says in Acts 5:32 that only those who obey God may receive the Holy Ghost - so what did those in Acts 10 do to obey and receive the Holy Ghost and be saved? In the light of Acts 10:34-48, Acts 11:14-18, and Acts 15:7-11, how can anyone honestly believe that water baptism is necessary to salvation? Simon Peter said their hearts were "purified by faith" (Acts 15:9) and that we are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ like they were (Acts 15:11); that is, before and without water baptism! We know that unsaved people do not receive or have the Holy Spirit (John 14:17; Romans 8:9). We know that the Holy Spirit is given only to those who have believed on Christ (John 7:39). We know that the Holy Spirit seals the believing sinner the moment he puts his faith and trust in Christ as Savior, before he is ever baptized in water (Ephesians 1:12,13). How does the warped theolgy of Campbellism explain away these clear passages of Scripture without "muddying the waters" of truth and drowning its members in eternal damnation?


Other good links:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/Davis1.html
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Church%20of%20Christ/church_of_christ_heresies.htm"
http://www.av1611.org/jmelton/chchurch.html

There are lots of sites that discuss their heresies. The problem is is that some of them also attack them for standing firmly for the KJV. Just ignore those ones.

for Jesus sake,
Stephen