AV1611 Bible Forum Archive

AV1611 Bible Forum Archive (https://av1611.com/forums/index.php)
-   Bible Studies (https://av1611.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Is Bible College/Institute necessary? (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=482)

swordsman 09-16-2008 05:00 PM

Is Bible College/Institute necessary?
 
Ok here it goes...

Before I learned to Rightly Divide my Bible I was checking out several different Bible institutes and colleges so that I could gain a better understanding of my Bible.

After I did learn to rightly divide my King James Bible I come to realize that (IMHO)all formal Bible education does is teach you how to take a non-rightly divided Bible and make it fit the doctrine that the "brethren" believe.

I have heard people from many different denominations profess to get the doctrines they believe from the Bible and only the Bible. They will even show you where and yes it is all scripture (wrongly divided, but scripture).

I eventually came to realize ...Why would God give us a Bible that one needs a formal education to understand?

peopleoftheway 09-16-2008 06:03 PM

Is Bible College/Institute necessary?

Absolutely not!

Many blessed preachers have never graced the doors of a bible college or anything like it, to preach is a calling from God, some men have the gift some don't and its not like a certificate can earn that right. I know there are some KJB only colleges and that is commendable, but anything else I believe will only lead to the straying away from God's Word and adoption of alexandrian versions and philosophy. My previous Church had a decent preacher, he could reach out, but he wouldn't embrace any bible as the inerrant Word of God and he said that this was because of what he was taught in bible college.:confused:

ericwgreene 09-17-2008 12:32 PM

Throughout the scriptures the usefulness of teachers and the requirement of ministers to be able to teach is made plain. Therefore, it would be safe to assume that ministers are to teach somebody nor merely teach empty seats. If God saw no benefit in the saints learning from gifted teachers why spend so much time on the topic of teaching in the scriptures? Secondly, consider Proverbs 11:14:

Where no counsel [is], the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors [there is] safety.

Are not the written works of those whom the Holy Spirit has guided in past beneficial to us today? Is there not safety in Biblical interpretation when we compare our interpretations with those who have come before us?

Unfortunately, all of us have proceeded with the same ignorance that we will read the scriptures as God intended without preconceived assumptions. Therefore we errantly conclude that all those who came before us must have had an agenda. We make these judgments assuming that we are a capable final judge on the motives of those who studied before us. Granted there are right and wrong interpretations, but we must be careful that we do not hold ourselves above others in such a prideful and arrogant manner.

swordsman 09-17-2008 03:30 PM

Is Bible College/Institute necessary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericwgreene (Post 7803)
Throughout the scriptures the usefulness of teachers and the requirement of ministers to be able to teach is made plain. Therefore, it would be safe to assume that ministers are to teach somebody nor merely teach empty seats. If God saw no benefit in the saints learning from gifted teachers why spend so much time on the topic of teaching in the scriptures? Secondly, consider Proverbs 11:14:

Where no counsel [is], the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors [there is] safety.


Some do have the ability to teach better than others, but college to teach a babe in Christ?...No....and a person that is saved and rightly divides their Bible has little need to be taught only the need to study, teach others(babes) and show others the way of salvation

Are not the written works of those whom the Holy Spirit has guided in past beneficial to us today? Is there not safety in Biblical interpretation when we compare our interpretations with those who have come before us?When you have a Bible..why do I need to read how someone else interpreted Gods Word, I have two eyes I will read it myself. If you rightly divide the scripture there is only one interpretation.

Unfortunately, all of us have proceeded with the same ignorance that we will read the scriptures as God intended without preconceived assumptions. Therefore we errantly conclude that all those who came before us must have had an agenda. Or did not rightly divide the scriptures We make these judgments assuming that we are a capable final judge on the motives of those who studied before us.Don't know their motives and frankly don't care, if you wrongly divide scripture you are wrong. Granted there are right and wrong interpretations, but we must be careful that we do not hold ourselves above others in such a prideful and arrogant manner.

Not ourselves..God's Word:)

ericwgreene 09-18-2008 04:57 PM

You wrote "if you wrongly divide scripture you are wrong"

By what standard do you determine if a person has wrongly divided the scripture?

ericwgreene 09-18-2008 05:40 PM

You wrote: "wrongly divide scripture you are wrong"

By what standard do you judge this?

swordsman 09-18-2008 07:19 PM

Applying Old Testament and/or tribulational doctrine to the church today. Any more detail will take a lot more room than I am prepared to do in this forum. Although I will do it over the phone.

ericwgreene 09-19-2008 05:25 AM

Do you at least understand the point of my question? Christians can have an honest debate about the hermaneutic applied to Scripture. I don't say that from the position of everyone is right because clearly some hermaneutics are valid and some invalid. Some are right and some are wrong. One of the goals of a Bible College is to help people understand hermaneutics so that they can understand the Scriptures correctly.

swordsman 09-19-2008 12:31 PM

Bible colleges teach a student to divide the scriptures to align with the schools doctrinal standpoint not necessarily with the truth. When you have so many different schools teaching different interpretations of what God seems to be having such a "hard time saying clearly",you cause correct interpretation to be a matter of viewpoint rather than thus saith the Lord.

As far as honest debate I have seen little in the last twelve years that actually changed someones mind. If a person is backed into a corner they have a wealth of different text or various tenses and meanings of the "original autographs" to justify their viewpoint.

I do see what you are saying.

wwjd.usa 09-19-2008 09:49 PM

I have many friends from different denominations. One of my friends is from a charismatic denomination. He invited me to come to his church, in order to attend a college level Bible study. So I went, and this is what was taught at a COLLEGE LEVEL Bible study:

Revelation 3:15-16
"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot."
"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

The preacher explained this verse and said, "To be cold, means to worship God by standing still and singing quietly. To be hot means to worship God by dancing extremely. Lukewarm mean to worship God by dancing a little bit."

Then the preacher said something to this extent, "Therefore, when we have a worship service, we need to be hot, and dance as much as possible."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was surprised how brainwashed people were in that class.
Can you believe that people are actually receiving college credit by learning the above material?

swordsman 09-19-2008 11:04 PM

I have heard just about the same thing in Independent BibleBelieving Baptist Churches.

Nothing suprises me anymore...nothing.

peopleoftheway 09-20-2008 03:22 PM

those charismatics always bring it back to "feelings" and "emotions" don't they.
This is my point over why bible colleges are not necessary, philosophy and this kind of garbage about Cold and hot dancing is testament to that.
GOD ALMIGHTY raises up preachers / evangelists / teachers, not an institution a fine example are those brothers that are pastoring in the farest reaches of Gods Great Earth, that never attended a college or never received a doctorate and are teaching many souls about the Gospel of The LORD Jesus Christ under GODS GRACE.

Steve Schwenke 09-21-2008 08:05 PM

I agree that when a man is called of God to be a preacher that Bible School (whether it be college or institute) is not necessarily part of God's plan for that individual.
This does not necessarily negate the school either.
Many "lay people" (for lack of better term) benefit greatly by Bible Institutes since they can learn more information at a faster rate than by only attending the 4 services a local church can offer (SS, Am, PM, Wed.) This is the whole reason many churches start Bible Institutes - to further obey the command of Scripture to teach.

Many people go to Bible college to further increase their knowledge of Scripture (which is a Scriptural command), and in the process are called to preach.

So, Bible Schools are not absolutely necessary for preparing a preacher, but are in most cases used by the Lord to prepare them. The preparation is much more than academic study. This preparation also includes: leaving home, living by faith (having to pay that school bill and support a family on low wages), serving in a local church (most Bible colleges requires some sort of service), etc. The Bible School experience is an education in and of itself.

That being said, I also believe that the day is coming in America when the local bible-believing churches will be forced underground, and then days of big Bible Colleges will be gone. The ideas we see today are truly an American luxury not seen on such a large scale at any other period of Church History. It truly is the job of the Local Church to train young men for the ministry.

In Christ,

peopleoftheway 09-22-2008 10:09 AM

Steve I agree that Bible colleges are of course used to prepare those that God will send forth to preach the Gospel, however what I have not made clear is that I have no faith in Bible Colleges that teach through modern versions, it leads a man to leave that college defeated about the Bible, not holding any one Bible as the innerant Word of God but that they are all merely "translations". Thats the problem I see with many colleges and I see today across the World in many many Churches, where pastors profess to Love the LORD but yet refuse to hold on to his Holy Written Word as innerant.
However I am well aware that in the states more than the uk there are a lot of KJB only colleges and that is what is needed, speak the same thing, no division.

atlas 09-22-2008 10:21 PM

People and Swordsman.

I agree with both of you over all, however Bible college can be a wonderful thing, if it's a good Bible college. I agree that you do not have to attend Bible College to preach or to be a pastor. I think it's well worth it if you have the ability to addend and can afford to attend good Bible College or Bible Institute.

I know that Luke ( he is a regular member on this site ) and I both attend a good Bible Institute.

The Bible Doctrine Institute


http://www.tbdi.org/


All they teach is the Bible and nothing else. They use KJV only and TBDI is based out of a local church. You may want to check them out. It only cost $250.00 semester and the $50.00 is the registration free. After the 1st semester's only $200.00 per semester. I know they'll take students from other nations other than the USA. Luke is from down under and they let him in.

If you want to attend a good little Bible Institute, I can't think of a better on TBDI. Check out the web site and see what you think, maybe TBDI would be go you. I know TBDI has helped me learn more about God's Word. Maybe Luke will post his thoughts on the The Bible Doctrine Institute also.

Atlas

peopleoftheway 09-23-2008 03:46 AM

If its KJB only then that's good enough for me! Its the colleges that have philosophy crept in that get to me.

swordsman 09-30-2008 08:41 PM

Its not the philosophy that concerns me with colleges and institutes. It is how they divide the scriptures. There is no way possible it takes years to understand and be able to teach the Bible, if it is rightly divided.
Most teach how to take misapplied scripture and make it fit what they believe.

George 10-02-2008 12:58 AM

Re: "Is Bible College/Institute necessary?"
 
Aloha all,

In answer to Swordsman's question - "Is Bible College/Institute necessary?"

SCHOOLS & “SCHOOLING”
{What Schools CAN & CANNOT Do}

Schools and “schooling” do not allow for an independent examination of “Information” or “Facts”, and they preclude an Independent Inquiry of them (information & facts) because schools control and direct the WHERE, WHEN, HOW and WHY of learning (“education”).

Practically all of the materials (courses) taught in schools are “pre-cooked” and “canned”, and as such are subject to the personal biases and prejudices of teachers (grade school, high school, university professors, etc.) and text book authors. Because of the load factor (of the courses) and time constraints, students very seldom have the opportunity to search out (for themselves) whether what is being taught them is “true” or “genuine”.

For the most part - schools, in today’s world, are a “means to an end” – that is a “means” to obtaining a “Career” (which is just a “job” – a means to earning a living). :(

SCHOOLS ARE BEST SUITED to prepare people to be TEACHERS.
(That is to be just like those people who “teach” - teachers, professors, etc.)

Although natural TALENT and PRACTICE is what really produces “goodTeachers.

SCHOOLS ARE
GOOD in preparing people for a PROFESSION.
(Doctors, Engineers, Scientists, Lawyers, etc.)


Although natural TALENT and PRACTICE is what really produces “Professionals”.


SCHOOLS ARE
FAIR in preparing people for a TRADE.
(Carpenters, Plumbers, Electricians, Mechanics, etc.)


Although natural TALENT and PRACTICE is what really produces “Craftsmen”.


SCHOOLS ARE
POOR (ill-suited) in preparing people for an ordinary JOB, or to LABOR, or to SERVE.
(Because most teachers, & professors, think and believe that it is below their “station” to “WORK”; or to “LABOR”; or to “SERVE” in order to earn a living.)


SCHOOLS DO NOT {& CANNOT} prepare people for life or for living.

(Schools are ill-suited to teach about practical living – simply because Schools are ARTIFICIAL, SUPERFICIAL, and NOTHING LIKE REAL LIFE!)


Schools are full of SOPHISTS. A SOPHIST thinks that he/she is CLEVER & SMART, when all he/she has is a CROOKED HEART!


SCHOOLS & THE “MINISTRY”
{What “Christian”Schools CAN & CANNOT Do}

“CHRISTIAN”SCHOOLS (Bible, College, Seminaries, etc.) are ill-suited to TRAIN or prepare men for the “MINISTRY”.
{Because the Bible (“Theological” :confused:) Courses are pre-cooked and canned {according to Sect or Denomination} and most of the teachers, professors, etc., of Bible Schools, Colleges, and Seminaries employ the “Socratic” method of teaching which is the same worldly and Humanistic method used in the secular world to prepare people for an OCCUPATION or PROFESSION, which the MINISTRY IS NOT nor was ever meant to be.}

People who work in a Profession (teachers, doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.) do so to earn a living; or possibly for self-gratification; or for Fame & Fortune.

The Ministry is NOT a PROFESSION (or a TRADE), and was never meant to be. The MINISTRY is a CALLING (from God) to SERVE God (1st.) and to MINISTER to God’s people (2nd.).

An elder or pastor is NOT CALLED to the ministry to earn a living; or for fame and fortune; or for self- aggrandizement. An elder or pastor is called to SERVE God and to MINISTER to God’s people. The MINISTRY is supposed to be a “Labor of Love” - NEVER for “filthy lucre” or self-aggrandizement!

Earning a living has NOTHING TO DO with God’s CALLING! An elder or pastor is called to be a SERVANT of the living God, he cannot serve man or for money; he cannot serve two “masters”; he must serve his MASTER according to the Scriptures – regardless of the cost and without thought of remuneration.

Church history has demonstrated (over and over again) that nearly all of the apostasy that has taken place within Protestant (all), Baptist (all kinds), Brethren (various), and Independent Bible churches (all kinds), has started in the "Educational Institutions" (SCHOOLS).

I don't question the motives or the good intentions of those Christians who have founded "Christian" Schools, but it just seems impossible for "scribes" (scholars and the educational "elite") to remain faithful to God or to God's Holy Scriptures. And I believe it has something to do with:
Quote:

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
Read about Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Check out Bob Jones University, Dallas Theological Seminary, or the numerous Baptist Bible Schools or Universities (G.A.R.B., Northern, Southern, Independent, etc.), ETC., ETC., ETC.

I believe that the church is meant to be the only place where elders or pastors are to be taught and trained for the Ministry.

[1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.]

Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Website © AV1611.Com.
Posts represent only the opinions of users of this forum and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the webmaster.

Software for Believing Bible Study