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-   -   Lordship Salvation & Matthew 7 (https://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169)

jerry 04-06-2008 02:15 PM

If you have not received Jesus Christ, then you are not a child of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Diligent 04-06-2008 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beloved57 (Post 3108)
jerry impressed God by accepting jesus christ..way to go jerry, you are a wise man, you knew the right thing to do, way to go man..I am impressed with your discretion and I know God has to be impressed, way to go man..rah rah..

I was hoping the one week "time out" would help you reconsider your attitude here. Your above quote is just silly mocking. Since the Bible says we must receive Christ, it's not "boasting" or counting on our own righteousness to... receive Christ!

pbiwolski 04-07-2008 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry (Post 3096)
There is nothing in the Sermon on the Mount that does not directly apply to this church age...

Oh dear, here we go again.

Jerry, have you ever looked on a woman and lusted after her in your heart? I have, but do you know why I haven't pluck out my eyes that offend me? Because Christ's teaching does not apply to this age.

If my wife were raped or my children molested (forgive the illustration) should I as their husband/father teach them to "turn the other cheek." I won't do it, because that teaching is not for this age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerry (Post 3096)
Such as "Thy Kingdom come." Doesn't make sense to pray for something to come after it is already here!!

That's a poor example to state your case.

jerry 04-07-2008 09:43 AM

No, it's a pretty good example. It just doesn't fit your hyper-dispensationalism.

Turn the other check is not law - an eye for an eye was law.

As far as these verses go:

Matthew 5:29-30 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus is showing the seriousness of sin - it is better to be on earth and saved, without an eye or a hand, than to be whole and in hell. This is repeated in several other places in the Gospels. Instead of explaining these passages away, find out what they mean and apply them.

It must be sad to thrown out so many rich passages that would otherwise be a blessing to you.

pbiwolski 04-07-2008 11:12 AM

HYPER!! Wow, what an accusation! You're really coming at me with the big guns now, huh?

Who said anything about law??? Christ is telling his people, that were promised a kingdom, about this kingdom - the kingdom that they were offered, and rejected.

Luke 04-07-2008 06:10 PM

O Dear, how did this become a debate about dispensations?

Matthew 7 is written FOR us, but not TO us. No, it does not apply doctrinally, but it can teach some spiritual truths.

Any back to Lordship Salvation;

It all comes down to whether God wants men to prove to Him that they are good enough for Heaven (lordship), or whether Jesus Christ died for sinners, and wants to make it as easy as possible for them to come home (free grace).

I would be interested to hear what Doctor Ruckman teaches in regards to this. I can't seem to find his stance on Lordship Salvation anywhere.

JerryW 04-07-2008 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 3177)
O Dear, how did this become a debate about dispensations?

Matthew 7 is written FOR us, but not TO us. No, it does not apply doctrinally, but it can teach some spiritual truths.

Any back to Lordship Salvation;

It all comes down to whether God wants men to prove to Him that they are good enough for Heaven (lordship), or whether Jesus Christ died for sinners, and wants to make it as easy as possible for them to come home (free grace).

I would be interested to hear what Doctor Ruckman teaches in regards to this. I can't seem to find his stance on Lordship Salvation anywhere.

What does it matter what Dr. Ruckman teaches? Its what God's word teaches is what matters. If you think the Sermon on the Mount"s teachings are not for us you have been deceived. Your right they sound hard so we want to cast them out. God is not mocked. Jesus says in John 14;23 "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching." 1 John 2:4 says The man who says I know him, but does not do what he commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. Furthermore, 1 John 5:3 Says "my commands are not burdensome." To love Christ is to obey his commands is to make our "calling and election sure" 2 Peter 1:10.

Luke 04-08-2008 03:30 AM

Unfortunately, I expected that reply...

I did say "I would be interested" in finding out his stance, not "I am desperate to know because I follow every idle word of his".

God's word teaches Free Grace. I don't need to, and CANNOT, prove to God that my faith is real, by my works. Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of my faith. Any good works I do are his.

There is nothing hard about the teachings in the sermon on the mount. In fact, I didn't even imply we chuck them out. I claimed that they destroyed Lordship Salvation as a doctrine.

Friend, you need to stop shouting from your high horse. Too many fundamentalists do this. "You are decieved!" "You have been tricked by the devil!". Did you ever think that if I had been decieved, I may listen to someone who actually sounded like they cared about my soul, rather than someone who just wanted to be right....

Jeff 04-08-2008 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke (Post 3198)
Friend, you need to stop shouting from your high horse. Too many fundamentalists do this. "You are decieved!" "You have been tricked by the devil!". Did you ever think that if I had been decieved, I may listen to someone who actually sounded like they cared about my soul, rather than someone who just wanted to be right....

JerryW, I noticed that this is in response to your first post. We're a welcoming bunch here. Welcome to the forum :D.

chette777 04-10-2008 11:40 PM

Jerry, it is true that the KJV be our final authroity. at the same time there is nothing wrong with wanting to know what other men feel on any given subject. those filled witht he Spirit can be taught by Him through another man. as you and I have by our pastors and authors of books.

you may not agree with what Ruckman believes, but at the same time you want other to beleive what you say or take your opinion of what the KJV says. if we want to know what others beleive there is nothing wrong with that. not all you have shared in the many forums you have posted in on this site (a lot) I would say is what the KJV says. it is sometimes your interpretation. sometime correct sometime not. but we appreciate to hear what you have to say and think about any given subject found in the KJV.


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